Originally posted by jaiceafThese systems are why people began playing EQ in the first place, and why EQ is still going strong today! Death matters, immersion of character in the game world was seemless. If you don't think fans of the EVERQUEST franchines are going to line up in droves to do open world pvp with the granddaddy of themepark design, you are even more sadly mistaken sir.
Nope. The reason people play EQ was because there weren't many choices. If WOW was available then, I wouldn't be playing EQ for a year.Going strong? It peaked at what? 500k?Personally, if the new EQ is pvp centric with open world pvp, i will pass .. even if it is F2P.
Yep. People basically had an early choice of EQ(99), UO(97), AC(99) or Lineage(98). AO, DAoC, and Runescape came a couple years later along with others, and that's when choices started happening. WoW didn't come along until around 5 years later. By that time people had a lot of choice. If EQ was that great WoW wouldn't have pulled the rug out from under it.
before wow the entire mmo community was much different and not main stream like it is now and EQ was the top dog (here in the states at least).
people played it for so long much like the reason people still play wow, because of their friends and guild mates that also still play.
It might have been top dog even during DAoC's and AO's first runs, but it still lost well over 1.5 milion subsribers long before WoW ever came out. That loss of subscribers is what led to the development of EQ2, to try and catch all of those more casually oriented gamers who couldn't stand the hardcore nature of early EQ.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.
Actually that would just make company would never get money from me. Simple as that. At the end is their decision.
And that woudl make the company get my money. Simple as that. At the end is their decision.
Difficulty levels work well in WOW, and Diablo 3 (in fact, i check, D3 xfire usage has gone UP after 1.05 which puts in monster power system allowing people to choose difficulty).
I always choose a better GAME over a world. "world feel" means nothing to me if it is an obstacle to fun and my abilities to play with others.
I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.
Fear of death and corpse running is half the fun! Sure you might not have time for it, but I'd rather be scared than not care, and do my best to avoid death. With greater risk and penalties, the greater outcome should you succeed in something dangerous.
I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.
Fear of death and corpse running is half the fun! Sure you might not have time for it, but I'd rather be scared than not care, and do my best to avoid death. With greater risk and penalties, the greater outcome should you succeed in something dangerous.
Not fun for me.
Wiping and wasting time is bad enough. Replaying lost xp is just horrible. Having said that, i suppose i really don't care if a game has a hardcore option for those who want a stiff death penalty, as long as i don't have to deal with it.
I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.
Fear of death and corpse running is half the fun! Sure you might not have time for it, but I'd rather be scared than not care, and do my best to avoid death. With greater risk and penalties, the greater outcome should you succeed in something dangerous.
I've never had any fear of death in a game. There was always the challenge of not dying in the first place. Therefore CR were never part of the fun, just an annoyance.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
weak death penalties kill the thrill and sense of adventure in MMOs.
im a casual player and i still want what little time i can get playing to be exciting and thrilling and fantasy packed! does that mean there needs to be pointless timesinks? no. i loved alot about EQ.. the group dynamics, the huge open world, and the danger. there needs to be danger... NOT JUST A PUNY REPAIR BILL.
that said... EQ1 had incredible timesinks that I would not want to see in EQNext. but corpse runs is not one of them; corpse runs were an important danger to delving deep into the dungeons of Everquest.. loved it. losing experience.. or maybe some other important "currency" like maybe the player's "God Favor Pts" or something would be cool too. maybe if a player goes a long time withOUT dying he builds up "Divine Favor Points" so that the next time he dies he will be resurrected by his chosen God. that would give POSITIVE reinforcement for playing well... and then lead to the sliding scale of NEGATIVE reinforcement for playing poorly as the player needs to corpse run.
anything ANYTHING but the ludicrously lame system that GW2 has.. omfg badbadbadbad. when you die you get a minor repair bill and you instantly resurrect and just run back at the boss over and over.. its so fuking retarded i want to slap the developers.
Yes let's all be apes, no see no hear no listen let EQnext be a wow clone, isn't that what you all nay sayers are saying?
God please stop this, Is it so damn hard for some of you guys to understand that some of us are fed up up with solo clone after solo clone after solo clone.
Yes I do play GW2 and YES It is a solo clone, why I bought it and enjoy it for the WvWVW, no quest hubs, for the exploration, the fun of finding a jumping puzzle, the fun of doing DE should I be labled as a defender of carebear games while advocating hardcore games like some dude keeps throwing at my face every time he gets the chance?
You see, I am tired of the same old same old, I need the old feeling again, the feeling of true challenge, not half asleep playing while watching TV.
I don't give a flying fuck if you have a wife,child,work, there is HUGE amount of games for you to play, but please don't jump in here and say you wan't it easy beacuse you have grown up.
Waiting on the GW2 nitficking to derail my whole post.
Yes let's all be apes, no see no hear no listen let EQnext be a wow clone, isn't that what you all nay sayers are saying?
God please stop this, Is it so damn hard for some of you guys to understand that some of us are fed up up with solo clone after solo clone after solo clone.
Yes I do play GW2 and YES It is a solo clone, why I bought it and enjoy it for the WvWVW, no quest hubs, for the exploration, the fun of finding a jumping puzzle, the fun of doing DE should I be labled as a defender of carebear games while advocating hardcore games like some dude keeps throwing at my face every time he gets the chance?
You see, I am tired of the same old same old, I need the old feeling again, the feeling of true challenge, not half asleep playing while watching TV.
I don't give a flying fuck if you have a wife,child,work, there is HUGE amount of games for you to play, but please don't jump in here and say you wan't it easy beacuse you have grown up.
You get it! SOMEONE GETS IT!!!!
I don't understand why they demand all the games to be the same. Why can't one be different? They already have almost ALL the other games. They don't care for any of them that much, which is why they are always bitching and whining and wanting new games to be the same as their old. They are tired of their old games yet want the new ones to be the same?!?!? Where is the logic in that!??! These idiots don't know a good game because they have never played one. They wouldn't be on here talking about how other games are and should be if they had played a good one. When I was playing UO or DAOC back in their days before they made horrible choices, I never thought much of other games. Why? Because those games were awesome. Then you have the one joker on here who things MMO's should be converted to Diablo 3..... FFS people. Games don't need to be remakes of the ones I always mention, but they CANNOT be like the other ones. Having a punished death is a small start.
Almost EVERYONE one on here has never played a FFA full loot PvP, let alone a real open world PvP game, OR even a game with real death penalties. Yet they are all so against those options before even trying it. Then again, these are also the same people who think F2P is good and Diablo 3 is gods answer to MMO's hAhahAHAhAH.
Players must be punished for all their crimes against good MMORPG's in the past 8 years. Bring it!
Make death as it should be ... an extremely undesirable outcome, caused by poor decisions (or old age).
The only thing at this point to drive me away from EQNext is if it turns out to be another WoW EZ mode clone, or if it's another anti-social casual craptastic game like GW2.
Yes let's all be apes, no see no hear no listen let EQnext be a wow clone, isn't that what you all nay sayers are saying?
God please stop this, Is it so damn hard for some of you guys to understand that some of us are fed up up with solo clone after solo clone after solo clone.
Yes I do play GW2 and YES It is a solo clone, why I bought it and enjoy it for the WvWVW, no quest hubs, for the exploration, the fun of finding a jumping puzzle, the fun of doing DE should I be labled as a defender of carebear games while advocating hardcore games like some dude keeps throwing at my face every time he gets the chance?
You see, I am tired of the same old same old, I need the old feeling again, the feeling of true challenge, not half asleep playing while watching TV.
I don't give a flying fuck if you have a wife,child,work, there is HUGE amount of games for you to play, but please don't jump in here and say you wan't it easy beacuse you have grown up.
You get it! SOMEONE GETS IT!!!!
I don't understand why they demand all the games to be the same. Why can't one be different? They already have almost ALL the other games. They don't care for any of them that much, which is why they are always bitching and whining and wanting new games to be the same as their old. They are tired of their old games yet want the new ones to be the same?!?!? Where is the logic in that!??! These idiots don't know a good game because they have never played one. They wouldn't be on here talking about how other games are and should be if they had played a good one. When I was playing UO or DAOC back in their days before they made horrible choices, I never thought much of other games. Why? Because those games were awesome. Then you have the one joker on here who things MMO's should be converted to Diablo 3..... FFS people. Games don't need to be remakes of the ones I always mention, but they CANNOT be like the other ones. Having a punished death is a small start.
Almost EVERYONE one on here has never played a FFA full loot PvP, let alone a real open world PvP game, OR even a game with real death penalties. Yet they are all so against those options before even trying it. Then again, these are also the same people who think F2P is good and Diablo 3 is gods answer to MMO's hAhahAHAhAH.
I think most people on this board have tried FFAPVP and/or open world pvp.
And the argument goes both ways. Many may be clamoring for what EQnext should be but there was an equal if not more amount clamoring for how every other game should be.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by OgreRaper I would like it to be more harsh than WoW. But not such a punishing death penalty that it makes me just wanna quit playing.
There is a fine line. Back in UO I would die, lose a lot, and get so frustrated I'd yell out loud and have to walk away from the PC. Only to come back later and think of a better way to accomplish my goal. It made me want to beat it! Difference is, I am applying this to a game where you set your own goals.
In today's current games a death punishment could be a big negative. Why? Because you don't set goals anymore. You are working on pre-defined quests all to reach an end game (which is also stupid IMO). So if you can't beat such and such quest to continue... yeah you want to quit. In UO I could go do something else if I really wanted to and then come back to it later. Plus, since it was one big open world, every time I went back I never knew if I'd be in the same situation (damn pkers lol). Now a days you can farm mobs, or repeat another quest. All so you can reach the almighty end game and repeat some raids endlessly! WOOT WOOT!!!
Step 3: Watch movie/make sandwhich leave computer for 3 minutes
Step 4: Come back to computer, loot mob. Repeat step 1.
Really? I would LOVE for you to give us a good list of what you just said.. What class did you play, what zones and what mobs did you auto attack while AFK? We'll be waiting
Yes let's all be apes, no see no hear no listen let EQnext be a wow clone, isn't that what you all nay sayers are saying?
God please stop this, Is it so damn hard for some of you guys to understand that some of us are fed up up with solo clone after solo clone after solo clone.
Yes I do play GW2 and YES It is a solo clone, why I bought it and enjoy it for the WvWVW, no quest hubs, for the exploration, the fun of finding a jumping puzzle, the fun of doing DE should I be labled as a defender of carebear games while advocating hardcore games like some dude keeps throwing at my face every time he gets the chance?
You see, I am tired of the same old same old, I need the old feeling again, the feeling of true challenge, not half asleep playing while watching TV.
I don't give a flying fuck if you have a wife,child,work, there is HUGE amount of games for you to play, but please don't jump in here and say you wan't it easy beacuse you have grown up.
You get it! SOMEONE GETS IT!!!!
I don't understand why they demand all the games to be the same. Why can't one be different? They already have almost ALL the other games. They don't care for any of them that much, which is why they are always bitching and whining and wanting new games to be the same as their old. They are tired of their old games yet want the new ones to be the same?!?!? Where is the logic in that!??! These idiots don't know a good game because they have never played one. They wouldn't be on here talking about how other games are and should be if they had played a good one. When I was playing UO or DAOC back in their days before they made horrible choices, I never thought much of other games. Why? Because those games were awesome. Then you have the one joker on here who things MMO's should be converted to Diablo 3..... FFS people. Games don't need to be remakes of the ones I always mention, but they CANNOT be like the other ones. Having a punished death is a small start.
Almost EVERYONE one on here has never played a FFA full loot PvP, let alone a real open world PvP game, OR even a game with real death penalties. Yet they are all so against those options before even trying it. Then again, these are also the same people who think F2P is good and Diablo 3 is gods answer to MMO's hAhahAHAhAH.
I think most people on this board have tried FFAPVP and/or open world pvp.
And the argument goes both ways. Many may be clamoring for what EQnext should be but there was an equal if not more amount clamoring for how every other game should be.
I disagree. You can simply look at the amount of people who admit to starting with WoW. Nothing wrong with that AT ALL in my opinion. However, that does mean they didn't get to try a real FFA PVP game. Wow's version of open PvP was half-hearted. AoC's was a bit fun, but again, not the same. Either way, PvP is off topic and I shouldn't of brought it up.
The main issue at hand here is change. And that is regarding death penalties, of which WoW nor any other modern game has. Well they do, but they aren't real ones. Heck, armour damage is piddly lol.
And people do argue how games should be, but you neglect to notice that the overwhelming majority of people on here want all the games to be the same. They then finish that game when it comes out, and ask for the next game to be the same, all the while making excuses as to why the previous clone didn't work. They keep doing the same thing over and over and getting the same damn results.
Step 3: Watch movie/make sandwhich leave computer for 3 minutes
Step 4: Come back to computer, loot mob. Repeat step 1.
Really? I would LOVE for you to give us a good list of what you just said.. What class did you play, what zones and what mobs did you auto attack while AFK? We'll be waiting
Monk, Paladin mostly for leveling like that. Bard required twisting so you couldn't do that, till they brought in /melody. Played for 3 years, started right after Kunark. Left just after LDON. Came back several times over the years. Never got into raids, but all the leveling zones.
Once the bard got melody it was easier (that wasn't till 04 though). Zones were gfay, lfay, commonlands, Ro, Oasis, IC, EW, GD, WW, OT, FM, LOIO, FoB. You name it you could level that way in. Casters of course couldn't.
But don't kid yourself. Other than later raids (after Gates of Discord so I'm told) EQ was not hard. There were only 2-3 mellee abilities per character and 8 spells that you would not all use in a fight. Abilities were on timers. There was often nothing more a melle could do other than auto attack and kick. Blue mobs were simple.
There wasn't anything more difficult than that.
But bard twisting was kind of fun before they nerfed swarm kiting. Strapping on a pair of drums, agrroing all the giants in the FM giant castle and circle dotting them. So much fun
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Step 3: Watch movie/make sandwhich leave computer for 3 minutes
Step 4: Come back to computer, loot mob. Repeat step 1.
Really? I would LOVE for you to give us a good list of what you just said.. What class did you play, what zones and what mobs did you auto attack while AFK? We'll be waiting
Monk, Paladin mostly for leveling like that. Bard required twisting so you couldn't do that, till they brought in /melody. Played for 3 years, started right after Kunark. Left just after LDON. Never got into raids, but all the leveling zones.
Once the bard got melody it was easier. Zones were gfay, lfay, commonlands, Ro, Oasis, IC, EW, GD, WW, OT, FM, LOIO, FoB. You name it you could level that way in. Casters of course couldn't.
But don't kid yourself. Other than later raids (after Gates of Discord so I'm told) EQ was not hard. There were only 2-3 mellee abilities per character and 8 spells that you would not all use in a fight. And the abilities all had timers on them. There was often nothing more you could do except auto attack/kick/ Blue mobs were simple.
There wasn't anything more difficult than that.
But bard twisting was kind of fun before they nerfed swarm kiting. Strapping on a pair of drums, agrroing all the giants in the FM giant castle and circle dotting them. So much fun
You could do that on most characters at those lower levels & zones. But it was risk vs reward, so to do something other than the lowest possible blues, you'd have to be more attentive. Be it kiting, heals, whatever. Just killing the lowest possible blues was pretty lousy XP, and very slow. (1/1000th of a level per kill?)
Bards, casters could up the xp gain from cruddy blues by multi kiting. Essentially at higher levels you could no longer just stand there and auto attack while afk'ish.
Step 3: Watch movie/make sandwhich leave computer for 3 minutes
Step 4: Come back to computer, loot mob. Repeat step 1.
Really? I would LOVE for you to give us a good list of what you just said.. What class did you play, what zones and what mobs did you auto attack while AFK? We'll be waiting
Monk, Paladin mostly for leveling like that. Bard required twisting so you couldn't do that, till they brought in /melody. Played for 3 years, started right after Kunark. Left just after LDON. Never got into raids, but all the leveling zones.
Once the bard got melody it was easier. Zones were gfay, lfay, commonlands, Ro, Oasis, IC, EW, GD, WW, OT, FM, LOIO, FoB. You name it you could level that way in. Casters of course couldn't.
But don't kid yourself. Other than later raids (after Gates of Discord so I'm told) EQ was not hard. There were only 2-3 mellee abilities per character and 8 spells that you would not all use in a fight. And the abilities all had timers on them. There was often nothing more you could do except auto attack/kick/ Blue mobs were simple.
There wasn't anything more difficult than that.
But bard twisting was kind of fun before they nerfed swarm kiting. Strapping on a pair of drums, agrroing all the giants in the FM giant castle and circle dotting them. So much fun
You could do that on most characters at those lower levels & zones. But it was risk vs reward, so to do something other than the lowest possible blues, you'd have to be more attentive. Be it kiting, heals, whatever. Just killing the lowest possible blues was pretty lousy XP, and very slow. (1/1000th of a level per kill?)
Bards, casters could up the xp gain from cruddy blues by multi kiting. Essentially at higher levels you could no longer just stand there and auto attack while afk'ish.
Not light blues. Dark blues. This wasn't casters so there wasn't kiting (except bard early on). You could solo to max level (was 60 or 65 back then I believe). My highest was 54, just got bored by then.
and OMG hell levels were just that.
Actually I started with a druid, only got him to mid 30's though. It was fun, just far too much down time. Quad kite, med for 5-10 minutes, quad kite med for 5-10 minutes. Having to sit high on the hills on the zone edges to escape wandering mobs because I couldn't see for the darn book.
Those are two things I'm glad they changed. Mana regen faster, and got rid of the damn book for medding. The book really was a stupid idea.
edit - and jsut for clarity I did not play that way (leave computer ) while playing the druid. That was again suicide.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.
Fear of death and corpse running is half the fun! Sure you might not have time for it, but I'd rather be scared than not care, and do my best to avoid death. With greater risk and penalties, the greater outcome should you succeed in something dangerous.
I've never had any fear of death in a game. There was always the challenge of not dying in the first place. Therefore CR were never part of the fun, just an annoyance.
You have found right word, annoyance. Agree in full. I hate to die in game and will do everything possible to avoid. And I'm in pretty bad mood when happen, especially if some my stupid mistake. Even when I know I will die I never (ok, maybe once or twice :-)) just stand there ... I always try to drag with me at least one mob more.
Death penalty would add absolutely nothing but big annoyance. Has nothing to do with thrill or anything, just pure big boring annoyance.
I want a game that punishes bad decisions. Look at the majority of what we have.. Just zerg attack. Slight time sink in returning to your corpse.. Thats it.. I dont want my finger cut off, but I want to feel like surviving matters. enough with no real pain on death. if you dont have time for a harsh penalty, dont play. Lots of other games for you. I am not hardcore, but I want to see failure, matter.
Punish death, it adds dimension to a game, , hell even Mario had death penalty, what 3-4 lives game over,, make us recover corpses, either by runnen in and sntaching, corpse drag, or high cost Corps summoning( based on lvl)
Originally posted by Random_mage I want a game that punishes bad decisions. Look at the majority of what we have.. Just zerg attack. Slight time sink in returning to your corpse.. Thats it.. I dont want my finger cut off, but I want to feel like surviving matters. enough with no real pain on death. if you dont have time for a harsh penalty, dont play. Lots of other games for you. I am not hardcore, but I want to see failure, matter.
I see you do not understand other at all. Has nothing to do with time, has to do with boredom.
But make no mistake, I have absolutely nothing if game would have perma death penalty. Just I would not play it. And would advocate strongly agains games i love to play. Simple as that.
I do not care not even minimally for pvp. Once even liked but not anymore. For this reason I would never bother with pvp only games. I'm happy for those that enjoy such game.
Btw, failer for me matter, for pride factor. :-)) I was so angry once that had to buy new keyboard. :-) But I agree, somebody does not care, die, return, ... fortunately usually such players does not stay around any game for long. And my guess is is much more likeli to find reckless players in f2p games.
Originally posted by Random_mage I want a game that punishes bad decisions. Look at the majority of what we have.. Just zerg attack. Slight time sink in returning to your corpse.. Thats it.. I dont want my finger cut off, but I want to feel like surviving matters. enough with no real pain on death. if you dont have time for a harsh penalty, dont play. Lots of other games for you. I am not hardcore, but I want to see failure, matter.
i really dont think your going to see this in eq next. Those days are gone and players went to other games for a reason. Im not saying theres not an audience, its just not as big as they need to fill the game.
i still say they need to have a very well thought out "speccable" death system that involves the gods such that you can pick and choose aspects of your death penalty, and do it in a way that makes sense in the lore of the game.
Remember that they want to put the rules in the hands of the players in eq next. They wont be able to do that without putting in some ability for customization in a number of ingame systems.
Comments
It might have been top dog even during DAoC's and AO's first runs, but it still lost well over 1.5 milion subsribers long before WoW ever came out. That loss of subscribers is what led to the development of EQ2, to try and catch all of those more casually oriented gamers who couldn't stand the hardcore nature of early EQ.
And that woudl make the company get my money. Simple as that. At the end is their decision.
Difficulty levels work well in WOW, and Diablo 3 (in fact, i check, D3 xfire usage has gone UP after 1.05 which puts in monster power system allowing people to choose difficulty).
I always choose a better GAME over a world. "world feel" means nothing to me if it is an obstacle to fun and my abilities to play with others.
Fear of death and corpse running is half the fun! Sure you might not have time for it, but I'd rather be scared than not care, and do my best to avoid death. With greater risk and penalties, the greater outcome should you succeed in something dangerous.
Not fun for me.
Wiping and wasting time is bad enough. Replaying lost xp is just horrible. Having said that, i suppose i really don't care if a game has a hardcore option for those who want a stiff death penalty, as long as i don't have to deal with it.
I've never had any fear of death in a game. There was always the challenge of not dying in the first place. Therefore CR were never part of the fun, just an annoyance.
yes yes and yes...
weak death penalties kill the thrill and sense of adventure in MMOs.
im a casual player and i still want what little time i can get playing to be exciting and thrilling and fantasy packed! does that mean there needs to be pointless timesinks? no. i loved alot about EQ.. the group dynamics, the huge open world, and the danger. there needs to be danger... NOT JUST A PUNY REPAIR BILL.
that said... EQ1 had incredible timesinks that I would not want to see in EQNext. but corpse runs is not one of them; corpse runs were an important danger to delving deep into the dungeons of Everquest.. loved it. losing experience.. or maybe some other important "currency" like maybe the player's "God Favor Pts" or something would be cool too. maybe if a player goes a long time withOUT dying he builds up "Divine Favor Points" so that the next time he dies he will be resurrected by his chosen God. that would give POSITIVE reinforcement for playing well... and then lead to the sliding scale of NEGATIVE reinforcement for playing poorly as the player needs to corpse run.
anything ANYTHING but the ludicrously lame system that GW2 has.. omfg badbadbadbad. when you die you get a minor repair bill and you instantly resurrect and just run back at the boss over and over.. its so fuking retarded i want to slap the developers.
Yes let's all be apes, no see no hear no listen let EQnext be a wow clone, isn't that what you all nay sayers are saying?
God please stop this, Is it so damn hard for some of you guys to understand that some of us are fed up up with solo clone after solo clone after solo clone.
Yes I do play GW2 and YES It is a solo clone, why I bought it and enjoy it for the WvWVW, no quest hubs, for the exploration, the fun of finding a jumping puzzle, the fun of doing DE should I be labled as a defender of carebear games while advocating hardcore games like some dude keeps throwing at my face every time he gets the chance?
You see, I am tired of the same old same old, I need the old feeling again, the feeling of true challenge, not half asleep playing while watching TV.
I don't give a flying fuck if you have a wife,child,work, there is HUGE amount of games for you to play, but please don't jump in here and say you wan't it easy beacuse you have grown up.
Waiting on the GW2 nitficking to derail my whole post.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I used to watch movies while playing EQ.
Step 1: Find blue mob in safe area.
Step 2: Press auto attack
Step 3: Watch movie/make sandwhich leave computer for 3 minutes
Step 4: Come back to computer, loot mob. Repeat step 1.
You get it! SOMEONE GETS IT!!!!
I don't understand why they demand all the games to be the same. Why can't one be different? They already have almost ALL the other games. They don't care for any of them that much, which is why they are always bitching and whining and wanting new games to be the same as their old. They are tired of their old games yet want the new ones to be the same?!?!? Where is the logic in that!??! These idiots don't know a good game because they have never played one. They wouldn't be on here talking about how other games are and should be if they had played a good one. When I was playing UO or DAOC back in their days before they made horrible choices, I never thought much of other games. Why? Because those games were awesome. Then you have the one joker on here who things MMO's should be converted to Diablo 3..... FFS people. Games don't need to be remakes of the ones I always mention, but they CANNOT be like the other ones. Having a punished death is a small start.
Almost EVERYONE one on here has never played a FFA full loot PvP, let alone a real open world PvP game, OR even a game with real death penalties. Yet they are all so against those options before even trying it. Then again, these are also the same people who think F2P is good and Diablo 3 is gods answer to MMO's hAhahAHAhAH.
Players must be punished for all their crimes against good MMORPG's in the past 8 years. Bring it!
Make death as it should be ... an extremely undesirable outcome, caused by poor decisions (or old age).
The only thing at this point to drive me away from EQNext is if it turns out to be another WoW EZ mode clone, or if it's another anti-social casual craptastic game like GW2.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
I think most people on this board have tried FFAPVP and/or open world pvp.
And the argument goes both ways. Many may be clamoring for what EQnext should be but there was an equal if not more amount clamoring for how every other game should be.
There is a fine line. Back in UO I would die, lose a lot, and get so frustrated I'd yell out loud and have to walk away from the PC. Only to come back later and think of a better way to accomplish my goal. It made me want to beat it! Difference is, I am applying this to a game where you set your own goals.
In today's current games a death punishment could be a big negative. Why? Because you don't set goals anymore. You are working on pre-defined quests all to reach an end game (which is also stupid IMO). So if you can't beat such and such quest to continue... yeah you want to quit. In UO I could go do something else if I really wanted to and then come back to it later. Plus, since it was one big open world, every time I went back I never knew if I'd be in the same situation (damn pkers lol). Now a days you can farm mobs, or repeat another quest. All so you can reach the almighty end game and repeat some raids endlessly! WOOT WOOT!!!
Really? I would LOVE for you to give us a good list of what you just said.. What class did you play, what zones and what mobs did you auto attack while AFK? We'll be waiting
I disagree. You can simply look at the amount of people who admit to starting with WoW. Nothing wrong with that AT ALL in my opinion. However, that does mean they didn't get to try a real FFA PVP game. Wow's version of open PvP was half-hearted. AoC's was a bit fun, but again, not the same. Either way, PvP is off topic and I shouldn't of brought it up.
The main issue at hand here is change. And that is regarding death penalties, of which WoW nor any other modern game has. Well they do, but they aren't real ones. Heck, armour damage is piddly lol.
And people do argue how games should be, but you neglect to notice that the overwhelming majority of people on here want all the games to be the same. They then finish that game when it comes out, and ask for the next game to be the same, all the while making excuses as to why the previous clone didn't work. They keep doing the same thing over and over and getting the same damn results.
EQ next!! who want punishing death?
If its worthy to stay alive in there,sure.
Let's internet
me!me!me!me! **raises hand** i 4 one would love to see punishing death ..it wouldnt be anything like old EQ without it!
Monk, Paladin mostly for leveling like that. Bard required twisting so you couldn't do that, till they brought in /melody. Played for 3 years, started right after Kunark. Left just after LDON. Came back several times over the years. Never got into raids, but all the leveling zones.
Once the bard got melody it was easier (that wasn't till 04 though). Zones were gfay, lfay, commonlands, Ro, Oasis, IC, EW, GD, WW, OT, FM, LOIO, FoB. You name it you could level that way in. Casters of course couldn't.
But don't kid yourself. Other than later raids (after Gates of Discord so I'm told) EQ was not hard. There were only 2-3 mellee abilities per character and 8 spells that you would not all use in a fight. Abilities were on timers. There was often nothing more a melle could do other than auto attack and kick. Blue mobs were simple.
There wasn't anything more difficult than that.
But bard twisting was kind of fun before they nerfed swarm kiting. Strapping on a pair of drums, agrroing all the giants in the FM giant castle and circle dotting them. So much fun
You could do that on most characters at those lower levels & zones. But it was risk vs reward, so to do something other than the lowest possible blues, you'd have to be more attentive. Be it kiting, heals, whatever. Just killing the lowest possible blues was pretty lousy XP, and very slow. (1/1000th of a level per kill?)
Bards, casters could up the xp gain from cruddy blues by multi kiting. Essentially at higher levels you could no longer just stand there and auto attack while afk'ish.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Not light blues. Dark blues. This wasn't casters so there wasn't kiting (except bard early on). You could solo to max level (was 60 or 65 back then I believe). My highest was 54, just got bored by then.
and OMG hell levels were just that.
Actually I started with a druid, only got him to mid 30's though. It was fun, just far too much down time. Quad kite, med for 5-10 minutes, quad kite med for 5-10 minutes. Having to sit high on the hills on the zone edges to escape wandering mobs because I couldn't see for the darn book.
Those are two things I'm glad they changed. Mana regen faster, and got rid of the damn book for medding. The book really was a stupid idea.
edit - and jsut for clarity I did not play that way (leave computer ) while playing the druid. That was again suicide.
You have found right word, annoyance. Agree in full. I hate to die in game and will do everything possible to avoid. And I'm in pretty bad mood when happen, especially if some my stupid mistake. Even when I know I will die I never (ok, maybe once or twice :-)) just stand there ... I always try to drag with me at least one mob more.
Death penalty would add absolutely nothing but big annoyance. Has nothing to do with thrill or anything, just pure big boring annoyance.
if you dont have time for a harsh penalty, dont play. Lots of other games for you. I am not hardcore, but I want to see failure, matter.
Currently playing Real Life..
http://i36.tinypic.com/2uyod3k.gif
For all your stalking needs..
http://www.plurk.com/Random_
Punish death, it adds dimension to a game, , hell even Mario had death penalty, what 3-4 lives game over,, make us recover corpses, either by runnen in and sntaching, corpse drag, or high cost Corps summoning( based on lvl)
I see you do not understand other at all. Has nothing to do with time, has to do with boredom.
But make no mistake, I have absolutely nothing if game would have perma death penalty. Just I would not play it. And would advocate strongly agains games i love to play. Simple as that.
I do not care not even minimally for pvp. Once even liked but not anymore. For this reason I would never bother with pvp only games. I'm happy for those that enjoy such game.
Btw, failer for me matter, for pride factor. :-)) I was so angry once that had to buy new keyboard. :-) But I agree, somebody does not care, die, return, ... fortunately usually such players does not stay around any game for long. And my guess is is much more likeli to find reckless players in f2p games.
i really dont think your going to see this in eq next. Those days are gone and players went to other games for a reason. Im not saying theres not an audience, its just not as big as they need to fill the game.
i still say they need to have a very well thought out "speccable" death system that involves the gods such that you can pick and choose aspects of your death penalty, and do it in a way that makes sense in the lore of the game.
Remember that they want to put the rules in the hands of the players in eq next. They wont be able to do that without putting in some ability for customization in a number of ingame systems.