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"Held Hostage" - odd remarks made by MMO players
Pratt2112
Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
So, I was just reading another thread elsewhere on the forums and saw someone refer to subscriptions as "holding you hostage". I wanted to reply in that thread, where it would have been most relevant in the given context. I didn't want to de-rail the thread, though. So I decided to start a thread and possible discussion about it.
Another common argument to that effect is that subscriptions "make you feel obligated to play the game".
I personally find any variation on that statement to be dubious and more than a bit odd, for a variety of reasons.
To provide just a few...
1 - Games, like any hobby or form of entertainment, are completely voluntary. You play games because you want to play them. It would follow, then, that if someone has voluntarily chosen to play a game that requires a sub fee, that they did so quite knowingly and willingly. It's not like they were tricked into it with some Tom Sawyer "whitewashing the fence" routine. It would then follow that they found the game enjoyable enough to them to warrant paying the sub fee. At any time, should they find that either the game isn't fun enough anymore, or they don't have enough time to play, they just cancel and voila.. no more sub fee.
The entire transaction, from start to finish, is voluntary. You choose to sub and play. You choose to unsub and stop playing (the game going offline or an account being banned notwithstanding).
If you're feeling "obligated" or "held hostage" by something you've chosen to do voluntarily, I think maybe you need to re-evaluate your choice of entertainment.
2 - I know some have elaborated on it by saying that when you're paying a sub, you feel like you need to be playing as much as possible to get your money's worth. Well, for starters, that depends on where you derive your sense of "value" from.
If it's a matter of quantity/how much you're playing, and you're that driven to squeezing out every penny's worth, empathetically, I can imagine it being an issue. I'd also opine that it's not the most ideal reason to be playing the game. Again, my assumption being that you're playing the game in the first place because you find it fun and want to play it.
Another way of looking at it - the way I do personally - is that the value comes from how much fun I'm having while I'm logged in. Whether it's 10, 20 or 50 hours a month I'm playing, whatever I'm doing for that time, as long as I'm enjoying myself, the sub fee is worth every penny. I don't even second guess it. I'm paying a nominal fee for a month's worth of "all I can eat" entertainment, and I'm getting it. Nice, simple and straight-forward.
It also makes me wonder how people who feel that way about MMO subs feel about other subscription-based services, of which there are many. How about Cable or Satelite TV? Do people feel like they're "held hostage" to that? Do they feel they need to be watching the TV as much as possible to make it worth the money? How about magazines or newspapers? Do they read every single issue cover to cover - even the things that don't interest them - to make sure they're "getting their sub's worth"? I have a hunch that most people, at least, don't. So why are MMOs a special case?
Where exactly is the "hostage" situation here?
By all means, share some feedback on this. Perhaps there are angles or circumstances I haven't considered. Just please keep it to the topic at hand, which is the idea of "being held hostage by a subscription payment", or "feeling obligated because of a subscription fee". This isn't about cash shops, or which payment model is superior... Please leave those arguments for another thread, of which there are already plenty.
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
$.50 a day to play a game? Wow that is nothing compared to how much I used to drop in the arcade per month. Another battle cry of the entitlement age I suppose. I am pretty sure that kids today would run away from the arcades in tears if faced with the level of competition that existed back then. You win you get to keep playing. You lose you move to the back of the line.
THe best part of it was the complete lack of balance. If you were terrible it showed. There was no magical progression gear that would put the playing field on a curve. You either won or lost. You did it with skill or maybe some dumb luck, but YOU did it.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Thank heavens the folks at CCP found an excellent way to resolve the issue with time based skill training.
People still hate it.
I've never viewed sub fees this way, I see it as the company making the game available to me in a month, and its entirely up to me whether I play it a little or a lot.
I think it's pretty great if I end up getting like 50+ hours of fun out of game in a month, more if I have the free time, less if not.
I don't try to value the purchase by the minute, the sub fee is inconsequental for the most part, unless of course I'm paying for 5 subs at a time (which I have in the past)
But even then I still find MMORPG's to be the best entertainment value out there, damn movies cost me about 40.00 a throw, toss in the dinner before hand the wife insists on and I'm out close to 100.00 every Saturday night.
My gaming habit is small change compared to that, (and let's not even talk about the money my children drain from me)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Pretty sure this stems from children harrassing their parents for a month's worth of playtime, then frantically trying to "enjoy" it, fully aware that they'll have to go through the same song & dance with their parents again next month.
In fact, this dynamic of the player / sub-payer not being the same person, rather them being a dependant and their caretaker, is probably why GW2 is so successful. Obviously people on a budget come into play as well, but most people like that, that I know, opt for full free 2 play instead, so no, not really.
Well, this is really deserving of its own thread, but because you bring it up as related to the topic at hand, I'll just offer this...
Are you referring to the whole "people who play more than me get farther than I do, and that's not fair" thing?"
Objectively, what "curve" have you fallen behind?
If everyone has the same challenges to overcome, the same content to complete, the same leveling curve to deal with, the same fees to pay and so forth... then what's unfair about it? How, exactly, is that insidious or manipulative?
Simple answer: It isn't.
That whole attitude is derived 100% from jealousy. It has nothing to do with the game.
There are people who, for some reason, can't enjoy what they're doing as long as they know there are others who've done, achieved and earned more than they have. Instead of just enjoying their own experience for what it is, they constantly brood over the idea that someone is farther along than they are, and how unfair it is.
It's not unfair. It's absolutely logical.
If two people decide to play golf, non-competitively, on the same day, on the same course, using the same gear and paying the same country-club fee, during the same weather conditions, but one starts 30 minutes before the other... all else being equal, the one who started sooner is going to be farther along. Correct?
Does that mean the person who started later should stand at the beginning of the golf course, shaking their fist and cursing the golf course designers, or the country club for creating and running such a manipulative and insidious golf course design?
Do they let the fact that someone is farther along than them hang over their every shot like an oppressive shadow, crushing their enjoyment of the game, because no matter how many shots they make, they'll never "catch up" or be finished at the same time as the person who started before them?
Or, do they not worry about what others are doing or have done, and just play their own game of golf 'cause that's, presumably, what they're there to do? Maybe they even do something like wishing that other player a good game?
Same exact thing applies to MMOs.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...
There is always someone who has trained harder than you.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Agreed
In my opinion, and I really do say his with the most sincere honesty, I believe the issue is people having internet access that shouldn't be allowed to handle a butter knife.
Maybe I'm just getting more and more cynical as I get older, but it's things like what the OP pointed out that makes it difficult for me to read forums anymore. I see that written a lot on this forum and I often find myself wondering if some of the people use it as simply another way of saying game X sucks because, or people really do think that way. If they really do think that way, how in the world do they manage to breathe while sleeping?
I mean, the first responce to the OP goes off into the whole "if you don't play, you don't keep up with everyone else"; which oddly has absolutely nothing to do with a game having a subscription or not. Zero, zilch, nada. Nothing what-so-ever. How in the world does tiered content have anything at all to do with a subscription?
And it's not just the subscription responce either. Seriously, if another intelligent race from across the galaxy ever found us, and they read a forum, these in particular, they'd likely exterminate the lot of us for fear that we might infect the rest of the universe. I can't help but feel that maybe they'd be justified.
Most of the posters here are punk kids.
Punk kids create teenage drama.
Teenage drama is not indicative of the overall state of things as a whole.
Ignore the remarks.
I really want to believe this, but I do not beleve that all the people make the sort of statements that the OP pointed out are lying when they liste their age as being 30+. Far to many grown people writtign the most absurd things for them to all be teenagers.
I don't even think it's a bunch of trolls.
As a matter of course, I do
.
It doesn't affect me in any way. I'm just a very curious fellow, and so I tend to wonder why things happen. This is one of them.
It's a further curiosity because I've seen such statements used in PR for companies pushing alternate revenue models.
lol interesting point!
When I read that, I was reminded of the Denis Leary routine about kids nagging him while he's on the phone.
"Dad dad dad dad dad dad dad..."
"What?!"
"Can I have a cookie?"
People that can't afford $15 shouldn't be playing games anyways. They should be looking for a job or a better paying one.
Held hostage? Those poor, poor "victims".
I agree with the paragraph that says people shouldn't complain about the things they've chosen to do. This applies to subscriptions, open world pvp servers and anything else where the player has a choice before doing something.
Otherwise, this seems like a very long winded attempt at calling people cheap.
1) Just because a subscription is affordable doesn't mean it's worth what you're spending.
2) A lot of the responses ignore the mental gymnastics that go into subscription based services. The user starts the subscription period at a deficit. They've paid the money, but haven't received anything yet. So they need to make up that deficit by the end of the month. It's all subjective though, the only defined value is the amount of the subscription. Everything else is left up to the player' mind. That feeling of being at a deficit may never actually go away. I think calling it a hostage situation is hyperbole, but there can be a feeling of never actually getting ahead or breaking even when there is any available time not played.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You make valid points. But, you're using rational thought and I don't think rational thought has anything to do with how "they" think.
1. If this was the case, the game developers should make it worth $15, not change nothing and make it f2p (i.g. SWTOR). Otherwise, smart people will just move on.
2. It's pretty clear that this is the deal when you subscribe. But again, people with rational thought understand this and don't have a problem with it.
People without rational thought allow overly sensitive feelings to do the thinking for them. These are the people we are dealing with.
You know them. The victims. They are entitled and believe everything should be free, whether its on the backs of taxpayers or those who use cash shops (same principle).
Then you have the "Everybody is a winner" generation coming into their 20's.
As I said, you make a good rational explaination of this type of attitude, but it doesn't pertain to the 20% out there. They are the squeeky wheel and demand grease.
Tiered model is in all business models though. It is also present in f2p games that were f2p from begginig, and of course in freemium models and in sub models as well. There is nothing that would prevent creating b2p+cash shop game with tiered progression as well.
Also not all subscription based games are about tiered linear progression that punish you if you don't play.
It's not about "value". Based on what you've said, you could just lower a subscription and everything would be OK. It wouldn't. There are people for whom a subscription model simply doesn't work, no matter how little it costs. I tried to explain why. Obviously it didn't work, probably because I'm guessing.
What I know is this. If I'm playing a game with a subscription, I feel like I need to play to not feel like I'm wasting money. It has nothing to do with the amount of time I play, it has to do with the amount of time I don't play. Any time spent not playing is time wasted. That feeling only happens when there's a subscription involved.
So again, I think describing it as being held hostage is hyperbole. The player always has a choice to end their subscription. If the feeling is strong enough to be described as being held hostage, they should end their subscription.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
@lizardbones
I understand and don't understand at same time.
Why do you think like you're wasting anything if you don't play (alot I presume?)
1. Do you think like you're wasting something if you don't talk as much as possible by cellphone if you have 'unlinited calls' plan?
2. Or even if you have let's say 200 minutes "free" per month if the month ends? You then call anyone even if you had no intention just to use all of them?
Take note. I am not attacking you. I am just simply curious.
Well, that's a personall thing, but i can understand the feeling. I prefer paying a flat fee over dealing with stupid cash shops, but sometimes i may want to play other games and the sub makes me think if i'll get enough time out of it.
However, i disagree with you about feeling that time not playing is time wasted. IMO, it depends on the game's quality and amount of time spent. If i spent a whole weekend playing some game i loved for hours and hours, i'd probably feel good then. The rest, whatever.
But again, it's all personal after all.
1. I didn't say it was rational. It just is. As soon as the clock starts ticking on the time spent not playing, the feeling of wasting money starts. The time spent playing is irrelevant. I think it's because of the way subs are setup. I'm paying ahead of time, and haven't received my 'goods'. I'll have to play to get my money's worth. For some reason, the connection between time played and money paid doesn't exist. There is only a vague feeling on needing to play because I've already paid. Again, I never said this was a rational thing. It's part of my monkey brain and it often doesn't tell me why it does what it does.
2. With phones, it's not the same thing. I need to think about why for a bit because I'm still wondering myself. It could be that the phone service is paid for after the fact, so I get my service first, then pay for it. It could be something as simple as the fact that I have a physical product in my hand, available whenever I want it. It could be that I'm anti-social and the few bits of text and voice that I do use are more than enough for me. Not sure I can give you a good answer to that question. Again, keep in mind I never said this was a rational thing. I'm pointing out that it does exist and it's not based on a cost benefit type of value.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It's pretty simple, and comes down to individuals.
There are probably a lot more too, I'm just listing some off the top of my head.
If you asked me which type I am: Nowadays I have time to play maybe 2-3 days a week, but I've gone through times where (due to being laid off at work, for example) I've had nothing but time and played 8-10 hours a day every day. I reckon it averages out over time, and I'll happily pay a sub to a game I enjoy whether or not I have time to play it or not. Only rule I have is one sub at a time, one month at a time. That way if I stop having fun I can just walk away and move on to another game....or just read more books.
Me and a friend used to go to arcade 3-4 days a week and we each had several 1 euros coins (and our country pre-euro coin) and play for a couple mins. I I don't how much money we would spend a week for a couple mins of joy, probably around 10 euros(that’s a lot for students a week).
Do I fell Hostage for 14euros a month for 24/7 moments of joy? NO! I don't think subs are the problem. For me, the problem is progression, once I leave and MMO I just can’t go back because I will be so far behind that isn’t funny. Imagine all the grind I had to do If I decide to return to Rift after 1 years without playing the game…
"you are like the world revenge on sarcasm, you know that?"
One of those great lines from The Secret World
Sure thanks for explaining.
I never felt like that though.
Maybe it is because I prefer to play one mmorpg for long peroids of time and don't want to change them often?
I don't like cash shops in mmorpg's because I never know how payment will look next week. I was few times shocked with new additions to CS that totally ruined for me peronally game. Of course I can quit playing and I have done that.
Thing is I don't want to. I want to play one mmorpg for a long time and being anxious if I would not have to leave next month is taking all pleasure from a game. Not to mention huge immersion break (CS worst offender here for me) that also decrease my enjoyment.
I could not pay subcription for in example some co-op game or simple instanced game like LoL or Bf3.
So if players treat mmorpg's same as above games I can understand why they don't want to pay sub.
Kinda explain why I almost don't play mmorpg's anymore. Currently they are not really that fundamentally diffrent from lobby games for me concerning huge changes they underwent in last ~8 years or so. That is just my personal opinion ofc.
--------
2. quick about phones. You tell about cell phone plan with getting new phone?
Imagine that you have phone already and you take plan without a phone.
They are usually at least twice cheaper if you don't take new phone with them.
In that case you kinda sing up for 1 or 2 year deal and pay montly and then get service ( phine conversation, sms, mms, mobile internet, etc).
People still hate it.
I've never viewed sub fees this way, I see it as the company making the game available to me in a month, and its entirely up to me whether I play it a little or a lot.
I think it's pretty great if I end up getting like 50+ hours of fun out of game in a month, more if I have the free time, less if not.
I don't try to value the purchase by the minute, the sub fee is inconsequental for the most part, unless of course I'm paying for 5 subs at a time (which I have in the past)
But even then I still find MMORPG's to be the best entertainment value out there, damn movies cost me about 40.00 a throw, toss in the dinner before hand the wife insists on and I'm out close to 100.00 every Saturday night.
My gaming habit is small change compared to that, (and let's not even talk about the money my children drain from me)
This.