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[Column] World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria: Pandaria vs. Tyria



  • rissiesrissies Member Posts: 161
    I'm less interested in their launch success, and more interested on where they are 6 months down the road with subs/gem store. I'll be playing GW2 ~ but not MoP (not because I think badly of the expansion, but because I prefer Rift anyway and intend to keep it as my subscription-based game)
  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne Member UncommonPosts: 1,549

    WoW is the king for the foreseeable future.

    It's even got fishing for when you feel like meditating.

    GW2 hype = SWTOR hype.

    Eventually, a game will come along that manages to combine WoW + Minecraft + 3D vision + up-to-date graphics, but that day most certainly hasn't arrived yet.


  • IllyssiaIllyssia Member UncommonPosts: 1,507
    I think, Garret, the point to bear in mind is that WoW is a declining game, it lost over a million subs in last couple of months. The expansions have all patched in a  little more content, but they don't add in as much content as was present at the launch of WoW. So after less than a month most players end up on the PvE raid treadmill again. I think this was fine a few years ago, but in 2012 the mmo market seems to have changed towards free-to-play models. Now this is where GW2 may shine against WoW Panda expansion. There is a lot of game with GW2 (1-80), much more so than in the Panda expansion. So my bet is that WoW will decline further, and Panda expansion will be the weakest in terms of sales yet. 
  • ZeGermanZeGerman Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Originally posted by gr0und3d

    One thing that I am curious about is GW2's staying power besides PvP.  Won't it get old playing for hours and hours and getting really cool stuff only to zone in and scale? 

    For example:

    1: "Hey buddy, thanks for coming to help!"

    2: "No problem I am a master at GW2!"

    1: "Wow!  Your +1000 Sword of Godkilling does the same damage as this bucket I picked up over there."

    Is that a legitimate concern in GW2?  I haven't played it yet.

    Simply put no its not.  GW2 is trying to get away from exactly what you just said.  It is not meant to be I spent 500 hours grinding an instance to have the best gear now submit to me.  It is a skill based game not a time based game.  The best players will be the best because they are constantly honing their dodging ability and their skill use not because they have spent massive amounts of time grinding.  Even from what weve seen of the late game dungeons its all about skill adventure and exploration much like the original GW.  Average high level gear and the best highlevel gear was maybe a 10% difference in GW1.


    This wont be for everyone but it is what it is and people need to accept that.

  • Flaming_MMOFlaming_MMO Member Posts: 137

    I may end up buying GW2, or may not.   I tried the beta briefely and came out unimpressed.  At this point not interested in either game and think the MMO genre is not necessarily "dying" (Well, I guess it might be just a slow death) but I find it lacks the innovation, entertainment, and advances in gameplay that go into most other NON-mmo games out there.


    It went from one of my favorite of not my favorite genres and gradually has become to me a regurgitating, boring, mess.

  • Medicated03Medicated03 Member UncommonPosts: 40
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Regarding GW 2, I like it since it is a new fresh game. My intention is to get max lvl asap and then just grind WvWvW. I am not interested in anything else in that game to be honest.

    You will be missing out on a lot of cool stuff.  I'm going to do the oposite.  Explore every nook and crany of the gameworld and will jump into WvW to satiate my pvp fix. 

    However, even if you rush ahead like you say you will, the scaling down to match content will still make all of the content relevant to you.  IMO, that has got to be one of GW2 greatest feature....and WoW's biggest flaw.

    I understand the message that you are trying to communicate.

    The thing is, I am not so much into cosmetic rewards, titles, achievements, and similar stuff. I do not claim I enjoy gear GRIND, but I kind of appreciate having some sort of treasure (=items making my character more powerful, for me) in the game. This is why I am not very much concerned with the PVE aspect of the game.

    I know that for many people, the game will be a great experience as a whole and you will probably get immersed and play for hours just exploring the world enjoying every bit the game has to offer. Unfortunately, I am a person that needs some sort of carrot in the game (which can be gear, but also sandbox elements such as building, crafting with depth, longterm consequences to my actions, etc). I see GW 2 as a themepark which for its PVE side offers cosmetics, titles, achievs which is not a bad thing, it is just not for me.

    I do appreciate that GW 2 is going for maximum balance between new and old players taking the gear out of the equation, so that it gives room for WvWvW to be an experience similar to Starcraft (I must sound like a broken record here, I repeat this a lot) where only skills matter. This is what I am going for. I will not play GW as my main MMO. For that, I need a different type of game. I can imagine playing ArcheAge as my main MMO and every time I am bored or tired, I switch to WvWvW just like now I switch to Starcraft II or some FPS.

    (P.S. ArcheAge is just an example of a game that I would like to play as my main MMO, I know this particular game may end up as failure since it has not been released yet)

    Hope it is understandable


    lol i feel the same in many ways, i like carrots, the thing i find amusing about GW2 is to me its just going to turn into achievement grind/skin grind, its like replacing gear grind with other things that dont really appeal to me and  i still see the exact same ammount of epeens needing stroking, elitist jerks and the usual clowns their fanboys hate on WoW so much for all being in GW2 , i was hyped as hell for GW2 a few years back.... now i doubt ill even buy it and i really dont see longevity in the whole dynamic quest system, dynamic events in rift  were fun for a few weeks, then it was just zzzzz at the end of the day it might be pretty but quests in MMO's are still kill X, go to Z, pick Y, save A, follow B, thats what quests are a tool for lvling that will hardly change no matter how they present them to you, im hoping the %1 chance that FFIV relaunch makes it worth playing or ill be jumping from game to game to relieve boredom as usual

  • crazyed66crazyed66 Member UncommonPosts: 18

    I think there is another issue here that most people don't take into account, an issue that really effects gamers and that is the "Leaving Home" syndrome. I stopped playing WOW a while ago now but after many dedicated years and maxed toons I didn't realise how hard it would be to leave!!!!   It was strangly disturbing, a bit like giving away an old pet dog cause you are moving overseas!!!

    All arguments aside there is far more to this and GW2 is better or WOW is better, many friends of mine will NEVER leave WOW until Azeroth implodes. Some aknowledge that GW2 is the next gen of awesome but resign to staying WOW bound and others spit fire when anyone mentions WOW as the old dog in the yard.

    My point is WOW is here to stay for sometime yet BUT new generations of mmo players have many enticing options now, for a while I see GW2 and WOW being like twin cities on the horizon. Which one will flourish? ... who really 'HONESTLY' knows?

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor Member RarePosts: 865
    Tyria wins.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • fahadjafarfahadjafar Member Posts: 44
    finally, an article that said panda came in warcraft before kung fu panda itself. the 1st time i saw kung fu panda i said : "chen stormstrout", so did all of my friends and my family who played warcraft 3. too many people come to play games these days without knowing about the game itself. but on to the topic, i will play MoP, it looks like very nice and neat and does not look like fable 2 at all. if i really wanted to play fable 2 mmo i would wait for lionhead and microsoft to make one and not buy gw2. it looks like wow is taking a new approach towards pvp with mop, i want to see what it brings. what i hate most about wow is the combat, jump like monkey and attack, jump like monkey and use skill, whoever has lower latency wins. if only they would change that.
  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Member UncommonPosts: 2,341

    lol, I could almost picture staff going, " we really want to stir this pot? Are we SURE?" with a few choice people going "DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!"


    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • stragen001stragen001 Member UncommonPosts: 1,720
    Originally posted by x5100
    Originally posted by gr0und3d

    One thing that I am curious about is GW2's staying power besides PvP.  Won't it get old playing for hours and hours and getting really cool stuff only to zone in and scale? 

    For example:

    1: "Hey buddy, thanks for coming to help!"

    2: "No problem I am a master at GW2!"

    1: "Wow!  Your +1000 Sword of Godkilling does the same damage as this bucket I picked up over there."

    Is that a legitimate concern in GW2?  I haven't played it yet.

    That's kinda what GW1 was like. You had a cheap weapon that has max stats (or perfect as we called it in game) and on the other hand a weapon that only has like a .05% chance of dropping would also have the same stats. It still sold for millions in game because it was like a status symbol even though it didn't do any extra damage or anything. Think of WoW where you would bust 1000s in gold just to get a better looking flying mount despite the fact that the cheap ugly starter windrider flew at the same speed. 


    I spent a whole metric buttload of gold on "The Yakslapper" in GW1 not just because it looked really cool, but because it has the most awesome name for a weapon ever!

    The problem with your argument is that there is no +1000 Sword of Godkilling, because once you get to 80 all weapons will have the same basic stats. You will be able to modify them to suit your build better by for instance doing more condition damage etc, but there wont be any UBER WTFPWN weapons.

    It wont be a case of Wow!  Your +1000 Sword of Godkilling does the same damage as this bucket I picked up over thereit will be more like Wow! that sword you have looks AMAZING, whats it called, where do I get one, what did you have to get it?

    The best looking gear will be from PvP and still the person coming in with their basic weapon will have the same stats as the person with the awesome looking sword, and have the same chance of winning the match to be able to obtain that awesome looking sword(dependant on skill), rather than just getting facerolled by someone that has been playing for longer and has therefore got better gear. 

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • stragen001stragen001 Member UncommonPosts: 1,720
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    lol, I could almost picture staff going, " we really want to stir this pot? Are we SURE?" with a few choice people going "DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!"


    Oh No You Di'int!

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • illyanaillyana Member UncommonPosts: 614

    Uh, hello?! Hey, I'm releasing too, like a week after Guild Wars 2. And I got mounted combat!

    - LOTRO Riders of Rohan

    Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    Kiss of death.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    Originally posted by mbladepl

    This is what I think


    You cant out Fantasy WoW.  Made me all misty eye'd .


    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • ZooceZooce Member Posts: 586

    @1:10 on that video ^ Thrall steals the show.

    After botching the longevity of D3 ActiBlizzard looks to the far east to salvage thier WoW legacy.  I'm not buying it, they lost me before Cata.  Kudos to Anet for their fiery passion fueling a step forward for the genre.  Wasn't a full stride, but it sure beats the stagnation and formulaic safety of those gear treadmills in recent years.  

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363

    It won't matter, GW2 is catering to a different CORE demographic, granted the will both have a TON of casuals, GW2 will be centered on WvWvW and Esports with no gear treadmill, while MOP will draw in the Raiders who will not play GW2 but still want some new feeling content to play. I have to say though, WOW doesn't have any new factor anymore and at best it can only hope to emulate any GW2 features it hopes to steal. Then we have the fact that GW2 is a newer game, that is just as big, with no monthly fee.


    I think most average WOW players will at least buy GW2 which is all GW2 needs them to do, whre as MOP has to be amazing to justify a montly sub with all these free mmorpgs and non free competitors like RIFT which BTW the RIFT MEGA EXPANSION is out this Fall so MOP really really better be amzaing because RIFT can and will take from the raider player core WOW has.


    I think GW2 will be fine with casuals, DAOC players, WAR players who all do not like the gear treadmill but love pvp. However the real battle in my mind will be between Raid friendly games, if RIFT delivers this Fall after MOP has already been out it could be troublesome for WOW, who will them be split between GW2 casuals and pvpers, and RIFT casuals and raiders.

  • eGumballeGumball Member Posts: 151
    Well, much can happen but one thing is for sure. There´s no game in the market that can really compete with these two anylonger, unless a miracle happens and Guild Wars 2 fails or Microsoft buys Blizzard and shout down WoW - Mists of Pandaria for their new : Pandarian Windows.
  • ComfyChairComfyChair Member Posts: 758

    I think, to get the whole picture of what really makes GW2 shine you have to consider a massive point: Most people don't do raids in WoW. If they don't do raids, they aren't doing 'end game', and since the 'end game' gear grind is the only thing some people prefer (based on their preferences) is better, it puts WoW in a real pickle. If most people only want to play the 1-80 content of a game, then, well, GW2 thrashes WoW absolutely hands down while it begs for it's mommy.


    Debate about the raiding versus PvP/Dungeon/Exploration end game as much as you want, most of the WoW players don't care about that, they care about the levelling experience, of which we know is a big problem for WoW compared to what we've seen of GW2.


    So, a better levelling experience with more variety, epic bosses, more exploration, a more 'alive' feel to world, less 'competition' for mobs, resources ect. and for no sub? Yeah, i think GW2 really threatens WoW more than we probably think here at MMORPG, as many are transfixed by the tiny proportion of the game that many people simply don't play. 


    Issues which would get in the way of GW2 stealing a massive amount of WoW players who are only after the levelling experience: The game will be too hard for the absolutely terrible players (going from clicking skills and clicking to move in WoW to WASD/Dodge/button usage for skills to remain competant in remotely challenging content in GW2 would be like going from riding a trike to piloting a harrier), and the game won't run on toasters.

  • TuchakaTuchaka Member UncommonPosts: 468
    if people like wow great but frankly no matter what wow does until the game goes bye bye, it's all the same thing over and over again, so for me it has nothing to offer, however Gw2  has done a better job than anyone ever has with public events ( dynamic events/renown hearts)   personally the gear treadmill is where dev's show they think you have no intelligence and you are just a hamster on a wheel. So to me there is only one choice, to move the genre forward and not stick with the same damn formula over and over again.
  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Member UncommonPosts: 1,379

    I think every expansion WoW releases, more and more people get bored faster and leave. I know I have been talked into coming back for each expansion by friends, and me and my wife both get bored sooner every expansion. GW2 has offered a lot of my friends and guildmates an alternative that was non existent the last couple of expansions and I know the core of our WoW guild will not be purchasing the next one. Now I know I don't speak for all but I can speak for about 10 of us and that is the general feeling regarding the new expansion. While a couple have some doubts about GW2's lack of raiding, we are all excited and happy with what the product has shown us on the BWE and can't wait to leave leave WoW with some fond memories and no more visits.


    I don't think GW2 is going to kill WoW in any way and honestly I don't want it to. I'd love for GW2 to wind up being more difficult than some would care for and even a game that some don't adjust to and go back to the game of their choice rather than sitting in GW2 and bitching to anyone that will listen how they think WoW is better because of reason A,B,C. If WoW goes away, a lot of unhappy fans will look for a new home and I shudder at the thought.

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • NanulakNanulak Member UncommonPosts: 372

    Well, GW2 will not be the end all for WOW or any other subscription based game.  But it is a sign of thigs to come.  Yes I will play GW2 and enjoy it until it runes its course as all games eventually do.  For me, I played WOW several times and it has already run its course.

    So the obvious choice for me is play GW2 now and see what is comming down the road.  What I am almose sure of, the down the road game will be more like GW2 than WOW.

    Good read, by the way.


  • NameWasTakenNameWasTaken Member Posts: 132

    The one thing that makes me devoted to GW2, and will NEVER return to WoW, is that GW2 is designed to help foster a courteous and helpful community.


    With the kill sharing game design of GW2, you won't have people going fricking apeshit, when they accuse you of kill stealing, after you help them out with a tough mob.


    WoW players suck!

  • Originally posted by P4YB4CK


    WoW will always stay on top because it's got the years under it's belt and it has staying power for it's subscriber base. The only thing that can topple WoW is WoW itself for now.

    Players are just giddy on the new mmo on the block called GW2 and still remains to be seen if it will stay popular as months go by or when the honeymoon comes to the end. Will ANET keep pumping out content for GW2 as fast a subscription MMO also still remains to be seen, however since it's B2P, players will just hop in and out of the game while they play their other favortire mmo.

    I will take advantage of the B2P method when I decide to play GW2, however I don't see me investing any money after I buy it since it has no subscription.

    GW2 has so much content at the right can relive old stories unlike WoW where the low levels become nothing after max level. How can you expect them to give more content when it's not necessary at all? :D

  • dndhatcherdndhatcher Member Posts: 7

    WoW: Pandamonium is going to be the Pokemon killer.



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