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What if Blizzard ran SWG ?
admriker444
Member Posts: 1,526
I dont really care for WoW but I will give them credit. That game has basically ZERO bugs. Yes the servers have issues and balance needs some tweaking. But as far as gameplay goes, I cant recall once running across a quest that simply didnt work. And lets face it, the only reason WoW has server issues is because who could have known they'd grab 4+ million players and at such a fast rate.
Looking at SWG, the community is so used to total garbage buggyness that they dont seem to care anymore. The players that remain either dont care (because of their all-consuming pursuit of jedi) or stopped reporting bugs because SOE never fixes anything.
A fine example is the gungan missions at the Sacred Place on Naboo. These missions have been bugged since beta 2 when i first attempted them. I have consistently reported once a week since that time and have had every thread deleted with various responses. From its a known issue to its working as intended (funny considering I didnt know a chat bubble should be empty when an npc chats with me). Its simply unbelievable to think that SOE wont fix this. Is it a matter of policy ? Do they just not want to spent the money and man-hours to bother ? Or is this is simply a matter of incompetence..ie. they tried but dont know how to fix it ?
I also think if Blizzard ran things we'd actually get things long promised to us done. I personally dont buy the dev chat on stratics that promises future profession revamps. Anyone recall the planetary loot revamp ? I recall word for word the same responses from devs.."we'll be doing all planets loot over again very soon"
Overall, I wish SOE would break its contract with Lucas. Im betting Lucas would switch to Blizzard in a second after seeing their success.
Comments
I'm going to be cruel, and say BLEHHHHHHH... *rant mode on*
Blizzard and SOE
SOE - have the experience, and the resources to give everyone a big **** you so that we feel disheartened by their games, and when an expansion comes out we jump at the thought of it, and even actually *buy* it. SOE are masters at manipulation, and manipulate the community into believing that it is a good game, and that we like it.
Blizzard - For years, Blizzard have cared about their games. World of warcraft, their latest incarnation, and I would say their most successful, has also been the title that was most fraught with bugs and problems. Now then, lets compare wow with SWG. SWG started life as a first in the genre. It was going to be the game to play, as it was starwars, it almost had as much acclaim as WoW. The first days of launch weren't smooth, but people could play. Yes it was buggy, yes things didn't work, but we could play. SOE threw the resources they needed to at the game to make it *work* SWG gets in frequent publishes, that rarely add any significant new content, however recently they've been getting better. At the minute, swg has had a combat revamp to revitalise the game, and I believe, that to some extent this has been successful. PvP is now about skill, and not the uber mind fire weapons anymore. But they still fail to fix some of the key issues and some classes remain entirely broken. *commando anyone ?*
Wow At launch, it was APALLING. Easily the worst 2 weeks of any MMO, but this was all due to their amazing sucess, And I think perhaps they saw dollar signs. Since then the updates have been steady, and they have introduced new content. Like when they introduced battlegrounds, But you have to queue up to play, I've seen 2 - 3 hour queues. this is apalling! I'm a PvPer, not a PvE person. But yet I have to WAIT to brutally murder, and chop peoples heads off. This simply isn't fair!
Overall to compare it,
if you want hugs and smiles, and to feel happy and secure in your playtime, and remember watching the carebears, but having to wait and queue to do the more sinister things, go Blizzard.
If you tend to live on the rough and shaky side of the town, where things go bump in the night, but there's battles galore, and murderous rampages, with the odd broken class, and poor support, but all in all a far better experience in that you can do what you think you want to do, go SOE
Personal note:
I have tremendous respect for both companies. blizzard have always made good games, and they always will. They just wen't too far with wow. Not for me, and they should be working on the fact that the game has 2 million subscribers... Cos hell, it isn't designed to have that many people, and it is having problems.
SOE - I played everquest, simple as that. One of the best, but in later years, I have been dissapointed with their titles, especially everquest 2. But they have the people, they have the skills, and they have the resources to make these games work.
This looks to be another war topic to say the very least. Only have a few things to say as I am sure the others that will come will cover everything else.
1. WoW is not bug free. Played the game since release and it has its share of issues involving many things. Ask a hunter about the lean times to say the least or perhaps a Warsong Alliance party about shaman a few months back. Though to be entirely fair, they do iron out things in measured and paced time and many of the above are fixed but there are still issues. Let us not even mention what it is like to enter the AH in Ironforge on a Friday night. I will say that their quest system beats most hand down as their is a story line to follow and continuity.
2. While SOE is not on my fav list, as time has gone by I have seen that Lucas Art may well be playing the Emperor's role in the issues that seem to plague the game. I am sure that contract that SOE agreed to is worthy of a 100 lawyers typing away like monkeys so it may not be fair to say that Blizzard would fair better under those constraints. Blizzard had the enormous luxury of working on a game line that they owned so there was little if any outside interference.
SWG will always draw a crowd and they are making strides albeit slow at best and some errant. Good news is that they seem to now be responding to the public on certain matters. Bad news is that they are bound to the Jedi majority rule. Customer service is still the pits at least from what I hear from old guild mates. Blizzard's isnt all that much better.
What strikes me as hilarious is that Star Wars will always be a matter of debate and anger. Be it the movies or the game. Everyone has their idea of what should be and what shouldn't. It came in with nigh on 30 years of expectations. No mean feat to satisfy the lot of us. I dont envy SOE and I am sure there have been days where they wish they hadn't taken the task of recreating the setting.
My only suggestions to anyone who has the SWG game or any mmorpg is to keep the content rolling in and take a look at bugs and iron them out. I fear that SOE's staff is somewhat limited to rally give a whole hearted attempt to the later at the moment.
You are assuming Blizzard would do a better job based upon WoW's performance, but you are forgetting some important factors.
Let's stick to the biggest one....
Lucas would still be calling the shots. So, every major foulup would still be there, up to and including catering to Jedi chuckleheads.
Just look how Blizz performed at release, given Vivendi pushed them out after 2.5 weeks of open beta, that was closed, just to race with EQ2 which was also pushed out the door broken and incomplete, because they were racing against WoW.
This is why all marketing personnel in both companies, and their publishers, should be shot on sight.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
SOE lost me from the get go based on the correspondence I had with thier customer service and what I have read in the forums. They had a great game and blew it thinking they can basically treat the customers they had like crap yet would still play the game because it was a great game.
If they had better interaction with the customer base from the get go I think folks would have been more patient with the game and would have stayed. I lasted through many of the reward periods and then some but no longer play nor will I return. Sad really, it was an awsome premis for a game.
(sorry for the latre reponse on this thread but really wanted to response to it)
This is like asking who could build a picture frame better. A 5-year-old, or a carpenter. The carpenter would do this beautifully, only flaws would be in the eye of the beholder. The child, however, wouldn't even master the 90-degree angles and we'd have a lopsided, uncomplete pile of trash that was turned away from upon realizing their pathetic attempt of a picture frame was too much to worry about when you have Hot Wheels to play with.
DISCLAIMER: I know WoW is not perfect, I don't want to hear your lame-ass fanboy accusations. I quit WoW a long time ago. But there is no denying how polished the game is.
Seeing as both only have 1 game I've played consistently for more than 2 years, Starcraft and SWG, they'd both end up dynamically the same.
Plus, it's Lucasarts' game, they call the shots so realistically it would be the same game regardless of who ran it.
No game company is as unduly praised as Blizzard and no game company is as unduly dogged as SOE.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
What you describe there isn't bugs. It's balance issues. All games have them, hell Daoc still recieves balance changes and fixes (Not meant as a bad thing). Balancing is something that goes on through the whole life time of a game.
If you lag in IF at a Friday night it's your computer not Wow that is the problem. It's like saying EQ2 is a bug infested hell because your 32 mb riva tnt isn't running it smoothly.
Wow is together with GW and maybe EQ2 the most polished mmo that has hit the market. The game starts and doesn't crash. All quests work. I think a total of 5 quests have been bugged, that isn't much when you think about that the game has 2500-3000 quests. Basicly the whole game is bug free, the only thing they had problems with was the servers.
Back on topic. I don't think blizzard would be able to run SWG. Like people have said before, Lucas arts is forcing SOE to deliver new expasions instead of fixing bugs. All developers are working on the expasions and are forced to put bug fixing as a secondary. So I think the result would be the same if Blizzard would run it or not. It's more Lucas arts that is the problem.
No bugs, eh? Try telling that to a warrior at the moment. Seeing that after you charge there is a decent chance you get disconnected from the server and while you try to log back in - you are taking the big beat down. Known bug. Oh it will be fixed but saying a game has no known bugs is overly optimistic. And charge is kinda important in the grand scheme of warrior's play styles as it tends to be the first button pressed to initiate combat.
Or how about the RAID ID issue? At higher levels, its a bit of an problem and occurs more often than you would think. Known bug.
I still consider the Warsong Graveyard exploit to be one worthy of a fix and not one to pass off as a "everyone does it" thing. Not a bug but not a balance issue either. Just game affecting and known for quite a while.
I could go on about the numerous known technical issues about CTDs but again all mmorpgs have them. Even WoW.
And I beg to differ about that lag issue in IF. Yes, many instances can be blamed on a pc or video card but you would be less than honest to say Blizzard isn't at fault for that particular area. Bug okay no...poor planning or ill conceived idea yes. One little room in a vast city with 3 auctioneers is not exactly the best laid plan. Lag is present even if your vaunted video card is purring and tweaked.You mentioned balance issues. Yep every game has them. SOE has had a few epic cases such as the smuggler, SL and Ranger. WoW has had some equally problematic ones with paladins, shaman and again I mention the hunter. Their pets were bugged as well and for a good bit of time. So in this category - its a draw.
And this was on topic. The question was asked who would make a better Star Wars. I stated what I experienced from both companies and pointed out issues without the use of rose colored glasses. Again my main point was they both would come under the rule of Lucas Arts and WoW's rep would garner little weight in that power struggle. SOE carried a lot more weight into their contract at that time and look where it has gotten them. Yeah, WoW could make it but then in the end - it would be the same save perhaps a bit more cartoony graphics.
I dont know where everyone assumes Lucas is behind the problems. That may be the case on a few issues. However, I look at SOE's other games and the problems are exactly the same.
EQ1 - I didnt play much of it but from what Ive read and been told by friends its typical SOE...ignore the 2 year old bugs and release another expansion
EQ2 - Combat was so unbalanced they had to do a combat revamp. CU anyone ? So similiar its scarey and SOE totally controls EQ2
I think Lucas owns its share of messes but its clear from SOE's track record they are incompetent
One big thing is ;
Blizzard patch every three months.
SOE (any game) patch things every month minimum.
Not saying SOE are better but they have advanced MMOs further than Blizzard have9Even taking time etc into account)
Blizzard are very very slow to fix and patch. And theyre CS is worst ive ever seen anywhere. You petition for something like say yer stuck.The GM ,who will use a macro( india based?) will respond after 5 hours sometimes. He *might* fix it but probably he will change yer name first. Then when they sign of they say "Glad to help,is there anything else i can help you with right now?" (macro they all use this one or similar) if you reply "yes xyz xyz etc" the reply you ALWAYS get is " If you require to speak to a GM you must petition for one.Have a nice day" tards.
You better be careful, talk like that and your keyboard might catch fire.
I've given up for the most part trying to defend SOE. Whatever they do is evil, even if Blizzard does the exact same thing, when they do it it's all good, if SOE does it it's evil. It's just cool to hate the big boys, and in the MMO market SOE is big boy. Nobody has been doing it longer, or been as successful (sure if you count numbers, but lets talk about longevity).
The only thing I wanted to comment on was Wepps said EQ2 was broken on release, which I don't agree with at all. EQ2 had the best realease of any MMO to date (with the possible exception of CoH), so I'd like some specifics on what exactly you thought was broken.
Not to get into a pissing contest, but I think Blizzard is light years ahead of SOE. Sony might have had Everquest out way before World of Warcraft, but I believe that Blizzard did a much better job making the cookie cutter field more polished.
Maybe SOE can respond faster to a GM page due to the lack of members they have compared to WoW. I must admit I don't play EQ2 or WoW, but from what I've seen WoW is a much better game.
When a MMORPG says "Come back now, free 14 days... bla bla bla" that usually means their customer base is next to nothing.
Just a thought, you might want to think about it.
What will he do next?
All I know is the game lacks a centralized theme and story. It could really the touch of a polished story writer to write content and a developer or two to impliment some stories. Just to keep it fresh.
Also jedi need to be addressed.
Blizzard earns their money, SOE finds ways to make their money.
You can play WoW and know in 5 seconds you are in the World of Warcraft made popular by the Warcraft games over the years.
You can play SWG and never feel like your part of the Star Wars story made popular by the movies, books and franchise over the last 3 decades.
When I look at games like KOTOR, Episode III and the many other console games based on Star Wars, there is an obvious a real connection to the Star Wars universe.
The license should be pulled from SOE and given to someone passionate about making what should be the most popular mmorpg on Earth.
If I was in the big corner office, I would have some one's ass when I was informed the most popular and loved fantasy franchise of all time was being out sold and outnumbered in memberships in little unknown games with no past marketing.
Where the hell is Lucas on this travesty of his story.
Totally agree.
On subject though, I'm pretty torn on this. I've not been impressed with SoE in the past, but when I moved to WoW I was even less impressed with Blizzard. I personally had a lot more hassle with their CSRs not doing their jobs, than I've ever had with SoE. Also the community a Blizzard game produces is by no means imaginable close to that of a SoE product. Bugs wise and content wise, I'd probably give it to Blizzard. However as for fixes and actually listening to the customer I'd go back with SoE. Hunter nerfs and the "just go play it, as we aren't changing anything" attitude Blizzard had over the honour system really wound me up. Yeah SoE's track record hasn't been good, but I still feel its better than what Blizzard have been doing and they (SoE) are finally showing signs of improving.
So to sumarise I do think Blizzard could produce a better SWG. However bugs fixes would be even slower than SoE, they would completely ignore the customers and the community would be full of kids. So I'm not convinced they would create a better (or equal) gaming experience, hence why torn.
About the high lighted area, I couldn't agree any more then you there. I think SOE just takes what they already have and throws in some new graphics and a little bit of EQ1 and *POOF* you got SWG.
Look at EA. They have the longest running title ever, something like 16 or 24 "Madden Football" games, and with EA having ALL the rights to the NFL, we will only be seeing games from EA in the years to come.
It's never any fun when a company gets a license and then kills it for everyone.
What will he do next?
I wont play any other game run by SOE. Not even if I am tortured to do it. They may stick bamboo splinters under my nails and I still wont play SOE games. They may hammer my toes..i wont do it!!
I dont care what could that possibly be...not a chance!!!
SOE=
I refuse to compare WoW to SWG. You're comparing apples to oranges:
1) WoW is merely Fantasy MMORPG that only has to deal with ground based combat.
2) WoW is run by the company that owns the franchise.
3) WoW is only 10 months old.
SWG on the other hand is:
1) Based on both land and space combat.
2) Has more professions to balance.
3) Has more combinations of professions and skills to balance.
4) Is run by 2 companies, one who understands the technical requirements and has their ear to the gaming community, the other (LucasArts) who controlls the marketting of the game and does not pay much attention to the needs or desires of the community.
5) SWG is over 2 years old.
SWG supports two entirely different combat systems. A much more involved and intricate quest system. A more intricate skill system, a much more intricate "level" system, a much more intricate crafting system and a far far far more intricate social system.
It's better to compare WoW to EQ2
Both companies own the franchise
Both companies control the marketting
Both companies control the vision
SOE has released more content.
SOE has fixed more bugs.
SOE has answered the communities needs at every turn.
SOE has balanced the game better.
And, if you honestly play both games and look at both games and experience both games...
For me, anyway, WoW PALES in comparison to EQ2.
So, no, I honestly DONT think that Blizzard would do better than SOE with SWG... if anything they'd do about the same, but more than likely it'd be worse.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Blizzard or even NC Soft would do a MUCH better job at a Star Wars than $OE did.
It has been TWO YEARS after the launch, and SWG is more buggy than it was at launch. They have done NOTHING but piss away the franchise since they had it. This new CU "fix" has done more to ruin the game than a VIRUS could.... just driving away subscribers.
I mean Blizzard has launched their own MMORPG from GROUND up.. and it is 1000 times less buggy and more fun than ANYTHING $OE has created, and they already had how many years of EQ under their belt? $OE has had TWO YEARS to fix SWG and it is an unadulterated MESS.
Then look at the care Blizzard puts in their own storyline and contunity. They are TRUE to their mythos. $OE set the world between EpIV and EpV.. and there's Grievous, 100000 Jedi and I hear they're adding Alderaan in the next expansion :P
I haven't even brought up the customer service aspect, or the community respect... because it is hard to compare Blizzard's good job compared to $OE's complete lack of any.
SWG is the poster child for wasted potential.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I'm sorry, you obviously don't play. It is nowhere NEAR as buggy as it was at release. Most major bugs have been stomped. Bugs are NOT the reason people are leaving the game, nor is the CU. TONS of people joined AFTER the CU. What broke it for a huge chunk of players was the XP nerf. Granted they rolled that one back. But if you compare the number of folks who left in protest over CU vs. the number of folks who left after the XP nerf it's like comparing a boulder to a mountain. A lot went back after the XP nerf was reversed but for a large chunk of those who left it was the last straw (I was in that crowd) and it'll take a minor miracle to bring us back.
Sorry, I've played both WoW and SWG and currently (as of the time that I left in August) has fewer bugs and less annoying bugs than WoW does. Personally I find WoW excruciatingly boring, especially in it's "end game". Doing the same instance over and over and over again is not fun. I don't care what you think. WoW is like that $10 prostitute on the corner. She looks GREAT till you get her under a light brighter than 10w.
LOL now you're just making stuff up. SWG is pretty good about sticking to continuity as far as in-game content goes. The only things that really violate the 'timeline' are Jedi and non-human Empire members. Other than that the GAME sticks to the storyline pretty well. I question some of the things that were added but if you READ The content they are pretty careful to stay inside the timeline and explain any odd things very well. Stuff from EP1-3 would still be around during EP IV-VI. Duh... The Millenium Falcon exsisted prior to EP1 if you read the source material. She was OLD when Han Got her. And that was when the Empire was just recently formed..
Um... do you PLAY WoW?? I'm sorry, their CS is FAR FAR FAR inferior to SOE's. SOE's was bad about 6-7 months ago. But since January'ish it's been vastly better. And WoW has almost no CS to speak of. Good luck getting in game help from a GM in WoW... And you're comparing WoW's community to SWG's? I'm sorry, I have to call BS here. WoW's community SUCKS compared to SWG's.
This I agree with. SWG should have been to MMORPG's what WoW is. It SHOULD have had millions and millions of subscribers. The problem with SWG is that the two headed hydra that manages it can't keep on the same track more than 25% of the time. SWG's biggest problem has been scope creep and lack of coherant management and direction.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Never Played? Since launch sucka. Only cancelled for the first month of the CU in protest, but came back after $OE ate the Matrix.
No bugs? Good LORD. I'm currently waiting for 3 separate quests to get fixed. There are still 4 completely useless professions. The graphics are still borked. Not to mention the crushing lag that didn't exist pre-cu. There's crazy bugs.. NOTHING like the server 3 months after launch.
The server population NEVER recovered from the great exodus when the CU was pushed. Sure, there were new members, but many those have left. You blame the XP nerf, but that WAS ROLLED BACK THE NEXT DAY. Boredom and bugs is what is really driving them off.
Crafting was severly gimped with the uber loot drops. Weaponsmiths can't compete with the stuff that drops on Kashyyyk for free. That and the ADK. Shipwrights can't make a fighter better than the Bellebub or Jedi fighter.
Continuity???? Come ON... Grievous lives, everyone and their brother has free clone tooper armor, You can't swing a dead cat without hitting 3 jedi... the list goes on and on.
As far as ANY of the goals of the CU.. NONE have been achieved.
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Now compare that to Wow.
I've never had lag, Never had a broken quest, and quite frankly, NEVER found a bug.
When there WERE server issues at launch.. they GAVE US FREE MONTHS OF GAMEPLAY. $OE ever do anything close? Double XP was a bad idea, because it created thousands of Jedi.
They've never charged for a bogus "expansion Pack" that SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONTENT.
$OE ignored the game for the first year, and I thought it was bad.. but then I saw what they do when they DON'T ignore it.. and it made it much much worse.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
But let's compare the complexity of the games shall we?
WoW: Pick a single class, hope it isn't gimped now or later, play through a bunch of missions tha are pretty much all the same. I could get the same thing from Diablo II, same game just different quests and graphics.
SWG: Pick any skills I want. If some get/are gimped drop them and learn something else. I get board fighting, I can craft with arguably the best crafting system ever made (and if you think the new loot is better than what a WS can make, you need to find a new WS).
I get sick of that, I can RUN MY OWN CITY. That gets old, I can head to space. Still not enough, I can go fishing, dancing, Decorate my house, etc, etc.
Get bored with the same quests just different names in WoW, well I can click a couple of buttons for the lame crafting system,...or play Diablo II.
The pure scope of everything that is possible with SWG means there are going to be more bugs, I mean think about it: What would be harder to code Tic-Tac-Toe (WoW) or Axis and Allies (SWG).
Oh and if you say you haven't lagged in WoW you either:
1) Have never played WoW
or
2) are lying.
Here's something that should rock your world: Take a look in the back SWG book at the credits. Look at who's responsible for Quality Assuance. Guess who he works for? That's right Bucky good ole LucasArts signs his paycheck. So everytime you see a bug in the game, he wrote off on it.
Now let's take a look at history:
SOE: Most successful MMO to date (EQ)
LucasArts: A whole butt-ton of uninspired craptacular games, with a couple that didn't completely suck.
Now look at the way EQ2 is being run by comparison to SWG. It's night and day. SOE is the same, the only difference is LA.
El,
SWG will NEVER be and could NEVER be what WoW is. WoW appeals to the masses. It's checkers. It's a fun game that people can use to blow off steam when they're tired of thinking. The pure scope of SWG means it will never appeal to as many people as WoW does, and to me that's a GOOD thing.