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Are you doing some pvp?
Kuppa
Member UncommonPosts: 3,292
I wonder because Ive read a lot of what folks are doing in this game, but very few seem to be talking about the pvp. The only things I hear is what I partially experienced in the CB. Huge queues for arena pvp(because no one really wants to play it) and using Fusang for AP/SP farming just doing the quest.
The latter was not really happening in the beta, it was either completely empty or some folks getting in on some action in Fusang. I wonder how it has changed and how many are actually pvping in this game. If you are please specify what pvp you are doing.
Comments
PvP in TSW is really something. Everytime I make a post on the official forums about things like AoE needs to be balanced with multiple applications in mind, a week later when I've learned more and adjusted, I end up regretting it.
1st month the masses were using ARs, so people built glance tanks to counter. This month it's glance tanks, so people like me are stacking up on hit and using sngle hit abilities instead of multi hit. The buld counter building being done by the community is something I haven't seen before.
TSW pvp is not for everyone though. It's unforgiving and mistakes will me punished with repeated death. I myself coudn't ask for more, except new maps. Maps have an effect more so than any other mmo I've played. I'd like to see more dynamic maps that challenge the pvpr and their builds.
Queues are dependent on faction population. I play dragon, my queues are never more than 2 minutes. The templar are higher up to 15 minutes with the lumies in between. There are usually around 45 Stonehenge matches per hour. Each match is 15 minutes. This means a lot of people are queueing for matches.
Fusang has started to thin out a bit instead of 75v75v75 its more like 40v30v20 now. There is room to avoid the zerg and kill people in back alleys now. As far as the pacing FC said that the style of play in Fusang at the start of the month was not intended, and they are looking at changing the pace.
That means that the least populated takes 2 minutes to queue up. Is it because there are too many people queuing up or not enough? a 2 minute queue is huge and it seems hard to believe its because TSW can't handle enough pvp instances. BTW how do you know there are 45 SH matches per hour? is there a stat or something?
Will Fusang end up like Ilum?
2 minutes tops. It's because of how the faction population play styles are.
The devs say all the populations are within a couple/few percent. It's just dragons for the most part don't pvp as much. I guess they are RPing or doing investigations lol. On the other hand the templar are like the Spatans. Theyy all pvp, while the lumies do a little bit of everything. So too many templar are queuing, and not enough dragons to get the templar queues down.
As far as the number of matches TSW records wins and loses on a 1 hour cycle in the pvp window. You can see the numbers there.
Nah not even close Fusang works. Ilum was broken and their devs said "we don't have the tech to fix." The only debate about Fusang is playstyle. Right now you have a zerg 20-40 people of each faction running from facility to facility, with people like me mixed in who love to catch slow pokes and scagglers on the side away from the zergs. Since it's no longer 75v75v75 all the time there is more room to operate and you do not need to stay with the zerg.
As stated the devs said the zerg style was not intended. Nota intended style but a style that works non the less.
No fusang will not end up like ilum.
In SWTOR i was banking on ilum as my go-to endgame activity.
The problems with ilum was, basically two things. The Hero engin was unable to run ilum smoothly even on good systems. A majority of players were getting single diget FPS on low settings, and low settings were pretty sparse on graphical bling. To top it all off the backround and scenery was extrely busy, lots of land machines attacking eachother, jets flying over, cannons firing...all of it wasnt needed and didnt really add to the game...all it did was strain peoples systems that were already recieving an unplayable experience. Also they didnt include the ability to turn off other peoples animations. So three fold, with the engine performing poorly, the backround adding to it, and removing the ability for people to really customize their graphics settings added to the mess.. oh and i forgot the audio turning to distortion...seems if audio has a FPS it would have been single diget too,
Then the issue was its mechanics and layout. Way...way...to much open space between objectives even when it was packed it would take a long time just to find people, and then to get there. Mechanics of ilum were pretty boring with people basically camping the other sides base. There were no real base defense mechanics that would have given the defenders an advantage, and there was no capture mechanic that would have resulted in the dominating side perhaps capturing then moving on. It was nothing but a standoff and one where melee got to sit in the backround and watch the ranged get a shot or two off on a daring enemy player before he returned to saftey. There was no need to go back and cap other stuff since only 3 objectives and it concentrated players in the safe-base and led to a long standoff.
People often stated when on the dominating team to not complete an objective as to not scare away the other side ect.
Fusang has people spread out, theres room for small group play, theres a crap load more objectives. It runs smooth on a medium rig.
If fusang was like ilum fusang would be a ghost town, which ilum was very shortly after launch. The differences between fusang and ilum are pretty drastic. Only similairites is that they were both persistant pvp zones, and thats where the similairites end.
The only reason why I bring out Ilum is that it is not doing what it was inteded for. I say this because all the folks Ive heard from Fusang say it has turned into an AP/SP farm were folks mainly just do the quests and not really pvp.
You can only farm the missions every 30 min. If your goal is to farm sp/ap its good to run fusang completel the missions the leave and go kill elites, which is far better sp/ap farming anyway.
Theres plenty of pvp, its somewhat avoidable and its very fun to walk in on an enemy faction trying to drop a boss.
If fusang was anything like ilum then it would be dead already. The only reason people stood around in ilum in the back while two groups stood off was because they werent able to play, their fps was far too low...or like me...i was melee and really couldnt lure out anyone to attack, it was just ranged players trying to get shots off on daring people who would duck back into base, and as a melee i knew i could walk away and come back and nothing would have changed other than some more...man cant remember the name of whatever people farmed on ilum...but you get the idea.
Also, side question...you going to be as interested in this game while your playing GW2? Dont mean that as an insult your actually non-troll like with your questions...just strange to see some people seem very very interested in this game when having no intentions on playing it...i actually dont mind posting in your threads here unlike some of your fellow gw players.
PVP is fun.. Personally though, I'm still too busy playing around with different weapon combos and builds to spend a lot of time in PVP. What time I did spend in PVP was an absolute blast though. So far the only one I have tried is Fusang, and it was interesting. I've been in at times where it was a zerg fest, and other times where it seemed like there were maybe 20 people per faction tops running around, and not in very cohesive groups (read: lotsa 1v1, 1v2).
There's no way Fusang could turn out like Ilum.. Heck where do I start... 3 factions vs 2 is a good start. A game engine the doesn't suck, and a wealth of skills to build your player out just how you like... In TOR, I knww what I was up against the moment I saw it.. Generally in TSW all you know is what kind of skills they might hit you with, you won't really know their build until you look over your logs and see what they did to ya.
I did notice something in the threads that kinda screamed alarm to me... 2 minute PVP queues being "Huge".. Is that like a new fangled definition of Huge?? You know, like how Bad is slang for really good? Hey man that's Bad! Are you saying Huge as in 2 minute queues are so freakin awesome that it's a Huge thing for you? Or are you saying that 120 seconds is too long to wait??? Cause.. well.. 2 minute queues are freakin awesome!!!
I am interested, mainly the story part of it. I ask about pvp because my experience in the CB was not great and in MMOs Im mainly a pvpier. I just don't see myself paying a sub for it. So my hope is that it will go f2p eventually. (For me f2p is not a bad word or means a bad thing. But I see how it could be persieved as bad especially if the game was a sub originally)
On the Fusang stuff, Im not necessarily saying it will be exactly like Ilum. But that its inteded purpose is not what is actually happening.
You familair with the funcom "f2p" model? When this game does go free it will only be origional content and expansion OP gear and advancement will be reserved for paying players. They always set their games up so that free players get stomped by paying players.
If i were you, id go have my fun with GW2 then come back after funcom expands pvp and adds more content, will certainly be worth the sub even if you clear it all in a month or two. Games a bit sparese on the pvp side right now but they say more is planned.
Pertty good amount of fun in fusang and the battleground with 3 factions imo. Having no classes really adds to the pvp depth as well. Will be solid pvp once they expand it.
Did not know that about their f2p model... I could into the story content itself though. Which definatelly was fun in the beta, just not something I would pay a sub for.
PvP belong in FPS games, so no, I don't PvP. I went to try it out once to see what it was all about, spent about 10 minutes running around, dying and killing, then thought it was just as pointless as those FPS games. Counterstrike with magic. Run around, die, respawn, pew-pew, capture the flag, repeat ad infinitum.
I'll never see the appeal, it's just so mind numbingly boring to me.
Were did you get that idea?? PvP doesn't "belong" in specific genres. The appeal lies in the fact that you aren't fighting dumb AI mobs anymore. Everytime its different because of the human element.
Most like got that idea from all the failed MMOPvP games that litter the internet highway. Or all the QQ that comes from pvp in pve games.
I think there is more than enough evidence that pvp doesn't work all that well in a MMORPG. You just have to look at all the QQ about pvp on this site. Even the pvp cenric games have QQ about what is pvp and what isn't.
Yes it does belong. If you have a bad experience with it it doesn't mean that others don't want it. Look at GW1 for that matter or DAOC. Its a matter of taste, its fine if you do not like it but saying it doesnt belong is far fetched.
Started a new character. PvP in Fusang is a good way to get AP and black marks for later. And it's funner on my new server.
I have a Dragon on Arcadia, but I got sick of the faction imbalance there and re-rolled another Dragon on Cerberus. I am glad I did. Cerberus is a much more faction balanced server and it makes Fusang a lot funner. On Arcadia, during the times I play, which can be any time since I'm on vacation, it was usually dominated by Templar. For example, 50 Templars v. 3-7 Dragon and 10-15 Lumies. The Lumies love to come kill Dragon if they can for their player quests. Not fun most of the time.
Having a lot more fun on Cerberus Fusang. However, the queue time for Stonehenge is ridiculous. I don't know why. I have only been in once. I usually wait 30-45 minutes without a pop, then just go Fusang. It might be because my skill level is low and there are not as many new players in that low bracket. I don't know. Stonehenge popped pretty quickly for Dragon on Arcadia.
I haven't even tried El Dorado.
On this new character, I'm just banking up my black marks. I will save them till QL10. While leveling, I will use sequins and whatever I get on the way.
Interesting, I too am a dragon on Cerberus. My queue time are a max of 2 minutes, instant more times than not. Are the battle grounds even separated by QL? I know they said they would be, but I run with a QL5ish RL friend all the time.
You might even try to call support on this one or petition a gm.
Wow, even with 3 factions you can still run into huge imbalances. 50 vs 7 vs 15!
45 minute queue time for arenas?!
Iluminati here on cerebus, never had to wait more than 5 min for the battlegrounds and never more than a few minuets for fusang.
Not sure what the issue is tbh.
I think the battlegrounds are separated by your skill points. That's what I meant, if I didn't say it clearly. I think I read that in a thread here, but I don't know if it's true.
Since I'm on a new re-roll, I think my weapon skill is 3 or 4. Probably not as many new players, was my guess. Most of the action might be players with higher weapon skills. Just my theory after 2 days on this toon. But I don't know what's up with my wait times for Stonehenge.
It's fine for games that are designed from the ground up to be a PvP game, such as Planetside for example, but your general MMORPG I don't think it belongs at all. Let me explain my reasons behind that.
RPG's are all about working together, they always have been. From the tabletop games with your group of friends exploring dungeons, to computer RPG's where you have a team of npc's you control or are AI controlled, there was never any focus to kill your fellow player. In pretty much every tabletop game I've ever played (with the except of Paranoia!) killing your fellow player was heavily frowned upon. If the players characters had problems they could work it out another way, with fighting being a last resort. A lethal fight was almost unheard of!
To me, an RPG should be about working together against something you could never face alone, be it a dragon, hell demon or a rabbit that will take your head off if you get near. In an MMO it's about bringing a mass of players together to do exactly that. Killing each other just seems out of place, it should be kept strictly to FPS's or games designed purely for that sort of activity.
Again, thats what you think RPGs should be. Many of us see pvp as an integral part of an MMO. And I would call me and a group of friends pvping working together
Bringing a mass of players to kill a big boss that really only needs that many players to kill it because it has a huge hp pool is not really that compeling. The enemies you talk about in your vision of RPG are smarter than what we have in any MMO, unless your vision includes killing a mob of enemies that stand in a spot and even if they a can see you wont attack you until you get in their "aggro" zone and wont attack you even if they see you decimate the mob right next to them. Pve mechanics are just as "out of place" with your vision as you say pvp is.
I never said it was perfect, but it's a start. To be honest, I expected a LOT more from this genre than we've been given. When I was playing EverQuest all those years ago I was dreaming of future computers that could run more realistic graphics, more detailed and realistic AI, quests that would change based on your own actions, and many other thoughts that linked with the MUSH's I was playing before it.
But instead everything has dumbed down to the most basic of premises. It's an RPG so you have levels. It's fantasy so you kill orcs. You gain XP by hitting things. Blah blah blah. With the power of modern computers and the brains that program such amazing technology, we could have had the most awesome MMORPG ever invented by now. But no, they instead make popcorn games for people with the average brain power of a gnat.
Minor rant over.
For me to accept PvP - open PvP that is - into an RPG, there would have to be consequences, and I don't just mean a group of people jumping you for what you've done and sending you back to your respawn point. That's pointless. It doesn't mean anything. For PvP to be a real part of an RPG there would have to be serious consequences, from having your character perma killed to being jailed for an indefinite period. From all rumors World of Darkness might be bringing this level of realism, and that's one game I'm looking forward to trying.
How would you feel about PvP being open world, but at the same time having the threat of perma-death over your head for killing someone? Thinking about it, doesn't DayZ do that? I've never looked at that game, but I don't believe it's the level I'm looking for.