Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
EQ2, lack of variation in starting areas, and suggestions
spydermr2
Member Posts: 336
Big statement, I know. 
Here's the argument. In EQ1, with its variety of starting areas, and because of the design of the larger cities, there was a mixing of races/classes in cities like Queynos all the time -- a mix of levels, which guaranteed a better interaction of players and a deeper community.
In EQ2, the design of the cities is such that most folks I know long to get the hell away from them and not come back. There's little reason to "mingle" in the cities once you're able to stay away from them.
The next expansion should do what the DoF didn't do: introduce new starting areas, or starting "outposts" if doing more cities isn't viable because of size. Complete with starting "areas" around them. Make it possible to travel to the cities, if dangerous. Make the big focus cities something people WANT to visit, instead of something they want to get AWAY from.
Add a new land on the other side of Queynos and Freeport (the non-landed side), saying an earthquake lifted the land or something. Throw the starter outposts on the far sides of those lands or something. I don't know. I do know that the most fundamental flaw in this game is the fact that they designed it in exactly a way to make the two cities things that AREN"T the focal points that old Queynos and Freeport used to be (that's a negative thing, in my opinion).
Think about WoW. They built a game reason to travel to Ironforge and other cities -- not just quests, but also the Auction Houses, and made the biggest cities "hubs" of the air-travel methods. And trainers (I hate the fact that EQ2 just magically grants you abilities instead of making the player make choices, thereby enabling specializations from the beginning, as in, I wanna be an ice mage versus a fire mage). I don't like WoW, but the DESIGN of the game made the cities places where the community congregates, where interactions take place, and where there's a purpose for being there at all levels. I would say the same thing about EQ1, and for that matter many other games. Just using EQ1 and WoW as an example because they're convenient.
Comments
I really hope in the future they introduce some racially specific outposts or villages which eventually turn into cities. It would be pretty easy to incorporate into the storyline IMO.
EQ1 - every race had their own city.
EQ2 Now- the shattering occurs and there are only 2 cities left.
EQ2 Future - The races start to branch back out and reclaim their former lands or new areas if their old homeland is no longer there.
I would also suggest you change the title of the post to something more intuitive. This thread would get more looks that way.
Would be very cool. Good post.
Joined - July 2004
Thanks for the suggestion -- topic re-titled.
I just can't believe how the designers failed to realise what is transparently obvious: that by cramming all the starting areas into the cities, and limiting the game to two cities (as opposed to the out-of-the-box areas in EQ1, which were MANY), they would create an atmosphere that would make the cities less-desireable -- create the desire to get AWAY from them instead of turning them into the game focuses (as they should be, IMO). They should have had the "suburban" starting areas separated from the cities themselves by a zone -- for instance, moving the halfling town to the far side of the Willow Wood, and thereby making the trip to Queynos itself semi-dangerous, would make Queynos a place you go TO.
Now, they can just add new lands, link them up by land (not by those stupid bells), and add outpost/small towns -- preferably with a revamp of the things to do in the cities. For instance, as I advocated over on AggroMe and on the Sony boards: something as simple as putting new trainers in the cities that sell spells/skills that you DON'T automatically get, that you have to buy in order to have it at all. That would introduce some actual player-driven customization of their characters (instead of just "ooh, I upgraded my Fireball to Fireball Apprentice II!!!!" That's far too mechanical-sounding). It would also create a reason for people to go TO the cities. That's just one idea. There are tons that could be done.
The reason they did the two cities thing, is in the begining there was interdependecy. The Devs wanted people to need other people. To make sure there was always someone who had what you needed arouned they put you all together.
This was the inital logic, now that EQ2 has gone away from that model, it would be much easier to implement different starting cities. The problem I see with that is development time. I mean that is a major chunk of content. Think about all the little quests there are around Qeynos, and Freeport.
It's one of the things I really loved about EQ1 (different starting cities) but doubt we'll see it in EQ2.
And to be fair, there is now 3 cities. Who knows what the future will bring. Chance is that the next expansion (6 months from now?) add at least another city. I've heard nothing about what they do or do not plan for future expansions. In part, expansions are part of the mmorg feeling. They add something diffrent to the game.
Maybe they do add that to the storyline (find the ruins of your races birthplace or something). Your best chance to insert some ideas to those in charge is probably /feedback. If written somewhat maturely and with paragraphs, linebreaks and real sentences, and maybe even some content someone somewhere in SOE will read it. Personally I do /feedback whenever I get an idea on what would be cool while playing.
Good post. Although I understand what devs wanted with 2 cities - the less starting locations are, the better interaction between new players (they arent so spread in between the cities). But, they didnt do a good job with the cities. Those cities are broken into pieces (zones) and navigation is VERY annoying. The part of Freeport (where the docks are) is very annoying because if you are at the docks and you want to get up on the higher level, you have to go all the way to northern part then go up the ladder then travel back south... very annoying.
I think the best way to eliminate those annoyances are to either make new starting locs as suggested, or merge freeport/qeynos zones into one, so you dont have to zone in between the parts of the city. And make them more accessable ( a good example is Ironforge from WoW, a round city with easy access to every part of it)
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
The purpose of the thread was to discuss the failings, which is to say, the failing of design to inherently create the reasons and places to mix all levels and classes and thereby create a sense of interdependent community -- as in, places where folks congregate, where higher levels actually help lower levels, provide advice, etc, while also having "game-mechanic" things to do.
The addition of the new city is interesting, but unless I'm mistaken (which I'll freely admit may be the case) it isn't a starting area for new characters. I can't roll up a new character to play there, nor is it advisable for new players to go there and think they can get quests/adventure outside the city perimeter. Correct? The expansion is listed as primarily for higher levels.
The point I'm trying to make is the need for in-game design that makes the "two big cities" into thriving communities instead of the barren wastelands they are now. And I don't mean you won't see a few high-levels here and there: you do. What you don't see is the kind of interaction I recall being in old Queynos (pre-expansions EQ1), or in that big Library area in expanded EQ1 (can't recall what it's properly called). By adding starter outposts and actual new starting areas, and designing game mechanics that provide reasons to visit the two big cities, the game would be revitalised, the cities would have purpose, and the game would be far more dynamic and interesting.
Good post. Although I understand what devs wanted with 2 cities - the less starting locations are, the better interaction between new players (they arent so spread in between the cities). But, they didnt do a good job with the cities. Those cities are broken into pieces (zones) and navigation is VERY annoying. The part of Freeport (where the docks are) is very annoying because if you are at the docks and you want to get up on the higher level, you have to go all the way to northern part then go up the ladder then travel back south... very annoying.
I think the best way to eliminate those annoyances are to either make new starting locs as suggested, or merge freeport/qeynos zones into one, so you dont have to zone in between the parts of the city. And make them more accessable ( a good example is Ironforge from WoW, a round city with easy access to every part of it)
The devs may have thought that the community would congregate and interact in those two cities, but the way the cities were designed create a "I-gotta-get-out-of-here" attitude toward and about the cities -- precisely the wrong end result. I would have advocated having small zones between the cities themselves and the "suburbs", like Willow Wood sized, so that there's a "trip" to be made to get there, thereby providing a "gotta go TO the city" at least in a direction-sense. Also, having MORE starting areas more diversely spread out would be a good thing. Regardless, by concentrating the starting areas in a tight cluster around the two cities, they devalued the two cities themselves so badly that no one wants to go there and few remain there as soon as they can "get away".
Its not a starting area, but you've got to move with the players. And thats where the players are now. There is a ton of content available for the sub 40. There is now a ton of additional content available to the above 40.
You want to discuss the failings? And the failings that you define as failings? My personal experience from launch where that the two starting cities made it easy for old friends to find eachother . Because thats where most of their playerbase came from. Existing veteran mmorg players that brought their friends to the game. If anything, what you define as a failing I would define as a success factor.
At level 46 (and 48) I'm still starting and ending my playing sessions in the Q. I regularly visit Baubleshire, and often have short vists to various Q-parts during my playing sessions. The "I got to get out of here" feeling is something I havent experienced. Oh, I *have* to get out of the city to gain adventurer xp, or fight stuff, but is that a failing?