Originally posted by kishe Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
That's because it's not a singleplayer game - it's an MMO, and is therefore judged by MMO standards, one of which is longevity.
Most MMOs in recent history have been bashed because players lost interested in playing them, just like many have with GW2. The payment model doesn't really make a difference. When playing an MMO, many players expect to become absorbed in the world, and their measure of success is how long they are interested in playing.
Players have had similar criticisms of F2P games. Even though they cost absolutely nothing to play, players still believe that if it doesn't hold their attention, it's a "bad" game.
GW2 just doesn't have legs. It's badly designed regarding long term interest.
Exactly how so is it "badly designed" for long term interests? Do you know the time and effort it takes to put into getting a Legendary Weapon. And, after seeing people walking around with them (and their steps being growing plants, rainbows, streams of the sky, and so on), only then did I start working towards one myself.
Legendarys take 500 dungeon tokens, 500 WvW Badges, 1,000's of other materials, 600,000 Karma. That's a goal!
No, that's a grind - the same type of pointless, soul-killing grind found in every other game out there. Lame. The game's two and a half months old, and quite a few people have had legendaries for a while. Not much of a long term goal, is it?
Meanwhile, WvW is a waste of time, real social elements are non-existent, and the gameworld is meaningless.
There's a reason why the game is bleeding players, spurring threads like this and others. The payment model is no excuse - an MMO that fails to keep players long term has always been considered a failure. In this, GW2 is no exception.
Because a lot of us are waiting for the MMO to re-capture the feeling of the classic one's. However, it may be time to realise that this will not happen. Atleast not with ThemePark MMOs.
As for 300 hours, I only got 160 hours out of it before I got bored. Still ok but not what I expected.
Although I agree with the OP I also agree with this. I am quitting because theres nothing of my interests to do any more.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
If anyone didn't know what they were getting into when they bought the game, they didn't do their research. There were more blogs, videos and websites about this game than just about anything that has come out in recent history.
How do you explain all the "fans" whom did all that research and now posting that they are disappointed?
These kind of posts just try to place the blame on the players.
Originally posted by RoxtarrIf anyone didn't know what they were getting into when they bought the game, they didn't do their research. There were more blogs, videos and websites about this game than just about anything that has come out in recent history.
How do you explain all the "fans" whom did all that research and now posting that they are disappointed?These kind of posts just try to place the blame on the players.
Because it is the players fault. How about people taking some personal responsibility for themselves?
If one is the pre-purchase type then how much more needed to be available? If someone is going get all bent because they don't like something then maybe they should wait until they can try it before buying? How hard is it to use a little common sense?
On top of all that ANet honored refunds.
So I can see disappointed or ambivalent, but cheated? That's ridiculous.
+1
You know we debate and dissect every minute feature of every mmo on this site. From the moment it is announced, to 10+ years after release. To say you are duped or caught unaware is laughable. I know more about mmos Ive never played than a normal person should.
Besides, accepting responsibility for how you spend your money and time is... well thats just what adults do.
Originally posted by RoxtarrIf anyone didn't know what they were getting into when they bought the game, they didn't do their research. There were more blogs, videos and websites about this game than just about anything that has come out in recent history.
How do you explain all the "fans" whom did all that research and now posting that they are disappointed?These kind of posts just try to place the blame on the players.
Because it is the players fault. How about people taking some personal responsibility for themselves?
If one is the pre-purchase type then how much more needed to be available? If someone is going get all bent because they don't like something then maybe they should wait until they can try it before buying? How hard is it to use a little common sense?
On top of all that ANet honored refunds.
So I can see disappointed or ambivalent, but cheated? That's ridiculous.
+1
You know we debate and dissect every minute feature of every mmo on this site. From the moment it is announced, to 10+ years after release. To say you are duped or caught unaware is laughable. I know more about mmos Ive never played than a normal person should.
Besides, accepting responsibility for how you spend your money and time is... well thats just what adults do.
The Players that did all that research and still felt cheated most likely should have done some research on themselves as well.
Because a lot of us are waiting for the MMO to re-capture the feeling of the classic one's. However, it may be time to realise that this will not happen. Atleast not with ThemePark MMOs.
As for 300 hours, I only got 160 hours out of it before I got bored. Still ok but not what I expected.
The time for realization is now indeed.
I feel a bit sorry for MMO-developers who are met with unreal expectations entierly based on every individual's one unique past feelings of "discovering my first real mmo".
Will christmas ever again feel like it did was when you were 7?
Will going to work every day ever feel like it did the first day of your first real job?
Are you waiting for Metallica to sound like they used to?
Guess why more recent MMO players are more exited about new games, and "fall for the hype"? They are you, back at that golden time.
That's because it's not a singleplayer game - it's an MMO, and is therefore judged by MMO standards, one of which is longevity.
Most MMOs in recent history have been bashed because players lost interested in playing them, just like many have with GW2. The payment model doesn't really make a difference. When playing an MMO, many players expect to become absorbed in the world, and their measure of success is how long they are interested in playing.
Players have had similar criticisms of F2P games. Even though they cost absolutely nothing to play, players still believe that if it doesn't hold their attention, it's a "bad" game.
GW2 just doesn't have legs. It's badly designed regarding long term interest.
Is it really the games fault that most players seems to play them for a month?
I still play GW2 after more than 300 hours, Rift on the other hand became boring after 12. That is not Rifts fault but mine, it felt like I played it and what it offered for endgame just wasnt my cup of tea.
GW2 is not badly designed long term, it just aint your typoe of long term game.
Then some games are just really badly done, or the devs thought they could use the same mechanics as Wow and EQ in sci-fi games which if it works is still far from optimal. Rift, GW2 and Tera all have worlds specifically made for the right mechanics and are well made, so if we dont like them it is our fault, the games just aint made for us. That goes really for TSW as well, but it could have been a bit better coded.
Saying that GW2 suck because it isnt Asherons call 3 is rather stupid (not that I would mind if Turbine actually made AC3), they arew different games and the fact that noone makes more classic kinds of MMOs is not GW2s fault.
GW2 is not perfect, far from it but it is well made and I think at least most of the players got out their $60, some of us got a lot more out of it.
Originally posted by kishe Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
I don't feel cheated, i've never felt cheated over any game i've bought, it's always been my choice to buy the game. As for GW2 i don't think many who don't share your love feel cheated they just feel it's not a very good game.
Time to except that not everyone like your game.You put 300 hours in, bully for you.
I lasted untl level 80 and had no desire to go through that senceless, lifeless unimaginative journey again. Strange isn't it, Ive palyed Vanguard for 5 plus years and have 5 atls, three are level 55.
Everytime i start another atl it feels like a new start but then Vanguards world is vast and i could stay in one area witout actually leveing until top level.
The great thing of GW2 is that you never know what you gonna get from your play session.
What started as a quick session after dinner to just get the last few things for the daily achievment ended in being a 3 hour long session.
It all started with "Lets go finish that Harathi Hinterlands (a mid level zone) while finishing the daily" and ended in event after event in the top right corner of that map where around 10 players just went raiding the centaur camps.
It progressed with bumping with some other players while I fetched the last 3 or 4 PoIs in the middle of centaur outposts scattered around the region, including one where I jumped in a water body to escape a Centaur Champion and being surrounded by 10 barracudas but fortunately 2 players materialized beside me.
Finaly the session ended with me saving some soldiers from spider coccoons while running to the last PoI and be pursued by a ton of spiders that kept popping as I trashed each coccoon. That triggered the Gargantum spider event, but I saw no players so I just kept going to the PoI. Then I shouted in map that the event was up. Another warrior shown up and was bashing the champion spider while I "tanked" it with my Mace/Shield healing shouts spec. The other warrior went down a few times so I had to rezz him. An elementalist soon appeared and the Spider went down after losing interest in me and keep focusing on the other warrior.
I didn't plan any of that - just wanted some gatherings and a couple of different mob kills for the daily.
That is why I like in GW2 - wandering around with no long term goals (eventually legenday weapons will happen, but it isn't a focused effort).
300+ hours and counting, and of that 250 is only in the warrior.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
60 bucks gives yeh 300 hours. How can you beat that.
There is no way someone could make the argument that 300 hours of entertainment isn't worth $60. From that stand point you can't be wrong. I guess people let the hype leading into cause them to lose sight of the golden rule. "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is."
With LotRO Lifetime Account... =P
Got me 292 days (=3504 hours) of gameplay for 150 bucks, all expansions for free via cash shop points and still running...
The great thing of GW2 is that you never know what you gonna get from your play session.
Reminds me in beta, when I wanted to run from Black Citadel to Divinity's Reach just to see how much time it would take (without using the Asura gates, obviously)... I ended stopping for dozens of events, and it took me like 6 hours for that trip
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by kishe Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
I hate it when devs make false promises. Only difference is that FC not only made false promises but went one step ahead and printed it on back of the box. Devs need to stop fooling their player base.
Originally posted by kishe Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
They bought game because of some internet evangelist and their imagination was running wild. They they colide with hard reality. Something like that.
People who knew what to expect got what we paid for and I'm glad I did. Everyone else - screw them.
Originally posted by kishe Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
They bought game because of some internet evangelist and their imagination was running wild. They they colide with hard reality. Something like that.
People who knew what to expect got what we paid for and I'm glad I did. Everyone else - screw them.
Actually thank them for paying and not using bandwidth (although bandwidth is pennies).
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by kishe Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
They bought game because of some internet evangelist and their imagination was running wild. They they colide with hard reality. Something like that.
People who knew what to expect got what we paid for and I'm glad I did. Everyone else - screw them.
Actually thank them for paying and not using bandwidth (although bandwidth is pennies).
Hehe yeah... actually, the more... how to put that without getting infracted? "funny"? - actually, the more "funny" ones are those who were already bashing the game big time during the whole beta, and STILL bought the game... I guess to be able to complain more about a game they already knew was not for them. I thank those people for giving their money to ANet and for supporting the game I enjoy - they know who they are ;-)
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by kishe Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
I hate it when devs make false promises. Only difference is that FC not only made false promises but went one step ahead and printed it on back of the box. Devs need to stop fooling their player base.
Thats pure gold right there.
First theres a guy asking simple thing "where is this feature"
then comes forum troll coling hijacking his thread "halloween is coming"
then comes his alter egos and viral marketers "im so excited,way to go colin"
then people are like "amazing Anet"
and soon people are like "but where is those bar fights?? "
While it is a great thing you got a decent amount of time from the money you spent. MMO's and Single player games can't be looked at in the same light. Here is another reason the B2P model shouldn't be done.
A single player game has a set amount of entertainment it has to offer. Once you hit that cap, the game is over and finished. You feel satisfied with your purchase because that is all you expected out of the game in the first place. An aside to occupy time with an interactive story.
MMO's are different in nature as they are a lasting enjoyment. When people drop money on an MMO, they expect it to occupy there time for a long period of time. Thats what the additional service costs are for. Now in GW2's defence they don't charge the premium so they have no obligation to extend your time in the game (B2P/F2P models have that luxury). Which is where I believe the "I feel cheated" sentiment is coming from.
If you look at the trend of MMO's, most in the last few years should have gone B2P or F2P to start. Thats why we are seeing them change business models now. The MMO's of today haven't been able to justify the subscription cost because they don't have the capability to sustain a players interest for long periods of time, at a time. Content can't keep up.
Whether we will see MMO's of old coming back that justify the subscription cost is yet to be seen. But I think with games like ArcheAge, WoD, Elder Scrolls Online (renewed faith after the video seen yesterday), and possibly EQ:Next from what Smedley has said of it (not that I believe a word he says)....we may see a return of premium AAA titles that do infact justify that sub price.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
This is pretty accurate. I guess the biggest obstacle for many to overcome is that this is a very casual MMO. So casual and lightweight that it blurs the line between coop multiplay and MMO.
Price has never been an issue with this game. I think people would have gladly payed more than $60 for something with a bit more meat at its core.
It's a good fun video game but it is like night and day difference from classic MMOs (such as EQ, UO, SWG).
This is like an MMO appetizer....a poo-poo platter. Has a little of this, little of that, some of this. Tastes really good but it's not that filling. More of a sampling of some aspects of the genre.
I have got my monies worth and just taking a break to play XCOM and that is why I love GW2. I will definitely go back to it but not pressured to use up sub.
As for feeling cheated I personally think its a generation thing. When I started playing games we used 51/4 inch floppies and you were winning if the game even worked. Then you had to work with a monochrome 256x screen with beeps as sound effects. I know where games have come from and I really really appreciate the modern games out there.
If you haven't started from the beginning then you can feel cheated as you always wan't to be dazzled. I think older gamers are more appreciative because we know how crap games were!
However, I do feel games have lost that old school feeling that came with Elite, Master of Orion 2, Bards Tale (1980's), Wizadry fallout, Baldurs Gate, Privateer etc. They seemed to be closely aligned to D&D or role playing games and had that intense feeling. Today games are more like smack a mole.
Best post I've read in a while.
I think with mmorpgs - if you sink 300 hours into a game, you may have got your money, but if you end it there, you feel that those 300 hours did not meet the expectation of a mmorpg, that is 3 hrs, 30 hrs, 300 hrs, 3000 hrs - the virtual world is always interesting in some way.
Originally posted by kishe I dont understand why some people feel cheated ?
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
What ever players reason for being disappointe is could differ alot amd some well feel cheated because they reasonable was lead to belive that the game could deliver what they expected.
I did also get my 60 dollars worth of entertainment. And i don't feel cheated, but i feel disapointed so far. Mostly because the type of gamer i am, did actual get a much better game from GW1 and nothing prepared me for that.
I still have hope that in the end GW2 could get there where i get my expectation satisfied. But it require alot work and a change of focus, back to some of the qualities that was aboundant in GW1.
Originally posted by kishe I dont understand why some people feel cheated ?
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.
What ever players reason for being disappointe is could differ alot amd some well feel cheated because they reasonable was lead to belive that the game could deliver what they expected.
I did also get my 60 dollars worth of entertainment. And i don't feel cheated, but i feel disapointed so far. Mostly because the type of gamer i am, did actual get a much better game from GW1 and nothing prepared me for that.
I still have hope that in the end GW2 could get there where i get my expectation satisfied. But it require alot work and a change of focus, back to some of the qualities that was aboundant in GW1.
I can only agree whit that statement partially, the PvP side. I certainly miss TA, RA, GvG and even FA and QJ. I like WvW, but still think it will be good for all if they implement instanced small team PvPvE and more PvP game types. Let them build their E-Sport, but I guess most players dont really care about this and just want bigger variety.
While it is a great thing you got a decent amount of time from the money you spent. MMO's and Single player games can't be looked at in the same light. Here is another reason the B2P model shouldn't be done.
A single player game has a set amount of entertainment it has to offer. Once you hit that cap, the game is over and finished. You feel satisfied with your purchase because that is all you expected out of the game in the first place. An aside to occupy time with an interactive story.
MMO's are different in nature as they are a lasting enjoyment. When people drop money on an MMO, they expect it to occupy there time for a long period of time. Thats what the additional service costs are for. Now in GW2's defence they don't charge the premium so they have no obligation to extend your time in the game (B2P/F2P models have that luxury). Which is where I believe the "I feel cheated" sentiment is coming from.
If you look at the trend of MMO's, most in the last few years should have gone B2P or F2P to start. Thats why we are seeing them change business models now. The MMO's of today haven't been able to justify the subscription cost because they don't have the capability to sustain a players interest for long periods of time, at a time. Content can't keep up.
Whether we will see MMO's of old coming back that justify the subscription cost is yet to be seen. But I think with games like ArcheAge, WoD, Elder Scrolls Online (renewed faith after the video seen yesterday), and possibly EQ:Next from what Smedley has said of it (not that I believe a word he says)....we may see a return of premium AAA titles that do infact justify that sub price.
I think you are confusing cause and effect.
To justify a sub these days, games need to keep players playing all their free time every day. They also need to release content constantly.
Once a player stops playing a sub game, getting back will require a payment. That payment is a barrier. GW2 it is just a question of hitting the shortcut, you have nothing to lose.
In GW2, in a 2-3 hour session, I'm actually playing close to those 2-3 hours. In other games there will be much more waiting and running/riding around.
Additonally GW2 seems to be releasing content/special events at a steady space most sub MMOs don't exactly match - halloween, now lost shores event/permanent zone/end game dungeon, then wintersday... (In GW1 they also celebrated the Chinese new year with the Cantha introduction, but in GW2 there is no Cantha yet)..
Loads of chances for people log in and enjoy new content, spend some money in the cash shop.
So while they have no obligation to extend your play time, they actually do. Except they do by releasing new stuff not by wasting your time.
Really, people should actually time how much time they spend in games like WoW actually playing and how much is moving around/waiting/organizing groups.
Even in WoW that keeps a huge player base, it would be interesting to know how many actually play year long and those that return every few months.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
While it is a great thing you got a decent amount of time from the money you spent. MMO's and Single player games can't be looked at in the same light. Here is another reason the B2P model shouldn't be done.
A single player game has a set amount of entertainment it has to offer. Once you hit that cap, the game is over and finished. You feel satisfied with your purchase because that is all you expected out of the game in the first place. An aside to occupy time with an interactive story.
MMO's are different in nature as they are a lasting enjoyment. When people drop money on an MMO, they expect it to occupy there time for a long period of time. Thats what the additional service costs are for. Now in GW2's defence they don't charge the premium so they have no obligation to extend your time in the game (B2P/F2P models have that luxury). Which is where I believe the "I feel cheated" sentiment is coming from.
If you look at the trend of MMO's, most in the last few years should have gone B2P or F2P to start. Thats why we are seeing them change business models now. The MMO's of today haven't been able to justify the subscription cost because they don't have the capability to sustain a players interest for long periods of time, at a time. Content can't keep up.
Whether we will see MMO's of old coming back that justify the subscription cost is yet to be seen. But I think with games like ArcheAge, WoD, Elder Scrolls Online (renewed faith after the video seen yesterday), and possibly EQ:Next from what Smedley has said of it (not that I believe a word he says)....we may see a return of premium AAA titles that do infact justify that sub price.
I think you are confusing cause and effect.
To justify a sub these days, games need to keep players playing all their free time every day. They also need to release content constantly.
Not exactly. To Justify a sub, a game needs to be dropping content left and right (correct) which the only game to do that so far is RIFT. The game needs to basically stay ahead of its hardcore crowd (no newer MMO has accomplished this). An alternative is having content that doesn't need to be updated regurlarly because its player made (building homes, crafting, sieging/RvR etc.) . But we haven't seen a game like that from a AAA studio in about 10 years.
Once a player stops playing a sub game, getting back will require a payment. That payment is a barrier. GW2 it is just a question of hitting the shortcut, you have nothing to lose.
If a game had what I posted above it wouldn't be an issue at all because there would be adequet reason to stay with the game or come back to the game if a player left. The reasons people don't resub to games now, is because the reason they left is still sitting there at the games login screen.
In GW2, in a 2-3 hour session, I'm actually playing close to those 2-3 hours. In other games there will be much more waiting and running/riding around.
I dont see what your trying to get at here. When I play an MMO I am actually playing it as well. But this is an arguement for instant gratification that the younger crowd seems to feel entitled to over the older crowd that understand that a world was created for them to explore and enjoy.
Additonally GW2 seems to be releasing content/special events at a steady space most sub MMOs don't exactly match - halloween, now lost shores event/permanent zone/end game dungeon, then wintersday... (In GW1 they also celebrated the Chinese new year with the Cantha introduction, but in GW2 there is no Cantha yet)..
Just a plain false statement. I don't know how many sub MMO's you have played, but I have played just about every one of them out since 1999 and 90% of them have Holiday events. There are a lot of sub based MMO's that just have flat out more content than GW2 out the box. And the game that is dropping the most content consistently is a sub based game, RIFT (nobody has matched there content drops yet).
Loads of chances for people log in and enjoy new content, spend some money in the cash shop.
With all the free trials and limited access passes (Level ?? for free depending on the game), and veteran return promotions ( I get them daily just about), There are more than enough opportunities for the player to go back to the game and check out the new content.
So while they have no obligation to extend your play time, they actually do. Except they do by releasing new stuff not by wasting your time.
I dont see how any content drop could be considered "wasting your time"
Really, people should actually time how much time they spend in games like WoW actually playing and how much is moving around/waiting/organizing groups.
Considering WoW is pretty instant gratification, I would go as far to say that WoW is easier to get into and do something than GW2 is. They have LFR for pug raiding even.
Even in WoW that keeps a huge player base, it would be interesting to know how many actually play year long and those that return every few months.
Considering how many players WoW has one could take a stab and say that most of them stay subed or they would have numbers dipping and rising every month instead of a steady subscriber base.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
There are people who are going to be disappointed no matter what is provided by the game. There are people who are going to feel cheated no matter what. It is because those people feel cheated and are disappointed in general, and they are just looking for a game to blame for the cheated/disappointed feelings.
There are people who don't really understand or don't bother putting effort into finding out what a game is about, and so they're going to be disappointed that a game's features don't mesh with the features they assumed existed before they bought the game. For instance, the game isn't a sandbox, or other players can just walk up to you and kill you. The odds of these players not being happy is nearly 0.
Finally, you have people who didn't play the game and who just don't like the game, the company or they're just looking to waste some time. This is probably the smallest category, but in my mind, they are the most vocal.
I think most of the posters on these forums fall into those three categories. Of course, it's not really possible to determine if someone does or does not fall into one of those categories, but that's how it's setup in my head. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
No, that's a grind - the same type of pointless, soul-killing grind found in every other game out there. Lame. The game's two and a half months old, and quite a few people have had legendaries for a while. Not much of a long term goal, is it?
Meanwhile, WvW is a waste of time, real social elements are non-existent, and the gameworld is meaningless.
There's a reason why the game is bleeding players, spurring threads like this and others. The payment model is no excuse - an MMO that fails to keep players long term has always been considered a failure. In this, GW2 is no exception.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Although I agree with the OP I also agree with this. I am quitting because theres nothing of my interests to do any more.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
How do you explain all the "fans" whom did all that research and now posting that they are disappointed?
These kind of posts just try to place the blame on the players.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
+1
You know we debate and dissect every minute feature of every mmo on this site. From the moment it is announced, to 10+ years after release. To say you are duped or caught unaware is laughable. I know more about mmos Ive never played than a normal person
should.
Besides, accepting responsibility for how you spend your money and time is... well thats just what adults do.
The Players that did all that research and still felt cheated most likely should have done some research on themselves as well.
The time for realization is now indeed.
I feel a bit sorry for MMO-developers who are met with unreal expectations entierly based on every individual's one unique past feelings of "discovering my first real mmo".
Will christmas ever again feel like it did was when you were 7?
Will going to work every day ever feel like it did the first day of your first real job?
Are you waiting for Metallica to sound like they used to?
Guess why more recent MMO players are more exited about new games, and "fall for the hype"? They are you, back at that golden time.
Is it really the games fault that most players seems to play them for a month?
I still play GW2 after more than 300 hours, Rift on the other hand became boring after 12. That is not Rifts fault but mine, it felt like I played it and what it offered for endgame just wasnt my cup of tea.
GW2 is not badly designed long term, it just aint your typoe of long term game.
Then some games are just really badly done, or the devs thought they could use the same mechanics as Wow and EQ in sci-fi games which if it works is still far from optimal. Rift, GW2 and Tera all have worlds specifically made for the right mechanics and are well made, so if we dont like them it is our fault, the games just aint made for us. That goes really for TSW as well, but it could have been a bit better coded.
Saying that GW2 suck because it isnt Asherons call 3 is rather stupid (not that I would mind if Turbine actually made AC3), they arew different games and the fact that noone makes more classic kinds of MMOs is not GW2s fault.
GW2 is not perfect, far from it but it is well made and I think at least most of the players got out their $60, some of us got a lot more out of it.
I don't feel cheated, i've never felt cheated over any game i've bought, it's always been my choice to buy the game. As for GW2 i don't think many who don't share your love feel cheated they just feel it's not a very good game.
Time to except that not everyone like your game.You put 300 hours in, bully for you.
I lasted untl level 80 and had no desire to go through that senceless, lifeless unimaginative journey again. Strange isn't it, Ive palyed Vanguard for 5 plus years and have 5 atls, three are level 55.
Everytime i start another atl it feels like a new start but then Vanguards world is vast and i could stay in one area witout actually leveing until top level.
The great thing of GW2 is that you never know what you gonna get from your play session.
What started as a quick session after dinner to just get the last few things for the daily achievment ended in being a 3 hour long session.
It all started with "Lets go finish that Harathi Hinterlands (a mid level zone) while finishing the daily" and ended in event after event in the top right corner of that map where around 10 players just went raiding the centaur camps.
It progressed with bumping with some other players while I fetched the last 3 or 4 PoIs in the middle of centaur outposts scattered around the region, including one where I jumped in a water body to escape a Centaur Champion and being surrounded by 10 barracudas but fortunately 2 players materialized beside me.
Finaly the session ended with me saving some soldiers from spider coccoons while running to the last PoI and be pursued by a ton of spiders that kept popping as I trashed each coccoon. That triggered the Gargantum spider event, but I saw no players so I just kept going to the PoI. Then I shouted in map that the event was up. Another warrior shown up and was bashing the champion spider while I "tanked" it with my Mace/Shield healing shouts spec. The other warrior went down a few times so I had to rezz him. An elementalist soon appeared and the Spider went down after losing interest in me and keep focusing on the other warrior.
I didn't plan any of that - just wanted some gatherings and a couple of different mob kills for the daily.
That is why I like in GW2 - wandering around with no long term goals (eventually legenday weapons will happen, but it isn't a focused effort).
300+ hours and counting, and of that 250 is only in the warrior.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
With LotRO Lifetime Account... =P
Got me 292 days (=3504 hours) of gameplay for 150 bucks, all expansions for free via cash shop points and still running...
M
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I feel cheated because of this....
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Perpetual-bar-brawl-what-happened-to-it
I hate it when devs make false promises. Only difference is that FC not only made false promises but went one step ahead and printed it on back of the box. Devs need to stop fooling their player base.
They bought game because of some internet evangelist and their imagination was running wild. They they colide with hard reality. Something like that.
People who knew what to expect got what we paid for and I'm glad I did. Everyone else - screw them.
Actually thank them for paying and not using bandwidth (although bandwidth is pennies).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Hehe yeah... actually, the more... how to put that without getting infracted? "funny"? - actually, the more "funny" ones are those who were already bashing the game big time during the whole beta, and STILL bought the game... I guess to be able to complain more about a game they already knew was not for them. I thank those people for giving their money to ANet and for supporting the game I enjoy - they know who they are ;-)
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Thats pure gold right there.
First theres a guy asking simple thing "where is this feature"
then comes forum troll coling hijacking his thread "halloween is coming"
then comes his alter egos and viral marketers "im so excited,way to go colin"
then people are like "amazing Anet"
and soon people are like "but where is those bar fights?? "
Let's internet
While it is a great thing you got a decent amount of time from the money you spent. MMO's and Single player games can't be looked at in the same light. Here is another reason the B2P model shouldn't be done.
A single player game has a set amount of entertainment it has to offer. Once you hit that cap, the game is over and finished. You feel satisfied with your purchase because that is all you expected out of the game in the first place. An aside to occupy time with an interactive story.
MMO's are different in nature as they are a lasting enjoyment. When people drop money on an MMO, they expect it to occupy there time for a long period of time. Thats what the additional service costs are for. Now in GW2's defence they don't charge the premium so they have no obligation to extend your time in the game (B2P/F2P models have that luxury). Which is where I believe the "I feel cheated" sentiment is coming from.
If you look at the trend of MMO's, most in the last few years should have gone B2P or F2P to start. Thats why we are seeing them change business models now. The MMO's of today haven't been able to justify the subscription cost because they don't have the capability to sustain a players interest for long periods of time, at a time. Content can't keep up.
Whether we will see MMO's of old coming back that justify the subscription cost is yet to be seen. But I think with games like ArcheAge, WoD, Elder Scrolls Online (renewed faith after the video seen yesterday), and possibly EQ:Next from what Smedley has said of it (not that I believe a word he says)....we may see a return of premium AAA titles that do infact justify that sub price.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
A poo-poo platter,
lol.
Best post I've read in a while.
I think with mmorpgs - if you sink 300 hours into a game, you may have got your money, but if you end it there, you feel that those 300 hours did not meet the expectation of a mmorpg, that is 3 hrs, 30 hrs, 300 hrs, 3000 hrs - the virtual world is always interesting in some way.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
What ever players reason for being disappointe is could differ alot amd some well feel cheated because they reasonable was lead to belive that the game could deliver what they expected.
I did also get my 60 dollars worth of entertainment. And i don't feel cheated, but i feel disapointed so far. Mostly because the type of gamer i am, did actual get a much better game from GW1 and nothing prepared me for that.
I still have hope that in the end GW2 could get there where i get my expectation satisfied. But it require alot work and a change of focus, back to some of the qualities that was aboundant in GW1.
I can only agree whit that statement partially, the PvP side. I certainly miss TA, RA, GvG and even FA and QJ. I like WvW, but still think it will be good for all if they implement instanced small team PvPvE and more PvP game types. Let them build their E-Sport, but I guess most players dont really care about this and just want bigger variety.
Also disapointed how Dungeons turned to be.
I think you are confusing cause and effect.
To justify a sub these days, games need to keep players playing all their free time every day. They also need to release content constantly.
Once a player stops playing a sub game, getting back will require a payment. That payment is a barrier. GW2 it is just a question of hitting the shortcut, you have nothing to lose.
In GW2, in a 2-3 hour session, I'm actually playing close to those 2-3 hours. In other games there will be much more waiting and running/riding around.
Additonally GW2 seems to be releasing content/special events at a steady space most sub MMOs don't exactly match - halloween, now lost shores event/permanent zone/end game dungeon, then wintersday... (In GW1 they also celebrated the Chinese new year with the Cantha introduction, but in GW2 there is no Cantha yet)..
Loads of chances for people log in and enjoy new content, spend some money in the cash shop.
So while they have no obligation to extend your play time, they actually do. Except they do by releasing new stuff not by wasting your time.
Really, people should actually time how much time they spend in games like WoW actually playing and how much is moving around/waiting/organizing groups.
Even in WoW that keeps a huge player base, it would be interesting to know how many actually play year long and those that return every few months.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
There are people who are going to be disappointed no matter what is provided by the game. There are people who are going to feel cheated no matter what. It is because those people feel cheated and are disappointed in general, and they are just looking for a game to blame for the cheated/disappointed feelings.
There are people who don't really understand or don't bother putting effort into finding out what a game is about, and so they're going to be disappointed that a game's features don't mesh with the features they assumed existed before they bought the game. For instance, the game isn't a sandbox, or other players can just walk up to you and kill you. The odds of these players not being happy is nearly 0.
Finally, you have people who didn't play the game and who just don't like the game, the company or they're just looking to waste some time. This is probably the smallest category, but in my mind, they are the most vocal.
I think most of the posters on these forums fall into those three categories. Of course, it's not really possible to determine if someone does or does not fall into one of those categories, but that's how it's setup in my head.
:-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.