Even FFXI, a game that released with one single faction, had no world PvP, and emphasized PvE and grouping, had PvP. MMOs that want to be successful will offer players many things to do, and one of the features they can incorporate is PvP. As long as it's not forced on players, players will welcome it, unless it directly affects what they want to do.
If players want to concentrate on PvE, they don't want PvP balance screwing it up. If players want to focus on PvP, they don't want PvE balance messing up their fun. There are various solutions to this, such as making the two systems separate, but I digress.
While you enjoy PvP or tolerate it, there are players who simply do not care for it at all. They are unable to be ganked and bounce back. It will bother them. It will ruin their day. If you don't know anyone like this, it's okay, because I know plenty enough for the both of us.
The OP said that this game is not for everyone, and I agree. Just realize that this game is going to target a much smaller playerbase than games that provide both PvE and PvP but don't force the two together on everyone. Keywords: force on everyone.
Rungard wrote: "players who refuse to compete with other players in any regard or on any level should be playing single player games. This is why we have instances, why resources are personal, why we have the solo generation. Im primarily a pver and i feel this group has been way over catered to. They should be playing skyrim because that is their mentality."
Excuse me? I am a pve centric player and I love playing with other people. Not against. With. In groups going for items such as crafting components, or even *gasp* gear drops. In large raids also. Don't tell me I should be playing single player games because I don't like pvp, okay?
You want both players to be happy, but then you force game mechanics upon them, otherwise they cannot continue through the game. I don't see how that solves anything. If anything, it's actually a worse Idea than what we see out there now. Please explain how your idea fixes anything at all. I can't seem to figure it out.
While you enjoy PvP or tolerate it, there are players who simply do not care for it at all. They are unable to be ganked and bounce back. It will bother them. It will ruin their day. If you don't know anyone like this, it's okay, because I know plenty enough for the both of us.
How many MMORPGs force PvE content on their PvPers? Almost all of them. Although I'd love to see a game bring both sides together, I think it's time for PvPers to take priority, even if by a small amount.
That said, I don't see a point in an MMORPG without open-world PvP. It doesn't make sense, and it takes away from the feeling you have whenever you down a boss or complete quests -- if there's no danger involved, how is it rewarding? Sure, the boss could be tough, almost immortal, but there isn't a single AI out there that's capable of being as dynamic and unforgiving as another player. How can you role-play in a world where people are incapable of attacking other people? How can you enjoy it?
Granted, there are those who take it too far, but it's no more different than fighting a boss you just can't kill or mobs that zerg you. And granted, it is nearly impossible to properly balance PvP and PvE at the same time, but so what? Open-world PvP doesn't need to be balanced -- hell, that detracts from the entire point -- and, while it's certainly not a stroll in the park, there are ways of making it so PvE and PvP are as close to be balanced enough for everyone to enjoy as they'll ever get.
Gamers just need to stop whining and crying about how things aren't catered to their playstyle and instead offer constructive criticism and suggestions to developers.
While you enjoy PvP or tolerate it, there are players who simply do not care for it at all. They are unable to be ganked and bounce back. It will bother them. It will ruin their day. If you don't know anyone like this, it's okay, because I know plenty enough for the both of us.
How many MMORPGs force PvE content on their PvPers? Almost all of them.
Actually, none. Zero.
If an MMO is 80 levels of PvE and then the final level is PVP, you chose to grind your way through those 80 levels of PvE to get to the PVP. Nothing was forced on you. It's a little odd to suggest that a genre that has always been about PVE progression is somehow forcing you to do PvE progression. It's like walking into an orgy and complaining you're forced to see tits.
That aside, in the PVP-focused MMOs that I've played - UO, EVE and SB - the PVPers in the guild went out PVPing and the PVE players in the guild provided the resources for that to happen. If you played those games and your guild/clan/corp had you out farming mats while they were having fun in battle, then maybe you should have re-assessed whether that was the guild for you or not.
I can't think of a single MMO where a PVPer's gameplay experience was halted or drastically changed because someone baked bread at him.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
While you enjoy PvP or tolerate it, there are players who simply do not care for it at all. They are unable to be ganked and bounce back. It will bother them. It will ruin their day. If you don't know anyone like this, it's okay, because I know plenty enough for the both of us.
How many MMORPGs force PvE content on their PvPers? Almost all of them.
Actually, none. Zero.
If an MMO is 80 levels of PvE and then the final level is PVP, you chose to grind your way through those 80 levels of PvE to get to the PVP. Nothing was forced on you. It's a little odd to suggest that a genre that has always been about PVE progression is somehow forcing you to do PvE progression. It's like walking into an orgy and complaining you're forced to see tits.
Garbage logic and you know it. Anyone playing an MMO is choosing to do so, so nothing in an MMO, according to you, is being forced on the player. That means the entire point of this thread is rendered moot and we all might as well never play another game again.
If you play an MMO for PvP, anything between you and that PvP is being forced on you. It doesn't matter if you choose to do it or not because it's requirement that you must complete in order to accomplish your goal.
That means EVERY MMORPG that features PvE content is forcing it on the player, and there isn't a single MMORPG that doesn't feature PvE content (well, that I know of.. there are hundreds out there now, so who really knows), even if it's just being used as a filler.
You're right, the genre has always included PvE progression, but it's certainly not something that's required of an MMORPG -- Role-Playing Game. Role-Playing. If I decide to log into my character, PlaytimeBuddy, on, say, Dekaron and go on a killing spree, I'm role-playing. If I gain and further a reputation, I'm progressing.
There's no reason a role-playing game can't be built around PvP progression, or even PvE and PvP progression. I can't tell you how it would or should work, but I'm also not a developer or consultant making thousands of dollars by sitting in my chair and brainstorming.
While you enjoy PvP or tolerate it, there are players who simply do not care for it at all. They are unable to be ganked and bounce back. It will bother them. It will ruin their day. If you don't know anyone like this, it's okay, because I know plenty enough for the both of us.
How many MMORPGs force PvE content on their PvPers? Almost all of them.
Actually, none. Zero.
If an MMO is 80 levels of PvE and then the final level is PVP, you chose to grind your way through those 80 levels of PvE to get to the PVP. Nothing was forced on you. It's a little odd to suggest that a genre that has always been about PVE progression is somehow forcing you to do PvE progression. It's like walking into an orgy and complaining you're forced to see tits.
Garbage logic and you know it. Anyone playing an MMO is choosing to do so, so nothing in an MMO, according to you, is being forced on the player. That means the entire point of this thread is rendered moot and we all might as well never play another game again.
If you play an MMO for PvP, anything between you and that PvP is being forced on you. It doesn't matter if you choose to do it or not because it's requirement that you must complete in order to accomplish your goal.
That means EVERY MMORPG that features PvE content is forcing it on the player, and there isn't a single MMORPG that doesn't feature PvE content (well, that I know of.. there are hundreds out there now, so who really knows), even if it's just being used as a filler.
You're right, the genre has always included PvE progression, but it's certainly not something that's required of an MMORPG -- Role-Playing Game. Role-Playing. If I decide to log into my character, PlaytimeBuddy, on, say, Dekaron and go on a killing spree, I'm role-playing. If I gain and further a reputation, I'm progressing.
There's no reason a role-playing game can't be built around PvP progression, or even PvE and PvP progression. I can't tell you how it would or should work, but I'm also not a developer or consultant making thousands of dollars by sitting in my chair and brainstorming.
planetside is a MMO with no PVE content, gw2 and warhammer you can level without touching pve. Sandboxes you can usually avoid PVE but will need to craft / gather (at least at first)
So we have all read the posts a million times before. Many players that love PVE hate PVP and vice versa. Most games can only do one or the other good, but never combine the two in a game that both types of game players enjoy.
Variety is the spice of like, so I enjoy both types of games but have friends that like either one or the other and will not even try the other type of game. So I’m left playing games with either my ‘PVE’ game playing friends or my ‘PVP’ game playing friends. Which I think is very sad since they are all fun to play with and I would love to get them all together, in one game, hence, my idea.
Now please forgive me if this is not programmatically feasible but assuming it is, for now, I’ll move on.
The type of MMO, fantasy, sci fi, is irrelevant to this idea. It’s more the mechanics that I’m thinking about.
The MMO starts as usual with a tutorial for PVE. The game has a map with different areas and levels. The starter map area, levels 1 -5, is PVE only.
As you play and progress, you are introduced to some new concepts of gameplay mechanics that introduce you to PVP. Maybe via NPC dialog, quests, etc….but it is still only a PVE map area of the game, so the introduction to PVP is done in an interesting and fun way, promoting the importance at the same time, to learn PVP to progress in the game.
Then you hit lvl 5 and you are ready for the map area of lvls 6 -10 which are open PVP only and you cannot progress your character to 11-15 until you complete maps area 6-10. Hence, you must play the PVP portion of the game. Same for the PVP players, they must play through the levels of PVE to progress through the PVP levels of the game. With each area of gameplay, being important and required to progress through the levels of gameplay.
Now I’m sure a lot of you will say, hey, I don’t like being forced to play a game style one way or another. Noted, then this type of game is not for you. This game is geared to introduce in a fun, systematic, logical way the two types of game playing types without completely separating the two into instance zones or something like GW2 where PVP and PVE have nothing to do with each other. An integration of the two game play types where they both affect each other in some way. This game would intertwine the two game playing styles to make it interesting enough that both types of game players would enjoy.
Imagine for a moment my PVP players showing off their skills to my PVE player friends and vice versa.
It’s just an idea. Not intended to insult anyone’s game playing style or even say one is better than the other. It’s just an idea to bring the two worlds together. I think it would be fun and interesting.
try perpetuum. your pveers can run missions, mine, craft and terra form on the alpha isles, your pvpers can go claim territory, loot other players, build avance bases, mine the other stuff etc.. out on the beta isles. it doesnt use a varying security system like eve, the pve areas are 100% pve.
sandbox games are games where mixed guilds can thrive.
You want both players to be happy, but then you force game mechanics upon them, otherwise they cannot continue through the game. I don't see how that solves anything. If anything, it's actually a worse Idea than what we see out there now. Please explain how your idea fixes anything at all. I can't seem to figure it out.
Was away for a while and finally read through all the replys to my post. I first want to say thanks to all for your replys and opinions.
To answer the above post, it's about friendship. That was my original driving force to the idea.
I don't expect my friends to like everything I like and vice versa, but that doesn't mean I won't go to a football game with them even though I despise football. It's not just about the football game, it's about spending time with friends.
Another example would be going to a movie. If 10 of us want to go to a movie, and only 5 like that type of movie, we all go. We understand as freinds that you like this type of movie and we want to 'share' the expereince with you, regardless of weather or not we like the same movie type.
Game mechanics are not the only reason to play an MMO. There is the social aspect as well. My idea for this type of game was centered around friends 'sharing' your type of game experiences because gaming is such a large part of our lives. Like someone else posted, call me a dreamer but maybe it's just not possible considering how the two game types are just so different and shall always be two seperate worlds.
Yet one more game developer publishing manager (or however it is called) who trying to find a way forceencorage PvE players to PvP. Nothing new. Games like OP describes even exists but they can't say they have any significant player base because they have drawback for both sides of gaming community.
Yeah I understand that Pay to win PvP games are more profitable for investors developers and they (investors) wish to increase audithory of such a games to increase their profit - nothing bad in that. But it's not going to happens.
Why? Because PvE players tends to be cooperative and enjoy the process of gaming by itself (they want good concept and high quality storyline, hard tested AI system etc etc - all of this cost big money ) in distinct to PvP players who enjoy only of a result of this process and tends to be more competitive (which only requires good graphics so fightschars being cool looking).
Think part of problem is developers aren't so willing to explore new concepts anymore so they try use old PvE concepts and adding PvP to it. Part of open world PvP could be handled if it didn't go unpunished like alerting an area if a high risk PvPer enters.
Sometimes I think lots of developers try to make a single player game with online features. Monsters and bosses just have a few attacks while the player has tons. I wonder if PvE's faced equalled skilled mobs and not just HP bars if they'd still like PvE.
Btw I like both PvE and PvP, I'm not a vegi person or meat person I'm an omnivore XD. PvP is just PvE with smarter AI to me and I tend to play the weaker or least popular class so I'm not asking for balancing I don't expect my class to beat everything just some.
Comments
Even FFXI, a game that released with one single faction, had no world PvP, and emphasized PvE and grouping, had PvP. MMOs that want to be successful will offer players many things to do, and one of the features they can incorporate is PvP. As long as it's not forced on players, players will welcome it, unless it directly affects what they want to do.
If players want to concentrate on PvE, they don't want PvP balance screwing it up. If players want to focus on PvP, they don't want PvE balance messing up their fun. There are various solutions to this, such as making the two systems separate, but I digress.
While you enjoy PvP or tolerate it, there are players who simply do not care for it at all. They are unable to be ganked and bounce back. It will bother them. It will ruin their day. If you don't know anyone like this, it's okay, because I know plenty enough for the both of us.
The OP said that this game is not for everyone, and I agree. Just realize that this game is going to target a much smaller playerbase than games that provide both PvE and PvP but don't force the two together on everyone. Keywords: force on everyone.
Rungard wrote: "players who refuse to compete with other players in any regard or on any level should be playing single player games. This is why we have instances, why resources are personal, why we have the solo generation. Im primarily a pver and i feel this group has been way over catered to. They should be playing skyrim because that is their mentality."
Excuse me? I am a pve centric player and I love playing with other people. Not against. With. In groups going for items such as crafting components, or even *gasp* gear drops. In large raids also. Don't tell me I should be playing single player games because I don't like pvp, okay?
I don't see how this makes any sense at all.
You want both players to be happy, but then you force game mechanics upon them, otherwise they cannot continue through the game. I don't see how that solves anything. If anything, it's actually a worse Idea than what we see out there now. Please explain how your idea fixes anything at all. I can't seem to figure it out.
How many MMORPGs force PvE content on their PvPers? Almost all of them. Although I'd love to see a game bring both sides together, I think it's time for PvPers to take priority, even if by a small amount.
That said, I don't see a point in an MMORPG without open-world PvP. It doesn't make sense, and it takes away from the feeling you have whenever you down a boss or complete quests -- if there's no danger involved, how is it rewarding? Sure, the boss could be tough, almost immortal, but there isn't a single AI out there that's capable of being as dynamic and unforgiving as another player. How can you role-play in a world where people are incapable of attacking other people? How can you enjoy it?
Granted, there are those who take it too far, but it's no more different than fighting a boss you just can't kill or mobs that zerg you. And granted, it is nearly impossible to properly balance PvP and PvE at the same time, but so what? Open-world PvP doesn't need to be balanced -- hell, that detracts from the entire point -- and, while it's certainly not a stroll in the park, there are ways of making it so PvE and PvP are as close to be balanced enough for everyone to enjoy as they'll ever get.
Gamers just need to stop whining and crying about how things aren't catered to their playstyle and instead offer constructive criticism and suggestions to developers.
Actually, none. Zero.
If an MMO is 80 levels of PvE and then the final level is PVP, you chose to grind your way through those 80 levels of PvE to get to the PVP. Nothing was forced on you. It's a little odd to suggest that a genre that has always been about PVE progression is somehow forcing you to do PvE progression. It's like walking into an orgy and complaining you're forced to see tits.
That aside, in the PVP-focused MMOs that I've played - UO, EVE and SB - the PVPers in the guild went out PVPing and the PVE players in the guild provided the resources for that to happen. If you played those games and your guild/clan/corp had you out farming mats while they were having fun in battle, then maybe you should have re-assessed whether that was the guild for you or not.
I can't think of a single MMO where a PVPer's gameplay experience was halted or drastically changed because someone baked bread at him.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If you play an MMO for PvP, anything between you and that PvP is being forced on you. It doesn't matter if you choose to do it or not because it's requirement that you must complete in order to accomplish your goal.
That means EVERY MMORPG that features PvE content is forcing it on the player, and there isn't a single MMORPG that doesn't feature PvE content (well, that I know of.. there are hundreds out there now, so who really knows), even if it's just being used as a filler.
You're right, the genre has always included PvE progression, but it's certainly not something that's required of an MMORPG -- Role-Playing Game. Role-Playing. If I decide to log into my character, PlaytimeBuddy, on, say, Dekaron and go on a killing spree, I'm role-playing. If I gain and further a reputation, I'm progressing.
There's no reason a role-playing game can't be built around PvP progression, or even PvE and PvP progression. I can't tell you how it would or should work, but I'm also not a developer or consultant making thousands of dollars by sitting in my chair and brainstorming.
planetside is a MMO with no PVE content, gw2 and warhammer you can level without touching pve. Sandboxes you can usually avoid PVE but will need to craft / gather (at least at first)
try perpetuum. your pveers can run missions, mine, craft and terra form on the alpha isles, your pvpers can go claim territory, loot other players, build avance bases, mine the other stuff etc.. out on the beta isles. it doesnt use a varying security system like eve, the pve areas are 100% pve.
sandbox games are games where mixed guilds can thrive.
Was away for a while and finally read through all the replys to my post. I first want to say thanks to all for your replys and opinions.
To answer the above post, it's about friendship. That was my original driving force to the idea.
I don't expect my friends to like everything I like and vice versa, but that doesn't mean I won't go to a football game with them even though I despise football. It's not just about the football game, it's about spending time with friends.
Another example would be going to a movie. If 10 of us want to go to a movie, and only 5 like that type of movie, we all go. We understand as freinds that you like this type of movie and we want to 'share' the expereince with you, regardless of weather or not we like the same movie type.
Game mechanics are not the only reason to play an MMO. There is the social aspect as well. My idea for this type of game was centered around friends 'sharing' your type of game experiences because gaming is such a large part of our lives. Like someone else posted, call me a dreamer but maybe it's just not possible considering how the two game types are just so different and shall always be two seperate worlds.
Yet one more game developer publishing manager (or however it is called) who trying to find a way forceencorage PvE players to PvP. Nothing new. Games like OP describes even exists but they can't say they have any significant player base because they have drawback for both sides of gaming community.
Yeah I understand that Pay to win PvP games are more profitable for investors developers and they (investors) wish to increase audithory of such a games to increase their profit - nothing bad in that. But it's not going to happens.
Why? Because PvE players tends to be cooperative and enjoy the process of gaming by itself (they want good concept and high quality storyline, hard tested AI system etc etc - all of this cost big money ) in distinct to PvP players who enjoy only of a result of this process and tends to be more competitive (which only requires good graphics so fightschars being cool looking).
Think part of problem is developers aren't so willing to explore new concepts anymore so they try use old PvE concepts and adding PvP to it. Part of open world PvP could be handled if it didn't go unpunished like alerting an area if a high risk PvPer enters.
Sometimes I think lots of developers try to make a single player game with online features. Monsters and bosses just have a few attacks while the player has tons. I wonder if PvE's faced equalled skilled mobs and not just HP bars if they'd still like PvE.
Btw I like both PvE and PvP, I'm not a vegi person or meat person I'm an omnivore XD. PvP is just PvE with smarter AI to me and I tend to play the weaker or least popular class so I'm not asking for balancing I don't expect my class to beat everything just some.
-faith chooses no man