So I guess we can safely say that "Walking in Stations" can qualified as utter failure and nothing will be done anymore.
They can then just as well remove it from the game. As right now it's just an utterly useless resource hog. /facepalm
A real shame. As I have always been looking forward to the avatar implementation and fully functional space stations and meet other players. /shrug
wait a moment,
you think that is a quick task? They must be adding a whole new game on top of what is there, and the current Walking on station thing is just a glimpse of what is coming in the future.
haven´t you seen the future vision trailer of EvE?
Originally posted by Piraal Very few of the actual playerbase want to walk in station, but CCP still has some dev.'s working on it, it was also the framework for world of darkness.
You are wrong, it was very few, but EXTREMELY VOCAL hardcore segment of the playerbase that did not want it!
There were plenty of people that want Walking in Stations.
But like in so many MMO's. Devs always seem to crave in for the Vocal minority. /sigh
True, it´s the vocal minority which screams "waste of time" for new gameplay ideas like WiS, but the EvE vision is still making it the ultimate Sci Fi simulator, and that includes walking on stations, social interaction with avatars on bases.. etc.
I mostly saw huge support for it and some hardcore vocal minority rallying against it, like always the boycotters against great ideas always hold up progress everywhere. It is in their nature.
But look at Dust514, I think both games will grow together over time, this is obvious.
If I'm not mistaken, I read once that CCP's real dream with EVE was never for it to only be a spaceship game. CCP wanted from the beginning that people would be able to walk around with their avatars. CCP's vision of EVE Online was that of a living galaxy, with stations, planets, spaceships.
That maybe true, I really have no idea what their vision is. But CCP is after all a business, and when Incana (the captains quarters update) was release, it wasn't just the out cry from the playerbase to stick with "flying in space" development, it was the subscriber numbers they lost in the months after the "walking in station" update came out which gave them pause. People were not happy, and they were telling CCP with their wallet, shortly after CCP said in Dev. blogs they would focus on what people wanted, and released Crucible, subscriber numbers shot back up to pre- incana numbers.
The subscriber loss had very little to do with walking in stations. There was a small outcry from the lack of ship spinning when the CQ was disabled (with the ship fitting screen being a poor substitute) but CCP addressed this quickly and people were happy to wait.
The reason for the subscriber loss was through the monetisation of Eve. It initially started in the Trading are when CCP released information that no longer would 3rd party apps that received payments or services in game be allowable under their licensing. So for example any killboard providers that took ISK payment would no longer be allowed access to Eve APIs (rendering any autolinking of kills obsolete). This would have been relatively small but then when Incarna dropped people realised that the vanity items were heavily priced. It then came out that added to this would be 'Golden Ammo' - the ability for people to use timecards swapped for Aurum to purchase special items, such as ship upgrades or ammo upgrades. By itself this would not have been too bad, after all you can buy timecards for ISK and get exactly the same thing, but as the items were agent provided it meant that it bypassed the industrial part of Eve which would have severe consequences for the economic aspects of the game (which is one of it's strongest points). All this led to a strong feeling that CCP were just trying to screw the playerbase for money - quite a shockwave as CCP is a lot closer to the playerbase than many other MMOs and the realisation that they were a business kinda shook people up a bit.
So the environment was volatile and there were many threads started to express this. All it needed was a spark to really set if off - and that's when the internal newsletter was leaked with the headline "Greed is Good" echoing Gordon Gecko's famous line. That's when you got the Jita riots and the sub cancellations. Of course many people who were on long term subscriptions just cancelled to add their voice to the protest (and I know one person that subbed up for 6 months and then cancelled so he could add his voice without losing his ability to play). That's when CCP went on full back-track.
So walking in stations was not popular, many like myself felt that the last thing we wanted was a way for people who insisted on staying docked up having a way to prevent them getting bored, and there were lots that felt that their sub money should be spent on core features and not fluff (or practice for WoD), but I don't know of anyone that quit over it.
I was a 6 year vet and quit the game, not soley due to the lack of walking on stations but I feel it walking on stations would have been something that made me engage more with the game. I really wanted to see my avatar walk out of a battleship once in a while.
On the flip side, there is nothing in the patch that makes me go 'wow' I need to return. That is a shame for players on the fringe. Either way EvE will continue to go strong.
Still waiting for the long promised and put off mining and industry update.....
"If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it." -Luke McKinney, The 7 Biggest Dick Moves in the History of Online Gaming
"In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I'd rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity." -Raph Koster
Kudos to CCP for working on some systems and mechanics that could really use an overhaul.
Personally though, there's not much in that expansion that makes me want to return. I'm not a fan of free-for-all PvP and I'm not interested in living in null-sec or being part of a huge corporation. I prefer the lifestyle of a lone hi-sec industrialist. I love crafting and doing my own thing while still being part of a living breathing universe. Unfortunately, that lifestyle doesn't seem to be a priority for CCP. In fact, they seem outright hostile towards it whenever I read dev blogs about their long term ideas for the game. Until I see a change in that and/or some real progress where walking in stations is concerned, I'll stick with other MMOs. A shame though, since I'd like to see sandbox MMOs become more successful.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Originally posted by Piraal Very few of the actual playerbase want to walk in station, but CCP still has some dev.'s working on it, it was also the framework for world of darkness.
You get this from where??? I see all the time players asking for that option. Station walk can be only one big +
So I guess we can safely say that "Walking in Stations" can qualified as utter failure and nothing will be done anymore.
They can then just as well remove it from the game. As right now it's just an utterly useless resource hog. /facepalm
A real shame. As I have always been looking forward to the avatar implementation and fully functional space stations and meet other players. /shrug
Devs have real-time metrics in every mmo that tell them who is using what features of their game at any given time.
That being said, if walking in stations was a failure as you naively claimed, it would have been removed by now. I know personally I use the feature 100% of the time since day one.
Originally posted by Piraal Very few of the actual playerbase want to walk in station, but CCP still has some dev.'s working on it, it was also the framework for world of darkness.
You have no proof to base that statement on that about how many use walk in station feature.
Originally posted by Butch808 I'd pick up EVE instantly if it had walking in stations.
Er...so they gave us walking in stations with captains quarters, so where are you? Oh wait, you want to do something more than see your character? OK, what exactly?
Do you want to walk around and chat with other players? Is that enough or do you want to drink with them in a Catina? Does CCP need to add storefronts, shops, bar room brawls, and perhaps ship boarding and ground combat as well? Where does it end?
You are asking them to create an entirely new game and if you hadn't noticed, they over extended themselves with Dust 514 and WOD and EVE itself has suffered for out.
In the end they know if you aren't playing EVE for what it currently offers (which is truly unique among MMOS) then no matter what they add as far as WiS goes is never going to keep you long enough to make it worth their while.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"It's all about immersion, according to Olafsson, who says that the new avatar-based sections of the game will give players a stronger sense of self and a deeper awareness of the game environment and the scale of New Eden."
That is from an interview with one of the CCP devs about the purpose of the implmentation of avatars in EVE. EVE is trying to evolve as any surviving mmo has to do or end up shutdown.
The whining kiddies in EVE who fight against that evolution might as well go play some browser-based space shooter if they can't handle evolving.
I know what I think it means. But I want to know what it really means.
Unified inventory was just a change to the way that hangars and cargo bay inventory windows worked. It basically just mean that instead of having 10 diffirent windows, you have one window that you can access all of your other inventory windows from.
People are being overdramatic about it being bad. It took a little getting used to, but CCP has been pretty clear that they'll impliment stuff and then refine it with smaller iterations as time goes on; some people are impatient.
I like what they're doing with this xpac. Lots more options for building ships and items to build, hopefully a useful bounty system. I'm hoping crimewatch will encourage people to do a little pvp in high sec as well.
Originally posted by Piraal Very few of the actual playerbase want to walk in station, but CCP still has some dev.'s working on it, it was also the framework for world of darkness.
You are wrong, it was very few, but EXTREMELY VOCAL hardcore segment of the playerbase that did not want it!
There were plenty of people that want Walking in Stations.
But like in so many MMO's. Devs always seem to crave in for the Vocal minority. /sigh
I think the people who chose to play EVE all those years, didn't choose to do so because they thought eventually they could walk around. I think they chose to play EVE for what the game actually IS.
If I want to walk around, I'll either get up off my chair and do it in real life, or play any other lesser MMO.
Actually, as CCP has said, they know they are going to need to keep expanding the game in other directions in order to keep it alive for another 10+ years like they want. They know even the hardcore oldschoolers will eventually get sick of the space game as it is, and there's only so much they can do with that aspect of the game. When was the last time there was a revolutionary change in gameplay mechanics?
They also know that there's a lot of people out there like me who would love to play EVE if it could deliver a walking game along side the flying game. Star Wars Galaxies had it and people loved it, though is't nowhere near as cool as EVE's. They are missing out on a lot of potential growth by just developing for the hardcore players.
I was blown away by the character creation system last week when I signed up to try it. They I loved how nice my little station cabin looked in the game. It's a kick in the teeth to know that is the only place I will ever walk around in 3D. Put a ground based game in along side the space game and I'm there... for years. I'm not talking about that Dust garbage either.
I was able to get that character looking shockingly close to the real me in a matter of minutes with their system.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
As long as the "GOONS" are controlling EVE you will see very little progress in making EVE more of a sandbox.
It just seems to me that the "GOONS" have thier own ideas about how EVE should be and they have more influence in EVE more than all of the rest of the players .
As long as the "GOONS" are controlling EVE you will see very little progress in making EVE more of a sandbox.
It just seems to me that the "GOONS" have thier own ideas about how EVE should be and they have more influence in EVE more than all of the rest of the players .
That one group can rise to so much power and influence is a sure sign that this game is a well qualified sandbox.
Well I am glad they are addressing the bounty and crimewatch code, both were somewhat broken and abused by those that knew the holes in the code. To those above that say it does not change anything, you are incorrect. Spend some time reading the blogs before you make yourself look ignorant.
Looking forward to the new ships, and the rebalancing of some of the useless ones.
Comments
These changes are badly needed.
For Great Justice!
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
wait a moment,
you think that is a quick task? They must be adding a whole new game on top of what is there, and the current Walking on station thing is just a glimpse of what is coming in the future.
haven´t you seen the future vision trailer of EvE?
True, it´s the vocal minority which screams "waste of time" for new gameplay ideas like WiS, but the EvE vision is still making it the ultimate Sci Fi simulator, and that includes walking on stations, social interaction with avatars on bases.. etc.
I mostly saw huge support for it and some hardcore vocal minority rallying against it, like always the boycotters against great ideas always hold up progress everywhere. It is in their nature.
But look at Dust514, I think both games will grow together over time, this is obvious.
The subscriber loss had very little to do with walking in stations. There was a small outcry from the lack of ship spinning when the CQ was disabled (with the ship fitting screen being a poor substitute) but CCP addressed this quickly and people were happy to wait.
The reason for the subscriber loss was through the monetisation of Eve. It initially started in the Trading are when CCP released information that no longer would 3rd party apps that received payments or services in game be allowable under their licensing. So for example any killboard providers that took ISK payment would no longer be allowed access to Eve APIs (rendering any autolinking of kills obsolete). This would have been relatively small but then when Incarna dropped people realised that the vanity items were heavily priced. It then came out that added to this would be 'Golden Ammo' - the ability for people to use timecards swapped for Aurum to purchase special items, such as ship upgrades or ammo upgrades. By itself this would not have been too bad, after all you can buy timecards for ISK and get exactly the same thing, but as the items were agent provided it meant that it bypassed the industrial part of Eve which would have severe consequences for the economic aspects of the game (which is one of it's strongest points). All this led to a strong feeling that CCP were just trying to screw the playerbase for money - quite a shockwave as CCP is a lot closer to the playerbase than many other MMOs and the realisation that they were a business kinda shook people up a bit.
So the environment was volatile and there were many threads started to express this. All it needed was a spark to really set if off - and that's when the internal newsletter was leaked with the headline "Greed is Good" echoing Gordon Gecko's famous line. That's when you got the Jita riots and the sub cancellations. Of course many people who were on long term subscriptions just cancelled to add their voice to the protest (and I know one person that subbed up for 6 months and then cancelled so he could add his voice without losing his ability to play). That's when CCP went on full back-track.
So walking in stations was not popular, many like myself felt that the last thing we wanted was a way for people who insisted on staying docked up having a way to prevent them getting bored, and there were lots that felt that their sub money should be spent on core features and not fluff (or practice for WoD), but I don't know of anyone that quit over it.
www.ygworlds.net
I was a 6 year vet and quit the game, not soley due to the lack of walking on stations but I feel it walking on stations would have been something that made me engage more with the game. I really wanted to see my avatar walk out of a battleship once in a while.
On the flip side, there is nothing in the patch that makes me go 'wow' I need to return. That is a shame for players on the fringe. Either way EvE will continue to go strong.
"If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it."
-Luke McKinney, The 7 Biggest Dick Moves in the History of Online Gaming
"In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I'd rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
-Raph Koster
Right! They've been pretty darn quiet about this one for a while now...
Kudos to CCP for working on some systems and mechanics that could really use an overhaul.
Personally though, there's not much in that expansion that makes me want to return. I'm not a fan of free-for-all PvP and I'm not interested in living in null-sec or being part of a huge corporation. I prefer the lifestyle of a lone hi-sec industrialist. I love crafting and doing my own thing while still being part of a living breathing universe. Unfortunately, that lifestyle doesn't seem to be a priority for CCP. In fact, they seem outright hostile towards it whenever I read dev blogs about their long term ideas for the game. Until I see a change in that and/or some real progress where walking in stations is concerned, I'll stick with other MMOs. A shame though, since I'd like to see sandbox MMOs become more successful.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
You get this from where??? I see all the time players asking for that option. Station walk can be only one big +
Devs have real-time metrics in every mmo that tell them who is using what features of their game at any given time.
That being said, if walking in stations was a failure as you naively claimed, it would have been removed by now. I know personally I use the feature 100% of the time since day one.
You have no proof to base that statement on that about how many use walk in station feature.
Er...so they gave us walking in stations with captains quarters, so where are you? Oh wait, you want to do something more than see your character? OK, what exactly?
Do you want to walk around and chat with other players? Is that enough or do you want to drink with them in a Catina? Does CCP need to add storefronts, shops, bar room brawls, and perhaps ship boarding and ground combat as well? Where does it end?
You are asking them to create an entirely new game and if you hadn't noticed, they over extended themselves with Dust 514 and WOD and EVE itself has suffered for out.
In the end they know if you aren't playing EVE for what it currently offers (which is truly unique among MMOS) then no matter what they add as far as WiS goes is never going to keep you long enough to make it worth their while.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"It's all about immersion, according to Olafsson, who says that the new avatar-based sections of the game will give players a stronger sense of self and a deeper awareness of the game environment and the scale of New Eden."
That is from an interview with one of the CCP devs about the purpose of the implmentation of avatars in EVE. EVE is trying to evolve as any surviving mmo has to do or end up shutdown.
The whining kiddies in EVE who fight against that evolution might as well go play some browser-based space shooter if they can't handle evolving.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/10/ccp-video-blog-talks-eve-immersion-incarna-deployment/
Unified inventory was just a change to the way that hangars and cargo bay inventory windows worked. It basically just mean that instead of having 10 diffirent windows, you have one window that you can access all of your other inventory windows from.
People are being overdramatic about it being bad. It took a little getting used to, but CCP has been pretty clear that they'll impliment stuff and then refine it with smaller iterations as time goes on; some people are impatient.
I like what they're doing with this xpac. Lots more options for building ships and items to build, hopefully a useful bounty system. I'm hoping crimewatch will encourage people to do a little pvp in high sec as well.
The new changes look good, but I agree with previous posters - Eve could do with Walking in Stations.
As Pokket said, "There aren't any unicorns in Eve."
She is correct - the Eve universe is about killing in a very single-minded way.
I would like to get out of my ship and explore.
Actually, as CCP has said, they know they are going to need to keep expanding the game in other directions in order to keep it alive for another 10+ years like they want. They know even the hardcore oldschoolers will eventually get sick of the space game as it is, and there's only so much they can do with that aspect of the game. When was the last time there was a revolutionary change in gameplay mechanics?
They also know that there's a lot of people out there like me who would love to play EVE if it could deliver a walking game along side the flying game. Star Wars Galaxies had it and people loved it, though is't nowhere near as cool as EVE's. They are missing out on a lot of potential growth by just developing for the hardcore players.
I was blown away by the character creation system last week when I signed up to try it. They I loved how nice my little station cabin looked in the game. It's a kick in the teeth to know that is the only place I will ever walk around in 3D. Put a ground based game in along side the space game and I'm there... for years. I'm not talking about that Dust garbage either.
I was able to get that character looking shockingly close to the real me in a matter of minutes with their system.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
For the Frigates at least
Attack is DPS + Tackle
Combat is just DPS
As long as the "GOONS" are controlling EVE you will see very little progress in making EVE more of a sandbox.
It just seems to me that the "GOONS" have thier own ideas about how EVE should be and they have more influence in EVE more than all of the rest of the players .
That one group can rise to so much power and influence is a sure sign that this game is a well qualified sandbox.
Meh, as a 9 years old EVE veteran they need to provide more than, what essentially boils down to, simple GUI improvements, to keep my interest.
The ways to collect bounty stays the same, regardless of the proposed system.
The ways to gain criminal flagging stays the same, regardless of peoples awarness of their own current status or not.
New ships... meh, one combat ship or the other, the war goals and the ways to achieve them are still the same.
In general, another bunch of GUI improvements aimed at making the EVE interface easier for new players. No new content at all.
3rd expansion in a row without actually expanding anything...just another no-content patch.
Sorry, that is not how you build worlds.
I think most people 'take it as read' that Retribution will be ok or good.
Many would like to see Walking in Stations. Lots of building blocks for this are present:
> We have character creation, clothing, and captain's quarters.
> DUST will create worlds to walk around in.
> What CCP learn from World of Darkness could be imported into Eve.
If CCP went the extra mile and made Eve compatable with 3D glasses, maybe Eve could become the Google of the gaming world.
Well I am glad they are addressing the bounty and crimewatch code, both were somewhat broken and abused by those that knew the holes in the code. To those above that say it does not change anything, you are incorrect. Spend some time reading the blogs before you make yourself look ignorant.
Looking forward to the new ships, and the rebalancing of some of the useless ones.