So, it is absolutely true that passion alone won't make a great game.
Remember Warhammer Online? Remember Paul Barnett? He was very passionate.
Now that was his job... but also when you heard the interviews of Mark Jacobs or the other devs speaking of the game .. it was clear Mythic really was passionate about their product.
But to see this kind of developer message and think it is "marketing" of all things? Wow. The game headstart is in less than 12 hours, what marketing is that exactly? isn't it a taaaad late???
Just sayin'
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
I agree. And this is why Blizzard and Bioware no longer make great games.
I think this is entirely true and entirely too sad
You would both be naive to think that the developers behind blizzard and bioware don't live and breathe their passion without pause, I don't even want to think about what sort of resume you need to pull a gig at blizzard.
Call those big companies sterile if you want - but the individuals behind those games are almost always passionate, you don't get that far into the industry without having a certain fire.
So, it is absolutely true that passion alone won't make a great game.
Remember Warhammer Online? Remember Paul Barnett? He was very passionate.
Now that was his job... but also when you heard the interviews of Mark Jacobs or the other devs speaking of the game .. it was clear Mythic really was passionate about their product.
But to see this kind of developer message and think it is "marketing" of all things? Wow. The game headstart is in less than 12 hours, what marketing is that exactly? isn't it a taaaad late???
Just sayin'
As far as passion is concerned. Ragnar is also extremely passionate about TSW but sadly passion alone doesn't make a great game.
I agree. And this is why Blizzard and Bioware no longer make great games.
For millions that are still enjoying Blizzard and Bioware games would disagree with you. No wonder the whole topic turned to garbage after this one post and other people's own interpretation of it.
You are very right, but myself and certainly others have been severely dissapointed with their latest offerings.
Dragon Age 1 and 2 were non-purchases for me, and ME3 was mostly amazing but the ending was just SO poor it really dragged the whole game into the mud for me.
SWTOR was a let down...
Diable 3 and WoW: MoP are pretty much the first two Blizzard games I haven't bought and will not buy.
They've changed, I've changed maybe?
There was a time I'd buy anything from Blizzard / Bioware site unseen.
I think we can all agree that the people at the top have to be passionate, as most/probably all of the worker bees actually making the game are passionate about what they do.
And I think we can all agree that passion isn't everything - people can be extremely passionate about terrible ideas too lol
But I think we can ALSO agree that there is NO reason to piss in someone's Cheerios when they are excited/happy/passionate about something and express that feeling in a positive way.
I agree. And this is why Blizzard and Bioware no longer make great games.
For millions that are still enjoying Blizzard and Bioware games would disagree with you. No wonder the whole topic turned to garbage after this one post and other people's own interpretation of it.
Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I forgot to put the IMHO in there. Bioware's last few games have sucked, IMHO. And Blizzard no longer has the creativity it once had, IMHO. And IMHO it is because they no longer have any passion for creating great games. The Blizzard CEO has been quoted saying he wanted to take the fun out of developing games, and it shows. Bioware was EAed, which can suck the life out of anybody.
I agree. And this is why Blizzard and Bioware no longer make great games.
For millions that are still enjoying Blizzard and Bioware games would disagree with you. No wonder the whole topic turned to garbage after this one post and other people's own interpretation of it.
You are very right, but myself and certainly others have been severely dissapointed with their latest offerings.
Dragon Age 1 and 2 were non-purchases for me, and ME3 was mostly amazing but the ending was just SO poor it really dragged the whole game into the mud for me.
SWTOR was a let down...
Diable 3 and WoW: MoP are pretty much the first two Blizzard games I haven't bought and will not buy.
They've changed, I've changed maybe?
There was a time I'd buy anything from Blizzard / Bioware site unseen.
DA1 was actually quite good, though I wasn't a fan of the aggro mechanics. DA2 was crap. ME3 had some great stuff, but also had some really bad elements like the ending and the fact most of the side quests were boring and lame as heck. I don't know, ME1 did a good job of making the galaxy seem large even if planet roving was very annoying. ME2 and ME3 didn't do that, disappointingly. I'd say ME2 and ME3 were good games, but it does seem like the general quality of Bioware's games have gone downhill.
Blizzard too, of course.
It's not all that surprising though. Both are dominated by companies that have decided to try to monetize their games as much as possible. And such monetization schemes affect game design. It can be as simple as a major character turned into day one DLC or splitting one game into three full-priced boxes to something like an RMAH where drop rates, item states, and so forth are adjusted to maximize the ongoing profit margin rather than to maximize fun. And frankly, it hurts both companies in the long run.
And this is definitely a big problem with a number of big companies and some indie devs.
I agree. And this is why Blizzard and Bioware no longer make great games.
For millions that are still enjoying Blizzard and Bioware games would disagree with you. No wonder the whole topic turned to garbage after this one post and other people's own interpretation of it.
Decline happens slowly. WoW is losing subs. D3 and SC2 sold less than their predecessors. ME3 certainly had more complaints than ME2 (I'm not sure about how sales evolved in the first few months of ME3, as the first month is usually dominated by pre-orders and such). DA2 sales sank quickly after word got around. SWTOR couldn't maintain its subs because of its problems and is going F2P.
So there's definitely cause for saying things aren't as good for these companies as they used to be.
Originally posted by Sirr0 Originally posted by MithrandolirI know one thing, I am damn sorry I posted this now.
You shouldn't be there is no reason this became a shit flinging contest, people need to stop being cynical and stop flame baiting. It's stupid to think this is 100% marketting, could it have market value? Absolutely, anyone who works in retail knows passion in a product sells it. It's when a product gets the "evil empire" fuzz around it, whether it deserves it or not will always look as the money grab.
Anyone who says SWTOR is 100% Corperate greed and not a bunch of hard working and passionate folks have never met a game dev before and really should look into it. I have had a cynical view in the past and screamed from the roof tops about this but you know what changed? I went to PAX East two years in a row and had actual conversations with devs.
I've chatted with developers on games on both sides of the fence both that have done good, and those who have done bad and you know whats the same? They are all have that radiance about them, but just being passionate doesn't mean you are going to suceed.
I say we all root for those guys busting their balls to make the games we play and give them the benefit of the doubt that they truly work hard to make something they love, it doesn't mean you need to like the results but at least don't deprive them of that.
I agree. And this is why Blizzard and Bioware no longer make great games.
For millions that are still enjoying Blizzard and Bioware games would disagree with you. No wonder the whole topic turned to garbage after this one post and other people's own interpretation of it.
Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I forgot to put the IMHO in there. Bioware's last few games have sucked, IMHO. And Blizzard no longer has the creativity it once had, IMHO. And IMHO it is because they no longer have any passion for creating great games. The Blizzard CEO has been quoted saying he wanted to take the fun out of developing games, and it shows. Bioware was EAed, which can suck the life out of anybody.
Just a theory...but maybe that is because several innovative Blizzard devs left Blizzard to form their own company.
I wonder what that company they formed was called...
Also..."Bioware" is now a general brand that EA has applied to at least eight different studios. One of which used to make social games.
I agree. And this is why Blizzard and Bioware no longer make great games.
For millions that are still enjoying Blizzard and Bioware games would disagree with you. No wonder the whole topic turned to garbage after this one post and other people's own interpretation of it.
Decline happens slowly. WoW is losing subs. D3 and SC2 sold less than their predecessors. ME3 certainly had more complaints than ME2 (I'm not sure about how sales evolved in the first few months of ME3, as the first month is usually dominated by pre-orders and such). DA2 sales sank quickly after word got around. SWTOR couldn't maintain its subs because of its problems and is going F2P.
So there's definitely cause for saying things aren't as good for these companies as they used to be.
I have been reading this for some years now and yet the sales are in millions for both companies. All it takes is a one game to change everything so even though in your opinion these companies are on decline i believe it will take many many years for these companies to completely lose it . However chances are that this will never happen.
By the way D3 has broken all old records for sales for any Blizzard title.
This was posted on Reddit as a quote from an ArenaNet employee who posted it on a fan site last night.
Thought it was fairly touching.
"I'm going to try to get some sleep, because I'm exhausted, and tomorrow is going to be a very long day. There is such a range of emotion I'm experiencing right now, but mostly I just want to say that I hope you guys love it. Love it forever, or love it and then move on to something else, but just love it, and know that three hundred of us melted down our hearts to give it to you. It's all yours soon."
I've had the impression during the long wait for GW2 from watching the manifesto trailer and reading various interviews that they are, indeed passionate about the game and have really poured themselves into making a great game that they, and lots of other players will enjoy playing.
I was just saying to my son last night that the developers must be feeling such a mixture of emotions now that release is in sight; exhaustion, relief, anticipation, and anxiety spring to mind.
Thanks for posting the quote, Mithrandolir, and perhaps all the cynics could think back to a project they've been involved in (even if it's way back in school) and their hopes and fears as it nears completion. And most people's projects are nowhere near as publicly visible as this one.
Comments
So, it is absolutely true that passion alone won't make a great game.
Remember Warhammer Online? Remember Paul Barnett? He was very passionate.
Now that was his job... but also when you heard the interviews of Mark Jacobs or the other devs speaking of the game .. it was clear Mythic really was passionate about their product.
But to see this kind of developer message and think it is "marketing" of all things? Wow. The game headstart is in less than 12 hours, what marketing is that exactly? isn't it a taaaad late???
Just sayin'
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
You would both be naive to think that the developers behind blizzard and bioware don't live and breathe their passion without pause, I don't even want to think about what sort of resume you need to pull a gig at blizzard.
Call those big companies sterile if you want - but the individuals behind those games are almost always passionate, you don't get that far into the industry without having a certain fire.
As far as passion is concerned. Ragnar is also extremely passionate about TSW but sadly passion alone doesn't make a great game.
You are very right, but myself and certainly others have been severely dissapointed with their latest offerings.
Dragon Age 1 and 2 were non-purchases for me, and ME3 was mostly amazing but the ending was just SO poor it really dragged the whole game into the mud for me.
SWTOR was a let down...
Diable 3 and WoW: MoP are pretty much the first two Blizzard games I haven't bought and will not buy.
They've changed, I've changed maybe?
There was a time I'd buy anything from Blizzard / Bioware site unseen.
I think we can all agree that the people at the top have to be passionate, as most/probably all of the worker bees actually making the game are passionate about what they do.
And I think we can all agree that passion isn't everything - people can be extremely passionate about terrible ideas too lol
But I think we can ALSO agree that there is NO reason to piss in someone's Cheerios when they are excited/happy/passionate about something and express that feeling in a positive way.
Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I forgot to put the IMHO in there. Bioware's last few games have sucked, IMHO. And Blizzard no longer has the creativity it once had, IMHO. And IMHO it is because they no longer have any passion for creating great games. The Blizzard CEO has been quoted saying he wanted to take the fun out of developing games, and it shows. Bioware was EAed, which can suck the life out of anybody.
DA1 was actually quite good, though I wasn't a fan of the aggro mechanics. DA2 was crap. ME3 had some great stuff, but also had some really bad elements like the ending and the fact most of the side quests were boring and lame as heck. I don't know, ME1 did a good job of making the galaxy seem large even if planet roving was very annoying. ME2 and ME3 didn't do that, disappointingly. I'd say ME2 and ME3 were good games, but it does seem like the general quality of Bioware's games have gone downhill.
Blizzard too, of course.
It's not all that surprising though. Both are dominated by companies that have decided to try to monetize their games as much as possible. And such monetization schemes affect game design. It can be as simple as a major character turned into day one DLC or splitting one game into three full-priced boxes to something like an RMAH where drop rates, item states, and so forth are adjusted to maximize the ongoing profit margin rather than to maximize fun. And frankly, it hurts both companies in the long run.
And this is definitely a big problem with a number of big companies and some indie devs.
Decline happens slowly. WoW is losing subs. D3 and SC2 sold less than their predecessors. ME3 certainly had more complaints than ME2 (I'm not sure about how sales evolved in the first few months of ME3, as the first month is usually dominated by pre-orders and such). DA2 sales sank quickly after word got around. SWTOR couldn't maintain its subs because of its problems and is going F2P.
So there's definitely cause for saying things aren't as good for these companies as they used to be.
Anyone who says SWTOR is 100% Corperate greed and not a bunch of hard working and passionate folks have never met a game dev before and really should look into it. I have had a cynical view in the past and screamed from the roof tops about this but you know what changed? I went to PAX East two years in a row and had actual conversations with devs.
I've chatted with developers on games on both sides of the fence both that have done good, and those who have done bad and you know whats the same? They are all have that radiance about them, but just being passionate doesn't mean you are going to suceed.
I say we all root for those guys busting their balls to make the games we play and give them the benefit of the doubt that they truly work hard to make something they love, it doesn't mean you need to like the results but at least don't deprive them of that.
Best post of the thread.
Just a theory...but maybe that is because several innovative Blizzard devs left Blizzard to form their own company.
I wonder what that company they formed was called...
Also..."Bioware" is now a general brand that EA has applied to at least eight different studios. One of which used to make social games.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I have been reading this for some years now and yet the sales are in millions for both companies. All it takes is a one game to change everything so even though in your opinion these companies are on decline i believe it will take many many years for these companies to completely lose it . However chances are that this will never happen.
By the way D3 has broken all old records for sales for any Blizzard title.
I've had the impression during the long wait for GW2 from watching the manifesto trailer and reading various interviews that they are, indeed passionate about the game and have really poured themselves into making a great game that they, and lots of other players will enjoy playing.
I was just saying to my son last night that the developers must be feeling such a mixture of emotions now that release is in sight; exhaustion, relief, anticipation, and anxiety spring to mind.
Thanks for posting the quote, Mithrandolir, and perhaps all the cynics could think back to a project they've been involved in (even if it's way back in school) and their hopes and fears as it nears completion. And most people's projects are nowhere near as publicly visible as this one.
Spread a little kindness ♥
A tear came to my eye...
No seriously, I hope the game succeeds but this is already showing its far far the messiah MMO we all been waiting for.
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