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Well that was quick. Microsoft Surface RT is obsolete. Already.
October 26: Microsoft Surface RT launches to much fanfare.
October 30: Google Nexus 10 makes Microsoft Surface RT obsolete.
A while ago, I started a thread saying Microsoft was preparing a tablet OS, but there weren't any good tablet processors available. Well, now there is one. But Microsoft isn't using it. And soon there will be many more that Microsoft also isn't using. Let's give a quick rundown on the gory details.
Processor: Google Nexus 10 uses a state of the art Samsung Exynos 5250, with two ARM Cortex A15 cores and the latest and greatest ARM Mali 6 generation graphics (DirectX 11 support, though they don't say about OpenGL) on a 32 nm process node. Microsoft Surface RT uses an aging Nvidia Tegra 3 chip with four old ARM Cortex A9 cores and last generation GeForce ULV graphics on a 40 nm process node.
Monitor: Google Nexus 10 hits the high end with a 2560x1600 resolution. Microsoft Surface RT uses the traditional low end 1366x768 resolution. While the Surface RT has a larger diagonal size than the Nexus 10 (10.6" versus 10.1"), the narrower dimensions of the Surface RT mean it actually uses a smaller display (5.35" versus 5.20") in the "short" direction.
Software support: Google Nexus 10 uses Google Android, which is the OS of choice for a large majority of "smart" phones, in addition to more than a few tablets. That means there is a lot of software available, and with an open platform, you're not restricted to what Google wants you to have. Meanwhile, Microsoft Surface RT runs Windows RT, which is brand new with no legacy software support and little hope for getting all that much new software. A locked bootloader also means it can never run anything other than Windows RT.
Weight: Google Nexus 10 is 604 g. Microsoft Surface RT is 680 g.
Price tag: Google Nexus 10 starts at $400. Microsoft Surface RT starts at $500.
Capacity: The 32 GB version of Microsoft Surface RT has only 15 GB free after an OS installation, which leaves it with barely more capacity available to the end user than the 16 GB version of the Google Nexus 10. And Google has a 32 GB version available, too.
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In fairness to Microsoft and as Microsoft itself has pointed out, different tablets serve different purposes. If what you really want is access to Microsoft Office in a tablet form factor, and your actual usage of Office is limited enough that the not entirely functional keyboard that is paired with Surface RT (for an extra $100) is good enough for you, then maybe Microsoft Surface RT makes sense for you. But for anyone else?
Comments
Microsoft messes everything up the first time through. I think when they have a tablet that could be used as a PC with a keyboard/mouse/monitor, then they'll really hit their stride. They'll have to actually compete though...it won't be like the 90s and most of the 00s where they just ran amok.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You do realize the OS on the Surface is more than just a phone OS, like Android and Apple's iOS? It is based off of the Windows NT platform which can scale to 64 processors.
Please read here - http://www.anandtech.com/show/6392/the-windows-rt-review
That's great. It's in mediocre hardware and is limited to Windows "Metro" applications from Microsoft's store. It doesn't matter if it scales to 64 processors if MS puts it in a tablet with 1 processor.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Windows RT's applications can be written in C# / .NET with Visual Studio. Native Android applications are written (by and large) using Java for the Dalvik VM. Java is a far cry from C# due to its terrible generics support and never-gonna-get properties. Not to mention you've got to use Eclipse!
Windows' install base is gigantic. The average user doesn't care what OS the tablet has as long as its easy to use and Windows 8 / RT is easy for new users.
Most users don't care about specs like what you're saying, they care about access to their stuff as quickly as possible. If they get frustrated even for 15 seconds, they're turned off.
Credentials: I've been a Windows developer for the last 10 years. I'm also RedHat and Java certified. I don't have an axe to grind, I simply care about making solutions that my customers will use.
Life of an MMORPG "addict"
For 7 years, proving that if you quote "fuck" you won't get banned.
You are missing the point. The Metro applications are perfect for a touch screen. It seems to work better than my Apple iPhone I have for work.
And they have 2 processors not one - please read the information before actually just slamming something.
The dichotomy between the Apple desktop OS and iOS is huge. The idea is with Windows 8 (on the desktop) and Windows RT on pads and phones. But all ccan use the same software etc. It will make exchange between them so much better.
Allow me to take the other side:
Obsolete would imply : No longer produced or used, antiquated , Outmoded in design, style, or construction. This is just not the case, by that logic my Wife’s Iphone 4s is also obsolete, but nt.. it still works great, and you can still buy them new it’s just not the newest thing on the block
Processor: Nexus 10 uses a Samsung Exynos 5250, Microsoft Surface RT uses an Nvidia Tegra 3 chip
It’s a tablet, they both run extremely well in the closed architecture of the respected OS. The systems in question will still both run everything out there without a hiccup, will the Nexus open Angry birds 1.7 seconds faster? Yes. Will any user actually notice? No. It is easy to say that in paper this processor is faster or better than that one (look at intel vs amd )But in practical application it’s a bust and you know it.
Monitor: Google Nexus 10 :2560x1600. Microsoft Surface RT : 1366x768 resolution.
That 1366x768 is as good as if not better than the average desktop, its will play all the normal wide screen stuff and most apps will support it. Is the Nexus a higher resolution? Yes, will it make a difference in application? Not a lot…
Software support: Google Nexus 10 uses Google Android Microsoft Surface RT runs Windows RT
We all have to start someplace. RT is newer so MS has a lot of ground to cover to catch up. As I recall Android was in the same boat vs Apple when they started. It didn’t take them long and MS (from what I hear) has some experience in application development
Weight: 80 gram.. its almost a boat anchor
Price tag: Google Nexus 10 starts at $400. Microsoft Surface RT starts at $500
That price will come down for both, it always does
Capacity: so.. they are the same. Don’t they both offer micro sd options?
Wow from obsolete to the same as every other tablet in 3 minutes. It’s a tablet, and as with all new things MS will have to break into that market. It is by no stretch of the imagination obsolete. And any chip head will tell you the real life differences are minimal and the average user would not be able to pick them out. Plus this is launching with the WIN8 platform (love it or hate it) it is aimed at being part the larger plan.. my tablet that is in sync with my pc that that is in sync with my phone in a seamless unit. Google can’t offer that they can however help me find stuff on the internet
When I want to use microsoft products on other devices (which I currently do, solely for work purposes as stated above) I install a VDI and run it through that... just saying that as Microsoft saying you use different devices for different needs, I say fug that. Use the better device and still do what you want through third party tools.
EQ2 fan sites
From what I read the Nexus 10 doesn't have a MicroSD slot while the Surface has one, also the Surface has a full fledged USB port that you can plug external HDs.
I look at both tablets and to me, they are both still somewhat expensive, I'm hoping that both will drop (32GB version) to around $350.
The worst thing about this RT release mess is the confusion it's causing. Those of us who are tech-savy, know that RT is not a full Windows 8 just like iOS6 is not Mountain Lion, but the general public is confused by the simultaneous launch of Surface and Windows 8 - they generally think that the RT will run the desktop software they currently use.They don't know the difference between the RT version and the yet-to-be released, full-meal-deal Pro version.
Unless they carefully examined the differences and knew how to interpret what they were reading, it would be reasonable for the average non-techy buyer to expect that RT will run what they want to run. I expect a lot of pissed-off people and returns.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It does have the NT kernel underneath. The only thing is some of the drivers are missing for the processor and items used.
I don't expect many pissed off people. RT to Win 8 is not the same as iOS to Mountain Lion, more like Win 8 home to Win 8 Professional.
You sound like you are tech savvy but you are not understanding what the tech really is. In my first reply I pointed to a link off of Anandtech.com on Windows RT. The expanation is really well defined there.
I didn't say Windows RT was obsolete; just the tablet that Microsoft released for it. I don't expect Windows RT to catch on, but there could at least soon be tablets for Windows RT that use the new generation of hardware--unlike Microsoft Surface RT. To someone using a Windows Surface RT, it doesn't matter how many cores the OS could scale to if you don't have them and can't get them in your tablet.
The Windows XP/Vista/7/8 install base is gigantic. The Windows RT install base, not so much. Standard Windows applications from XP/Vista/7/etc. won't run on Windows RT. At all.
That is so true, and I wonder why didn't Microsoft scrap RT and just stick with 8 Pro on tablets.
Asus can come out with Vivo Tab Smart with Windows 8 Pro for $499 and Acer aswell with the Iconia W500 for $499 (Windows 8 Pro) then why have W8 RT?! /sigh
I think you're missing the point. Smartphones and tablets are not so much about hardware but software in my opinion. Microsoft's selling point is the integration and interaction between PC and tablet software.
Power doesn't matter so much when it's not an issue (say comparing low end to high end gadgets). I upgraded from Galaxy SII to SIII and I got a quad core processor. So what? It made ZERO difference to my user experience. It didn't provide me with any benefits except that my phone now looks ugly. What I like about Apple (and why I am considering selling my S3 to get a Iphone 5 loool and still get the android experience on my SII) is their user experience is just amazing. While Android is super ultra customisable, Apple's iOS is extremely responsive and it almost never crashes...Also aesthetics are very important too! I have seen so many people buy iphones because they think they loooook cooooooooooooool.
Having said all that, I still agree that the Nexus > Surface as Android is the superior OS and I really prefer it to Microsoft's Windows 8 phone version.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I use "obsolete" in the sense of, not what you'd want to buy new today. I don't mean that if you already have one, you should get rid of it. Though it was predictable that Microsoft Surface RT would go obsolete in that sense very quickly. I just expected "very quickly" to mean "a few months" as opposed to "four days".
All else equal, would you rather have a faster processor or a slower processor? Modern graphics support or only antiquated APIs? A larger monitor resolution or a smaller one? Lots of software support right now, or just a hope that there might be some in the future? Heavier or lighter? More storage capacity or less? A higher price tag or a lower one?
And no, 1366 x 768 is not "better than the average desktop". 1366 x 768 would have been considered small in a desktop a decade ago. For a quick reference, New Egg has 624 monitors in their listing. 37 are 1366 x 768. 10 are smaller than 1366 x 768. The rest are all larger than 1366 x 768. And of the ten "smaller" resolution monitors, 5 are less than 11" (not really a "desktop" monitor), four are exactly 15", and one is a 1360x768 resolution, which makes it barely smaller.
WinCE was also way behind in software support. Did it catch up? How about Windows Phone 7? And that's without even having to mention non-Microsoft operating systems.
Nearly all software that will run on Windows 8 Pro will also run on Windows 8 standard. And nearly all software that will run on Windows 8 Pro will not run on Windows RT.
But you're not understanding the (lack of) knowledge level of mom and pop consumer looking for a tablet. The Pro version is in fact a 100% compatible Windows 8 machine running an i5 with plenty of graphics power to run Lightroom, Photoshop, GW2, etc. That one is the truly innovative product: a tablet running the full current MS operating system and something that Apple no doubt, will also do with OSX at some point once they finish with their post-Jobs purges.
And with all due respect to Anadtech, a site I read and value, mom and pop consumer--correction, the minority of them that is somewhat well-informed in general, are much more likely to read the NY Times review than what the techie web sites have to say about RT's future potential.
Besides, my main point above is that the simultaneous release of Surface RT and Windows 8 adds to the confusion about what it can or can't do. What it can't do is run any curent Windows program off the shelf, NT kernel notwithstanding---that's the Pro version.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/technology/personaltech/microsoft-unveils-the-surface-its-first-tablet-review.html?nl=technology&emc=edit_ct_20121025&_r=0
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't expect many pissed off people. RT to Win 8 is not the same as iOS to Mountain Lion, more like Win 8 home to Win 8 Professional.
You sound like you are tech savvy but you are not understanding what the tech really is. In my first reply I pointed to a link off of Anandtech.com on Windows RT. The expanation is really well defined there.
The difference between Apple's approach and Microsoft's approach is that Apple went from the iPod to the iPhone to the iPad. Their desktop operating system is irrelevant. People who run Windows on their desktop were using iPads, iPods and iPhones. They still are.
For Microsoft, their desktop operating system is relevant, especially if they are advertising how similar and interoperable Windows 8 and Windows RT are. They might be interoperable, but the only applications that will run on Windows RT are Metro apps, supplied by Microsoft's market. It is a different set of expectations on the part of customers.
Apple's success with bringing an OS to market that was unrelated to their desktop OS is unrelated to what Microsoft has to do.
Also, Microsoft's tablet has one processor. It might be dual core, but it's one processor, not two. But it doesn't matter if their tablet does have two processors. Whatever it has is weaker than the competition, and it's not the 64 processors that Windows RT is capable of running. Windows RT being capable of running X number of processors doesn't matter if it's not running on X number of processors. < This is a callback to a previous post.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well this thread sure got a lot of views in a hurry. I guess my provocative title was a good choice.
If you're going to cite AnandTech, then I'll mention that sometimes Anand gives the impression that he cares more about how a device looks and feels in his hands than what the electronics actually do while it's turned on. For people like him, Microsoft Surface RT still has the "but it's magnesium!" advantage.
How many years has that been driving Apple sales?
No other comment really required.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I don't think the OP understand what the Surface, and the Nexus, are designed to do.
Neither of them are "peak" hardware demonstrations. They are OS demonstrations, designed primarily to market the Microsoft/Google ecosystems to manufacturers. The Surface will sell out, showing manufacturers that people want Surface devices. They will then use Surface for a range of devices. Similarly with the Nexus, it will sell out and reinforce the Google brand in the eyes of manufacturers.
Golly. This guy can't wait 6 months for the new versions every damn company pumps out?
Wait until next year for the next great MS product ... and get all upset once again when a new product launches a month later with marginally improved specs 99% of the average users won't take advantage of anyway.
I am in IT and still haven't bought a single pad or smart phone (my company supplies me all I need anyway). I will buy my first one when they have 100% perfect work flow from my pc. MS may be slightly behind the curve atm but they at least look like they will be the first to offer this.
You stay sassy!