........ However, EVE isn't like a typical MMORPG where you initiate the action and you see it played out on the screen, and then the server gets confirmation that you performed the action. Rather, you try to perform the action and the client asks the server if the action is permissible. The server then agrees that the action is permissible and allows your client to play back the action.
This is standard in almost every netcode I have ever used.
The "realstate" of the game is kept on the server. Hence your server needs a big cpu and a lot of ram and bandwidth. This method was first seem (by me) in IDsofts Doom and has been a cornerstone for netcode ever since. I believe Counterstrike did not use this method (although it may by now) and hence left it self open to a lot of easy hacks, not to mention lag.
Originally posted by Ranma13 Originally posted by Borkenstein I dunno, I think there could be some pretty viable solutions to those things. The collision detection could be reduced primarily only to ship<-->object and ship<-->ship collisions (object<-->object is just realism candy, not necessarily needed). Collision detection can be made fairly inexpensive if you use the proper simple bounding on objects, even if there are 200 people running into asteroids at the same time. Damage wouldn't be an issue - damage needs to be calculated all the time for pretty much everything. However, the real time flight would potentially be a difficult problem if you wanted to avoid serious prediction and rubberbanding problems.
It's not as simple as you put it. There is a rudimentary collision detection system in-place in EVE but it's all client-side. If you add on damage, the calculations will have to be made server-side due to potential abuse. This will increase server load astronomically and is not feasible.
True 3D flight will also be quite difficult to implement but not impossible. However, EVE isn't like a typical MMORPG where you initiate the action and you see it played out on the screen, and then the server gets confirmation that you performed the action. Rather, you try to perform the action and the client asks the server if the action is permissible. The server then agrees that the action is permissible and allows your client to play back the action.
Well, it is actually pretty simple. Many MMORPGs support basic server-side collision detection to prevent abuse. The client usually calculates this on its own as well, and the server confirms that the client isn't doing anything illegal. To confirm that it's legal, the server has to know whether or not a player is passing through something they should. The calculations are not so intensive that a high-end server (much like one used for an MMORPG) wouldn't be able to handle it for hundreds of players at a time. Most MMORPG servers are clusters anyway, so its not like one CPU is handling all 5000 (or 15000) people connected to a "single" game server.
Eve isn't much different than the standard server<->client model used in MMORPGs. Usually the client has some prediction code and some visual leeway so that the player can start moving before the server has confirmed that they can, but if the server responds that the player made an illegal move, the client "rubberbands". Eve simply waits for this confirmation before doing the movement on the client. In any case, I was referring to the previously mentioned possibility of an X3 game, which could be any model they wished to use, not just an Eve server clone.
One very notable exception to the server-side model for movement is World of Warcraft, which is why there have been so many speed/teleport hacks in the past. The server wasn't verifying the legality of player movements. It's also the same reason WoW lets you walk around freely even when the server is 100% lagged and unresponsive.
Hmm, perhaps you guys are right. I've read some short excerpts from MMORPG books that differentiated between what should be kept client-side and server-side, and the costs associated with each. One thing that complicates things with EVE though is the 3D coordinate system. In other MMORPGs, the only values that really change are the x and y coordinates, since the z coordinate is a fixed value based on the x and y coordinates. In EVE, however, the addition of the third z coordinate might complicate matters.
Oh and puoltry, I still stand by my statement that you are a fanboy trying to save face in front of the EVE players. And since you don't live in Hawaii, don't even begin to talk. There's a huge difference between living here and just vacationing here.
If you go to the X3:reunion offical forums, you'll see a horde of negative feedback from their most devoted fans. I expected it to be bad but not THIS bad.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by Ranma13 Hmm, perhaps you guys are right. I've read some short excerpts from MMORPG books that differentiated between what should be kept client-side and server-side, and the costs associated with each. One thing that complicates things with EVE though is the 3D coordinate system. In other MMORPGs, the only values that really change are the x and y coordinates, since the z coordinate is a fixed value based on the x and y coordinates. In EVE, however, the addition of the third z coordinate might complicate matters.Oh and puoltry, I still stand by my statement that you are a fanboy trying to save face in front of the EVE players. And since you don't live in Hawaii, don't even begin to talk. There's a huge difference between living here and just vacationing here.
Loser.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Comments
This is standard in almost every netcode I have ever used.
The "realstate" of the game is kept on the server. Hence your server needs a big cpu and a lot of ram and bandwidth. This method was first seem (by me) in IDsofts Doom and has been a cornerstone for netcode ever since. I believe Counterstrike did not use this method (although it may by now) and hence left it self open to a lot of easy hacks, not to mention lag.
It's not as simple as you put it. There is a rudimentary collision detection system in-place in EVE but it's all client-side. If you add on damage, the calculations will have to be made server-side due to potential abuse. This will increase server load astronomically and is not feasible.
True 3D flight will also be quite difficult to implement but not impossible. However, EVE isn't like a typical MMORPG where you initiate the action and you see it played out on the screen, and then the server gets confirmation that you performed the action. Rather, you try to perform the action and the client asks the server if the action is permissible. The server then agrees that the action is permissible and allows your client to play back the action.
Well, it is actually pretty simple. Many MMORPGs support basic server-side collision detection to prevent abuse. The client usually calculates this on its own as well, and the server confirms that the client isn't doing anything illegal. To confirm that it's legal, the server has to know whether or not a player is passing through something they should. The calculations are not so intensive that a high-end server (much like one used for an MMORPG) wouldn't be able to handle it for hundreds of players at a time. Most MMORPG servers are clusters anyway, so its not like one CPU is handling all 5000 (or 15000) people connected to a "single" game server.
Eve isn't much different than the standard server<->client model used in MMORPGs. Usually the client has some prediction code and some visual leeway so that the player can start moving before the server has confirmed that they can, but if the server responds that the player made an illegal move, the client "rubberbands". Eve simply waits for this confirmation before doing the movement on the client. In any case, I was referring to the previously mentioned possibility of an X3 game, which could be any model they wished to use, not just an Eve server clone.
One very notable exception to the server-side model for movement is World of Warcraft, which is why there have been so many speed/teleport hacks in the past. The server wasn't verifying the legality of player movements. It's also the same reason WoW lets you walk around freely even when the server is 100% lagged and unresponsive.
Hmm, perhaps you guys are right. I've read some short excerpts from MMORPG books that differentiated between what should be kept client-side and server-side, and the costs associated with each. One thing that complicates things with EVE though is the 3D coordinate system. In other MMORPGs, the only values that really change are the x and y coordinates, since the z coordinate is a fixed value based on the x and y coordinates. In EVE, however, the addition of the third z coordinate might complicate matters.
Oh and puoltry, I still stand by my statement that you are a fanboy trying to save face in front of the EVE players. And since you don't live in Hawaii, don't even begin to talk. There's a huge difference between living here and just vacationing here.
If you go to the X3:reunion offical forums, you'll see a horde of negative feedback from their most devoted fans. I expected it to be bad but not THIS bad.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Loser.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)