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Permadeath in Star Citizen! Yup, this game will be hardcore!

FromHellFromHell Member Posts: 1,311

check this out:

best death system in a game ever

http://robertsspaceindustries.com/death-of-a-spacema/

 

Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !
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Comments

  • eric_w66eric_w66 Member UncommonPosts: 1,006

    While I agree that this is a decent (on paper) death system for a space sim, it certainly is light years away from permadeath and/or hardcore.

    Basically, you'll lose "xp" when you run out of "lives" on a character, where XP in this case is your faction ratings, etc. That's not very harsh.

  • Ohura75Ohura75 Member UncommonPosts: 8

    I just became a 65.00 pledger, which gives access to all alpha and beta's.  Does anyone know when those might be?  Was poking around on the game site and didn't see anything about beta or alpha testing and/or a date.  

     

    Thanks

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823

    Ummmm R.i.f :

     

    The flip side is that while perma-death is realistic, it is not a lot of fun if the first time you’re on the wrong side of a dogfight you lose everything and have to start again.

    I want Star Citizen to be immersive AND fun.

    The death mechanics that I have in mind keep a feeling of mortality and history without making it frustrating or killing (pun intended) the fun.

     

    It'll be a compromise system , while I applaud it and look forward to this game , it's not true perma-death. Strikes me as an insurance/restoration system with a history wipe and some other loss of titles , minor items etc.. Will this game have a store ? or it a hybrid subscriber/store system or p2p ?

    image
  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821

    The way they've explained it the death system will be no harsher than EVE Online. The main difference is you'll have a decendant instead of a clone. The main penalty will hit your wallet just like in EVE. The penalty will be even harsher if you go out in an uninsured ship. It's not permadeath by a longshot but it is a lot harsher than your typical MMO death penalty for sure.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • desdecardodesdecardo Member UncommonPosts: 6

    Wish I had known about this.  Now I feel like my pledge has gone to a game that will flail just above failure like Eve.  Money wasted.  Perma Death = Failure in MMOs and RPGs.  It wont succed once people know about this.  All it takes is one epic failure and the game gets a fail amongst the mass of gammers out there.  So long Star Citizen and thanks for all the fish, before the fish have even been handed out.

     

    Its not a successful format for MMOs and gets changed the moment developers realize that any form of perma death = game failure.  Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  Otherwise it will fail and people will be upset that they wasted money on funding a developer that doesnt know MMOs or RPGs or Space games period.

  • ChramChram Member Posts: 91
    Originally posted by desdecardo

    Wish I had known about this.  Now I feel like my pledge has gone to a game that will flail just above failure like Eve.  Money wasted.  Perma Death = Failure in MMOs and RPGs.  It wont succed once people know about this.  All it takes is one epic failure and the game gets a fail amongst the mass of gammers out there.  So long Star Citizen and thanks for all the fish, before the fish have even been handed out.

     

    Its not a successful format for MMOs and gets changed the moment developers realize that any form of perma death = game failure.  Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  Otherwise it will fail and people will be upset that they wasted money on funding a developer that doesnt know MMOs or RPGs or Space games period.

    I would be interested of your definition of "failure like Eve" and "not taking off". Eve currently has in the realm of 400k paying subscribers and is still growing each year, 10 years in a row now. Care to point any other game that managed to fail similary?

    Also, PvP without consequences is pointless. Many people are addicted to PvP in Eve because it gives them chills and shaky hands - an adrenaline rush. For that to happen you have to feel like you are putting something on the line.

  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Member UncommonPosts: 388
    Originally posted by desdecardo

    ...failure like Eve.  Money wasted...Its why Eve never took off....

    Hmmm, EVE currently has over 450K subscribers, and it's population has been booming over the past couple months. Quite the failure? I think not, especially because it's been around for 10 years in an industry that chews up lesser games.

    And when you're talking death systems, EVE's is actually quite good. Even Chris Roberts said as much. For me, the only "harsh" mechanic to EVE's system is the loss of your ship, although if your ship is destroyed it makes sense that you would lose it. And getting podded is hardly a "harsh" penalty.

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • FromHellFromHell Member Posts: 1,311
    Originally posted by desdecardo

     Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

    Thanks for the laugh.

    And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied Member UncommonPosts: 2,189
    Originally posted by desdecardo

    Wish I had known about this.  Now I feel like my pledge has gone to a game that will flail just above failure like Eve.  Money wasted.  Perma Death = Failure in MMOs and RPGs.  It wont succed once people know about this.  All it takes is one epic failure and the game gets a fail amongst the mass of gammers out there.  So long Star Citizen and thanks for all the fish, before the fish have even been handed out.

     

    Its not a successful format for MMOs and gets changed the moment developers realize that any form of perma death = game failure.  Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  Otherwise it will fail and people will be upset that they wasted money on funding a developer that doesnt know MMOs or RPGs or Space games period.

    Obvious troll.

    But wow this was playing in the back of my mind while reading that. I think i'll watch the movie again.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO04VXBIS0M

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Originally posted by desdecardo

    Wish I had known about this.  Now I feel like my pledge has gone to a game that will flail just above failure like Eve.  Money wasted.  Perma Death = Failure in MMOs and RPGs.  It wont succed once people know about this.  All it takes is one epic failure and the game gets a fail amongst the mass of gammers out there.  So long Star Citizen and thanks for all the fish, before the fish have even been handed out.

     

    Its not a successful format for MMOs and gets changed the moment developers realize that any form of perma death = game failure.  Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  Otherwise it will fail and people will be upset that they wasted money on funding a developer that doesnt know MMOs or RPGs or Space games period.

    We dont wan't star citizens with such a whiny and bitchy attitude anyways. I'm sure you can get a refund as well.

    Bye.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Ugh. An awful concept ruining what would be a great game. I still have hope for this one yet!

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • RoughshodRoughshod Member Posts: 16
    Q. Is there any way to opt-out of the death system?

    There is no way to opt-out of death in the persistent world, but remember that Star Citizen will include options for running your own server. We’ll allow you the option to set the game to infinite lives in this case.

    That is from the website article's Q&A. So basically, anyone and everyone could turn the feature off if they wanted to on a private server. The difficulty is knowing how long it would take to build up a char - if it is 3-6 months then this is a good feature, if it is years like in EVE then probably not such a good feature. Permadeath is interesting for several reasons, but one of the draws for me is that it removes uber top end players and cycles them back down.
     
    I do like it though, more in my line of preference. You should check out Trials of Ascension if you're into permadeath, that is a major feature of ToA.
     
    Permadeath isn't for everyone and shouldn't be considered to be universal. Games like Star Citizen and other MMOs are using croud funding to create games for more niche audiences.
     
    I would like to have some thrill of knowing my chracter can't live forever and that I need to think twice. Would space battles really be intense without it? I'm going to follow this game now because of this feature.
  • sea.shellsea.shell Member Posts: 63

    In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


    It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


    Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


    Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

    Playing: EVE Online
    Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter

    Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online

    Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
    WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2

  • RoughshodRoughshod Member Posts: 16
    Originally posted by sea.shell

    In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


    It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


    Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


    Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

    Oh, I had misunderstood this.

    So if you don't learn skills, and there are systems in the game to preserve some of your assets other than those directly lost in the death (your ship and stuff in the ship), and additionally you don't have to replay the Squadron 42 part:

    "No, everything you earned from Squadron 42 the first time will pass on: Citizenship, credits earned, starter ship and the like. If your beneficiary was a citizen his/her status will pass on down to you as well with a probation period that you have to perform some actions / missions / job to keep the Citizenship in good standing. You will have the option of playing a second campaign if you so desire, but it will not be required."

    Then... this is technically permadeath... but you lose nothing other than your name and score/pvp ranking? No real progress loss? Is it just a worry for people who care about top scores then?

  • nybratnybrat Member UncommonPosts: 16
    Originally posted by Ohura75

    I just became a 65.00 pledger, which gives access to all alpha and beta's.  Does anyone know when those might be?  Was poking around on the game site and didn't see anything about beta or alpha testing and/or a date.  

     

    Thanks

     

    The word is alpha starts by the end of this year. Dunno if it's still true, I read it several months ago when i became a pledger.

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505

    Sounds pretty good ot be..

     

    Cant wait for this..

  • VolkmarVolkmar Member UncommonPosts: 2,501
    Originally posted by Roughshod
    Originally posted by sea.shell

    In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


    It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


    Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


    Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

    Oh, I had misunderstood this.

    So if you don't learn skills, and there are systems in the game to preserve some of your assets other than those directly lost in the death (your ship and stuff in the ship), and additionally you don't have to replay the Squadron 42 part:

    "No, everything you earned from Squadron 42 the first time will pass on: Citizenship, credits earned, starter ship and the like. If your beneficiary was a citizen his/her status will pass on down to you as well with a probation period that you have to perform some actions / missions / job to keep the Citizenship in good standing. You will have the option of playing a second campaign if you so desire, but it will not be required."

    Then... this is technically permadeath... but you lose nothing other than your name and score/pvp ranking? No real progress loss? Is it just a worry for people who care about top scores then?

    You will also suffer a sight penalty to your reputations.

    Keep in mind this is not an RPG though, so your ship and your reputation is the totality of your character advancement and the system makes you lose the former and a part of the latter. Yes, you can insure your ship and so not lose it and you can insure your add ons/weapons/cargo as well but it is harder and cost more to do so. Likely, if your ship blow up it will cause some sort of financial loss to you and that is all there is to lose :)

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • simpliussimplius Member UncommonPosts: 1,134
    Originally posted by Boardwalker
    Originally posted by desdecardo

    ...failure like Eve.  Money wasted...Its why Eve never took off....

    Hmmm, EVE currently has over 450K subscribers, and it's population has been booming over the past couple months. Quite the failure? I think not, especially because it's been around for 10 years in an industry that chews up lesser games.

    And when you're talking death systems, EVE's is actually quite good. Even Chris Roberts said as much. For me, the only "harsh" mechanic to EVE's system is the loss of your ship, although if your ship is destroyed it makes sense that you would lose it. And getting podded is hardly a "harsh" penalty.

    EVE has been "booming" since the 90s, yet the player numbers are roughly the same

    EVE is a great game, and no failure,,,but booming? hardly

    and this game will be a direct competitor for EVEs customers,,lets see, how that turns out

  • simpliussimplius Member UncommonPosts: 1,134
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by desdecardo

     Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

    Thanks for the laugh.

    And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

    yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

    and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

     

  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926

    Hello,

    this is fantastic news! There are way too many so called "carebear" mechanics in today´s games in my opinion.

    The "death of a spaceman" article was a real eye opener - glad I backed this game with 80$

    Last time I checked the total funds for this game were close to 9.000.000 $

    Cheers

    Doc B

  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,465

    "a spaceman came travelling on his ship from afar ... 't was light years of time since his mission did start."

     

     

    sounds promising, looking forward to it :)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Sounds pretty bloody good to me..
  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,509
    Originally posted by desdecardo

    Wish I had known about this.  Now I feel like my pledge has gone to a game that will flail just above failure like Eve.  Money wasted.  Perma Death = Failure in MMOs and RPGs.  It wont succed once people know about this.  All it takes is one epic failure and the game gets a fail amongst the mass of gammers out there.  So long Star Citizen and thanks for all the fish, before the fish have even been handed out.

     

    Its not a successful format for MMOs and gets changed the moment developers realize that any form of perma death = game failure.  Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  Otherwise it will fail and people will be upset that they wasted money on funding a developer that doesnt know MMOs or RPGs or Space games period.

    Well.. but Star Citizen is not a RPG. You dont have Character Stats or Skills in the usual RPG sense.. you dont have Levels and you dont Level up. Your leveling is more or less increase of assets. And your assets will be handed on to your descendants. (your new avatar)

    And if you ask me.. it is a good thing. It will increase the value of accomplishments. It will create some kind of history. It will introduce risk vs reward. And the punishment for dying is well balanced. Not to harsh, but not completely meaningless either.

     

    Originally posted by Roughshod
    Originally posted by sea.shell

    In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


    It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


    Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


    Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

    Oh, I had misunderstood this.

    So if you don't learn skills, and there are systems in the game to preserve some of your assets other than those directly lost in the death (your ship and stuff in the ship), and additionally you don't have to replay the Squadron 42 part:

    "No, everything you earned from Squadron 42 the first time will pass on: Citizenship, credits earned, starter ship and the like. If your beneficiary was a citizen his/her status will pass on down to you as well with a probation period that you have to perform some actions / missions / job to keep the Citizenship in good standing. You will have the option of playing a second campaign if you so desire, but it will not be required."

    Then... this is technically permadeath... but you lose nothing other than your name and score/pvp ranking? No real progress loss? Is it just a worry for people who care about top scores then?

    Well... more or less. And you have to make a new Avatar.. completely different look and name. (the surname could be the same of course.. Son of.. )

  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619

    By reading about the death penalty, insurance costs, ship upgrades and medical bills, money and I mean allot of money will be needed to survive in this game.

    I just hope gold (money) sellers don't ruin this game.  They always seem to infiltrate mmo games with their spamming.

    Does anyone know if there are going to be checks in place that will prevent this from happening?

    Just curious.

    image

  • CsickCsick Member UncommonPosts: 20
    Originally posted by outfctrl

    By reading about the death penalty, insurance costs, ship upgrades and medical bills, money and I mean allot of money will be needed to survive in this game.

    I just hope gold (money) sellers don't ruin this game.  They always seem to infiltrate mmo games with their spamming.

    Does anyone know if there are going to be checks in place that will prevent this from happening?

    Just curious.

    Where there is digital currency, there will be Chinese farmers. The only way you can prevent this is if the currency has no value.   But as long as their efforts are worth what were willing to pay in $$ then they will continue to exist. What they can do is filter chat and ban gold advertisers. 

     

    You're right, the credits do seem to be the lifeblood of your character. It's what you Wager everytime you go out into no-sec space... It has value, its loss is noticed. This is what makes the game so fun. Have you ever played poker with real money? Have you played it with fake money? Completely different experience. The only reason your going to need an endless supply of creds is if you keep dying and losing... 

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