Appoligies then, as I must have misread your post.
I guess we'll only know for sure what is being released in November near the time. However these changes are where the Smuggler correspondant is focused, nothing else, not even a mention of anything else. Plus we've known for some time that something would be happening in November, not just a short period before the in-concept post. So logically work could be well underway.
Originally posted by grapevine Appoligies then, as I must have misread your post. I guess we'll only know for sure what is being released in November near the time. However these changes are what the Smuggler correspondant is focused, nothing else, not even a mention of anything else. Plus we've known for some time that something would be happening in November, not just a short period before the in-concept post. So logically work could be well underway, or not.
The problem in this case is this:
SOE has been hemming and hawing on the Smuggler issue since DAY ONE. They still are...
The smuggler in Star Wars is not the sum total of drugs and guns. That is the description of a drug kingpin, NOT a Smuggler. They missed the point of it.
They did NOT miss the point...with Bounty Hunters. Bounty Hunters have BOUNTIES. This is what they DO, and constitutes Bounty Hunter CONTENT.
We have the guns! What we need....is the GAME PLAY!
When developers talk content they are talking about items and caves. What they fail to realize is that what a profession or class DOES is a content MULTIPLIER.
If the Smuggler has available to him the means to actually SMUGGLE, now you have a game! And everything else in the SWG universe as far as content is concerned...is magnified by the game play found within the profession.
The concept is simple, but they have traditionally refused to believe it! They have never clearly defined - what makes Star Wars...GREAT. That's the problem. They have the unlimited resources of Lucas to draw upon, which is misdirecting them to marketing of the last 3 movies....instead of making a stand-alone product that addresses the NEEDS of the STAR WARS FANS. This is the main potential playerbase for SWG, and they have ignored that huge following since beta.
YES! It IS about role playing!
People that play this game, whether they will admit it or not, are seeking what it means to live in the Star Wars Universe. Not to just have avatar there on a constant search for content, but to BE Han Solo. To BE Boba Fett. To experience that.
By ignoring this fact, they alienate the Star Wars fans.
This has always been the primary issue with SWG. By their actions, they are failing to produce a consistently large playerbase, by anybody's standards.
I said it in beta a hundred times. I tried to get it across to them as a correspondent. When that failed, I tried to bring it public. It seems that....only now are they starting to finally get the idea that STAR WARSY means GAME PLAY, not another light saber, E11 carbine, Mandalorean Armor Set, Jet Pack, or Rancor. It's in the PROFESSION, right here in front of the player, not in the cave out on Endor somewhere.
By addressing the game play, they are addressing the needs of the Star Wars fan base. I believe that they can screw it up for another year, and still if they finally get around to realizing that content is found int he professions themselves, they will finally get that playerbase they have been sorely missing all along.
Right now, I believe they are on the right path. SOE in the past, though, has deviated from that path way too often. So, I maintain that...it remains to be seen.
Still, I'm anxious. IF they put smuggling missions in the game and DO IT RIGHT, I will surely come back. If they never do, I never will. I suspect there are hundreds of thousands out there of this opinion, and are waiting to see what SOE will do next.
...not just with Smuggler, but with every profession.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I'm glad they are planning on removing spice crafting from the profession, as like you say smugglers aren't drug barons.
Personally I feel it just being spices isn't enough. For me the rewards for the missions should be spices, slicing components (removing them from BH mission drops), or some illegal resources (which they could tie into some new schematics for crafters).
Also its a shame they backtracked on the idea of BH missions being able to target smugglers. It would have added a lot for smugglers to get visibility for slicing, trading fraction or trading illegal items in public.
When I was correspondent for Bounty Hunter, my first duty was to report all the bugs. I made a single thread dedicated to that alone, but any bugs that went in there were confirmed by myself and/or the people I had working closely with me.
Aside from that, I took to speaking on content, and what it means to be Boba Fett.
One now infamous post in there was how I described the issue and used the Smuggler as the single greatest oversight of the team.
I commented that by applying Bounty Hunter content to the Smuggler, that THIS is where Star Wars could be found. Apply the Bounty Hunter missions system to the Smugglers, and now you are onto something.
The Smuggler Correspondent, though, was not...all that bright.
Instead of supporting the ideas, essentially - that Smuggler should have their own missions, he jumped in the thread all angry, and reported that I was "just trying to get bounties put on Smugglers for the sake of Bounty Hunters."
That turned the thread into a flame war, and SOE ignored it. TH even got involved, as usual not seeing anything Star Warsy there, and discrediting the whole idea.
Yes, this was your Smuggler Correspondents for some time. They just weren't there to impart to the developers how to bring the proper gameplay that would attract the Star Wars fans. They were ONLY there to defend what they already had, which in my opinion is minimal content if you can even call it that.
So my efforts were sabotaged by the Smuggler Correspondents themselves. The obvious result of this is what you can plainly see...there is no content in the Smuggler profession, assuming that SOE would have listened anyway, and this is something that I didn't see either.
It wasn't just them. I tried like the devil to come up with innovative and doable ideas for every profession there. If the correspondents were there for anything other than their own egos, I didn't see it.
The correspondent system in my opinion is nothing more than a glory-ride for most of them. Those that truly cared about this game and wanted to see it grow into something great were silenced, flamed, or otherwise ignored as being...alarmists?
It's been a long time, and perhaps they are finally getting the idea. It remains to be seen.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I'm glad they are planning on removing spice crafting from the profession, as like you say smugglers aren't drug barons.
An idea that goes all the way back to some of the original posts that I was involved in in beta.
Personally I feel it just being spices isn't enough. For me the rewards for the missions should be spices, slicing components (removing them from BH mission drops), or some illegal resources (which they could tie into some new schematics for crafters).
See above. In the correspondent forum, one of my posts addressed this specifically. Remove spice crafting, replace it with smuggling, which should truly be in Underworld. Give spices to a chemist, or Bio Engineer maybe.
Also its a shame they backtracked on the idea of BH missions being able to target smugglers. It would have added a lot for smugglers to get visibility for slicing, trading fraction or trading illegal items in public.
A good idea lost, but I never pushed for Bounty Missions against Smugglers.
If you were going to do it right, Smuggler visibility in this respect should only occur if they either:
1 - fail the mission with Jabba (as one example) and Jabba slaps a bounty on them...
2 - If they are too successful and the opposing faction, in this case Valerian, slaps a bounty on them...
Expanding on this...
3 - Smugglers are neutral. Bounty Hunters are neutral as well. Factional equipment should become limited if they join one side or the other in the GCW.
However, Smugglers would always gain the greater share of reward by smuggling for the Alliance. This is a given. It doesn't mean they would have to be factionally aligned with the Rebels though.
Han Solo joins the Rebellion. He isn't smuggling anymore. That's how the story goes, the Alliance frowned on it. The Empire actively tried to halt the activity. Either way, Smugglers didn't make out on that deal.
Expand on this again.
Kuat Drive Yards - yes, producing bichin vessels for the Empire, but is only really concerned with whether or not a faction has the money to buy the equipment. They are not concerned with what side of the GCW is purchasing it, as long as they turn their nice profit.
On the other hand, that doesn't limit a crafter to...not selling ships to the Rebellion.
However, it DOES limit their ability - to DELIVER those ships. The Empire is watching.
What to do?
Hire a Smuggler. Take that vessel (or other crafted item) through to the Rebellion...via the Underworld. It's the logical choice to make.
HERE is where we find potential PLAYER smuggling.
So, like with the new smuggler content you cannot sell your goods on the market you have to do it directly to the players buying them, and this is a good idea, we can take that already existing concept and expand to all crafters.
The Empire will put your hotdog in a bun and chow down if they find out you are selling weapons to Rebels. It only makes sense, and HERE is Star Wars presented to you! Sure it makes things a little more difficult, but it allows for Smuggling missions to be generated by players, and now we are starting to conceive of an actual GAME.
If you are a Master Starship Designer, and you have a place of business (which I will discuss shortly), you are factionally aligned with the Empire, part of a PA and in their city. You COULD be recipient of a Rebel Commando Raid on your place of business. This can be countered with purchase of security for your facility, it could be also be countered by player interactions directly, rallying the guild to your defense and this would mean your information sources informed you of the impending action in enough time to take measures.
NOW YOU HAVE A GAME. The crafters aren't just grinding anymore and slapping up Vendors, they are actively taking part in the GCW! Sure, in their own small fashion, but they ARE affected by it, and must respond!
Touching on the facility I speak of, a player's home...is no place to be an Auto Dealership. A player should actually have a facility designed for this purpose! Purchase the Showroom! And it should be obvious by looking at it which faction that player is concentrating on...
For example, you have a rather large, perhaps larger than a guild hall, facility designed to be a showroom. If it has TIE interceptors and bombers in it, you are obviously Imperial aligned. Same goes for Rebel. Those NOT aligned are free to sell to anybody any ship they create, but any alignment can build Neutral vessels.
Not only do you have a showroom, but perhaps you have an INSTANCED shipyard in space. HERE is where you would actually craft your designs, and the facility itself should be a gigantic Manufacturing Unit.
If you are actively constructing ships, you should see the welders doing their thing out in the docks.
This is how to make it star warsy.
So, the Shipwright has a couple facilities specifically designed for THEM, that address the needs of the Star Wars fan. Further, their game play improves, and they can actually be involved in the GCW in their own way, without having to face impossible combat odds.
Just some thoughts on the direction that SWG COULD go if they were willing to expend the resources to do it. But I honestly think THIS kind of game play is what the vast majority of potential players are seeking....if it is done right.
Anyway just some thoughts....
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Wepps The Smuggler Correspondent, though, was not...all that bright. Instead of supporting the ideas, essentially - that Smuggler should have their own missions, he jumped in the thread all angry, and reported that I was "just trying to get bounties put on Smugglers for the sake of Bounty Hunters."
At that time the smuggler correspondent asked the smugglers wether they would want bounties on their heads for botched smuggler missions. The vote on the forum was about 2:1 against. So he corresponded what the smugglers told him. Maybe he was not as dumb as you paint him.
That it escalated into a flame war ... well, there is that saying that you need two to quarrel ...
At that time the smuggler correspondent asked the smugglers wether they would want bounties on their heads for botched smuggler missions. The vote on the forum was about 2:1 against. So he corresponded what the smugglers told him. Maybe he was not as dumb as you paint him.
If you read what I wrote, you'd know I wasn't promoting Smuggler Bounties. Now I know two people dumber than I expected.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
No really, Erillion, nobody is listening anymore. They don't absorb, they don't pay attention. They just talk nonsense and throw flames.
Where is the thinking?
This was Thunderheart for you. He'd read the first few words of a post then respond with something entirely different than the spirit of it.
Your Smuggler correspondents, like you, would read a post that was trying to promote Smuggler game play, not Bounty Hunter, and would get the same impression as you because they didn't LISTEN.
So look, if you have nothing to say useful as usual, just shut the pie hole already. I for one am tired of listening to non-constructive posting of the illiterate fanbois.
And yes, you are illiterate if you can't read what's being said. So talk all you like, it all comes down to the fact that you are part of the problem, and you just proved it. NOBODY IS LISTENING.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
My my ... are we getting upset ? Or just running out of arguments ?
Maybe its another reason : NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPINION AS YOU. People do listen, people do read. And they form opinions. Which are not necessarily the same as yours. Thats why they also dont HAVE to agree with you. And you seem to have a problem with that. Also you seem to have a problem with people that think your point of view is NOT the best that happened to this world since sliced bread.
Originally posted by Erillion My my ... are we getting upset ? Or just running out of arguments ? Maybe its another reason : NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPINION AS YOU. People do listen, people do read. And they form opinions. Which are not necessarily the same as yours. Thats why they also dont HAVE to agree with you. And you seem to have a problem with that. Also you seem to have a problem with people that think your point of view is NOT the best that happened to this world since sliced bread. If you are tired, go to bed.
Have fun Erillion
Nope, sorry, you just didn't listen. You made up some random BS, and tried to tell everyone here that this is what was being said.
But I'm not changing the post it's there for everyone to read. As usual, you weren't reading what people were saying. You were just making stuff up again.
All I ever see from you is the regurgitation of copy-and-pastes of what others have said. You don't think, you just copy-and-paste.
This is not the mark of intelligence or literacy, sorry.
You will remain part of the problem. You just don't know any better.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
A good idea lost, but I never pushed for Bounty Missions against Smugglers.
You said that...
Originally posted by Erillion
At that time the smuggler correspondent asked the smugglers wether they would want bounties on their heads for botched smuggler missions. The vote on the forum was about 2:1 against. So he corresponded what the smugglers told him. Maybe he was not as dumb as you paint him.
Have fun Erillion
I don't see where there's an argument. As usual, you just weren't paying attention.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Wepps don't see where there's an argument. As usual, you just weren't paying attention.
Prone to comparing apples and oranges ?
My post was in response to your slandering of other correspondents ("The Smuggler Correspondent, though, was not...all that bright."). Maybe he is brighter than YOU believe. By doing his job and bringing the opinion and ideas of the COMMUNITY to the attention of the devs. Clearly he was not suffering from an overinflated ego and the need to push his own personal ideas (or at least what someone believes are HIS ideas) into the face of the devs instead of the community Top 5 list and community-effort vision documents.
Your perception of what a correspondent's job is - is all wrong.
Providing a list of what the community wants, the top-5s, those were all givens.
I went beyond that though - I offered more in the form of creative ideas. I didn't care whether they implemented them, all I cared about was that some developers somewhere might read them, and have their creativity re-ignited.
One of the problems with creativity is that it disappears without a conscious effort in the face of too many details being rushed at you. I was aware of this fact, as it had happened in every MMO before and since. At release, the developers toss it out the door in favor of quick fixes.
I had hoped that some of it would sink-in.
But alas, when nobody is listening, what you have today is what you get.
Thank you for proving my point Erillion.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I believe it's your preception that is wrong Wepps. The position of the correspondent is to act as a liason between the community and the development team. I believe Tanks understood this.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I like those new things they are going to bring to the game and to me it really does seem like they are listening to the community, and actively pushing to bring their vision into reality.
In some cases, in fact many, the fans in a game like this (franchise based on a movie) are just always going to know more about the world as it should be than the developers. Is that the developers fault? The arguement can be made for both sides.
For one, the dev's should be doing their homework, after all they are getting paid to be the best they can be. On the other hand, fans are sometimes, not always, younger with less responsiblities and have nothing better to do than soak up lore, facts, and details about the universe of Star Wars. Just look at Kai: he knows more than any human besides George Lucas probably should. He would make a great developer for the game, but for whatever reason, he isn't.
Some MIT educated programmer was living in the right area and applying for the right job to be paid by SOE or LucasArts to go in and make the world where someone like Kai will call his virtual home. Therefore it behooves us as players of the game to be active in the community and do what little or large that we can to effect positive change in a game of this scope and ambition.
You might think WoW is a better game, but you surely must admit that it is far too simple and MUST admit that is is much simpler than Star Wars Galaxies. If you don't then you just haven't tried both.
This fact alone is what keeps me away from the one and sticking to the other. Thank you and goodnight!
Originally posted by IcoGames I believe it's your preception that is wrong Wepps. The position of the correspondent is to act as a liason between the community and the development team. I believe Tanks understood this.
I would remind you that it was the majority of the community that demanded Jedi, and then demanded the Holocrons, then demanded that it be made easier to achieve.
Now that all these things have been implemented, people hated the game and quit citing too many Jedi
To that end, I understand the frustration of the development team, but they are greatly responsible too for listening to the WRONG PEOPLE, and for the WRONG REASONS.
The community itself is also greatly RESPONSIBLE for crying about it in the first place. This is why I believe it was my greater responsibility...to have an opinion on all those issues, even if they went against the community I was representing.
This is common philosophy that goes back to the early days of British Parliament, and American Congress. Edmund Burke of well-known British renown, and one of the founders of the principles of Liberty, stated that, "A Representative owes the people not only his industry, but his judgment."
Simply regurgitating to the developers the demands of the community was not enough in my opinion, and those who held themselves in check limiting themselves to this shortsighted ideal were part of the problem that has resulted in the product you see today.
Like I stated before, my only hope was that the developers would recognize the real problem, that the game was not nearly finished, and they had thrown their creativity out the window just to get the coding done. THIS problem I will maintain is a problem with EVERY MMO in existence today. Again, creativity falls apart when you are overwhelmed with the massive problematic details of release. This holds for any situation where creativity IS REQUIRED. SWG falling short on game play, GAME PLAY had to be addressed, and this constitutes the ART OF GAME DESIGN, not as much the Science of it.
Because I refused to kiss the ring fingers of the creators and reduce myself to being the spokesman of SOE to the Bounty Hunter community, I was silenced.
You know what's funny? The post that caused my banning from the main forums. When they announced that all players could have Mandalorean Armor, I returned that given this design philosophy, all players should have Light Sabers lol. They were not amused.
So, really, who are the real problems here? Those that continue to think this could and SHOULD be a much better game? Or those that silence the people who think so?
/shrug you be the judge
As it stands, I feel they are continuing to move in the right direction, a direction they should have taken in beta...according to what statements they commonly made then concerning the game play they sought to provide. I continually remind them of what they were looking for, and maybe...just MAYBE somebody heard. Somebody LISTENED.
The credit goes to them for having the will AND the skill to improve this game, and realize that up until now, it hasn't really been a game.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Let me give a clear example why I feel this way today and not in the past:
Single out the Squad Leader changes in the works. Look at them carefully...
These are NOT fixes to broken skills, the science of game design.
These are complete changes involving purpose and game play.
The Ranger is an even greater example of this. Not so much about foraging, as being part of the GCW. A change in purpose, and game play.
The proposed Smuggler changes involve many specific issues that go all the way back to beta, where many of us were pointing out the fact that a Smuggler is not a Drug Dealer in the Star Wars universe, and this is where there was a flaw...in the game play. The changes coming address again...the purpose, and the game play.
Many new changes coming have not so much to do with coding, as the ART of game design. Providing a purpose to Rangers and Squad Leaders that directly address the centerpiece of Star Wars, the Galactic Civil War, suggests to me that SOE has finally come around and recognizes the errors they have been compounding since late beta. Their creativity has been sparked, and they are implementing these new ideas based upon improved game play rather than simple quick fixes to appease the masses.
It's going in the right direction. Whether or not they ever arrive at the destination is another matter.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Comments
Appoligies then, as I must have misread your post.
I guess we'll only know for sure what is being released in November near the time. However these changes are where the Smuggler correspondant is focused, nothing else, not even a mention of anything else. Plus we've known for some time that something would be happening in November, not just a short period before the in-concept post. So logically work could be well underway.
Missions are content, so even there it ties in.
The problem in this case is this:
SOE has been hemming and hawing on the Smuggler issue since DAY ONE. They still are...
The smuggler in Star Wars is not the sum total of drugs and guns. That is the description of a drug kingpin, NOT a Smuggler. They missed the point of it.
They did NOT miss the point...with Bounty Hunters. Bounty Hunters have BOUNTIES. This is what they DO, and constitutes Bounty Hunter CONTENT.
We have the guns! What we need....is the GAME PLAY!
When developers talk content they are talking about items and caves. What they fail to realize is that what a profession or class DOES is a content MULTIPLIER.
If the Smuggler has available to him the means to actually SMUGGLE, now you have a game! And everything else in the SWG universe as far as content is concerned...is magnified by the game play found within the profession.
The concept is simple, but they have traditionally refused to believe it! They have never clearly defined - what makes Star Wars...GREAT. That's the problem. They have the unlimited resources of Lucas to draw upon, which is misdirecting them to marketing of the last 3 movies....instead of making a stand-alone product that addresses the NEEDS of the STAR WARS FANS. This is the main potential playerbase for SWG, and they have ignored that huge following since beta.
YES! It IS about role playing!
People that play this game, whether they will admit it or not, are seeking what it means to live in the Star Wars Universe. Not to just have avatar there on a constant search for content, but to BE Han Solo. To BE Boba Fett. To experience that.
By ignoring this fact, they alienate the Star Wars fans.
This has always been the primary issue with SWG. By their actions, they are failing to produce a consistently large playerbase, by anybody's standards.
I said it in beta a hundred times. I tried to get it across to them as a correspondent. When that failed, I tried to bring it public. It seems that....only now are they starting to finally get the idea that STAR WARSY means GAME PLAY, not another light saber, E11 carbine, Mandalorean Armor Set, Jet Pack, or Rancor. It's in the PROFESSION, right here in front of the player, not in the cave out on Endor somewhere.
By addressing the game play, they are addressing the needs of the Star Wars fan base. I believe that they can screw it up for another year, and still if they finally get around to realizing that content is found int he professions themselves, they will finally get that playerbase they have been sorely missing all along.
Right now, I believe they are on the right path. SOE in the past, though, has deviated from that path way too often. So, I maintain that...it remains to be seen.
Still, I'm anxious. IF they put smuggling missions in the game and DO IT RIGHT, I will surely come back. If they never do, I never will. I suspect there are hundreds of thousands out there of this opinion, and are waiting to see what SOE will do next.
...not just with Smuggler, but with every profession.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I'm glad they are planning on removing spice crafting from the profession, as like you say smugglers aren't drug barons.
Personally I feel it just being spices isn't enough. For me the rewards for the missions should be spices, slicing components (removing them from BH mission drops), or some illegal resources (which they could tie into some new schematics for crafters).
Also its a shame they backtracked on the idea of BH missions being able to target smugglers. It would have added a lot for smugglers to get visibility for slicing, trading fraction or trading illegal items in public.
For example:
When I was correspondent for Bounty Hunter, my first duty was to report all the bugs. I made a single thread dedicated to that alone, but any bugs that went in there were confirmed by myself and/or the people I had working closely with me.
Aside from that, I took to speaking on content, and what it means to be Boba Fett.
One now infamous post in there was how I described the issue and used the Smuggler as the single greatest oversight of the team.
I commented that by applying Bounty Hunter content to the Smuggler, that THIS is where Star Wars could be found. Apply the Bounty Hunter missions system to the Smugglers, and now you are onto something.
The Smuggler Correspondent, though, was not...all that bright.
Instead of supporting the ideas, essentially - that Smuggler should have their own missions, he jumped in the thread all angry, and reported that I was "just trying to get bounties put on Smugglers for the sake of Bounty Hunters."
That turned the thread into a flame war, and SOE ignored it. TH even got involved, as usual not seeing anything Star Warsy there, and discrediting the whole idea.
Yes, this was your Smuggler Correspondents for some time. They just weren't there to impart to the developers how to bring the proper gameplay that would attract the Star Wars fans. They were ONLY there to defend what they already had, which in my opinion is minimal content if you can even call it that.
So my efforts were sabotaged by the Smuggler Correspondents themselves. The obvious result of this is what you can plainly see...there is no content in the Smuggler profession, assuming that SOE would have listened anyway, and this is something that I didn't see either.
It wasn't just them. I tried like the devil to come up with innovative and doable ideas for every profession there. If the correspondents were there for anything other than their own egos, I didn't see it.
The correspondent system in my opinion is nothing more than a glory-ride for most of them. Those that truly cared about this game and wanted to see it grow into something great were silenced, flamed, or otherwise ignored as being...alarmists?
It's been a long time, and perhaps they are finally getting the idea. It remains to be seen.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
An idea that goes all the way back to some of the original posts that I was involved in in beta.
See above. In the correspondent forum, one of my posts addressed this specifically. Remove spice crafting, replace it with smuggling, which should truly be in Underworld. Give spices to a chemist, or Bio Engineer maybe.
A good idea lost, but I never pushed for Bounty Missions against Smugglers.
If you were going to do it right, Smuggler visibility in this respect should only occur if they either:
1 - fail the mission with Jabba (as one example) and Jabba slaps a bounty on them...
2 - If they are too successful and the opposing faction, in this case Valerian, slaps a bounty on them...
Expanding on this...
3 - Smugglers are neutral. Bounty Hunters are neutral as well. Factional equipment should become limited if they join one side or the other in the GCW.
However, Smugglers would always gain the greater share of reward by smuggling for the Alliance. This is a given. It doesn't mean they would have to be factionally aligned with the Rebels though.
Han Solo joins the Rebellion. He isn't smuggling anymore. That's how the story goes, the Alliance frowned on it. The Empire actively tried to halt the activity. Either way, Smugglers didn't make out on that deal.
Expand on this again.
Kuat Drive Yards - yes, producing bichin vessels for the Empire, but is only really concerned with whether or not a faction has the money to buy the equipment. They are not concerned with what side of the GCW is purchasing it, as long as they turn their nice profit.
On the other hand, that doesn't limit a crafter to...not selling ships to the Rebellion.
However, it DOES limit their ability - to DELIVER those ships. The Empire is watching.
What to do?
Hire a Smuggler. Take that vessel (or other crafted item) through to the Rebellion...via the Underworld. It's the logical choice to make.
HERE is where we find potential PLAYER smuggling.
So, like with the new smuggler content you cannot sell your goods on the market you have to do it directly to the players buying them, and this is a good idea, we can take that already existing concept and expand to all crafters.
The Empire will put your hotdog in a bun and chow down if they find out you are selling weapons to Rebels. It only makes sense, and HERE is Star Wars presented to you! Sure it makes things a little more difficult, but it allows for Smuggling missions to be generated by players, and now we are starting to conceive of an actual GAME.
If you are a Master Starship Designer, and you have a place of business (which I will discuss shortly), you are factionally aligned with the Empire, part of a PA and in their city. You COULD be recipient of a Rebel Commando Raid on your place of business. This can be countered with purchase of security for your facility, it could be also be countered by player interactions directly, rallying the guild to your defense and this would mean your information sources informed you of the impending action in enough time to take measures.
NOW YOU HAVE A GAME. The crafters aren't just grinding anymore and slapping up Vendors, they are actively taking part in the GCW! Sure, in their own small fashion, but they ARE affected by it, and must respond!
Touching on the facility I speak of, a player's home...is no place to be an Auto Dealership. A player should actually have a facility designed for this purpose! Purchase the Showroom! And it should be obvious by looking at it which faction that player is concentrating on...
For example, you have a rather large, perhaps larger than a guild hall, facility designed to be a showroom. If it has TIE interceptors and bombers in it, you are obviously Imperial aligned. Same goes for Rebel. Those NOT aligned are free to sell to anybody any ship they create, but any alignment can build Neutral vessels.
Not only do you have a showroom, but perhaps you have an INSTANCED shipyard in space. HERE is where you would actually craft your designs, and the facility itself should be a gigantic Manufacturing Unit.
If you are actively constructing ships, you should see the welders doing their thing out in the docks.
This is how to make it star warsy.
So, the Shipwright has a couple facilities specifically designed for THEM, that address the needs of the Star Wars fan. Further, their game play improves, and they can actually be involved in the GCW in their own way, without having to face impossible combat odds.
Just some thoughts on the direction that SWG COULD go if they were willing to expend the resources to do it. But I honestly think THIS kind of game play is what the vast majority of potential players are seeking....if it is done right.
Anyway just some thoughts....
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
LOL! IcoGames FTW!!!!!
At that time the smuggler correspondent asked the smugglers wether they would want bounties on their heads for botched smuggler missions. The vote on the forum was about 2:1 against. So he corresponded what the smugglers told him. Maybe he was not as dumb as you paint him.
That it escalated into a flame war ... well, there is that saying that you need two to quarrel ...
Have fun
Erillion
If you read what I wrote, you'd know I wasn't promoting Smuggler Bounties. Now I know two people dumber than I expected.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
You do ? Then its time to step out of the mirror cabinet.
Have fun
Erillion
No really, Erillion, nobody is listening anymore. They don't absorb, they don't pay attention. They just talk nonsense and throw flames.
Where is the thinking?
This was Thunderheart for you. He'd read the first few words of a post then respond with something entirely different than the spirit of it.
Your Smuggler correspondents, like you, would read a post that was trying to promote Smuggler game play, not Bounty Hunter, and would get the same impression as you because they didn't LISTEN.
So look, if you have nothing to say useful as usual, just shut the pie hole already. I for one am tired of listening to non-constructive posting of the illiterate fanbois.
And yes, you are illiterate if you can't read what's being said. So talk all you like, it all comes down to the fact that you are part of the problem, and you just proved it. NOBODY IS LISTENING.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
My my ... are we getting upset ? Or just running out of arguments ?
Maybe its another reason : NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPINION AS YOU. People do listen, people do read. And they form opinions. Which are not necessarily the same as yours. Thats why they also dont HAVE to agree with you. And you seem to have a problem with that. Also you seem to have a problem with people that think your point of view is NOT the best that happened to this world since sliced bread.
If you are tired, go to bed.
Have fun
Erillion
Nope, sorry, you just didn't listen. You made up some random BS, and tried to tell everyone here that this is what was being said.
But I'm not changing the post it's there for everyone to read. As usual, you weren't reading what people were saying. You were just making stuff up again.
All I ever see from you is the regurgitation of copy-and-pastes of what others have said. You don't think, you just copy-and-paste.
This is not the mark of intelligence or literacy, sorry.
You will remain part of the problem. You just don't know any better.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Yup, definitely running out of arguments.
Have fun
Erillion
I said this....
You said that...
I don't see where there's an argument. As usual, you just weren't paying attention.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Prone to comparing apples and oranges ?
My post was in response to your slandering of other correspondents ("The Smuggler Correspondent, though, was not...all that bright."). Maybe he is brighter than YOU believe. By doing his job and bringing the opinion and ideas of the COMMUNITY to the attention of the devs. Clearly he was not suffering from an overinflated ego and the need to push his own personal ideas (or at least what someone believes are HIS ideas) into the face of the devs instead of the community Top 5 list and community-effort vision documents.
Have fun
Erillion
Your perception of what a correspondent's job is - is all wrong.
Providing a list of what the community wants, the top-5s, those were all givens.
I went beyond that though - I offered more in the form of creative ideas. I didn't care whether they implemented them, all I cared about was that some developers somewhere might read them, and have their creativity re-ignited.
One of the problems with creativity is that it disappears without a conscious effort in the face of too many details being rushed at you. I was aware of this fact, as it had happened in every MMO before and since. At release, the developers toss it out the door in favor of quick fixes.
I had hoped that some of it would sink-in.
But alas, when nobody is listening, what you have today is what you get.
Thank you for proving my point Erillion.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I believe it's your preception that is wrong Wepps. The position of the correspondent is to act as a liason between the community and the development team. I believe Tanks understood this.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I like those new things they are going to bring to the game and to me it really does seem like they are listening to the community, and actively pushing to bring their vision into reality.
In some cases, in fact many, the fans in a game like this (franchise based on a movie) are just always going to know more about the world as it should be than the developers. Is that the developers fault? The arguement can be made for both sides.
For one, the dev's should be doing their homework, after all they are getting paid to be the best they can be. On the other hand, fans are sometimes, not always, younger with less responsiblities and have nothing better to do than soak up lore, facts, and details about the universe of Star Wars. Just look at Kai: he knows more than any human besides George Lucas probably should. He would make a great developer for the game, but for whatever reason, he isn't.
Some MIT educated programmer was living in the right area and applying for the right job to be paid by SOE or LucasArts to go in and make the world where someone like Kai will call his virtual home. Therefore it behooves us as players of the game to be active in the community and do what little or large that we can to effect positive change in a game of this scope and ambition.
You might think WoW is a better game, but you surely must admit that it is far too simple and MUST admit that is is much simpler than Star Wars Galaxies. If you don't then you just haven't tried both.
This fact alone is what keeps me away from the one and sticking to the other. Thank you and goodnight!
What do you mean by simple AA? Besides, there's something to be said about a simple system, less to break lol.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I would remind you that it was the majority of the community that demanded Jedi, and then demanded the Holocrons, then demanded that it be made easier to achieve.
Now that all these things have been implemented, people hated the game and quit citing too many Jedi
To that end, I understand the frustration of the development team, but they are greatly responsible too for listening to the WRONG PEOPLE, and for the WRONG REASONS.
The community itself is also greatly RESPONSIBLE for crying about it in the first place. This is why I believe it was my greater responsibility...to have an opinion on all those issues, even if they went against the community I was representing.
This is common philosophy that goes back to the early days of British Parliament, and American Congress. Edmund Burke of well-known British renown, and one of the founders of the principles of Liberty, stated that, "A Representative owes the people not only his industry, but his judgment."
Simply regurgitating to the developers the demands of the community was not enough in my opinion, and those who held themselves in check limiting themselves to this shortsighted ideal were part of the problem that has resulted in the product you see today.
Like I stated before, my only hope was that the developers would recognize the real problem, that the game was not nearly finished, and they had thrown their creativity out the window just to get the coding done. THIS problem I will maintain is a problem with EVERY MMO in existence today. Again, creativity falls apart when you are overwhelmed with the massive problematic details of release. This holds for any situation where creativity IS REQUIRED. SWG falling short on game play, GAME PLAY had to be addressed, and this constitutes the ART OF GAME DESIGN, not as much the Science of it.
Because I refused to kiss the ring fingers of the creators and reduce myself to being the spokesman of SOE to the Bounty Hunter community, I was silenced.
You know what's funny? The post that caused my banning from the main forums. When they announced that all players could have Mandalorean Armor, I returned that given this design philosophy, all players should have Light Sabers lol. They were not amused.
So, really, who are the real problems here? Those that continue to think this could and SHOULD be a much better game? Or those that silence the people who think so?
/shrug you be the judge
As it stands, I feel they are continuing to move in the right direction, a direction they should have taken in beta...according to what statements they commonly made then concerning the game play they sought to provide. I continually remind them of what they were looking for, and maybe...just MAYBE somebody heard. Somebody LISTENED.
The credit goes to them for having the will AND the skill to improve this game, and realize that up until now, it hasn't really been a game.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Let me give a clear example why I feel this way today and not in the past:
Single out the Squad Leader changes in the works. Look at them carefully...
These are NOT fixes to broken skills, the science of game design.
These are complete changes involving purpose and game play.
The Ranger is an even greater example of this. Not so much about foraging, as being part of the GCW. A change in purpose, and game play.
The proposed Smuggler changes involve many specific issues that go all the way back to beta, where many of us were pointing out the fact that a Smuggler is not a Drug Dealer in the Star Wars universe, and this is where there was a flaw...in the game play. The changes coming address again...the purpose, and the game play.
Many new changes coming have not so much to do with coding, as the ART of game design. Providing a purpose to Rangers and Squad Leaders that directly address the centerpiece of Star Wars, the Galactic Civil War, suggests to me that SOE has finally come around and recognizes the errors they have been compounding since late beta. Their creativity has been sparked, and they are implementing these new ideas based upon improved game play rather than simple quick fixes to appease the masses.
It's going in the right direction. Whether or not they ever arrive at the destination is another matter.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo