Space Combat on the rails is OK ?!?!

darkboaz · August 2012

LOL just read a thing where the devs say their own numbers show at least half of all players have played a space mission in the last month…. I guess he forgot that in the live event for the first few days you could auto complete the event by doing a space mission on the Imp side.

They also scraped the join dates from the forums.

Karteli · August 2012

Originally posted by darkboaz

LOL just read a thing where the devs say their own numbers show at least half of all players have played a space mission in the last month…. I guess he forgot that in the live event for the first few days you could auto complete the event by doing a space mission on the Imp side.

They also scraped the join dates from the forums.

Don't know what metrics they use, but when I played I did space missions to level up because doing the same quests over and over was more lame than a rail shooter. After awhile I can't really say they were all that fun though ...

I think the join dates were scrapped possibly for a few reasons

---Removing dates helps hide how most people enjoying the game are very new.

---Posters can claim to be long term fans and not be challenged (To followup the above).

---It helps mask EA employees who are encourage to join the forums under multiple new accounts and promote EA / F2P / microtransactions / game fun, while putting down other competing games, etc.

Pure speculation of course! But I doubt EA would go through the trouble of doing something if there wasn't some sort of financial gain tied to it.

Misaris · August 2012

No, I still think the railshooter was an insult and still is. Waiting for a total revamp.

azmundai · August 2012

is it better than no space combat? sure

spin doctors, gonna spin.

Weretigar · August 2012

Originally posted by Misaris
No, I still think the railshooter was an insult and still is. Waiting for a total revamp.

I agree with this however I don't think the engine could handle a better space simulation.

Slampig · August 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by darkboaz

LOL just read a thing where the devs say their own numbers show at least half of all players have played a space mission in the last month…. I guess he forgot that in the live event for the first few days you could auto complete the event by doing a space mission on the Imp side.

They also scraped the join dates from the forums.

Don't know what metrics they use, but when I played I did space missions to level up because doing the same quests over and over was more lame than a rail shooter. After awhile I can't really say they were all that fun though ...

I think the join dates were scrapped possibly for a few reasons

---Removing dates helps hide how most people enjoying the game are very new.

---Posters can claim to be long term fans and not be challenged (To followup the above).

---It helps mask EA employees who are encourage to join the forums under multiple new accounts and promote EA / F2P / microtransactions / game fun, while putting down other competing games, etc.

Pure speculation of course! But I doubt EA would go through the trouble of doing something if there wasn't some sort of financial gain tied to it.

My first question is this, if people are new and enjoying the game are they going to be mocked like the people that actually had fun playing SWG after the changes that took place?

And as far as the second points you make, where do you get this information, or is it speculation? Oh wait, you even admit it is speculation, good game...

Karteli · August 2012

Originally posted by Slampig
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by darkboaz

LOL just read a thing where the devs say their own numbers show at least half of all players have played a space mission in the last month…. I guess he forgot that in the live event for the first few days you could auto complete the event by doing a space mission on the Imp side.

They also scraped the join dates from the forums.

Don't know what metrics they use, but when I played I did space missions to level up because doing the same quests over and over was more lame than a rail shooter. After awhile I can't really say they were all that fun though ...

I think the join dates were scrapped possibly for a few reasons

---Removing dates helps hide how most people enjoying the game are very new.

---Posters can claim to be long term fans and not be challenged (To followup the above).

---It helps mask EA employees who are encourage to join the forums under multiple new accounts and promote EA / F2P / microtransactions / game fun, while putting down other competing games, etc.

Pure speculation of course! But I doubt EA would go through the trouble of doing something if there wasn't some sort of financial gain tied to it.

My first question is this, if people are new and enjoying the game are they going to be mocked like the people that actually had fun playing SWG after the changes that took place?

And as far as the second points you make, where do you get this information, or is it speculation? Oh wait, you even admit it is speculation, good game...

Of course it was speculation, that's why I even said it was. But the rationale was founded upon EA's history of not doing anything unless it has benefits they can enjoy. Certainly keeping players from being mocked and continuing to subscribe would be a benefit. I'm glad you can read into what people say and repeat it :P

New people would not want to be mocked, that much we can agree on. But the point was made to go deeper and look into what kind of people are actually enjoying the game (ie brand new players mixed with a few dedicated SW fans who will never unsub regardless of quality issues and entertainment longevity) + those who exist only in a tightly controlled EA environment, also known as the official forums (for this game or any, really). After all it's their forums, they can post on it and run it as they see fit ... hence the tinfoil hat theories.

tiefighter25 · August 2012

Originally posted by Karteli

I think the join dates were scrapped possibly for a few reasons

---Removing dates helps hide how most people enjoying the game are very new.

---Posters can claim to be long term fans and not be challenged (To followup the above).

---It helps mask EA employees who are encourage to join the forums under multiple new accounts and promote EA / F2P / microtransactions / game fun, while putting down other competing games, etc.

Pure speculation of course! But I doubt EA would go through the trouble of doing something if there wasn't some sort of financial gain tied to it.

There were many, for lack of a better term, Bioware Astroturfers on the SWTOR forums. The rumor was that they were Bioware employees who were idle "repurposed" to attempt to manipulate the public opinion of the "Vox Populi" on their forums.

Following the layoffs, there is only one notorious one left. If you want a laugh search their forums for "Andryah".

She carpet bombs the site over a hundred times an hour while on duty. Now that the game has lost so many subs, the forum traffic has diminished greatly. I'm not sure if they realize it, but having the same person show up multiple times in every thread defending the game like it was the Alamo make the ruse blatantly obvious.

She also dabbles in TSW forums, same name and sig. (EA published)

Someone purporting to be her came on another site and claimed she worked for Bioware-Austin in the Audio department, and gave her "real name". She said that her bosses said there was no more work for her to do so either she astroturf the forums or collect unemployment. Her "real name" (a variant of her forum name) led to someone on the Bioware staff working in the voice-over department. Either it was the truth or a pretty elaborate troll. My guess the former is more likely then the later.

I won't give her name because I'm not seeking the mods to decide if it's ban worthy, and to be honest, I feel bad for Andryah.

Although what she is doing is pretty despicable, it's not what she signed up for. If she is who she says she is, she did her job pretty well. If you or I had our boss give us the same ultimatum in these economic times, you would probably do the same thing. Although her forum jousting relies heavily on logical fallacies, she seems pretty smart. She also seems pretty talented. Then again I'm a sucker for a pretty face. It's sad when the monkeys upstairs are dumber then the talented misused people downstairs.

Of coursse this is just alleged.

Anyway, Kartell brought up a valid point; I just elaborated on it a lot.

tiefighter25 · August 2012

* I feel bad for people forced into astroturfing, I have no mercy for those who seek it as a profession.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%20Didn%27t%20Ask%20For%20This

<jpeg insert: Deus Ex meme gone bad.> hardy har har.

ForumPvP · August 2012

Originally posted by azmundai
is it better than no space combat? sure

spin doctors, gonna spin.

is that 2000 century space combat ?

no its not and therefore its not space combat at all.

its space insult.

Domarks,Empire Strikes back ,from 80s,taking out the AT-ATs and AT-ST with your guns and tow cables.

Domarks,Star Wars, it was possible to fly on Death Stars tunnels and blow it up.

and much much ,so much more than this spacce combat on SWTOR,its an insult.

Even there they force people to press space bar,and somekind of barrel roll happens.

SuperXero89 · August 2012

KOTOR was never about space combat. The fact that so many people seemed to expect fully-featured space flight in the MMO based on the hit titles shows me that those people really don't have a lot of experience with the KOTOR series.

tiefighter25 · August 2012

Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by azmundai
is it better than no space combat? sure

spin doctors, gonna spin.

is that 2000 century space combat ?

no its not and therefore its not space combat at all.

its space insult.

Domarks,Empire Strikes back ,from 80s,taking out the AT-ATs and AT-ST with your guns and tow cables.

Domarks,Star Wars, it was possible to fly on Death Stars tunnels and blow it up.

and much much ,so much more than this spacce combat on SWTOR,its an insult.

Even there they force people to press space bar,and somekind of barrel roll happens.

Although that makes a good point, more relevant is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt-Jk3TmodY an early Alpha built by an indie in 2009.

Or you could link to this FU statement thrown together proof of concept http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To5YvCds2Qg.

Karteli · August 2012

Originally posted by tiefighter25

There were many, for lack of a better term, Bioware Astroturfers on the SWTOR forums. The rumor was that they were Bioware employees who were idle "repurposed" to attempt to manipulate the public opinion of the "Vox Populi" on their forums.

Following the layoffs, there is only one notorious one left. If you want a laugh search their forums for "Andryah".

She carpet bombs the site over a hundred times an hour while on duty. Now that the game has lost so many subs, the forum traffic has diminished greatly. I'm not sure if they realize it, but having the same person show up multiple times in every thread defending the game like it was the Alamo make the ruse blatantly obvious.

She also dabbles in TSW forums, same name and sig. (EA published)

Someone purporting to be her came on another site and claimed she worked for Bioware-Austin in the Audio department, and gave her "real name". She said that her bosses said there was no more work for her to do so either she astroturf the forums or collect unemployment. Her "real name" (a variant of her forum name) led to someone on the Bioware staff working in the voice-over department. Either it was the truth or a pretty elaborate troll. My guess the former is more likely then the later.

I won't give her name because I'm not seeking the mods to decide if it's ban worthy, and to be honest, I feel bad for Andryah.

Although what she is doing is pretty despicable, it's not what she signed up for. If she is who she says she is, she did her job pretty well. If you or I had our boss give us the same ultimatum in these economic times, you would probably do the same thing. Although her forum jousting relies heavily on logical fallacies, she seems pretty smart. She also seems pretty talented. Then again I'm a sucker for a pretty face. It's sad when the monkeys upstairs are dumber then the talented misused people downstairs.

Of coursse this is just alleged.

Anyway, Kartell brought up a valid point; I just elaborated on it a lot.

Cool thanks TF for the info. That is very interesting. The responses are humorous, defending every aspect of microtransactions and how everyone loves them while anyone on the forums is snubbed as the minority LOL! There was just under 1000 hits from the past week alone on a google site search for www.swtor.com + Andryah. There are about 700 unique occurances of her signature "Feeling Entitled =/= Being Entitled" also in the past week on www.swtor.com .. which if accurate means she generates more new posts than people use her name or respond to her.

Reading these .. you made my day! lol .. she is indeed extremely busy. In a 5-day work week about 140 posts per day... In an alleged work week, that is.

ForumPvP · August 2012

Originally posted by tiefighter25
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by azmundai
is it better than no space combat? sure

spin doctors, gonna spin.

is that 2000 century space combat ?

no its not and therefore its not space combat at all.

its space insult.

Domarks,Empire Strikes back ,from 80s,taking out the AT-ATs and AT-ST with your guns and tow cables.

Domarks,Star Wars, it was possible to fly on Death Stars tunnels and blow it up.

and much much ,so much more than this spacce combat on SWTOR,its an insult.

Even there they force people to press space bar,and somekind of barrel roll happens.

Although that makes a good point, more relevant is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt-Jk3TmodY an early Alpha built by an indie in 2009.

Or you could link to this FU statement thrown together proof of concept http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To5YvCds2Qg.

Yees,thats why it is an insult against every gamer in the universe.

"we have this lollipop,it tastes so good ,do you want it ? "

-yes,please master developer.

"with full strength developer stabs lolllipop into customers eyeball"

it is possible to do beautiful things with that engine,but also terrible.

Karteli · August 2012

The whole astroturfing discussion was interesting. It is quite the talk on other (some very prominent gaming site) forums. Mention of the term got me looking deeper into past events.mentioned earlier .. (and this all started with EA removing join dates ... )

There was an interesting article, which is a bit aged, but interesting. No names were named, just left as anonymous. Take it for what you will.

EA Viral Marketing Exposed, Big Buyout On The Horizon?

published: 2012-03-27 21:15:06

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/EA-Viral-Marketing-Exposed-Big-Buyout-Horizon-40885.html

The Andryah snafu crept up a couple months later, around May 2012.

On another note, Astroturfing violates the FTC Endorsement and Advertising Guidelines, under section 255.5 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div8&view=text&node=16:1.0.1.2.22.0.5.6&idno=16). It would have to consist of a very select group of loyalists. But even then, it's vague, because upon reveal it may be somewhat tangibly legal if the job description specifically indicates posting on forums to "educate".

Furthering that, a smear campaign got Facebook in some big doodoo a couple years ago. I guess astroturfers nowadays are careful to reveal differences between products and not specifically smear a competitors product or its designers (ie: that game sucks, developers for that "other" game are retards, etc), or instigate arguments & downplay another game outside of a comparison context (under the guise of educational discussion).

If something more recent comes up it would be worthy of a new article posting. Hmm..

Of course there is another possibility: Andryah is a genetically engineered troll, capable of unheard of endurance in an effort to drive customers away in order to get SWG back :P (extra large tinfoil hat pls!)

IG-88 · August 2012

Well, if todays players of SWTOR enjoys the spacecombat, congratulations, good for you!

I have no interest of belittle you or your game.

For the rest of us, who grew up with X-Wing, TieFighter, SWG and know how good and exciting

a spacecombat could be, i guess we have to wait a bit more. And instead of trolling, just leave the game you dont enjoy.

I did.

Morv · August 2012

I personally loved the space portion, not that I wouldn't prefer a more 3D environment, but that was the only part of the game I felt was fun... Sadly.. Kind of a lopsided view of it but there it is.

Bardus · August 2012

Originally posted by SuperXero89
KOTOR was never about space combat. The fact that so many people seemed to expect fully-featured space flight in the MMO based on the hit titles shows me that those people really don't have a lot of experience with the KOTOR series.

From someone with a lot of KOTOR experience, It's nothing like the series anyway. Back in those choices mattered and characters had real personality.

ericlatrelle · August 2012

Originally posted by SuperXero89
KOTOR was never about space combat. The fact that so many people seemed to expect fully-featured space flight in the MMO based on the hit titles shows me that those people really don't have a lot of experience with the KOTOR series.

Oh really. We also expected pazaak, sabbac, actual lightside/darkside to mean something, customizable companion characters and open explorable worlds without corridors. All those things that are in the actual KOTOR series and NOT in SWTOR. Guess we shouldn't have been expecting those things too, huh?

theAsna · August 2012

Originally posted by darkboaz

LOL just read a thing where the devs say their own numbers show at least half of all players have played a space mission in the last month…. I guess he forgot that in the live event for the first few days you could auto complete the event by doing a space mission on the Imp side.

They also scraped the join dates from the forums.

That's the problem with statistics. There are hardly any other mini games. Even if you don't like space-on-rail, you can still do some space missions (a space mission takes about 4-5mins) and get some money, commendations and experience. It's the ideal filler if you are waiting for the group finder putting you in a group for a flashpoint or until the warzone starts.

Actually, if they had non-railed space missions and railed space missions side by side then and only then could you see what people liked most. As it's now it's like having a starved person and offering him/her the leftovers from a month before. And just because they will still take it (because they are tarved) doesn't mean that they really like it.

tiefighter25 · August 2012

When a ""mini-game" is so linear that bot programs can run it 24-7, it's time to put it out of its misery. The only reason Bioware keeps pushing these out is because it is tremendusly cheap for them to do in comparison to anything else and claim new content.

The big secret to the secret space program is that there isn't one.

gervaise1 · August 2012

Originally posted by SuperXero89
KOTOR was never about space combat. The fact that so many people seemed to expect fully-featured space flight in the MMO based on the hit titles shows me that those people really don't have a lot of experience with the KOTOR series.

Maybe. However EA Bioware made a huge thing about how good the space combat was going to be - remember the big screen demonstrations? - so it is hardly surprising if some of the people who ended up buying the game did so in part because of the space combat.

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EA Viral Marketing Exposed, Big Buyout On The Horizon?

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Space Combat on the rails is OK ?!?!

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EA Viral Marketing Exposed, Big Buyout On The Horizon?