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GW2: Good Game but Boring Combat

I think GW2 did a lot of things right in game design.  I like the classes, dynamic events are much more entertaining than questing in other MMORPGS (though still really not my thing), character development is interesting, and WvWvW is a great design.  The combat really falls short for me though.  It's better than WoW in that attacks can at least hit things you didn't have tab targetted and the dodge mechanic is ok, but it really seems to come down to coming up with a build and then just hitting hot keys when they come off cooldown.   I liked the combat in TERA a lot better but the rest of that game sucked pretty bad.  Hot key cool down just doesn't do it for me I guess.  Truth is, I probably just hate MMROPG's, at least until we get a real skill based action MMORPG that isn't just a mindless click fest. 

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Comments

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990
    Eh...can't say I agree. I find it pretty fun with how fluid combat is and how mobile you need to be. Plus setting up some attacks can be pretty fun such as doing a blazing speed + flame wall + aoe burster.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan
    I think GW2 did a lot of things right in game design.  I like the classes, dynamic events are much more entertaining than questing in other MMORPGS (though still really not my thing), character development is interesting, and WvWvW is a great design.  The combat really falls short for me though.  It's better than WoW in that attacks can at least hit things you didn't have tab targetted and the dodge mechanic is ok, but it really seems to come down to coming up with a build and then just hitting hot keys when they come off cooldown.   I liked the combat in TERA a lot better but the rest of that game sucked pretty bad.  Hot key cool down just doesn't do it for me I guess.  Truth is, I probably just hate MMROPG's, at least until we get a real skill based action MMORPG that isn't just a mindless click fest. 

     

    Ah, found your problem. Keep in mind that your skills have the alleged "soft trinity" tied directly to them. So look at your skills and you'll notice that they have an assortment of damage, controlling and supporting aspects tied to them. For example, my mesmer with his greatsword has skill 1 as damage, 2 as damage and supporting allies, 3 as AoE damage, 4 as damage and control and 5 damage and control. 5 only works at close range, so spamming it off cooldown is a waste. 4 has a bit of a wind up and is best used early in combat, before they get close.

     

    In a nutshell, go look at your skills and what they really do. Then you'll need to learn to use them at the right times, not simply off cooldown when many useful attributes would be wastd.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • PurgatusPurgatus Member Posts: 342
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan
    ... at least until we get a real skill based action MMORPG that isn't just a mindless click fest. 

    Its funny. That is precicly what I consider GW2 to be. A real skill based action MMORPG that isn't just a mindless click fest.  It's emphasis on timing and position make all the differnece in the world. Perhaps you just need more time to learn it. Or its just not for you.

  • gelraengelraen Member UncommonPosts: 243

    Oh man, I so disagree with your subject line!  I find it the most interesting combat that I've experienced in a game in quite a while.    How far have you leveled up?

    I found one interesting thing on hitting about level 22 or so, was that the combat got a lot harder.  By that I mean you have to really know your class to survive... which was something I didn't expect them to do.  I thought it would be more "casual friendly" I guess, but damn it's rough in some places, and I like that.   I hope they don't nerf it to death though.

     

     

  • WolvardsWolvards Member Posts: 650

    You have your opinion, and that's fine, I respect that. But from my personal time playing a little SPvP, my feeling is the opposite.

    Sure PvE you can faceroll on cooldowns at lower levles (anyhting under levle 30). But even then, certain fights, you get in trouble just blowing everything away.

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    I really like the combat of Vindictus, TERA and GW2, but i can completely see how you'd want something more than the overused cooldown system that GW2 is using. It does seem to be a weakpoint in an otherwise action-filled combat system.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • fundayzfundayz Member Posts: 463
    OP you need to get to a higher level. Unless you are 20+ you have not experienced the true combat of GW2.

    Many people have complained that the combat is mindless but almost every single time they take it back after they reach high zones and mobs become stronger and have more skills.

    You gotta remember that GW2 is a game targetting an audience larger than just the core MMO community. As such, it has to ease players to many of it's mechanics including DE's and combat.

    Long story short, if you mash your keys off cooldown by level 20-25 you will be dieing a LOT.
  • KostKost Member CommonPosts: 1,975

    This thread reminds me of those other threads where guys go "pfft, 5 skills? this game is garbage".

    Sheer ignorance.

  • NikkitaNikkita Member Posts: 790
    Tera has spoiled me so much that combat in every other MMOS is just bad now for me. However, there is still so much to enjoy  in GW2 even with  average combat.

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    Bite Me

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    The combat is alright.  The only thing i don't like about it?  Wasting cooldowns because i was out of range.  I'll just have to adapt though.
  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,004

    I must actually disagree with the OP( Yeah thats right! I have a few good things to say about GW2 too ). When I started playing it did look fairly bland the combat and I partially agree that it didnt really go as far as TERA which did really have superb combat, the one thing TERA didnt do and GW2 does which I think is a must from now on, is you being able to move while you do stuff, I think that is just great.

    But back on topic, when I started playing ( I played a bit of the beta for like 2h didnt really want to spoil the game at all ) I thought the combat was just a gimmicky WoW improvement, and if you play like you would play WoW that is exactly what it is, what I did quickly find out is that if you dont play it like WoW you can actually do more, not A LOT more but there are more options, the complexity really comes from switching weapons ( or the element for elementalist ) at the correct time and making sure you have the right abilities up when they are needed because most abilities do work well in synergy, if you just use them to dish out damage constantly you will quickly find out that you will be lacking something when you most need it. 

    As a ranger I also found that using your pet effectively again in synergy with your skills to be a must for success and takes some practice, I am still a bit far off the mark in that respect but getting there. For me personally half the fun is also figuring out what two weapons work together with what abilities and how can I employ them in a wide variety of situations in a manner that I will never be unprepared when I need it the most.

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  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858

    I disagree, the combat is very good imho. Using your weapon skills at the right time and swapping between them is simple and makes much more sense to me than having 20 button scattered all over the place. 

    You are welcome to your opinion but I'm sure it would be hard to convince the people playing and having a good time of it. :0

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    I take it fromt he OP and some of the replies here that quite a few of you dont realize something very simple about the combat and cooldowns. You can swap weapons on the fly (or in the case of elementalist, change attunements, and engi can change packs). After you fire your bigger long cooldown skills, swap weapons/attunement and guess what.... no skills on cooldown. Cast all those skills, swap back again. I do this a lot on my ranger with being able to equip 2 different types of bows and swap between them for a mix of AoEs and CC with very little time spent waiting on cooldowns.
  • KrytycalKrytycal Member Posts: 520

    Why do people assume you need to level up to experience the combat? Newsflash: the most competitive aspect of GW2's combat is readily accessible to any character that completes the introduction quests. It's called 5vs5 tournaments. As someone who has spent 3 consecutive BWE, many stress tests and the entire head start weekend doing sPvP and tournaments (which by the way lets you play with every class at max level) I can tell you GW2's combat is far from innovative. Sure the dodge roll is nice, and so is directional targeting, but those things are not new. Weapon swap is no different than having to keep track of two ability bars, only difference is in GW2 one is hidden from you (for the classes that have weapon swap). The combat or perceived "skill" in this game boils down to knowing your abilities, knowing what your opponents can do, and knowing how to counter them, like basically every other MMO.

    I get the combat. I have mastered 2-3 classes in PvP to the point I feel confident I can win in 95% of encounters against other players. The combat/PvP is fun, but I wouldn't call it innovative, much less groundbreaking or revolutionary. It's your traditional MMO combat with some goodies sprinkled on top. If you don't enjoy traditional MMO combat, you will probably not like GW2's combat.

  • gessekai332gessekai332 Member UncommonPosts: 861
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan
    I think GW2 did a lot of things right in game design.  I like the classes, dynamic events are much more entertaining than questing in other MMORPGS (though still really not my thing), character development is interesting, and WvWvW is a great design.  The combat really falls short for me though.  It's better than WoW in that attacks can at least hit things you didn't have tab targetted and the dodge mechanic is ok, but it really seems to come down to coming up with a build and then just hitting hot keys when they come off cooldown.   I liked the combat in TERA a lot better but the rest of that game sucked pretty bad.  Hot key cool down just doesn't do it for me I guess.  Truth is, I probably just hate MMROPG's, at least until we get a real skill based action MMORPG that isn't just a mindless click fest. 

    oh my god, one of these again. these are the same people that cry for nerfs when they hit higher lvl content or try to play pvp and get pwned because they think they are playing the game right by mashing buttons.

     

    UUGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

     

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    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    I take it fromt he OP and some of the replies here that quite a few of you dont realize something very simple about the combat and cooldowns. You can swap weapons on the fly (or in the case of elementalist, change attunements, and engi can change packs). After you fire your bigger long cooldown skills, swap weapons/attunement and guess what.... no skills on cooldown. Cast all those skills, swap back again. I do this a lot on my ranger with being able to equip 2 different types of bows and swap between them for a mix of AoEs and CC with very little time spent waiting on cooldowns.

    Playing my elementalist, switching between elements ROCKED and added a lot to the action of the combat. Howewver, I haven't yet figured out a way to easily switch between Rifle and 2 Pistols without a lot of clicking around... part of which is making sure Ihave the right two pistols from my bag.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PurgatusPurgatus Member Posts: 342
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Tera has spoiled me so much that combat in every other MMOS is just bad now for me. However, there is still so much to enjoy  in GW2 even with  average combat.

    Good example of how different people like different things in games. I thought TERA's combat was aweful, but I love the combat in GW2. We can all like something different.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    I am playing a thief, we dont have cooldowns for our attacks, just for some utility skills. Instead you use initiative that slowly fills up and if you spams you skills you will die fast.

    I have not played all classes so OP might be right about some but in my expeirence you really need to time some skills when you play or die.

    Compared to traditional MMO combat like say, EQ2 this is rather different, you must move almost all the time and positioning and the timing of certain skills is life and death.

    Of course the first few levels you can probably just spam the keys but it wont work for long. Make a thief OP.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    I take it fromt he OP and some of the replies here that quite a few of you dont realize something very simple about the combat and cooldowns. You can swap weapons on the fly (or in the case of elementalist, change attunements, and engi can change packs). After you fire your bigger long cooldown skills, swap weapons/attunement and guess what.... no skills on cooldown. Cast all those skills, swap back again. I do this a lot on my ranger with being able to equip 2 different types of bows and swap between them for a mix of AoEs and CC with very little time spent waiting on cooldowns.

    Playing my elementalist, switching between elements ROCKED and added a lot to the action of the combat. Howewver, I haven't yet figured out a way to easily switch between Rifle and 2 Pistols without a lot of clicking around... part of which is making sure Ihave the right two pistols from my bag.

    Sounds like youre playing an Engi. Just like Eleementalists with their attunements, Engis dont have 2 weapon sets they can swap by pressing 1 key, because you have the packs (grenade, bomb, etc) as your weapon swapping. Other classes dont have such tools, so they have the 2 weapon sets available.

  • KrytycalKrytycal Member Posts: 520
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I am playing a thief, we dont have cooldowns for our attacks, just for some utility skills. Instead you use initiative that slowly fills up and if you spams you skills you will die fast.

    I have not played all classes so OP might be right about some but in my expeirence you really need to time some skills when you play or die.

    Compared to traditional MMO combat like say, EQ2 this is rather different, you must move almost all the time and positioning and the timing of certain skills is life and death.

    Of course the first few levels you can probably just spam the keys but it wont work for long. Make a thief OP.

    What you described is basically how the "rogue" or "assassin" classes are played in a slew of MMOs. You have attacks that build initiative, you have finishers that consume it. You need to know when to use which, when it's best to blow your load, and when it's best to GTFO. Moving and positioning has always been important in every MMO I've played. It's really no different in GW2.

    The only aspect in GW2's PvP I'd call remotely innovative is the fact there are no dedicated healers.

  • LydonLydon Member UncommonPosts: 2,927
    I don't agree at all. What about skill combos between classes? What about - as a Mesmer, for example - choosing whether to shatter clones, when to shatter clones, or what shatter to use for the situation? Teleporting in and out of combat, turning invisible and confusing the heck out of people is the most fun I've had in MMO combat ever. Combat is one of GW2's best features IMHO.

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  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,211
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I am playing a thief, we dont have cooldowns for our attacks, just for some utility skills. Instead you use initiative that slowly fills up and if you spams you skills you will die fast.

    I have not played all classes so OP might be right about some but in my expeirence you really need to time some skills when you play or die.

    Compared to traditional MMO combat like say, EQ2 this is rather different, you must move almost all the time and positioning and the timing of certain skills is life and death.

    Of course the first few levels you can probably just spam the keys but it wont work for long. Make a thief OP.

    Yep OP needs to roll a thief, cooldown free for the most part.  I think the combat is one of the games strong points actually.

     

    Also look at the bright side OP, you don't have to start stop, start stop on every little piddly shot. 

  • DarnRightDarnRight Member Posts: 66

    Not being overly complicated <> boring.

    GW2 has one of the nicest combat systems I have played yet; versatile without being stuffy.

  • EberhardtEberhardt Member UncommonPosts: 157
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan
    I think GW2 did a lot of things right in game design.  I like the classes, dynamic events are much more entertaining than questing in other MMORPGS (though still really not my thing), character development is interesting, and WvWvW is a great design.  The combat really falls short for me though.  It's better than WoW in that attacks can at least hit things you didn't have tab targetted and the dodge mechanic is ok, but it really seems to come down to coming up with a build and then just hitting hot keys when they come off cooldown.   I liked the combat in TERA a lot better but the rest of that game sucked pretty bad.  Hot key cool down just doesn't do it for me I guess.  Truth is, I probably just hate MMROPG's, at least until we get a real skill based action MMORPG that isn't just a mindless click fest. 

    I think you're doing it wrong. wait till like level 15 or 20ish mobs get pretty damn hard and will klick your butt. Especially if youre not use to dodging. Dodging is so damn important in this game its stupid. And if you're standing still and just using your skills...you will most definitely die. Especially if you do Ascalon catacombs. The game just isn't meant to be played as a stand still and wait for cool downs game. If that's what youre doing...you are doing it wrong. And it will come back to haunt you later on. Trust me.

    Also someone mentioned the OP should make a thief...have him make a mesmer too. The mesmer is all about positioning. up close mesmers really dont have much going unless youre using swords. It's all about clones and where you put them. So you not only have to track yourself and where you are in relation to mobs, but your clones, what they are doing, where they are, if they die, and how many you have(up to 3). It gets pretty complex and you HAVE to stay movng otherwise mobs will just mow you down.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a defence/tactics Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

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