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Hey murderer, come here and reflect on your actions.
Psy410
Member Posts: 70
You do not need to justify yourself, you haven't done anything wrong, unless of course if you consider your position through the eyes of your victims.
Who are the ones to be held accountable? What was the catalyst of the war? Have you been deceived by the home team propaganda? Do you even care?
Usually the first item you collect in a mmorpg is a weapon.
Your initiation, learning to destroy the enemies.
You can help the world become a better place for your kind by getting rid of the hostile menaces, before they ravage the lands that are rightfully yours.
You kill the monsters, the criminals and the wildlife and you receive recognition for your valor.
You kill for points, you kill to get from one place to the next one, you kill to get ingredients/materials, you kill to raise the undead minions that are willing to sacrifice themselves for your cause....
If you refuse to kill, you will probably have to aid the killers, what would make you a killer, depending on your point of view. Even if you never aid the other adventurers, you are still a killer by association.
Your life does not change, your innocence is not lost, you are not scarred for life. You hardly care at all. You might even brag about it.
But you shouldn't worry at all, you are not really guilty or desensitized, the thing you do in these games is not remotely comparable, it is just a fun choreography, sometimes more reminiscent of the real thing, but never too accurate.
Why should you feel grief? Why should you be frightened of it? After all these are just games, not killing simulations, whatever you put down always comes back, to play with the other kids.
Then, why does it have to be killing? Why can't it be a dance show off or a tag game? You have it.
Does it make you feel more important? What do you enjoy more, humiliating players or npcs? Why? Is it just your competitive spirit or does something else crosses your mind when you do it?
All in the name of immersion? Would you even consider trying a realistic killing simulation if you had the chance? The fantasy game probably wouldn't be called a fantasy game anymore, you would become a real sadist if you enjoyed yourself, this kind of simulation would be strongly rejected by many, because of the alleged negative influences that it could have over you.
*
In case you care to know about my position in the matter... yes, all in the name of immersion. Am I sick? Yes? Wouldn't that be considered an hypocrisy?
Oh and I wouldn't consider myself a "sadist", I think I would be a: "sadomasoshist", because I wouldn't want to be spared from the crude implications of something of this magnitude, being replaced by some, more idealized/abstract depictions of gore and violence.
What is your position in the matter?
Comments
it's just a game.
Besides that would like to say very well written almost poetry +10
Eh hmm
I've slaughtered enemies in WvW.
I've killed lots of monsters and wild animals and bandits and thieves.
I've killed bosses determined to destroy whatever pretend world I'm trying to save.
And...
I brake for squirrels.
I take spiders outside cause I don't like to kill them.
I would never actually harm anyone in real life.
Oh and I'll give you bonus points just for that freaky picture.
I keeled you fair and square
meanwhile, rather than increasing available mental healthcare for those who need it most, we decide to play the blame game.
cuz you know, we wouldn't want to have to actually sacrifice or work to better the world.
best to just declare the witch hunt on.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I'm not really sure what the intent is here. For some reason, mostly what comes to mind is some kind of TSW ARG.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
LOL!!
Short explanation:
(***warning for pure cowards / young kids behind you***)
Just this crappy image is more disturbing than all the footage of TSW (and really any other mmo) that I have seen and I think that is really disappointing.
Hmm in one of the first mmorpgs I played, SWG, I started off pursuing the master creature handler profession. I didn't really have to kill anything other than sci-fi critters, and that's mainly because I was taking their young and they attacked me over it.
After mastering that, I went the path of a swordsman. A Rodian swordsman. Rodians are known for their violant culture and dangerous homeworld. I joined the Rebel Alliance and fought against the Imperials. After some time with that, I decided to focus on crafting.
At this point, I didn't need to kill creatures or other living beings. I had to search and scan the land for suitable materials and then set up mining apparatus to recover the materials. I had a house. I set up shop. What did I sell? Weapons, all sorts of weapons. I was on my way to becoming a master weaponsmith. I provided fist weapons, batons, swords, hammers, blasters, blaster rifles, grenades, flamethrowers, and rocket launchers. It was fun
People Eating Tasty Animals?... Perhaps. ^^
Yes, happy holiday, want to go naked again?
"Fun" is not enough, that is the whole point of this thread. Why these great ideas are never fully exploited? You can, understand the morality of your actions, yet I doubt you can feel their weight or connect with them in a deeper level, in that game, the presentation aspect is always lacking.
MMO without killing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZ9Eib3VBc
such a shame it was shut down, it was amazing imo
Because they are games. There are parts of your brain that respond to imagination, dreams, etc. as if the things that happen there are real. It's how we can watch someone do something, and then we're able to do it. Imagining an act makes the act happen in our brains.
Our point of reference, sense of self, the "I" in "I am" can recognize the difference between what we imagine and what's really happening. So imagining you kill someone isn't the same as killing someone, doesn't have the same moral implications and doesn't have the instinctual responses. We just know the events in a game are just game events and respond accordingly. Instead of responding with an action based on our inner morality, we respond by gaming the system and making whichever choice gives us the most money or most reputation.
Wait, that's not right. Most people consider that type of stuff in video games boring. So, like many of the ills in the world, it comes down to money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The Sims Online was also an MMO without killing (not sure if you could kill your sim through accidents or neglect). It's no longer around either.
Thanks, I had forgotten all about Steparu and now I have several months worth of his content to go through and watch.
Also, OP, are looking for MMO's to make you look at your actions (similar to what SPEC OPS: The Line did). How could you even do that in a MMO?
I love how you think we can't be fooled, I understand how anyone could think that, but then explain, how people are able to cry in the cinema or hate the villain, or cry when they find out that he was actually the good guy all along, just after he died....
The imagination shouldn't be doing all the work and filling all the blanks, or we could be playing text based games / interactive novels with descriptions that are immensely superior to some of these games.
I just checked that game, thanks.
"there's a line men like us have to cross" I have to play that game.
Edit: btw I am not trying to avoid that question I just have been working on the answer for a while now, I hoped this thread could help me and others brainstorm a little on this subject.
I have never played it. I only know about it from the couple of episodes "Extra Credits." Here are the links for your perusal.
Part 1
Part 2
You can probably find it cheap on steam now.
I've killed millions of npc's over the years, and thousands upon thousands of players. It was all in good fun and competition. Entertaining.
I had the experience of using deadly force once. It felt nothing like killing in a game. I suggest that people who draw comparisons between the two don't know what the fuck they are talking about.
So many have repeated this words to me, yet I suggest that they can't possibly imagine what I know or what I want. We are not all the same, some of us actually think different and are willing to translate the truth into a medium. I don't want everything to be merely "good fun and competition" I am not looking for shallow entertainment or I would be playing now.
Completly agree with this, and this is what people need to understand actually experience it outside of the game and you will clearly understand the difference anyone who cannot has mental problems and its not the games fault it is something you should have adressed in some sort of institution.
They never say something new... apparently we are ignorant or twisted individuals because the -games- are clearly not meant to be like this.
lol.
When pigs fry.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Killing is not intrinsically good or evil. If the only way to stop an evil person/group/force from conquering/destroying the city/country/planet/galaxy/universe is to kill it/him/her/them, then killing is justified.
In some games, you don't actually "kill" things, though. In Champions Online, for example, the lore is that you beat up the bad guys and then the cops haul them off to prison after you're gone.
I'm actually going to play devil's advocate and agree with the OP on this. Though I would rephrase the issue.
Not exclusive to video games but it seems most media portraits the picture that in order for us to have fun, it always has to be at some elses expense. And we just slap a label of "bad guy" on him and we can just go to town. There's an overemphasis on (human?) suffering in popular media, and the false belief that life itself is a zero-sum game. In order for me to win, someone else has to lose.
If this is the way the question is asked, I don't have any good answer for it. Even though the occurence is rare, I'm sure everybody here has gotten a mission that required the proganist to do something of questionable ethics in order to proceed in the game. One example was that there used to be a questionable forsaken quest where you had to give poison to an innocent dog to test someone's experiment, and of course the dog died, and you got your reward, but it didn't feel right.
The truth is though, that adding an option for non-violent alternative solutions is often a waste of development money because 90% of the time, the user will take the easier path to every reward, regardless of circumstance. The truth is that people want their shines and games that make it simple to get said shinies are more fun. I've done all kinds of quests across all kinds of games, and I'm sure most people can agree that of all varieties that the "fetch" and "kill" quests are simply the easiest ones types to do for majority of players.
I think I suggested this, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't affect you anyways, even if you can justify your actions, why should it be satisfactory?
What if something unexpected happens and you don't realize it on time? Shoot them before they escape!
That is a symptom of the problem that I raised in the op, the games don't make us care, of course that we go the easiest way around every obstacle (because, saddly that is what they are to most) and laugh about it. I am tired of this meaningless charade and I don't really care if I appear to be too extreme / ignorant / disrespectful / perverse to anyone, the - games / mmorpgs - won't stay forever the same.
A few skips in logical train of thought.. but then again that;s rather subejcutve. Those who market games know what sells and they want to make money. Emprically driven research drives the mule in most cases. The same with psychological effects of video games or MMORPGs on users. Heck the Journal of Cyberpsychology is usually a good place to start there. Then again there is a growing body of research showing all the benifits that MMORPGs provide in terms of learning and psychological treatment. But meh, who cares, cause when someone makes a "How can people cross genders inan MMORPG" or a "Does your character in game represent you in real life" thread we get a nice flow of opinons, some pushed off as fact.
In the end though many MMORPGs have alternate ways of advancement. Take VanGuard's diplomacy and crafting, decorating in EQ2 just to name a few. But yeah looking at most video games, way back to the old 25 cent ones I'd play growing up a lot of it was about killing or smooshing things. There's a reason why the old Dungeon and Dragons had a monster manual and a fiend folio as well... electrum pieces.