First, I will say... loving the game more every day. I make no excuses or bones about that. I think it is actually pretty sublime.
But... some people are not getting it, obviously. Not the majority I think, everyone I see in game seems to be having a great time, but there are those that are finding it not for them.
Why?
My suspicion is, simply, that GW2 is a strange thing... it is a themepark that requires you to think like a sandbox, but the problem is the vast majority of players are unable to think like you need to to properly enjoy a sandbox.
They require close guidance. They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule. Too much choice confuses and frustrates them, at which point they start crying 'bored!!'.
They just don't get it... maybe the game is too subtle in what it does?
To enjoy the game properly, I think, you need to be able to let go of what you have been conditioned with over the last few years, but I suspect a lot of folks ultimately won't be able to do that.
Thoughts?
Uh .. wut? I hate to tell you this but wandering the map from heart to heart and jumping into the occasional orange ring of "do-goodery" is not exactly fucking rocket surgery. If people are finding themselves unable to figure out what to do, they must be the same kind of person who has trouble going to the lavatory on their own.
Personally I feel the real issue is the PVE portion of the game feels like it lacks any real meaning and is repetitve as hell. The same complaint of every themepark that's come down the pike. While I think the free roaming questing of the game is a nice idea, the way A-nets put it together means all I see it as is the freedom to become bored wherever I like.
"You call what Swan does acting? That's not acting. Its kissing and jumping and fighting and humping"
Couldn't have said it better. I played EVE for 5 years and Ryzom for 3. And i didn't need to bring my 'sandbox' mentality in GW2 to enjoy it.
I don't know... Sometimes I can't get myself out of town without deciding on which weapon I want to hack and slash or shoot at the target... It's a hard decision you know... Choose wrong and its like waking up on the wrong side of the bed, just doesn't feel right...
I understand what you mean OP, but I think your use of the two terms that everyone on this site has a different definition for is going to cause you grief .
Making a topic with either of those terms themepark or sandbox to try and strive a point pretty much turns the topic overall into a lost cause.
I am inclined to agree Wicked, sadly.
I once again underestimate the forum with a topic and their ability to not just argue about terminology and semanitcs for 15 pages
Using the term was a mistake. People are just reading what they want it to be saying, rather then what it is saying.
The amount of delusion in this thread is off the hook. People actually think GW2 is complicated and requires special intelligence to play. It's a casual mmo made for the casual player. It is not difficult at all and requires the least amount of effort to reach max level of an mmo I have played.
Again, you have misunderstood.
No one said it was complicated. No one said it required intelligence. This all was your addition. You are arguing a point that you yourself have introduced.
That's twice in this thread you have failed to grasp what's being said.
I have no idea, but I have heard it as a complaint that some folks are confused and feel lost and undirected.
They would need to answer your last question I guess.
To be fair, I have seen some get thrown into this group when they remark some areas seem sparse on DEs so they either end up repeating them or consider going to other racial areas unless they do a lot of crafting or WvW as well in lower areas. The reason ebing they want to keep other areas unexplored for when they make alts. Not saying that is all of those but I have seen some unfairly dubbed this honor. Amusingly the writer for this site that did his review had that thrown his way by a few even. So part of it is people misunderstanding what some are syaing.
Others I have seen unfairly categorized that way simply say they don't feel any real immersion or significance with the DEs they have done.
Far as those that do simply feel completely lost. Well...I mean for some it will come over time and for others maybe they rather enjoy things being set up completely linear. Everyone has different tastes.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I understand what you mean OP, but I think your use of the two terms that everyone on this site has a different definition for is going to cause you grief .
Making a topic with either of those terms themepark or sandbox to try and strive a point pretty much turns the topic overall into a lost cause.
I am inclined to agree Wicked, sadly.
I once again underestimate the forum with a topic and their ability to not just argue about terminology and semanitcs for 15 pages
Using the term was a mistake. People are just reading what they want it to be saying, rather then what it is saying.
Ahh wel, nm.
Yup you got it
Yeah
I will just withdraw and let folk get on with it now I think. Explaining repeatedly to people that have too much invested in not understanding isn't fun.
The amount of delusion in this thread is off the hook. People actually think GW2 is complicated and requires special intelligence to play. It's a casual mmo made for the casual player. It is not difficult at all and requires the least amount of effort to reach max level of an mmo I have played.
Again, you have misunderstood.
No one said it was complicated. No one said it required intelligence. This all was your addition. You are arguing a point that you yourself have introduced.
That's twice in this thread you have failed to grasp what's being said.
Several people have insinutated that GW2 is too complicated for some players, that need to be held by the hand. Go back and read some of the posts.
As far as failing to grasp, you yourself have backed off your original post, because it made absolutely no sense. Maybe it is you that fails to grasp, what you are even trying to say.
There is plenty of spoon feeding in GW2 through daily achievement system. They cleverly replaced quest dailies with achievement system and monthly system. Not sure if there is weekly yet or not. But it would be foolish not to do this because rewards are great.
I have got 8 transmutation stones through it, an express token to use my bank and auction anywhere in world, rare dyes,tons of xp and gold along with those special mystic coins you get for Lions arch.
So yeah plenty of daily scheduling here. Right now i am working on monthly.
No, the problem is people don't want MMOs anymore.
No matter what you do, they want to grind instanced dungeons for that farmville number effect.
No matter what you change that's what the genre is now.
It's a shame too.
Everyone likes their first MMO because they actually play it to play it, not to get to endgame and grind. You need that mentality for GW2 and ALL MMOs, but people don't use it anymore.
A nerfnow comic comes to mind that explains this. You can change the game but you can't change the gamer.
The game isn't perfect, but it doesn't matter because even if it had NO FLAWS AT ALL people would have the same responses.
At first people who didn't like GW2 were undercover blizzard employees, then they were trolls who hadn't even played the game. Now they are players who just don't get it.
At this rate we will stumble upon the real reason in about a month: GW2 is just another generic fantasy themepark. Some of them use the "course" approach and bring you different dishes to your table. Others like GW2 uses the buffet approach, where you get to choose what you want to eat. Ultimately it doesn't make a difference because both restaurants get their food from the fantasy themepark kitchen, which is the same boring, bland crap we've been fed in the last 10 years.
The only thing i knew was different in the way to experience as DE. Simply use the Hearts to guide you and then move on to find DE's. Don't use Hearts like quest hubs and move from each to each. So, i just explored to find them.
That is the problem in a nutshell.
The people who don't get it are focusing almost entirely on hearts. It's been stated, re-emphasized, and demonstrated time & time again that hearts are not the focus of the game. They are a little something extra on the side. However, people are still treating them like that little exclamation point you find in other games.
I think this is it, too. Hearts, and I'd say even map completion. Some people are looking at it like a level to be completed, and move on. Content to be grinded out and outlevelled.
Personally, I'm enjoying the downlevelling a lot more than I expected to. I just go all over, and don't worry that much about where I've already been.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
The only thing i knew was different in the way to experience as DE. Simply use the Hearts to guide you and then move on to find DE's. Don't use Hearts like quest hubs and move from each to each. So, i just explored to find them.
That is the problem in a nutshell.
The people who don't get it are focusing almost entirely on hearts. It's been stated, re-emphasized, and demonstrated time & time again that hearts are not the focus of the game. They are a little something extra on the side. However, people are still treating them like that little exclamation point you find in other games.
I think this is it, too. Hearts, and I'd say even map completion. Some people are looking at it like a level to be completed, and move on. Content to be grinded out and outlevelled.
Personally, I'm enjoying the downlevelling a lot more than I expected to. I just go all over, and don't worry that much about where I've already been.
So what are you saying that people shouldn't complete maps? it is totally worth it due to awards associated with it and they also help in completeion of daily and monthly achievements.
The vibe i am getting from this topic is that 'your play style is wrong' unless you play like i do.
Ok let me set a challenge for those of you with the patience and curiosity to attempt it.
Go one full day without hitting "M" and without porting to a waypoint.
Use you minimap, sure, assume thats your line of sight and mini notes, but do not open the main map.
------
Log in, have a think about your daily achievements, and wander off whereever you are to try and complete them. Should you complete that, try the same with youyr monthlys.
As you go, if you stumble over a heart, or see a vista or waypoint by all means do them, in fact I encourage it, but do it only because it happens to be where you are.
This of course all applies to when you are unpartied.
If your bags are full, send off your collectibles and discover a merchant for your junk, anything else you carry needs to be considered as salvagable or a keeper, but maintain as much bag space as possible.
When I play like this I feel I truly appreciate the game. I try to map things out in my head. I look at everything.
Its awesome.
(Then again I play Skyrim with no ports and no crosshair - nirvana).
Or stay here and argue technicalities with strangers....
cheers
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
The only thing i knew was different in the way to experience as DE. Simply use the Hearts to guide you and then move on to find DE's. Don't use Hearts like quest hubs and move from each to each. So, i just explored to find them.
That is the problem in a nutshell.
The people who don't get it are focusing almost entirely on hearts. It's been stated, re-emphasized, and demonstrated time & time again that hearts are not the focus of the game. They are a little something extra on the side. However, people are still treating them like that little exclamation point you find in other games.
I think this is it, too. Hearts, and I'd say even map completion. Some people are looking at it like a level to be completed, and move on. Content to be grinded out and outlevelled.
Personally, I'm enjoying the downlevelling a lot more than I expected to. I just go all over, and don't worry that much about where I've already been.
So what are you saying that people shouldn't complete maps? it is totally worth it due to awards associated with it and they also help in completeion of daily and monthly achievements.
The vibe i am getting from this topic is that 'your play style is wrong' unless you play like i do.
Thats just wat the "man" wants you to think. That you should complete the map and do the hearts. But I'm above the "man". I frolic throu the flowers all day instead of doing your silly hearts and DEs and PvP, because thats just wat he wants me to do. I'm not buying into that crap.
The only thing i knew was different in the way to experience as DE. Simply use the Hearts to guide you and then move on to find DE's. Don't use Hearts like quest hubs and move from each to each. So, i just explored to find them.
That is the problem in a nutshell.
The people who don't get it are focusing almost entirely on hearts. It's been stated, re-emphasized, and demonstrated time & time again that hearts are not the focus of the game. They are a little something extra on the side. However, people are still treating them like that little exclamation point you find in other games.
I think this is it, too. Hearts, and I'd say even map completion. Some people are looking at it like a level to be completed, and move on. Content to be grinded out and outlevelled.
The problem in a nutshell is to many people telling others how to play the game .. and if it's not the same way as them it's wrong ..
People proclaim a big part of the game's attraction is that it allows you to do what you want, when you want , it's freedom .. So why when people do that and maybe use the Hearts as standard quests or the focus of their game and plans it's wrong ?
Why can't people look to complete the maps and move on ?
Why can't someone just concentrate on DE's or crafting ?
The freedom to play how you want ... as long as you play how others want you to
I think this is it, too. Hearts, and I'd say even map completion. Some people are looking at it like a level to be completed, and move on. Content to be grinded out and outlevelled.
Personally, I'm enjoying the downlevelling a lot more than I expected to. I just go all over, and don't worry that much about where I've already been.
So what are you saying that people shouldn't complete maps? it is totally worth it due to awards associated with it and they also help in completeion of daily and monthly achievements.
The vibe i am getting from this topic is that 'your play style is wrong' unless you play like i do.
I'm not saying anyone's playing it wrong, or trying to tell anyone to play differently. I'm just speculating about why some people enjoy it more than others. If you prefer more directed gameplay, there's nothing wrong with that, but it might explain a few things.
Definately not saying people shouldn't complete maps or do heart quests. Obviously, those things are in the game, because they're meant to be done. I'm just saying it's not my primary focus. I get around to it, but I don't methodically go through and complete everything.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
The OP is on to something. GW2 is not a sandbox but it is the first themepark mmo where I'm not directed all the time towards something specific by a specific NPC with a specific tasks for me, I actually find my self roaming around doing what I want to do most of the time. I can see it being hard for people who grew up playing solely games where you get told 100% of the time what you are supposed to do next.
Comments
I don't know... Sometimes I can't get myself out of town without deciding on which weapon I want to hack and slash or shoot at the target... It's a hard decision you know... Choose wrong and its like waking up on the wrong side of the bed, just doesn't feel right...
Yup you got it
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Again, you have misunderstood.
No one said it was complicated. No one said it required intelligence. This all was your addition. You are arguing a point that you yourself have introduced.
That's twice in this thread you have failed to grasp what's being said.
To be fair, I have seen some get thrown into this group when they remark some areas seem sparse on DEs so they either end up repeating them or consider going to other racial areas unless they do a lot of crafting or WvW as well in lower areas. The reason ebing they want to keep other areas unexplored for when they make alts. Not saying that is all of those but I have seen some unfairly dubbed this honor. Amusingly the writer for this site that did his review had that thrown his way by a few even. So part of it is people misunderstanding what some are syaing.
Others I have seen unfairly categorized that way simply say they don't feel any real immersion or significance with the DEs they have done.
Far as those that do simply feel completely lost. Well...I mean for some it will come over time and for others maybe they rather enjoy things being set up completely linear. Everyone has different tastes.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Yeah
I will just withdraw and let folk get on with it now I think. Explaining repeatedly to people that have too much invested in not understanding isn't fun.
Several people have insinutated that GW2 is too complicated for some players, that need to be held by the hand. Go back and read some of the posts.
As far as failing to grasp, you yourself have backed off your original post, because it made absolutely no sense. Maybe it is you that fails to grasp, what you are even trying to say.
Also i would to like to add here regarding..
They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule.
There is plenty of spoon feeding in GW2 through daily achievement system. They cleverly replaced quest dailies with achievement system and monthly system. Not sure if there is weekly yet or not. But it would be foolish not to do this because rewards are great.
I have got 8 transmutation stones through it, an express token to use my bank and auction anywhere in world, rare dyes,tons of xp and gold along with those special mystic coins you get for Lions arch.
So yeah plenty of daily scheduling here. Right now i am working on monthly.
Bite Me
No, the problem is people don't want MMOs anymore.
No matter what you do, they want to grind instanced dungeons for that farmville number effect.
No matter what you change that's what the genre is now.
It's a shame too.
Everyone likes their first MMO because they actually play it to play it, not to get to endgame and grind. You need that mentality for GW2 and ALL MMOs, but people don't use it anymore.
A nerfnow comic comes to mind that explains this. You can change the game but you can't change the gamer.
The game isn't perfect, but it doesn't matter because even if it had NO FLAWS AT ALL people would have the same responses.
Well, at least we are making progress.
At first people who didn't like GW2 were undercover blizzard employees, then they were trolls who hadn't even played the game. Now they are players who just don't get it.
At this rate we will stumble upon the real reason in about a month: GW2 is just another generic fantasy themepark. Some of them use the "course" approach and bring you different dishes to your table. Others like GW2 uses the buffet approach, where you get to choose what you want to eat. Ultimately it doesn't make a difference because both restaurants get their food from the fantasy themepark kitchen, which is the same boring, bland crap we've been fed in the last 10 years.
Personally I would say it's more people don't know what they want ...
They don't want a clone > release a non clone > people complain it's not a clone
Pretty much same issues and topics TSW has/had
I think this is it, too. Hearts, and I'd say even map completion. Some people are looking at it like a level to be completed, and move on. Content to be grinded out and outlevelled.
Personally, I'm enjoying the downlevelling a lot more than I expected to. I just go all over, and don't worry that much about where I've already been.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
So what are you saying that people shouldn't complete maps? it is totally worth it due to awards associated with it and they also help in completeion of daily and monthly achievements.
The vibe i am getting from this topic is that 'your play style is wrong' unless you play like i do.
Bite Me
Ok let me set a challenge for those of you with the patience and curiosity to attempt it.
Go one full day without hitting "M" and without porting to a waypoint.
Use you minimap, sure, assume thats your line of sight and mini notes, but do not open the main map.
------
Log in, have a think about your daily achievements, and wander off whereever you are to try and complete them. Should you complete that, try the same with youyr monthlys.
As you go, if you stumble over a heart, or see a vista or waypoint by all means do them, in fact I encourage it, but do it only because it happens to be where you are.
This of course all applies to when you are unpartied.
If your bags are full, send off your collectibles and discover a merchant for your junk, anything else you carry needs to be considered as salvagable or a keeper, but maintain as much bag space as possible.
When I play like this I feel I truly appreciate the game. I try to map things out in my head. I look at everything.
Its awesome.
(Then again I play Skyrim with no ports and no crosshair - nirvana).
Or stay here and argue technicalities with strangers....
cheers
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
Thats just wat the "man" wants you to think. That you should complete the map and do the hearts. But I'm above the "man". I frolic throu the flowers all day instead of doing your silly hearts and DEs and PvP, because thats just wat he wants me to do. I'm not buying into that crap.
it was built with updating, expantion and paying once to play whenever. its not meant to last forever.
The problem in a nutshell is to many people telling others how to play the game .. and if it's not the same way as them it's wrong ..
People proclaim a big part of the game's attraction is that it allows you to do what you want, when you want , it's freedom .. So why when people do that and maybe use the Hearts as standard quests or the focus of their game and plans it's wrong ?
Why can't people look to complete the maps and move on ?
Why can't someone just concentrate on DE's or crafting ?
The freedom to play how you want ... as long as you play how others want you to
Play your own game and let's others do the same
GW2 plays nothing like sandbox Imho.
I'm not saying anyone's playing it wrong, or trying to tell anyone to play differently. I'm just speculating about why some people enjoy it more than others. If you prefer more directed gameplay, there's nothing wrong with that, but it might explain a few things.
Definately not saying people shouldn't complete maps or do heart quests. Obviously, those things are in the game, because they're meant to be done. I'm just saying it's not my primary focus. I get around to it, but I don't methodically go through and complete everything.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Think its much simpler. There are a group of people that really really really like this game. Then there's everyone else.