Originally posted by DSWBeef Oh for the love of. If a game isnt making money or only making enough to support itself then why wouldnt they shut it down. I love Tabula Rasa but im not on some crusade against ncsoft becuase its gone.
CoH was making almost $11 million a year. Do you really think that the cost of the servers, and the minimal staff that was left was costing anything like that much?
NCsoft has a nasty habit of closing down western games. Look at their past history.
Thats why I'm concerned about Wildstar. I wish they had not picked NCsoft as a publisher.
AHH - do you know how much staff costs? with benefits? These jobs are not the fast food 7 dollar an hour job. Actually, I think the staff, servers, building, electric, heat, etc would be way more than that.
It's odd that you consider their western CoH servers to be their 'core product/service' or the source of their steady revenue stream ...
And I said this where? I was speaking in hypotheticals, not stating fact for NCSoft. Reading comprehension goes a long way.
Then I don't quite get why you replied with "Most businesses do have and maintain a core product/service that they will keep in order to maintain a steady revenue stream" in regards to talk about pulling the plug on CoH. No one questioned or contested they had that, it's just not CoH that is providing it.
Anxious for your reply, if for no other reason than to see if the ad hominems will eventually get original or if you're just going to cycle through stale material.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
CoH was making almost $11 million a year. Do you really think that the cost of the servers, and the minimal staff that was left was costing anything like that much?
That's why I think there were more factors involved than just the revenue. Maybe they saw it was on its way out. Maybe the pop numbers were dropping to a tipping point. NCSoft didn't get where they are by leaving money on the table so either they saw something in the near future that didn't bode well or there were other factors involved. Whatever the case, it seems business as usual and nothing "unethical" involved.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by DSWBeef Oh for the love of. If a game isnt making money or only making enough to support itself then why wouldnt they shut it down. I love Tabula Rasa but im not on some crusade against ncsoft becuase its gone.
CoH was making almost $11 million a year. Do you really think that the cost of the servers, and the minimal staff that was left was costing anything like that much?
NCsoft has a nasty habit of closing down western games. Look at their past history.
Thats why I'm concerned about Wildstar. I wish they had not picked NCsoft as a publisher.
AHH - do you know how much staff costs? with benefits? These jobs are not the fast food 7 dollar an hour job. Actually, I think the staff, servers, building, electric, heat, etc would be way more than that.
Yeah, that's why I asked before if anyone saying it was making a profit had a link. They were bringing in about 900k a month, and it isn't like the game was in maintenance mode they were making new content and updating regularly. I can see it costing more than 900k a month to maintain the game that COH was. Could they have dropped the cost through putting it on "maintenance mode" or "life support" as some like to call it, essentially leaving the game with few updates if any. Sure they could have, but it isn't very likely that they would have maintained that 900k a month either so as costs went down so would there revenue.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Oh for the love of. If a game isnt making money or only making enough to support itself then why wouldnt they shut it down. I love Tabula Rasa but im not on some crusade against ncsoft becuase its gone.
CoH was making almost $11 million a year. Do you really think that the cost of the servers, and the minimal staff that was left was costing anything like that much?
NCsoft has a nasty habit of closing down western games. Look at their past history.
Thats why I'm concerned about Wildstar. I wish they had not picked NCsoft as a publisher.
AHH - do you know how much staff costs? with benefits? These jobs are not the fast food 7 dollar an hour job. Actually, I think the staff, servers, building, electric, heat, etc would be way more than that.
Oh yes, I'm quite familiar with what operating costs tend to be... ^^ Given the minimal staff that NCsoft had left for CoH, and the various physical plant costs, its no where near $11 million.
Well, i can tell you for a fact that ncsoft is not so great anymore, in fact its tanking big time. And consumer defending a product they think is worth it isnt wrong, they are entitled to get their answers from the company, otherwise they can sabotaje said company. its not only your right as a consumer, its your obligation to do so, to avoid it ever happens again.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Oh for the love of. If a game isnt making money or only making enough to support itself then why wouldnt they shut it down. I love Tabula Rasa but im not on some crusade against ncsoft becuase its gone.
CoH was making almost $11 million a year. Do you really think that the cost of the servers, and the minimal staff that was left was costing anything like that much?
NCsoft has a nasty habit of closing down western games. Look at their past history.
Thats why I'm concerned about Wildstar. I wish they had not picked NCsoft as a publisher.
AHH - do you know how much staff costs? with benefits? These jobs are not the fast food 7 dollar an hour job. Actually, I think the staff, servers, building, electric, heat, etc would be way more than that.
Oh yes, I'm quite familiar with what operating costs tend to be... ^^ Given the minimal staff that NCsoft had left for CoH, and the various physical plant costs, its no where near $11 million.
What was the minimal staff? I haven't seen anything about how many people were still working on the game. They were still giving regular updates so it wasn't a skeleton crew.
Well, i can tell you for a fact that ncsoft is not so great anymore, in fact its tanking big time. And consumer defending a product they think is worth it isnt wrong, they are entitled to get their answers from the company, otherwise they can sabotaje said company. its not only your right as a consumer, its your obligation to do so, to avoid it ever happens again.
PS: its not the age, its the attitude. Most CoH players are older than you or him anyway, thats why they are doing all they can, as adults to sabotaje the company that wronged them for no good reason. Thats the right thing to do. Pretty much like what happened with ME3 BS ending.
PS2: really... everyone has done their research, they are not talking out of their asses because they are upset. Its been talked about to death and now they are looking to raise awareness.
Well, i can tell you for a fact that ncsoft is not so great anymore, in fact its tanking big time. And consumer defending a product they think is worth it isnt wrong, they are entitled to get their answers from the company, otherwise they can sabotaje said company. its not only your right as a consumer, its your obligation to do so, to avoid it ever happens again.
PS: its not the age, its the attitude. Most CoH players are older than you or him anyway, thats why they are doing all they can, as adults to sabotaje the company that wronged them for no good reason. Thats the right thing to do. pretty much like what happened with ME3 BS ending.
PS2: really... everyone has done their research, they are not talking out of their asses because they are upset. Its been talked about to dead and now they are looking to raise awareness.
And this means what? This leans further credence to cutting the low hanging fruit, then cutting the meat of the company. Every company does that - that is the way businesses operate. What you posted actually helps with the idea that CoH was not making money and they cut it to stop bleeding.
Originally posted by botrytis And this means what? This leans further credence to cutting the low hanging fruit, then cutting the meat of the company. Every company does that - that is the way businesses operate. What you posted actually helps with the idea that CoH was not making money and they cut it to stop bleeding.
You mean that their plan was to lower the value of their company, make hundreds of thousands of people mad and shut down one of their profitable games was part of a clever strategy to... uhm...?
Besides, had it not been profitable they would have said so. and shutting down games for petty reasons is what ncsoft does best. Tabula Rasa was closed just because they didnt want to deal with american, because they got raped in court by richard garriot after they falsified his resignation.
Botching games is not a sound bussiness strategy, and thats the only reason squenix is doing poorly. As far as blizzard goes, i really dont know why you bring them up, they havent shut down WoW.
Originally posted by botrytis And this means what? This leans further credence to cutting the low hanging fruit, then cutting the meat of the company. Every company does that - that is the way businesses operate. What you posted actually helps with the idea that CoH was not making money and they cut it to stop bleeding.
You mean that their plan was to lower the value of their company, make hundreds of thousands of people mad and shut down one of their profitable games was part of a clever strategy to... uhm...?
Besides, had it not been profitable they would have said so. and shutting down games for petty reasons is what ncsoft does best. Tabula Rasa was closed just because they didnt want to deal with american, because they got raped in court by richard garriot after they falsified his resignation.
Botching games is not a sound bussiness strategy, and thats the only reason squenix is doing poorly. As far as blizzard goes, i really dont know why you bring them up, they havent shut down WoW.
You are assuming they are doing things for petty reasons. They do it for business reasons - period. Individuals are petty - businesses are just don't do things like that.
Actually its not ok to shut down games even if they aren't making money. Sure in the eula they most probably do state this as a possibility, but there were still people who legitimately paid to play the game, and on top of it paid the monthly fees. With some attention you can turn any MMO into a profit, instead NCspoft choose to dishonor customers and hurt the developement teams that worked on these games. CoH has been out for a long time though, and probably it's time did come. However some of these other games on the list were dropped way to soon.
Originally posted by botrytis And this means what? This leans further credence to cutting the low hanging fruit, then cutting the meat of the company. Every company does that - that is the way businesses operate. What you posted actually helps with the idea that CoH was not making money and they cut it to stop bleeding.
You mean that their plan was to lower the value of their company, make hundreds of thousands of people mad and shut down one of their profitable games was part of a clever strategy to... uhm...?
Besides, had it not been profitable they would have said so. and shutting down games for petty reasons is what ncsoft does best. Tabula Rasa was closed just because they didnt want to deal with american, because they got raped in court by richard garriot after they falsified his resignation.
Botching games is not a sound bussiness strategy, and thats the only reason squenix is doing poorly. As far as blizzard goes, i really dont know why you bring them up, they havent shut down WoW.
You are assuming they are doing things for petty reasons. They do it for business reasons - period. Individuals are petty - businesses are just don't do things like that.
ah yes "those people dont think like that, ergo you are wrong".
And yes, ive seen people over 80 playing city of heroes, and they werent invested on the game as much as it was on the comunity and how the game brought them together.
and all i can do is assume, they refuse to give reasons and thats whats killing them, and thats because they are too embarrased to talk about it.
And were i a shareholder i wouldnt be very happy if the value of the shares when down like that, that i can guarantee. after all, they work for their shareholders, their job is to make them money.
btw, i would love it if you could actually give me a valid reason for why having your company worth next to nothing is a good thing for the guys that are paying your salary.
And this means what? This leans further credence to cutting the low hanging fruit, then cutting the meat of the company. Every company does that - that is the way businesses operate. What you posted actually helps with the idea that CoH was not making money and they cut it to stop bleeding.
You reading the graphs wrong. You have to look at the little numbers not just the line. Other companies having trouble? Maybe, not the ones you listed though.
Look at that 1st link again. Over the last 52 weeks blizzard stock is down about 1% Total, and well above their 52 week low. Infact analyst are saying that ActiBlizz 3rd qt report was "Better than expected."
And this means what? This leans further credence to cutting the low hanging fruit, then cutting the meat of the company. Every company does that - that is the way businesses operate. What you posted actually helps with the idea that CoH was not making money and they cut it to stop bleeding.
You reading the graphs wrong. You have to look at the little numbers not just the line. Other companies having trouble? Maybe, not the ones you listed though.
Look at that 1st link again. Over the last 52 weeks blizzard stock is down about 1% Total, and well above their 52 week low. Infact analyst are saying that ActiBlizz 3rd qt report was "Better than expected."
You can't just read the lines w/o the values. Square Enic is down abot 1.5%-2% btw.
And yet NC 3rd quarter revenues were up by quite a wide margin compared to 1st and 2nd quarter. Stocks aren't the sole indicator of the company and other factors can influence the stock price. Investors might have been looking for better revenue and dividend returns and sold because they didn't see them. It might not be a huge investment success, but it's still making mad revenue.
Look at revenues and stock prices. This is why people can assert that Funcom *is* tanking. FC revenue is in the dumpers and last I checked (couple weeks ago) their shares were 30 cents. Now that is tanking. Making that conclusion about NCSoft is a bit premature. If their stock prices remain low and their Q4 and Q1/2013 revenues decline then there is a problem. They are a long way from tanking.
I agree with everything you say. Except a comapny seldom hits rock bottom before it goes bust or gets bought. I'm not saying NCsoft is going bust, be we know that Nexom has "taken control" buy almost 25% of NCsoft over the last few months. The point is, Acti/Blizz stock is in far better shape and shold not have been used in Torvaldr argument.
NCsoft revenues "... is seen rapidly slowing down after the fourth quarter," btw. I think think B2P may have something to do with that projection.
And this means what? This leans further credence to cutting the low hanging fruit, then cutting the meat of the company. Every company does that - that is the way businesses operate. What you posted actually helps with the idea that CoH was not making money and they cut it to stop bleeding.
You reading the graphs wrong. You have to look at the little numbers not just the line. Other companies having trouble? Maybe, not the ones you listed though.
Look at that 1st link again. Over the last 52 weeks blizzard stock is down about 1% Total, and well above their 52 week low. Infact analyst are saying that ActiBlizz 3rd qt report was "Better than expected."
You can't just read the lines w/o the values. Square Enic is down abot 1.5%-2% btw.
And yet NC 3rd quarter revenues were up by quite a wide margin compared to 1st and 2nd quarter. Stocks aren't the sole indicator of the company and other factors can influence the stock price. Investors might have been looking for better revenue and dividend returns and sold because they didn't see them. It might not be a huge investment success, but it's still making mad revenue.
Look at revenues and stock prices. This is why people can assert that Funcom *is* tanking. FC revenue is in the dumpers and last I checked (couple weeks ago) their shares were 30 cents. Now that is tanking. Making that conclusion about NCSoft is a bit premature. If their stock prices remain low and their Q4 and Q1/2013 revenues decline then there is a problem. They are a long way from tanking.
I agree with everything you say. Except a comapny seldom hits rock bottom before it goes bust or gets bought. I'm not saying NCsoft is going bust, be we know that Nexom has "taken control" buy almost 25% of NCsoft over the last few months. The point is, Acti/Blizz stock is in far better shape and shold not have been used in Torvaldr argument.
NCsoft revenues "... is seen rapidly slowing down after the fourth quarter," btw. I think think B2P may have something to do with that projection.
First, nexon bought 14% not 25% so your facts are not right there and they bought the shares from the NCSoft CEO. As people have said, we Americans think the world revolves aaround us but, there are more game players in the Far East than in NA. That is where NCSoft gets Most or all of it's revenue from (look at the 3rd quarter report).
There has been plenty of SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) going around in this thread, but the only people who understand NCSoft's gaming business is NCSoft. Only time will tell.
Originally posted by DSWBeef People seem to forget that when you buy an mmo you are buying the right to use one of ncsofts account. YOu are entitled to jack shit.
SO true - the EULA states they own your character, etc. You own a license. I still have a lisence for Windows 3.11 somewhere. I should protest against MS for making newer OS's. Just silly.
NCSoft is within their rights to shut down CoH. CoH players and former players are, in turn, within their rights to try and make NCSoft as miserable as possible over the decision.
Got your attention tho, didnt it? so you are kinda just proving that the boycott at least raises awareness.
And as for ncsoft being a "gaming giant", they can still make mistakes, everyone can, because its being run by... you know, those things called humans. so believing that everything they do is the right move just speaks to me more about who you are than about who they are.
Problem with almost all the mmorpg's you listed OP. THEY HAD HARDLY ANY PLAYERS LEFT. Exteel? I tried that game 3 different times at prime time and it had maybe 50 people online. Dungeon Runners? Same exact situation. I also played Lineage 1 before it was shut down and it had maybe 50 people online at a time as well. The only two they had no real reasoning behind was Tabula Rasa and City of Heroes. If something isn't making them enough money then I'm all for it getting shut down. People just like to complain when a game they hadn't even thought of playing in 2 years is getting shut down because they had fond memories of it. Put it down, the argument won't do anything.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Oh for the love of. If a game isnt making money or only making enough to support itself then why wouldnt they shut it down. I love Tabula Rasa but im not on some crusade against ncsoft becuase its gone.
NCSoft's move to can CoH was last minute, balance sheet decision to make a quarterly report look better. It was a last minute move, probably due to one person at the top either changing their mind or being replaced. NCSoft rebuffed numerous offers to buy CoH, some of which included some very decent terms. The Paragon Studios remnants tried a number of different approaches over the last few months. Probably there were issues of 'face' involved at NCSoft, with the decision makers not wanting to admit they'd, possibly, underestimated the situation.
Given their blatent attempt to screw Richard Garriott, NCSoft can't readillly be taken at their word on any given thing.
City of Heroes was still a profitable game, one which had actually innovated heavily over the years. But that charge in the quarterly report was thought to be more useful. Though their stock price doesn't seem to have been that much helped by it. I know I am certainly not going to be helping with any more of their revenue.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
NCSoft is within their rights to shut down CoH. CoH players and former players are, in turn, within their rights to try and make NCSoft as miserable as possible over the decision.
And thats about everything that has been going on. some people doesnt seem to like it tho. because you know, the big company is always right, and we are always wrong, and we should just apologize for thinking that the costumer has any say, at all.
Comments
AHH - do you know how much staff costs? with benefits? These jobs are not the fast food 7 dollar an hour job. Actually, I think the staff, servers, building, electric, heat, etc would be way more than that.
Then I don't quite get why you replied with "Most businesses do have and maintain a core product/service that they will keep in order to maintain a steady revenue stream" in regards to talk about pulling the plug on CoH. No one questioned or contested they had that, it's just not CoH that is providing it.
Anxious for your reply, if for no other reason than to see if the ad hominems will eventually get original or if you're just going to cycle through stale material.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That's why I think there were more factors involved than just the revenue. Maybe they saw it was on its way out. Maybe the pop numbers were dropping to a tipping point. NCSoft didn't get where they are by leaving money on the table so either they saw something in the near future that didn't bode well or there were other factors involved. Whatever the case, it seems business as usual and nothing "unethical" involved.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yeah, that's why I asked before if anyone saying it was making a profit had a link. They were bringing in about 900k a month, and it isn't like the game was in maintenance mode they were making new content and updating regularly. I can see it costing more than 900k a month to maintain the game that COH was. Could they have dropped the cost through putting it on "maintenance mode" or "life support" as some like to call it, essentially leaving the game with few updates if any. Sure they could have, but it isn't very likely that they would have maintained that 900k a month either so as costs went down so would there revenue.
Oh yes, I'm quite familiar with what operating costs tend to be... ^^ Given the minimal staff that NCsoft had left for CoH, and the various physical plant costs, its no where near $11 million.
Well, i can tell you for a fact that ncsoft is not so great anymore, in fact its tanking big time. And consumer defending a product they think is worth it isnt wrong, they are entitled to get their answers from the company, otherwise they can sabotaje said company. its not only your right as a consumer, its your obligation to do so, to avoid it ever happens again.
[mod edit]
What was the minimal staff? I haven't seen anything about how many people were still working on the game. They were still giving regular updates so it wasn't a skeleton crew.
here you go, go nuts.
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS
PS: its not the age, its the attitude. Most CoH players are older than you or him anyway, thats why they are doing all they can, as adults to sabotaje the company that wronged them for no good reason. Thats the right thing to do. Pretty much like what happened with ME3 BS ending.
PS2: really... everyone has done their research, they are not talking out of their asses because they are upset. Its been talked about to death and now they are looking to raise awareness.
And this means what? This leans further credence to cutting the low hanging fruit, then cutting the meat of the company. Every company does that - that is the way businesses operate. What you posted actually helps with the idea that CoH was not making money and they cut it to stop bleeding.
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=ATVI.O
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=SQNXF.PK
Other game companies are having issues too..
You mean that their plan was to lower the value of their company, make hundreds of thousands of people mad and shut down one of their profitable games was part of a clever strategy to... uhm...?
Besides, had it not been profitable they would have said so. and shutting down games for petty reasons is what ncsoft does best. Tabula Rasa was closed just because they didnt want to deal with american, because they got raped in court by richard garriot after they falsified his resignation.
Botching games is not a sound bussiness strategy, and thats the only reason squenix is doing poorly. As far as blizzard goes, i really dont know why you bring them up, they havent shut down WoW.
You are assuming they are doing things for petty reasons. They do it for business reasons - period. Individuals are petty - businesses are just don't do things like that.
ah yes "those people dont think like that, ergo you are wrong".
And yes, ive seen people over 80 playing city of heroes, and they werent invested on the game as much as it was on the comunity and how the game brought them together.
and all i can do is assume, they refuse to give reasons and thats whats killing them, and thats because they are too embarrased to talk about it.
And were i a shareholder i wouldnt be very happy if the value of the shares when down like that, that i can guarantee. after all, they work for their shareholders, their job is to make them money.
btw, i would love it if you could actually give me a valid reason for why having your company worth next to nothing is a good thing for the guys that are paying your salary.
You reading the graphs wrong. You have to look at the little numbers not just the line. Other companies having trouble? Maybe, not the ones you listed though.
Look at that 1st link again. Over the last 52 weeks blizzard stock is down about 1% Total, and well above their 52 week low. Infact analyst are saying that ActiBlizz 3rd qt report was "Better than expected."
NCsoft stock on the other hand..... has lost close to 45% over the last 52 weeks. 25% of that since the "Dim" 3rd qt report.
You can't just read the lines w/o the values. Square Enic is down abot 1.5%-2% btw.
I agree with everything you say. Except a comapny seldom hits rock bottom before it goes bust or gets bought. I'm not saying NCsoft is going bust, be we know that Nexom has "taken control" buy almost 25% of NCsoft over the last few months. The point is, Acti/Blizz stock is in far better shape and shold not have been used in Torvaldr argument.
NCsoft revenues "... is seen rapidly slowing down after the fourth quarter," btw. I think think B2P may have something to do with that projection.
First, nexon bought 14% not 25% so your facts are not right there and they bought the shares from the NCSoft CEO. As people have said, we Americans think the world revolves aaround us but, there are more game players in the Far East than in NA. That is where NCSoft gets Most or all of it's revenue from (look at the 3rd quarter report).
There has been plenty of SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) going around in this thread, but the only people who understand NCSoft's gaming business is NCSoft. Only time will tell.
http://www.capitalcube.com/Catalog/company/stock-analysis-036570-kr-ncsoft-corp-recreational-products.html Read - NO DEBT, better return on investment then the average, etc. Yes, it sounds like the company is going down the tubes.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
SO true - the EULA states they own your character, etc. You own a license. I still have a lisence for Windows 3.11 somewhere. I should protest against MS for making newer OS's. Just silly.
NCSoft is within their rights to shut down CoH. CoH players and former players are, in turn, within their rights to try and make NCSoft as miserable as possible over the decision.
Got your attention tho, didnt it? so you are kinda just proving that the boycott at least raises awareness.
And as for ncsoft being a "gaming giant", they can still make mistakes, everyone can, because its being run by... you know, those things called humans. so believing that everything they do is the right move just speaks to me more about who you are than about who they are.
Haha amen to that.
NCSoft's move to can CoH was last minute, balance sheet decision to make a quarterly report look better. It was a last minute move, probably due to one person at the top either changing their mind or being replaced. NCSoft rebuffed numerous offers to buy CoH, some of which included some very decent terms. The Paragon Studios remnants tried a number of different approaches over the last few months. Probably there were issues of 'face' involved at NCSoft, with the decision makers not wanting to admit they'd, possibly, underestimated the situation.
Given their blatent attempt to screw Richard Garriott, NCSoft can't readillly be taken at their word on any given thing.
City of Heroes was still a profitable game, one which had actually innovated heavily over the years. But that charge in the quarterly report was thought to be more useful. Though their stock price doesn't seem to have been that much helped by it. I know I am certainly not going to be helping with any more of their revenue.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
And thats about everything that has been going on. some people doesnt seem to like it tho. because you know, the big company is always right, and we are always wrong, and we should just apologize for thinking that the costumer has any say, at all.