Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Do i smell fear again?
zomard100
Member Posts: 228
Is TESO now under attack like SWTOR a year ago? I thinik i smell fear again from fanbase of ''Most innovative, game of the century, the best of the best, no more grind, i want to live there'' game. People don't even know how this game looks and they write things like---Please do not believe them! Do not even look ! They try to cheat you! And most important we should not forget neverending wow comparison with any new title. Well i think that we will first destroy our oil reserves before wow dies. Why are some people so afraid of TESO success?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
i think people are getting bored with the same old same old getting released over and over.. even if we get told they are new and innovative like GW2 LOL..
GW2 turned out to be basically the same as any other themepark MMO released over the last few years and lots of people are bored of that... really no idea how it got voted innovative game of the year or whatever haha..
They can see it happening again with this.. who knows tho..
So you are saying that SWTOR only did bad because of the evil plotting of some forum goes in an obscure gaming site? Not because of quality, gameplay, and developer descisions, but because some random people did not want it to suceed? And now you fear the same result, from the same random forum goers on the same small gaming site for ESO. In that way quickly dismissing the developers responisbility in what descisons they take? Good one... Good one...
Next, I expet you to say the earth is flat and 6000 years old and anyone that belive in evoluton and science are evil plotters as well, because that is how crazy you sound.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Swtor on the other hard is the single worst "mm"orpg I have ever played, ever.
we never played, true fact, but we alerady have a big chunk of info, enough to see where this is going....
Got to agree. People desperately want it to be a success, they just do not want to repeat the huge hype followed by disappointing mediocrity we had with GW2 or SWTOR.
currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101
While I'm sure the inference engine of this site is PHENOMENAL, I tend to give more creedence to people who have actually played the game. Beyond that, I'll decide on my own when it's released.
A link, for your listening pleasure.
http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2012/10/26/eso-teso-skyrim-elder-scrolls-bethesda-zenimax-elder-scrolls-online-dragonborn-episode-43-hands-on-with-eso/
do you want me to find a swtor podcast link from a fanboy site?
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
While I'm sure you'll find many, please be certain that you find the ones that are from the alpha stage, and have a great amount of detail, with adequate references.
And the intended tone of your post was not unnoticed. I am indeed an Elder Scrolls "Fanboy". I would expect people who liked Star Wars or previous Star Wars games to have a more favorable opinion of SWTOR.
As I'm sure you will not bother to listen, allow me to summarize: They had several hours to play the game, and the overall feeling is that It has a lot of common traits with Skyrim, only better. If you did not like Skyrim, I would not expect you to like this either. Tell me: What did SWTOR have to compare itself to? The movies? WoW? KOTOR (Which everyone knew this game wouldn't be like from the outset)? Or is there some other decade plus spanning game-based legacy that I am unaware of?
If you don't think the concerns of fans of the Elder Scrolls series were voiced adequately at the annoucement, I suggest you review a lot of the initial posts after the fanfare. These particular fanboys who were intially fearful did a complete 180 after having actually played it. These fanboys made many direct references to Skyrim (In great detail), something that I am intimately familiar with, which gives it more substance than the puff PR pieces we've received so far.
Listen to it. Or not. But until you hear the detail from people who have seen the game first hand, you are, as the majority of people here are who have not actually played it, under-informed.
nah op i think people are tired of wow clones which it appears elder scrolls is going to be another one.
take a really awesome sandbox single player game, make it a themepark wow style mmo. I think that pretty much says fail right there.
but im pretty sure it will sell alot of copies, then one month later people will be max level and bored with the game and waiting for that mythical endgame they promised, just like swtor, tsw, and every other themepark mmo wow wanna be. the devs had a chance to make a true elder scrolls game and they made wow in tamriel.
im not gonna get it solely for that reason, im boycotting new mmos till devs and bankers and investors and anyone else get off their ass and quit trying to copy a 8 year old game. maybe when that happens mmos will get better but as long as we have retarded devs copying wow this industry is going to be stale and stagnant. you havent had a single game in the last 8 years that was truly different, it has all been wow with different skins.
Not sure which elements of ESO is similar to Skyrims tbh, theres nothing have seen/heard so far that would lead me to believe that is in any way true? and making references to skyrim is not the same as being like it in any way, and from what i heard, they werent exactly very convincing. Maybe once the game is somewhere closer to release and there is more information released we'll get an even better view of the game, but at the moment, the relation to TES is very thin, generally, and skyrim in particular, almost nonexistant. I would be very happy indeed if the game was in fact closer to the gameplay available in Skyrim, but its generally accepted that, that is not even being offered.
I completely understand your concerns and skepticism. There are some aspects I will also hold judgement on until I see it for myself, specifically RvR and crafting, as they did not get to experience these elements of the game.
However, if you listen to the provided podcast, they give many, many examples in detail about how TESO is like Skyrim (especially combat) and in some ways surpasses it. Give it a listen. It is 2 hours of details, which is a lot more than what can or has been put into text. If you need another reference from someone who was at this event, look up OMFGCata on Youtube, Jesse Cox. He also had a similiar reaction, but didn't provide as much detail as the people in the above podcast.
TsaboHavoc is correct in that they are obviously fans of the Elder Scrolls series, and Skyrim in particular. I am fine with that, because I am also an ES/Skyrim fanboy. I trust people who like what I already know I like to focus on the same aspects that I am interested in. They addressed them for me adequately enough for me not to be worried that TESO is, in fact, an Elder Scrolls game.
I had a hard time trying to listen to that podcast. After the first ten minutes of it they were still ass kissing.
I'm sure it's got plenty of valid and useful information, but it is not something that can't be put into text. HAving to spend two hours listsning to people talk and parse out all the meaningless babble is not a form of effort most are likely inclined to do.
If you had linked the FAQ that had been assembled a while back, that might fare better. People can not only handle it as they are just going through the Q&A, but they also have the capability to search out the specific things they want to know.
For example, 'how' is the game like Skyrim. If the answer only sits in the basic level of gameplay then that's something I'm honestly not content with. The simulation aspects that are developed and enhanced each subsequent generation of the system is just as important to me as anything else. The things Bethesda builds on and enhances in an effort to slowly push towards a better semblance of a living world, where the NPCs have a life to them that exists apart from the player and gives users a sense that even in their absence the world is moving.
So it becomes the question of did TESO inherit the concept of radiant AI from Skyrim as well. Was it granted the opportunity to take the tools it's predecessors were built on and expand them? Might we see a Skyrim Plus, where flora and fauna incorporate a seasonal lifecycle that the NPCs interact with?
If it falls back to 'I can with things with my weapon when I click my mouse button.' then I have to note that such a correlation means games like DDO are then too 'like Skyrim'.
Is it the skill system? Because from what we were previously told by the devs it wasn't. We had a core set of skills our classes were proficient in and the equipent we combined with that would give us personal flavor.
And consequently was it skill progression? Because that too from past press releases painted a very different picture from the Elder Scrolls series. Skyrim included.
At what level fundamentally is this game 'like' Skyrim. The basic bullet points that bridges the gap.
EDIT: Got a couple answers out of that second video actually.
1) Combat is superficially like Skyrim in that it operates via your mouse. Beyond that though the similarity stops in favor of other game mechanics like the hotbar and more so combos. Apparently there's a lot of mix and matching with abilities between people that can be done.
2) AI takes a step up in one way, and a step back in all the rest. They are not dynamic in their lifecycles as far as I could tell, since the world itself is designed to be pushed along via a character centric narrative and the heavy use of phasing, a 'living world' isn't really achievable. What they instead focused on was making them more dynamic in just combat, allowing the mobs to utilize combos between one another to throw unexpected strategies at you that no single mob could pull off.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I agree with you and I actually like GW2. They have been one of the most innovated AAA title released so far but even that wasn't enough (although the game is doing better than most other mmos atm).
I wish some of these IPs (SWTOR, ESO) would stop trying to make an MMO and just make an online game in a persistant world you can enjoy with your friends. MMOs has such stale standards, we all enjoyed and loved what it was but we've evolved even if the industry refuses to do so.
I hope this addresses a few of your questions. I agree, it's not always easy to listen to, but for the patient, there is a lot of good detail in it.
[Edited for grammer and 2 incorrect statements.. So far.
].
Fixed that quote for you. I doubt that fans of Elder Scrolls will enjoy this game. If I'm not mistaken the developers have already said that this game is not for TES fans but for people who play MMOs. Which is kind of a stupid move imo, the mmo market is doing terrible now.
So in other words it's like Skyrim, but it's not.
Let me preface all this with a very clear remark on where I stand on Elder Scrolls.
I'm a modder.
The thing I love more than anything else about the Elder scrolls games is not it's basic gameplay, but it's world and the technology that drives it. The more sophistication that technology has and the more ability we have to weild that system as part of that world, to experience it as a 'world' and not just a game, the better.
I have no specific complaints about the core gameplay of Skyrim, but I know there are other ways one can make the game that still exists well within the realm of the Elder Scrolls series, or for that matter being able to take innovation and expound upon a system that feels to give players more direct control over their own avatar and integrate with the game world.
So when I ask and when I hold aspects of the game suspect, it is because I feel it does not serve to expand the game as a world, as something that you can feel is living apart from your own input, nor let you leave your own impression upon that world.
So for the game to be 'like Skyrim' it can't simply be catering to superficial aspects like 'I click my mouse to swing'.
That is not something unique to Skyrim. That does not set the game apart nor does it advance the quality of it past it's predecessors.
And then there is the aspect of what is called 'like Skyrim' that very simply isn't like that game at all.
Equipment for example.
The distinction equipment has in SKyrim is that it has non-armor clothing, light armor, and heavy armor. There are preset forms of equipment that give bonuses, like all the mage robes. These are all enchantments though.
At it's core, equipment is generic. In a sense that's as it should be. Something that has a few baseline distinctions, but beyond that is a mouldable part of your repertoire.
You don't wear the mage robes forever, you disenchant them so you can apply that bonus to something else, quite often proper armor in the long run until you get artifacts that your prefer.
It's malleable is the point. The gear does not define you, you define the gear. This in turn feeds back to your ability to tailor your character to a fine point.
That's not what I just got told is in TESO. So I can conclude that it is not like Skyrim in that regard. At it's most basic level, yes it bears similarity, but there is nothing past that depth.
It seems many things take this route as well. You can explore the world and experiance it as you would Skyrim. but that's because they isolate it from the rest of the game world. They phase every aspect and make it so you feel individual and precious at every moment.
This I can say neither feel like Skyrim nor does it feel like Elder Scrolls. At the very least not what I have ever sought to get out of the games. Do we play characters of central import in the games? Technically, yes. But are we the only ones? Far from.
Think about the two titles before Skyrim. In Oblivion and Morrowind both you achieve your fame not by right, but by novelty. In Morrowind more so than Oblivion you start out as a hapless git simply swept into the machinations of that era. In Oblivion you have a bit of divine intervention that lets you become the hero by assisting another in achieving their birthright to save the people.
Taking a step back though and looking at the narrative, you should note that this was done by achieving certain goals and then being recognized for them. It's not always strict predestination (technically it is because it's the core plot and conclusion of the game, but its wirtten as if you have a hand in your own rise to glory).
That is something I think they could and should have done. If a person wants to be the hero of the era, then they step up and become it. What we get instead is effectively an entire subsection of the world suddenly getting their souls taken and now they all on the same quest to become the same thing.
That right there betrays what I consider not only a core aspect of Skyrim, but of the entirety of Elder Scrolls. It's no longer a world. It's a road. It might have plenty of forks and nice rest stops to admire the scenery, but I can not simply veer left into nothing and stumble my way into an emergent masterpiece. Only setpieces. Props that I'm all too aware are artificial and I can trust to be the same when I return.
This isn't to call TESO a bad game. Indeed there may be plenty of general ways in which it is similar to Skyrim as a game.
But I do not care for Skyrim alone as a game. I still play that title and past elder scrolls games because of the worlds that have and can develop. I care for Elder Scrolls as a series, as a technology, and as an ideal of innovation. Even if there are things people find underwhelming about the titles, be it the combat or the bugs steer them off, I remain fascinated by the potential of what makes the games tick and how we can build upon that each generation.
When that is taken away, it is no longer Elder Scrolls in anything but name, and there are other skill based action RPGs out there.
I want it's world. That, TESO does not have.
EDIT: I know I didn't expound upon skills or combat much, but it follows a silimar vein that you noted yourself more or less. Core aspects that pull from the previous title, but then mixed among other aspects that are not the same at a fundamental level beyond the general semblance.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
What you say about gear, well depends on how they make the game.
If they do gear like daoc, its very much how you describe in TES, daoc isn't a gear driven game, it has gear progression but its a much shallower slope than in EQ or modern mmos.
Of course they could go the wow route and ruin the game with "l33tepix". Guess its a wait and see.
Out of curiosity, what mods? Are these mods you have released?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yeah I remember gear crafting in DAoC. I was relatively happy with the concept behind how that worked for the game, thoug the process they used was rather tedious.
It's never particularly been a foreign concept in games. Functionally, you are breaking equipment down into it's basic gear. Physically what the thing 'is'. Every other bonus is it's own thing. Something you add to that gear to tailor how it serves you in the end.
I've generally always preferred that concept and that is probably why I am partial to the way Elder Scrolls has always provided it's gear. Even when you couldn't craft the basic gear yourself, you were still given the means to do all the tailoring and fine tuning.
Other titles have swung close recently. Suprisingly some of the more remarkable instances coming from the shooter genre with the likes of Borderlands, Loadout, and Blacklight all having weapons that have a core component defining the gun's function, then all the changeable parts that alter it's performance and potential effects.
It's certainly soething that caters well to nonlinear progression as well. Allowing for improvement by finding specialized components or materials to refine your equipment with that way it's more about building a set of equipment that's truly personal to you rather than being a cloned batch of 'epic gear'.
EDIT: To Sovrath
Entirely eclectic. I have a habit of collecting mods and then making my own things built over them more often than anything else. For the most part I like uaing or adding in things that adds activity to the game. Economy mods, shop mods, etc.
Part of why I love Real Time Settler so much.
As for things I personally release. That's pretty much nonexistant. I'm not a very outgoing person and I don't tend to reach out to other modders about stuff, so I keep my stuff to myself unless someone asks me about them.
I'm an artist more than a programmer though, so while I know and fuss with code, my own stuff is less likely to be big on that as much as it is integrating a bunch of other mods together or personalizing stuff.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Low fantasy setting
Full open seamless world
Meaningful and important crafting
No instancing
Player housing.
The big differences are 3 factions and classes.
Unfortunately it looks like they are adding wow though with instanced dungeons & raids and what have you.
I think if they genuinely made a tes themed "daoc 2" but where you picked one of 3 imperial houses to join rather than being.born into a faction and had a tsw / eve style progression system rather than classes. That would make a great mmo and be close to tes single player.
But it doesnt look that way, looks like they panicked and decided to add some wow into the mix. Which I kinda see why, with such a big project.