X3 Reunion

Kaynos1972 · October 2005

Check out that new game coming out next week, it's not a MMORPG but man did you wish Eve had these graphics ?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/x3reunion/screenindex.html

Puoltry · October 2005

The developers of this game(EGOSOFT) have a superior product with this 1.Dont get me wrong EvE is a great game but x3 is better.

Anything that is done in EvE is done better in x3 and this is only the start.Everytime they come out with a new version of this universe it is a stepping stone to an online mmo that is being developed.

The current version has intelligent A.I. with a dynamic economy.NPC's will build competing space stations and factories while attempting to blow up the 1's you have built.Drug smuggling and piracy as well.For an off line game it is in many ways a better product than most mmo's.

Ive been playing x2 since it was released and ive not seen an end to the game at all.If you EVER get bored with EvE X3 will satisfy ALL your spacefaring desires.BTW i didnt get bored with EvE its a great game its just that with X2 and now X3 i get more accomplished than i ever did with EvE.

Ranma13 · October 2005

That's strange, I heard X2 was really dumbed down and the economy was a big failure. You could basically transport goods from one place to another repeatedly to jack up the prices of other commodities and then sell the other goods for insanely high prices. Also, X3 is an offline game. Not going to hurt EVE at all.

checkthis500 · October 2005

Looks good, but if you applied it to an MMO setting they'd have problems, because the NPC content is most of the game. It wouldn't hold a candle to EVE, since it is predominantly player run, but nonetheless I'm gonna try to play it because it seems like an awesome offline game.

Puoltry · October 2005

Originally posted by Ranma13
That's strange, I heard X2 was really dumbed down and the economy was a big failure. You could basically transport goods from one place to another repeatedly to jack up the prices of other commodities and then sell the other goods for insanely high prices. Also, X3 is an offline game. Not going to hurt EVE at all.

Hmmm isnt EvE primarily a economic simulator?Thats all i ever did was do trade runs and i played it for a year or so.

Compared to X3 x2 is dumbed down sure.As far as competing with EvE the devs for X3 are slowly developing the universe of X3 for online gaming.Ive read bits and pieces about it and they are developing technology that will allow them to build new sectors as the game grows once it launches.

All i can say is that as good as EvE is (and beleive me i beleive it is the ONLY mmo to actually push the genre forward)CCP had better look out for the competition.There are a few scifi space based mmo's in development.

Oh did i mention joystick support and a TRUE 3d universe?True space flight physics?Bump into a space station or asteroid and it damges your ship?

Anyway EvE is a great game but it wont be the only scifi mmo available for very long that takes place in space.

Matter of fact here is the official press release that has more info:

X³: REUNION continues to lead the way in offering players the ultimate
open ended game play experience, backed by an addictive storyline and intense
combat/trading action. Utilising the X³ Reality engine,
X³ pushes the graphical boundary to movie quality in-game graphics. TRADE
in a new economy, dynamically reactive in pricing relative to supply and
demand. FIGHT individual dog fights or command full-scale fleets against
massive enemy armadas. Budding trade entrepreneurs can BUILD interconnecting
factories to create huge space borne complexes, to truly mass produce
commodities. THINK through a professional screen-written story line, to
unravel the destiny of the galaxy.

X³: REUNION engine utilizes the very latest DirectX 9 graphical
technology; pixel shader technology is used to create realistic reflections
across a variety of surface types, while bump maps and specula maps add detail
to the geometry of objects
A freshly developed economy system allows for more imaginative ways to
conquer your foes via commerce. Functions using established business models of
Elasticity of demand, Economies of scale and
Return on investment. Factories are constructed by non player
characters, which can freely trade; wars in sectors affect the universal
economy, while opportunities bring challenges to both novice and experienced
players.
Over 200 newly designed models have been created for X³. Star
ship detail has been massively increased; over 10 times greater than the
previous game at an average of 25,000 polygons per ship
A new graphical user interface prevents less screen obstruction and
faster access to all game options.
Completely redesigned X universe, with new high detailed environments
including asteroid fields, dense gaseous nebulaes, star ship graveyards
and much more. Players can fly much closer to planetary bodies; where space
stations can hang in low planetary orbits.
A multitude of new technologies and weapons systems, make the player
even more devastating in combat; multi threat targeting system allows for
numerous targets to be pin pointed simultaneously.
Controllable via joystick, keyboard and mouse cursor; all are fully re-
mappable giving the player infinite choice over control layout, which can be
stored as custom profiles

checkthis500 · October 2005

Originally posted by Puoltry
Hmmm isnt EvE primarily a economic simulator?Thats all i ever did was do trade runs and i played it for a year or so.

On behalf of everyone that plays EVE, I"m sorry that that's all you did. If I wanted an economic simulator I'd play Sim City. If this was just an economic simulator it would probably have a 2.0 rating and would have been laughed at by the entire gaming world. If that's all you did, I'm sorry, because there's sooooooo much more that you could have done. The great economic part of it just backs up everything, and adds another facet to the game.

Puoltry · October 2005

Originally posted by checkthis500
Originally posted by Puoltry Hmmm isnt EvE primarily a economic simulator?Thats all i ever did was do trade runs and i played it for a year or so.
On behalf of everyone that plays EVE, I"m sorry that that's all you did. If I wanted an economic simulator I'd play Sim City. If this was just an economic simulator it would probably have a 2.0 rating and would have been laughed at by the entire gaming world. If that's all you did, I'm sorry, because there's sooooooo much more that you could have done. The great economic part of it just backs up everything, and adds another facet to the game.

That isnt all that i did i just wanted more without having to join a Corporation.Fact of the matter is i did do some manufacturing and PvP as a soloist.But i found if i wanted more out of the game itself i needed to join a corp.

Looked into joining up with a few and most of them wanted me to become intimate with a rock wether i wanted to or not.I just ddnt want to mine for 4 hours a nite for 7 days straight.I was well beyond that at that point anyway.

Hey did i mention that i think EvE is the BEST mmo on the market?

Didnt know if you caught that or not ::::02::

Anyway i wasnt criticizing EvE whatsoever i just found i get more accomplished in the X-Universe and i dont have to wait on my skills to train offline or on.

Ranma13 · October 2005

Originally posted by Puoltry
Oh did i mention joystick support and a TRUE 3d universe?True space flight physics?Bump into a space station or asteroid and it damges your ship?

This part right here will insure that this gaming series will NEVER become a MMORPG. There will be too much server lag if they had collision detection with damage and real-time flight.

A fanboy is still a fanboy, regardless if he can form a coherent sentence or not. You come in here touting X3 as a EVE killer when 1. it hasn't even been released yet, 2. it's a brand new game using the newest technology compared to EVE Online which is 3 years old, and 3. you're trying to compare an offline game with an online game.

Borkenstein · October 2005

Originally posted by Ranma13
Originally posted by Puoltry
Oh did i mention joystick support and a TRUE 3d universe?True space flight physics?Bump into a space station or asteroid and it damges your ship?

This part right here will insure that this gaming series will NEVER become a MMORPG. There will be too much server lag if they had collision detection with damage and real-time flight.

I dunno, I think there could be some pretty viable solutions to those things. The collision detection could be reduced primarily only to ship<-->object and ship<-->ship collisions (object<-->object is just realism candy, not necessarily needed). Collision detection can be made fairly inexpensive if you use the proper simple bounding on objects, even if there are 200 people running into asteroids at the same time. Damage wouldn't be an issue - damage needs to be calculated all the time for pretty much everything. However, the real time flight would potentially be a difficult problem if you wanted to avoid serious prediction and rubberbanding problems.

As a programmer, I am of the opinion that anything is possible, you just have to find the right solution (which has served me extremely well so far). So I don't think this would necessarily be something that would reduce the possibility of MMORPGization to zero.

On a fun note, one of the artists for X3 is actually in my corp in Eve, so he's pretty excited right now. ::::20::

Puoltry · October 2005

Originally posted by Ranma13
Originally posted by Puoltry
Oh did i mention joystick support and a TRUE 3d universe?True space flight physics?Bump into a space station or asteroid and it damges your ship?

This part right here will insure that this gaming series will NEVER become a MMORPG. There will be too much server lag if they had collision detection with damage and real-time flight.

A fanboy is still a fanboy, regardless if he can form a coherent sentence or not. You come in here touting X3 as a EVE killer when 1. it hasn't even been released yet, 2. it's a brand new game using the newest technology compared to EVE Online which is 3 years old, and 3. you're trying to compare an offline game with an online game.

Ok lemme clear some things up here.

1.Yea im a fan of X3 so what?Its a great game if you havent played it you should.Ive played EvE for over a year so i have a bit of perspective.

2.I NEVER said it was an EvE killer.As a matter of fact i actually said EvE is a GREAT game.

3.I actually did say that CCP has some competition coming up in the scifi mmo genre.

BTW check your facts because i didnt even start the thread.

I never said that it was an EvE killer and i never would because at the point that EvE is it would be near impossible.

Again go back and read my postings id like to see where i actually said it was an EvE killer?

If anyone is acting the rampant fanboi it is you getting a bit defensive over a game im just pointing out that X3 has many of the features of eve without the longterm skill training ::::02::

tachgb · October 2005

Yeah, the game looks amazing. Like others have said, once X3 is completed, you move onto another game...This is definately no patch on Eve Online.

pirrg · October 2005

*laughs at the dummies comparing a single player game to a mmo*

checkthis500 · October 2005

I see what you're saying Puoltry. And an offline game definitely has that benefit. I thought you were saying that that was "all" you did, and it made me cry a little on the inside. Yeah the game is focused on the community, so joining a corp is almost a must. The one I'm in doesn't really care what I do, as long as I try to benefit the corp. I dont have to spend a certain amount of time with a rock if I dont want to, etc. But I didn't mean to sound condescending or anything.

bpharris9014 · October 2005

Let me ask -- if you had a single-player game that took 30 minutes to get to anywhere to do anything, took an hour or two to get setup to fight and, once you did, lagged out, killed you with bugs and lag, or -- even worse -- you couldn't find any enemies, what would you do with it? You'd toss it in the trash.

Better yet, what if your single-player game had a lottery system for the best blueprints and the NPC that won the lottery used the profits from that blueprint to buy the rest of them that came out, forever, and charged you a ton of money so they could then buy all the game's very best ships for themselves? Again, you'd get pissed and toss it in the trash.

I cancelled my subscription to EVE tonight. I'm actually on MMORPG.com looking for my next MMORPG and I happened by this thread. I have a PvP character with 11 million SP and I'm done with the slowness, the bugs, the boredom and all the l33t-speaking jackholes who are only leet because they either, literally, won the lottery, or consume thousands of hours staring at asteroids or spreadsheets.

Today I lost another expensive ship to a CONCORD bug, while I attacked a flashing red war target in empire space. Of course, I petitioned this and the GMs haven't responded half a day later.

You can't compare EVE to a single-player because you couldn't sell a single-player game this slow and buggy.

pirrg · October 2005

I love eves weeding mechanisms. Im surprised it took eve 11 months to weed you out though. Usually only takes a week or two.

bpharris9014 · October 2005

I love how the people who post stuff like that never actually have any kind of salient counter-point. But, let's face it, if they were that coherent, they wouldn't keep tossing $15 per month at a "game" like EVE. I'm putting "game" in quotation marks because, to me and I think in common parlance, a "game" is supposed to entail -- fun. 13 jumps, or 30 minutes to get anywhere (CCP's idea of an enhancement, by the way) is not fun. It's a scam designed to use up the time for which you're paying money.

I understand that your mental capabilities won't let you parse this concept but it's true. It's no different from the XP grind in EQ and EQ2. Swapping out fun for time sinks is the typical dev scheme for swapping subscription time for money.

The only game I've played in which a player at any level can almost instantly find PvP or PvE action is Guildwars, and it's dismissed by these misguided purists (people who have so much time and money into their time-stealing game of choice that they'd be too embarassed to admit how they're being screwed) as being too juvenile.

Puoltry · October 2005

Originally posted by bpharris9014
I love how the people who post stuff like that never actually have any kind of salient counter-point. But, let's face it, if they were that coherent, they wouldn't keep tossing $15 per month at a "game" like EVE. I'm putting "game" in quotation marks because, to me and I think in common parlance, a "game" is supposed to entail -- fun. 13 jumps, or 30 minutes to get anywhere (CCP's idea of an enhancement, by the way) is not fun. It's a scam designed to use up the time for which you're paying money.I understand that your mental capabilities won't let you parse this concept but it's true. It's no different from the XP grind in EQ and EQ2. Swapping out fun for time sinks is the typical dev scheme for swapping subscription time for money.The only game I've played in which a player at any level can almost instantly find PvP or PvE action is Guildwars, and it's dismissed by these misguided purists (people who have so much time and money into their time-stealing game of choice that they'd be too embarassed to admit how they're being screwed) as being too juvenile.

Your last paragraph is too true.

checkthis500 · October 2005

Originally posted by bpharris9014

Let me ask -- if you had a single-player game that took 30 minutes to get to anywhere to do anything, took an hour or two to get setup to fight and, once you did, lagged out, killed you with bugs and lag, or -- even worse -- you couldn't find any enemies, what would you do with it? You'd toss it in the trash.
Better yet, what if your single-player game had a lottery system for the best blueprints and the NPC that won the lottery used the profits from that blueprint to buy the rest of them that came out, forever, and charged you a ton of money so they could then buy all the game's very best ships for themselves? Again, you'd get pissed and toss it in the trash.
I cancelled my subscription to EVE tonight. I'm actually on MMORPG.com looking for my next MMORPG and I happened by this thread. I have a PvP character with 11 million SP and I'm done with the slowness, the bugs, the boredom and all the l33t-speaking jackholes who are only leet because they either, literally, won the lottery, or consume thousands of hours staring at asteroids or spreadsheets.
Today I lost another expensive ship to a CONCORD bug, while I attacked a flashing red war target in empire space. Of course, I petitioned this and the GMs haven't responded half a day later.
You can't compare EVE to a single-player because you couldn't sell a single-player game this slow and buggy.

Well for starters, the developers didn't intend for you to travel 13 jumps to get anywhere. If I ever travel more than 6 jumps, I plan it. I know planning isn't your idea of fun, but yes I plan it. Because it's a dangerous game. Also about the Concord bug, every person (which is 1 or 2) got everything they lost reimbursed to them within a day or two of petitioning. Also, did you check to make sure you didn't have your overview set so that players with bounties are flashing as well? because I almost made that mistake, and made a double check and the player just had a bounty. So I turned the flashing for that off. And I have yet to run into lag except in a 100+ battle. And I have yet to run into a bug? So just because you lost a ship due to a bug, doesn't make a game "buggy." Oh and I'm not a fanboi, I would respond like this if you said this about GW or WoW, or EQ2, or any MMO.

I do agree with you however, that you cannot compare EVE to a single-player game because it's focus is groups, and working together, and community, and player-run everything. The only thing you could compare the game to is another space sim.

1337 jackholes are in every game that involves a keyboard and a mouse as well.

Ranma13 · October 2005

Originally posted by bpharris9014
I have a PvP character with 11 million SP and I'm done with the slowness, the bugs, the boredom and all the l33t-speaking jackholes who are only leet because they either, literally, won the lottery, or consume thousands of hours staring at asteroids or spreadsheets.

Is it just me or are you a complete dumbass? Why the hell would you play something that you don't like for so long, just to come on the boards and whine about it? Were you dropped as a kid or something?

Adding on to my point, using 'big words' does not make you better than anyone else. You're still a whiner, just one with a more prolific vocabulary.

Ranma13 · October 2005

Originally posted by Puoltry
2.I NEVER said it was an EvE killer.As a matter of fact i actually said EvE is a GREAT game.3.I actually did say that CCP has some competition coming up in the scifi mmo genre.

I completely anticipated you saying this. You know why? It's a thinly veiled attempt at not drawing negative stigma from the current fan base. Want an example?

"Guild Wars is a great game but World of Warcraft does everything that Guild Wars does but better. Oh, but Guild Wars is still a good game, but World of Warcraft will give it serious competition."

The fact that you mentioned EVE in comparison to X3 makes you a fanboy. Just as someone else has stated, comparing a single-player game to a MMORPG is an exercise in futility.

Ranma13 · October 2005

Originally posted by Borkenstein
I dunno, I think there could be some pretty viable solutions to those things. The collision detection could be reduced primarily only to ship<-->object and ship<-->ship collisions (object<-->object is just realism candy, not necessarily needed). Collision detection can be made fairly inexpensive if you use the proper simple bounding on objects, even if there are 200 people running into asteroids at the same time. Damage wouldn't be an issue - damage needs to be calculated all the time for pretty much everything. However, the real time flight would potentially be a difficult problem if you wanted to avoid serious prediction and rubberbanding problems.

It's not as simple as you put it. There is a rudimentary collision detection system in-place in EVE but it's all client-side. If you add on damage, the calculations will have to be made server-side due to potential abuse. This will increase server load astronomically and is not feasible.

True 3D flight will also be quite difficult to implement but not impossible. However, EVE isn't like a typical MMORPG where you initiate the action and you see it played out on the screen, and then the server gets confirmation that you performed the action. Rather, you try to perform the action and the client asks the server if the action is permissible. The server then agrees that the action is permissible and allows your client to play back the action.

Puoltry · October 2005

Originally posted by Ranma13
Originally posted by Puoltry
2.I NEVER said it was an EvE killer.As a matter of fact i actually said EvE is a GREAT game.3.I actually did say that CCP has some competition coming up in the scifi mmo genre.

I completely anticipated you saying this. You know why? It's a thinly veiled attempt at not drawing negative stigma from the current fan base. Want an example?

"Guild Wars is a great game but World of Warcraft does everything that Guild Wars does but better. Oh, but Guild Wars is still a good game, but World of Warcraft will give it serious competition."

The fact that you mentioned EVE in comparison to X3 makes you a fanboy. Just as someone else has stated, comparing a single-player game to a MMORPG is an exercise in futility.

Interesting how you twisted my statement there.Even more interesting is how you left out my 1st point.

Ok let me clear it up for ya.

EVE is the BEST mmorpg i have EVER played.I beleive it is the ONLY mmorpg to push the genre forward out of the stagnation that has infested it.

Now about X3:

X3 is the best offline spacesim on the market.If your a scifi fan or just want a great game with a lot of depth this is a great option.

I hope this clears it up for you,in no way have i compared the 2 games.I gave them both their deserved accolades and praise.

So why dont YOU quit being a fanboi and stop twisting my statements?But im sure this is a futile point as you will attempt it anyway.

Anyway try X3 when it comes out i beta tested it and it really is a good game for being an OFFLINE space sim

::::02::

Ranma13 · October 2005

The main goal of a fanboy is not to denounce a game, but rather to purport their game as better. If you were to just denounce a game, that would make you a whiner/troller. You claim that you did not compare the two games in any way. Let's take a look at your post:

Originally posted by PuoltryThe developers of this game(EGOSOFT) have a superior product with this 1.Dont get me wrong EvE is a great game but x3 is better.
Anything that is done in EvE is done better in x3 and this is only the start.Everytime they come out with a new version of this universe it is a stepping stone to an online mmo that is being developed.
The current version has intelligent A.I. with a dynamic economy.NPC's will build competing space stations and factories while attempting to blow up the 1's you have built.Drug smuggling and piracy as well.For an off line game it is in many ways a better product than most mmo's.
Ive been playing x2 since it was released and ive not seen an end to the game at all.If you EVER get bored with EvE X3 will satisfy ALL your spacefaring desires.BTW i didnt get bored with EvE its a great game its just that with X2 and now X3 i get more accomplished than i ever did with EvE.

Looks a LOT like comparisons to me. And I find it funny that you call me a fanboy when I have not said a word about how EVE is better than X3. Or even said anything positive about EVE. I have nothing against X3. I'll probably end up getting a copy and playing it. But what I am against though is people who come onto a forum for MMORPGs promoting a single-player game as being better. Doesn't that seem incredibly strange to you? That's like if I was to go onto the Steam forums and start telling people how Rise of Nations is so awesome and that it's much better than Counter-Strike or Half-Life 2.

Puoltry · October 2005

Whatever man get a life already.

Its a frickin GAME who really cares?

OMG you caught me!!You have a superior intellect!!

I just wont even bother to be involved in this anymore and drag myself down to your pathetic level any longer.Im sorry you feel the need to defend a game that requires you to waste 5 to 20 hours on a weekly basis for you to have some enjoyment.

Here ill make you feel even better about it:

EvE is in everyway a SUPERIOR game to every game ever created and in development at this moment.

Good enough?

Again just drop it man and go get a life somewhere.You live in Hawaii right?Go for a swim or something.If i lived there the LAST thing id be doing was camping out in front of a computer.

See ya!!!

checkthis500 · October 2005

two words. Ha Ha.

baff · October 2005

I have played all the X series. and also privateers, elites, freespaces, wing commanders and a few others whose names escape me.

Last year I had the good fortune to mingle with the company that started the genre. Frontier. They are in mid development with "Wallace and Grommit". Tragic.

The beauty of the X series is the economic model and the ability to buy space stations and start your own industry.

Eve disappointed me (slightly) that it was a point and click game (although it made up for it in other ways). I bought a great big joystick and throttle system with a gazillion buttons switches and hats to go with my copy of EVE, only to discover it wasn't a piloting type of thing.

Like Eve, the X series is not all that scripted. Most of the game is free form play in a living universe.

I will be buying X3 and will happily lose some months to it over christmas. I gave up Eve for X2 a couple of christmas's ago. Or at least took an intermission. EVE is a dreadfully slow game and stability issues can be very frustrating. I usualy have another game running on a nearby computer when i play EVE, X3 would make a great compliment to my collection. While X£ after a while can become a game of pure micromanagement through various interface screens it differs from EVE in that at anytime you can get behind the wheel or inot the gun turret and get some cheap reflex thrills.

I would like to see somekind of multiplayer aspect to this game but I don't think servers with over 60ish players is a likely reality. Joint ops can cope with 150 and still calculate decent colisions relatively laglessly but this took over 10 years and multiple generations of the software to develop. Planetside can do thousands but the hit taken the colision accuracy is very noticeable. Again Planetside is not first generation netcode.

Dogfighting can be an exciting aspect of this game and it would be a shame to sacrifice it for an extra few thousand players who I am never going to talk to anyway. Just a few friends in a persistent server would be a very intresting enhancement to this game for me.

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