Originally posted by RizelStar Originally posted by Kenzejust remember this is B2P for CURRENT content. future content will require cash shop purchase of DLC or a Sub to play
Isn't that how it should be or you mean they won't release no more free content period? that is my fear. I can see it going like this.. Investigation mission w/ cutscenes and voice acting will be DLC purchasable in the store. Free content will not have cutscenes, voicing and will be most kill this many.. and fetch me this quests. We'll have to wait and see.
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
Bump. If $30 is "not worth it" for a copy of the TSW than I'm not sure what is. If your in a dire financial situation thats a different story and a hope you are able to get back on your feet buddy.......... but value wise $30 is amazing no matter how you slice it
Not worth it at all. The state of Funcom as a company is hanging by a thread. If you want to donate money to this charity then by all means feel free to do so, but this is an obvious cash grab. Best case scenario the game will be free to play in 3 to 6 months. Worse case, they grab the Xmas money and close the company in the New Year. Personally for anybody to give this company money at this moment in time... needs their bumps reading.
Oh look, its mr. fallenlords with his holy crusade against evil funcom. It took you quite some time to jump in the arena for the poor and weak and defend their souls against the unholy company from hell. Thank godness you have arrived in time!
Mr. Fallenlords you are obviously a very objective fellow maybe you should try to get a job with fox news
Where does this leave the folks who bought " Life-Time " subscriptions ? Up the creek and no paddle would be my guess.
They get everything a normal subscriber will get, but with a 20% item shop discount (not including "packs"). So basically they get nothing unless they want to spend more money...
Originally posted by Kenzejust remember this is B2P for CURRENT content. future content will require cash shop purchase of DLC or a Sub to play
Isn't that how it should be or you mean they won't release no more free content period?
that is my fear. I can see it going like this.. Investigation mission w/ cutscenes and voice acting will be DLC purchasable in the store. Free content will not have cutscenes, voicing and will be most kill this many.. and fetch me this quests. We'll have to wait and see.
I doubt there will be any free content at all, much less basic non-VO stuff. Nor should there be if they have dropped the sub.
Where does this leave the folks who bought " Life-Time " subscriptions ? Up the creek and no paddle would be my guess.
They get everything a normal subscriber will get, but with a 20% item shop discount (not including "packs"). So basically they get nothing unless they want to spend more money...
Oh, I thought he said they would have enough points to buy other things from the shop as well as the packs?
Where does this leave the folks who bought " Life-Time " subscriptions ? Up the creek and no paddle would be my guess.
They get everything a normal subscriber will get, but with a 20% item shop discount (not including "packs"). So basically they get nothing unless they want to spend more money...
Oh, I thought he said they would have enough points to buy other things from the shop as well as the packs?
Where does this leave the folks who bought " Life-Time " subscriptions ? Up the creek and no paddle would be my guess.
They get everything a normal subscriber will get, but with a 20% item shop discount (not including "packs"). So basically they get nothing unless they want to spend more money...
Oh, I thought he said they would have enough points to buy other things from the shop as well as the packs?
Lifetime Subscribers get an amount of Funcom points that will be enough to not have to pay for any DLC in the future, and some left over for cash shop items on top of the 10% discount.
The poster you quoted is either unaware of what is going on, or is trying to deter people from having anything other than a bad taste in their mouth about TSW.
No, I said they get "everything a normal subscriber gets." A normal subscriber gets $10 a month for use in the cash shop, plus a 10% discount on anything but content packs. A lifetime subscriber gets the same thing, except that their cash shop discount is 20% instead.
I pulled this information directly from the OP link. But yes, feel free to either not read my post or simply assume I'm trying to deter people.
Where does this leave the folks who bought " Life-Time " subscriptions ? Up the creek and no paddle would be my guess.
They get everything a normal subscriber will get, but with a 20% item shop discount (not including "packs"). So basically they get nothing unless they want to spend more money...
Oh, I thought he said they would have enough points to buy other things from the shop as well as the packs?
Lifetime Subscribers get an amount of Funcom points that will be enough to not have to pay for any DLC in the future, and some left over for cash shop items on top of the 10% discount.
The poster you quoted is either unaware of what is going on, or is trying to deter people from having anything other than a bad taste in their mouth about TSW.
No, I said they get "everything a normal subscriber gets." A normal subscriber gets $10 a month for use in the cash shop, plus a 10% discount on anything but content packs. A lifetime subscriber gets the same thing, except that their cash shop discount is 20% instead.
I pulled this information directly from the OP link. But yes, feel free to either not read my post or simply assume I'm trying to deter people.
No worries. Sorry if I came off as snippy though. We just got a ton of snow this morning which, lovely enough, is supposed to turn into rain later today. Should make for a fine drive home...
I was told TSW was going F2P and to be honest, my initial reaction was disappointment, as F2P always attracts the absolute dregs of the MMO community. Upon examining the details, however, it's not that bad - it's actually a very reasonable B2P model and there don't seem to be any real P2W items in the cash shop yet, either, which I was very worried about - the AP boost is a bit suspect, but it's not game-breaking. As long as they don't add GW2-style tradeable gems, black lion keys, etc, I'll be happy.
I think this will really help get more people interested in the game. The reaction around the Intertubes seems pretty positive thus far and a lot of people are promising to check TSW out. If you're reading this and haven't yet - do give it a whirl, it's by far the best MMO of 2012, in my opinion.
FInally someone else gets it. Until now Turbine have been the only ones to get this model right with DDO and LotRO. Sure they do f2p where TSW do b2p, but after that initial pay the models are the same. You can either buy content as you please or go sub. Main thing is that the main focus of monitization stays on content and not items.
I belive that this is a viable model that more story driven MMO's should use.
Huh? What seems to be the problem? This model seems to be made of pure win.
As one who bought the game, loved what I saw of the story the first month, it, as it often does woth me and story driven MMO's, seemed like a rip off to pay monthly fee. I happen to have a life and a job and cant run through the content in a month. Wouldn't really want to do that either.
For me to be able to buy the base story and aditional chapters as DLC, seems perfect.
I own most of Dungeons & Dragons Online content by now, which I have bought the same way and I can play it when I want without a silly subm that does not make sense for me.
Now, I am not a sub hater. I pay my sub in EVE happily, be course there that model makes the most sense for me. In eve I at least gain SP for my money even if I dont get to play that much for some reason.
$200 divided by $15 sub fee = 13.3 months until break even and play for free
New Model
Box $30 plus DLC (lets say $6 and released every 6 weeks so $4 per month)
DLC = $220 divided by $4 = 55 months
$30 + DLC = 55 months to spend $250
The new model rocks for new players and is a kick in the teeth for lifers. Why do game companies always treat new players better than loyal customers? Didn’t anyone learn from SWG terrible NGE model that this does not work? Why would anyone ever buy a lifetime sub for any game from FunCom now?
It is like you just bought a new Ford Mustang for $30,000 and after 5 months your neighbor gets his for free but has to pay an extra dollar per gallon of gas. Are you ever going to pay full price for a car from Ford again?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
$200 divided by $15 sub fee = 13.3 months until break even and play for free
New Model
Box $30 plus DLC (lets say $6 and released every 6 weeks so $4 per month)
DLC = $220 divided by $4 = 55 months
$30 + DLC = 55 months to spend $250
The new model rocks for new players and is a kick in the teeth for lifers. Why do game companies always treat new players better than loyal customers? Didn’t anyone learn from SWG terrible NGE model that this does not work? Why would anyone ever buy a lifetime sub for any game from FunCom now?
It is like you just bought a new Ford Mustang for $30,000 and after 5 months your neighbor gets his for free but has to pay an extra dollar per gallon of gas. Are you ever going to pay full price for a car from Ford again?
Well, first off, they never know if their game is going to be a success or not. Lifetime sub is a way for them to get a bigger chunk of cash from you upfront.
Second, even after this people will still buy Funcom's lifetime subs.
I remember back when SOE did NGE to SWG. Everyone swore off SOE and Smedley for good.
Now EQNext is coming out and everyone is ready to embrace it, SOE, and Smedley all over again.
$200 divided by $15 sub fee = 13.3 months until break even and play for free
New Model
Box $30 plus DLC (lets say $6 and released every 6 weeks so $4 per month)
DLC = $220 divided by $4 = 55 months
$30 + DLC = 55 months to spend $250
The new model rocks for new players and is a kick in the teeth for lifers. Why do game companies always treat new players better than loyal customers? Didn’t anyone learn from SWG terrible NGE model that this does not work? Why would anyone ever buy a lifetime sub for any game from FunCom now?
It is like you just bought a new Ford Mustang for $30,000 and after 5 months your neighbor gets his for free but has to pay an extra dollar per gallon of gas. Are you ever going to pay full price for a car from Ford again?
I really hope those aren't just numbers you are making up. Your entire argument hinges on those numbers so making them up doesn't make much sense. You also are not factoring in the Cash shop 20% discount for lifers and other perks, $10 a month in cash shop points I believe.
I like how everyone is sooo concerned about lifers now. I suspect it's the only thing people can find to complain about with this new model.
$200 divided by $15 sub fee = 13.3 months until break even and play for free
New Model
Box $30 plus DLC (lets say $6 and released every 6 weeks so $4 per month)
DLC = $220 divided by $4 = 55 months
$30 + DLC = 55 months to spend $250
The new model rocks for new players and is a kick in the teeth for lifers. Why do game companies always treat new players better than loyal customers? Didn’t anyone learn from SWG terrible NGE model that this does not work? Why would anyone ever buy a lifetime sub for any game from FunCom now?
It is like you just bought a new Ford Mustang for $30,000 and after 5 months your neighbor gets his for free but has to pay an extra dollar per gallon of gas. Are you ever going to pay full price for a car from Ford again?
I really hope those aren't just numbers you are making up. Your entire argument hinges on those numbers so making them up doesn't make much sense. You also are not factoring in the Cash shop 20% discount for lifers and other perks, $10 a month in cash shop points I believe.
I like how everyone is sooo concerned about lifers now. I suspect it's the only thing people can find to complain about with this new model.
The only other thing that worries me is people will start to complain about the xp bonus and the other inevitable things they will place on their cs shop. It's not going to be a cosmetic shop only anymore and many current TSW players will not like that and the usual proponents against it won't like it either.
Originally posted by XAPGames B2P / subscription hybrid. Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen this before.
Well, I've never seen a company returning $10 worth of a $15 sub as item shop credit each month...
I've never looked too closely at the Freemium options offered by games. Usually my reason for not playing isn't the payment model, but the game itself.
One thing I'm curious to see is how existing subscribers handle the transition. Wondering if the sub numbers will go up or down.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
The only other thing that worries me is people will start to complain about the xp bonus and the other inevitable things they will place on their cs shop. It's not going to be a cosmetic shop only anymore and many current TSW players will not like that and the usual proponents against it won't like it either.
Well as far as "convenience" items, so far we have:
i. Run speed boost ("Quickened Anima") -- 3 tiers, also purchasable with in-game currency, up to same maximum level.
ii. Extra bank and inventory slots, up to 10 blocks of 10 purchaseable; also purchaseable with in-game currency, up to same maximum level.
iii. Extra Gear Manager slots; also purchaseable with in-game currency.
iv. "Timed AP Boost." -- "Increases the amount of AP gained when gaining AP by 1." Available in 1 day, 3 day and 7 day flavours.
(For those not familiar with TSW mechanics -- AP, "Ability Points" or "Anima Points" are used to unlock active and passive abilities (hotbar skills); ordinarily 1 AP is earned for every 40,000 XP, anywhere between 1 and 50 AP are needed to unlock an ability. The boost does not affect absolute gain in XP, which determines faction rank, or gain in SP, which translates into raw character power and the nearest thing to "level" one has in this game.)
$200 divided by $15 sub fee = 13.3 months until break even and play for free
New Model
Box $30 plus DLC (lets say $6 and released every 6 weeks so $4 per month)
DLC = $220 divided by $4 = 55 months
$30 + DLC = 55 months to spend $250
I guess you can take out the box price, since it's a must-have purchase, and it's irrelevant if someone buy it now, or bought it earlier (and payed more, but could play in the past months)
A grandmaster pack is 200$ and if the faq is right, you don't have to spend nothing more, the stipend will cover the dlc's and you can buy even some extra stuff from the leftover points.
I don't see the dlc prices yet, it's a safe bet that it will somewhere between 5-10$. So if b2p'ers buying dlc's on the run, they will spend 200$ between 2.5 - 5 years. (if dlc's coming in every 6 weeks). And they don't get the monthly bonus item, or anything else from the store.
True, it seems a bit long, but not uncommon. LotRO's LTA had also a ~2.5 years worth in subscription time. It's all depend the actual price of the dlc's.
I don't have a grandmaster pack yet (if Funcom would've made a grandmaster sale instead of b2p conversion, I'd bought that right away ), so I will wait for the first dlc in January. If it will somewhere around 10$ I think I'll jump into a grandmaster pack. Maybe it seems strange, but I do think that TSW will be up and running 3 years later
Originally posted by XAPGames B2P / subscription hybrid. Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen this before.
Well, I've never seen a company returning $10 worth of a $15 sub as item shop credit each month...
Most companies do that actually. IN EQ2, LotRO, and nearly every other Freemium game that offers a game cash stipend with their sub. The game cash stipend is usually about half of the sub fee.
Also, great job Funcom!
Sure... But the typical rate is 500 Store points or about $5. Not what looks to be 1000 store points.
The only other thing that worries me is people will start to complain about the xp bonus and the other inevitable things they will place on their cs shop. It's not going to be a cosmetic shop only anymore and many current TSW players will not like that and the usual proponents against it won't like it either.
That's a good point, although there hasn't been a lot of outrage yet - partly because everyone is focused on the transition itself and partly because those items are still fairly mild as far as cash shops go. Personally, I'm not a fan of the AP bonuses - I'm very much anti-P2W, but I suppose I can live with those. It's still better than, say, GW2's cash shop vis a vis selling advantages for real money - and most people seem to be happy GW2's cash shop, too, so I'd say Funcom still has some leeway.
Comments
that is my fear. I can see it going like this.. Investigation mission w/ cutscenes and voice acting will be DLC purchasable in the store. Free content will not have cutscenes, voicing and will be most kill this many.. and fetch me this quests. We'll have to wait and see.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Mr. Fallenlords you are obviously a very objective fellow maybe you should try to get a job with fox news
They get everything a normal subscriber will get, but with a 20% item shop discount (not including "packs"). So basically they get nothing unless they want to spend more money...
You make me like charity
I doubt there will be any free content at all, much less basic non-VO stuff. Nor should there be if they have dropped the sub.
You make me like charity
Oh, I thought he said they would have enough points to buy other things from the shop as well as the packs?
EDIT: I can't read.
Waiting on: The Repopulation
No, I said they get "everything a normal subscriber gets." A normal subscriber gets $10 a month for use in the cash shop, plus a 10% discount on anything but content packs. A lifetime subscriber gets the same thing, except that their cash shop discount is 20% instead.
I pulled this information directly from the OP link. But yes, feel free to either not read my post or simply assume I'm trying to deter people.
You make me like charity
I did misread, sorry.
Waiting on: The Repopulation
No worries. Sorry if I came off as snippy though. We just got a ton of snow this morning which, lovely enough, is supposed to turn into rain later today. Should make for a fine drive home...
You make me like charity
I think this will really help get more people interested in the game. The reaction around the Intertubes seems pretty positive thus far and a lot of people are promising to check TSW out. If you're reading this and haven't yet - do give it a whirl, it's by far the best MMO of 2012, in my opinion.
I would be happy if Funcom fell flat on its face.
I have been Funcom'd.
The Anti-Funcom bandwagon gains a new member.
FInally someone else gets it. Until now Turbine have been the only ones to get this model right with DDO and LotRO. Sure they do f2p where TSW do b2p, but after that initial pay the models are the same. You can either buy content as you please or go sub. Main thing is that the main focus of monitization stays on content and not items.
I belive that this is a viable model that more story driven MMO's should use.
6 months ?? ok then.
Huh? What seems to be the problem? This model seems to be made of pure win.
As one who bought the game, loved what I saw of the story the first month, it, as it often does woth me and story driven MMO's, seemed like a rip off to pay monthly fee. I happen to have a life and a job and cant run through the content in a month. Wouldn't really want to do that either.
For me to be able to buy the base story and aditional chapters as DLC, seems perfect.
I own most of Dungeons & Dragons Online content by now, which I have bought the same way and I can play it when I want without a silly subm that does not make sense for me.
Now, I am not a sub hater. I pay my sub in EVE happily, be course there that model makes the most sense for me. In eve I at least gain SP for my money even if I dont get to play that much for some reason.
Old Model
Box $50 plus Lifetime $200
$200 divided by $15 sub fee = 13.3 months until break even and play for free
New Model
Box $30 plus DLC (lets say $6 and released every 6 weeks so $4 per month)
DLC = $220 divided by $4 = 55 months
$30 + DLC = 55 months to spend $250
The new model rocks for new players and is a kick in the teeth for lifers. Why do game companies always treat new players better than loyal customers? Didn’t anyone learn from SWG terrible NGE model that this does not work? Why would anyone ever buy a lifetime sub for any game from FunCom now?
It is like you just bought a new Ford Mustang for $30,000 and after 5 months your neighbor gets his for free but has to pay an extra dollar per gallon of gas. Are you ever going to pay full price for a car from Ford again?
Well, first off, they never know if their game is going to be a success or not. Lifetime sub is a way for them to get a bigger chunk of cash from you upfront.
Second, even after this people will still buy Funcom's lifetime subs.
I remember back when SOE did NGE to SWG. Everyone swore off SOE and Smedley for good.
Now EQNext is coming out and everyone is ready to embrace it, SOE, and Smedley all over again.
I really hope those aren't just numbers you are making up. Your entire argument hinges on those numbers so making them up doesn't make much sense. You also are not factoring in the Cash shop 20% discount for lifers and other perks, $10 a month in cash shop points I believe.
I like how everyone is sooo concerned about lifers now. I suspect it's the only thing people can find to complain about with this new model.
The only other thing that worries me is people will start to complain about the xp bonus and the other inevitable things they will place on their cs shop. It's not going to be a cosmetic shop only anymore and many current TSW players will not like that and the usual proponents against it won't like it either.
I've never looked too closely at the Freemium options offered by games. Usually my reason for not playing isn't the payment model, but the game itself.
One thing I'm curious to see is how existing subscribers handle the transition. Wondering if the sub numbers will go up or down.
Well as far as "convenience" items, so far we have:
i. Run speed boost ("Quickened Anima") -- 3 tiers, also purchasable with in-game currency, up to same maximum level.
ii. Extra bank and inventory slots, up to 10 blocks of 10 purchaseable; also purchaseable with in-game currency, up to same maximum level.
iii. Extra Gear Manager slots; also purchaseable with in-game currency.
iv. "Timed AP Boost." -- "Increases the amount of AP gained when gaining AP by 1." Available in 1 day, 3 day and 7 day flavours.
(For those not familiar with TSW mechanics -- AP, "Ability Points" or "Anima Points" are used to unlock active and passive abilities (hotbar skills); ordinarily 1 AP is earned for every 40,000 XP, anywhere between 1 and 50 AP are needed to unlock an ability. The boost does not affect absolute gain in XP, which determines faction rank, or gain in SP, which translates into raw character power and the nearest thing to "level" one has in this game.)
I guess you can take out the box price, since it's a must-have purchase, and it's irrelevant if someone buy it now, or bought it earlier (and payed more, but could play in the past months)
A grandmaster pack is 200$ and if the faq is right, you don't have to spend nothing more, the stipend will cover the dlc's and you can buy even some extra stuff from the leftover points.
I don't see the dlc prices yet, it's a safe bet that it will somewhere between 5-10$. So if b2p'ers buying dlc's on the run, they will spend 200$ between 2.5 - 5 years. (if dlc's coming in every 6 weeks). And they don't get the monthly bonus item, or anything else from the store.
True, it seems a bit long, but not uncommon. LotRO's LTA had also a ~2.5 years worth in subscription time. It's all depend the actual price of the dlc's.
I don't have a grandmaster pack yet (if Funcom would've made a grandmaster sale instead of b2p conversion, I'd bought that right away
), so I will wait for the first dlc in January. If it will somewhere around 10$ I think I'll jump into a grandmaster pack. Maybe it seems strange, but I do think that TSW will be up and running 3 years later 
Sure... But the typical rate is 500 Store points or about $5. Not what looks to be 1000 store points.
That's a good point, although there hasn't been a lot of outrage yet - partly because everyone is focused on the transition itself and partly because those items are still fairly mild as far as cash shops go. Personally, I'm not a fan of the AP bonuses - I'm very much anti-P2W, but I suppose I can live with those. It's still better than, say, GW2's cash shop vis a vis selling advantages for real money - and most people seem to be happy GW2's cash shop, too, so I'd say Funcom still has some leeway.