If thats how you look at it then WAR broke the Trinity first. Their "healing classes" would do damage and a % of their damage was returned to the team in healing. Unconventional healing and tanking are not new to MMOs. All 3 roles are in the game so the trinity is not dead. The roles are there, you cant deny it. I love GW2 and glad I wont be looking for group but yelling the trinity is dead is a lie. Its just dressed differently.
Really, then what dungeons were you able to clear w/ out a healer, tank, and dps?
Tell me the GW2 dungeon you can clear without someone healing, mitigating damage and DPSing? All three roles are in the game. Trinity is not dead.
I have the feeling this will fall on deaf ears but the Trinity combat model isn't just 3 roles, it's a tank, healer and dps. What clearly defines it is the tank with aggro taunt abilities and the hate mechanic built into the mob ai. GW2 is not the first game to use a dps team but it's definetely not trinity. It's much more unpridictable and immersive and works well in a different way. If you don't believe me at GW2 launch grab your group I would love to watch your tank chase that mob all over the place. It's not your fault really most of us are brainwashed with 90+% using trinity or else you're a dinosaur that won't let go. It's another flavor it's fun so enjoy!
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
You do realize that the video you just linked starts off by saying:
"I know everyone's been super excited about the death of the holy trinity, and while that's true, I wanted to remind people about the importance of support"
Call down a healing rain onto the target area, granting Regeneration to allies and removing conditions once every 3 seconds.
Skill One, Damage and support for allies close to the enemy.
Two - Damage and ... vulnerability, let's call that damage as well since it allows more damage to be done to the enemy.
Three - Definitely support, 20 second cooldown and a short range AoE affect.
Four - Pure, raw control.
Five - again support. 45 second cooldown, larger AoE effect.
Damage, control and support. All in one bundle. Yes, more weighted towards support than the others, however you are not a "healer". You're still doing it all, and if you're really into the swing of being an elementalist, you're also switching attunements into others that are more tilted in other aspects.
I'll say it again, because to me it's the only thing that makes sense in practice. There are no roles. You use the right skills at the right time depending on the situation during the fight. You can lean in one direction or the other, but it's all situational. You can't be a pure tank, a pure healer or even pure dps. The weapons alone don't allow that.
Thank you for the video, but I'm curious about a few things.
Have you tried PvE dungeon content this this build? Were you about to tank and spank everything, like with the sPvP boss at the beginning of this video? The reason I ask is mobs in dungeons do a LOT more damage than players, and live a lot longer. So I wonder if that would be effective there. My comments in this thread have been solely from a PvE perspective, and I wonder if yours are not solely from a PvP one. That changes things a bit.
It's also difficult to tell if you are THE dedicated healer...I can't see whether or not your teammates are flashing their heals, mitigation abilities, etc. I agree with some of the points you make in the video, but I think what's different is some of the people in here saying "the trinity is still here" are saying that you can tank mobs like in WoW and simply outheal the damage; that will not work.
Also, if your G build is that strong...I smell nerf incoming, no offense.
I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.
Last time I'll explain this lol
If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.
*sigh*
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
You still don't get it.
Every player can heal themselves and others, every player can mitigate damage, and every player can DPS - all with the same build and within the course of the same fight/encounter.
NO TRINITY.
Do you need a dedicated tank in GW2? No.
Do you need a dedicated support/healer? No.
Do you need dedicated DPS? Well, kind of, as stuff still needs to die and die well/often...
NO TRINITY.
lol I can't believe people still fight this?! What gives?
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
You do realize that the video you just linked starts off by saying:
"I know everyone's been super excited about the death of the holy trinity, and while that's true, I wanted to remind people about the importance of support"
What actually was said;
"...everyone was excited that the holy trinity was gone, it was dead. And while it is true there is no core dedicated healer, that being a healer is all that they can do, it's all their focuses... etc."
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
Mythical? Good lord......... the gap between the good players and the rose gogglers is so huge lol. One of the most straight forward and logical builds is mythical? Are you kidding me? How much denial are you in?
And yet you fail to provide an answer.
Here let me, this is my healing spec that has my guildies screaming for me to come do sPvP, WvW and dungeons with them.
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
I expected to see these diehard trinity groups at GW2 launch. Putting your tecnical expertise into tring to create a full blown healer and class to tank. Same with Vindictus 2 years in NA and I still here people calling the Fiona class a tank just because she weilds sword and board. And with Tera people are so use to expecting to get hit thinking "the math in my gear has block" they just stand and get pounded. Like this poster who won't let it go I expect it will take a a pounding before you get it. Let it go man!
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
You do realize that the video you just linked starts off by saying:
"I know everyone's been super excited about the death of the holy trinity, and while that's true, I wanted to remind people about the importance of support"
So? Then he goes on to say that speced healing his team win fights more often and even when they are outmatched. My guild has played a lot with classes and what roles they do best. Just like every other MMO GW2 will be played this way. You want to win WvW raids, you need X number of healing guardians, x number of sheild guardians, x number of Elementlist CCers, so on and so on. The trinity is not dead because all the roles are there and each class does something better. Sure no one will be the full time healer or tank. But when the poop hits the fan we are going to look to x,y,z classes to do what they do best so we can win. All 3 roles are in GW2 and the trinity is very much alive!!!
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
Mythical? Good lord......... the gap between the good players and the rose gogglers is so huge lol. One of the most straight forward and logical builds is mythical? Are you kidding me? How much denial are you in?
And yet you fail to provide an answer.
Here let me, this is my healing spec that has my guildies screaming for me to come do sPvP, WvW and dungeons with them.
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
I expected to see these diehard trinity groups at GW2 launch. Putting your tecnical expertise into tring to create a full blown healer and class to tank. Same with Vindictus 2 years in NA and I still here people calling the Fiona class a tank just because she weilds sword and board. And with Tera people are so use to expecting to get hit thinking "the math in my gear has block" they just stand and get pounded. Like this poster who won't let it go I expect it will take a a pounding before you get it. Let it go man!
What he's going to do is try to be a dedicated tank, and have someone else be a didcated healer, and someone else be a dedicated dps and then die in less than 3 seconds by a boss.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
You still don't get it.
Every player can heal themselves and others, every player can mitigate damage, and every player can DPS - all with the same build and within the course of the same fight/encounter.
NO TRINITY.
Do you need a dedicated tank in GW2? No.
Do you need a dedicated support/healer? No.
Do you need dedicated DPS? Well, kind of, as stuff still needs to die and die well/often...
NO TRINITY.
lol I can't believe people still fight this?! What gives?
No idea. I know i've seen a lot of people trying to distort this feature to imply that it's some kind of marketting hype, or something. I really don't understand that, because the lack of a trinity doesn't make GW2 intrinsicly better or worse than another other game. It's just another feature that people will either love or hate.
It's really quite a basic concept to understand.
HOLY TRINITY:
- 1 tank, healer, and dps is required in order to complete more challenging content
Now ask yourself. Is it required to have a tank, healer, and dps in GW2?
The answer is NO.
There's really nothing else to it. That alone, combined with the lack of rigid roles, spells the death of the holy trinity.
- Now you can argue that it has a different kind of trinity (damage, support, control). And that is a lot more acceptable. I would, however, argue that there is a 4th in the form of utility, but that's an entirely different discussion.
So? Then he goes on to say that speced healing his team win fights more often and even when they are outmatched. My guild has played a lot with classes and what roles they do best. Just like every other MMO GW2 will be played this way. You want to win WvW raids, you need X number of healing guardians, x number of sheild guardians, x number of Elementlist CCers, so on and so on. The trinity is not dead because all the roles are there and each class does something better. Sure no one will be the full time healer or tank. But when the poop hits the fan we are going to look to x,y,z classes to do what they do best so we can win. All 3 roles are in GW2 and the trinity is very much alive!!!
I am amused at the fact that you still believe that players, who only knew the trinity before now, won't in time learn more balanced builds, better synergies and develop better skills that will in the near future be more than capable of decimating teams that still try to pigeonhole themselves into an archaic style the game isn't meant to favor.
ArenaNet themselves have said that in the lower levels you can still play a trinity-like style, but you won't be successful once you start getting to the more challenging content. In other words, you can try to force roles, and will have a small degree of success early, but as the game progresses it will crush regressive playstyles. This will also hold true in PvP as players simply get better at being dynamic and using all the tools available to them.
The idea of individual characters being locked into one role all the time is dead. Whether you define THAT as the trinity, or something else, I think everyone agrees on that statement in cyan.
Btw to all you rose-tinted gogglers... games like WoW and EQ and such which had the "holy trinity" had every class doing more than 1 role (in competent level play) You were never just a healer that just used healing spells, you were never just a dpser that only used damage spells, you were never just a tank that just used tanking abilities. It is not about what you can get away with, cause you can do a lot of stuff that breaks the trinity in WoW, when content is easy, it is about what is most efficient, and in GW2 it is most efficient for example, for an elementalist to spec purely heal support, so that his groupmates can focus more on damage, and get tons of healing.
You have no idea what the holy trinity even means, do you.
I think it's more a case of people like you not really knowing what it is. You seem to subjectively define it and twist which degree of definition you want to use based on how it will help glorify gw2.
Tell me, on this mythical healing elementalist, what weapons were you using?
Mythical? Good lord......... the gap between the good players and the rose gogglers is so huge lol. One of the most straight forward and logical builds is mythical? Are you kidding me? How much denial are you in?
And yet you fail to provide an answer.
Here let me, this is my healing spec that has my guildies screaming for me to come do sPvP, WvW and dungeons with them.
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
I expected to see these diehard trinity groups at GW2 launch. Putting your tecnical expertise into tring to create a full blown healer and class to tank. Same with Vindictus 2 years in NA and I still here people calling the Fiona class a tank just because she weilds sword and board. And with Tera people are so use to expecting to get hit thinking "the math in my gear has block" they just stand and get pounded. Like this poster who won't let it go I expect it will take a a pounding before you get it. Let it go man!
What he's going to do is try to be a dedicated tank, and have someone else be a didcated healer, and someone else be a dedicated dps and then die in less than 3 seconds by a boss.
No I wont. I get how GW2 works. I have almost 200hr play time in it. If you read my posts you will see I know very well no one char will be the healer, tank or DPS. Im just saying all 3 roles are there. How is the trinity dead if its in the game. I also bring up the point that some classes do parts of the 3 roles better then other classes. If thats the case how is the trinity dead?
Here is the MAIN thing: Is it fun? I don't want hardcore raiding that takes weeks to fight a single boss. I want to hop on and have fun with people. Run around and have an adventure! Not sit around and find a group.
Here is the MAIN thing: Is it fun? I don't want hardcore raiding that takes weeks to fight a single boss. I want to hop on and have fun with people. Run around and have an adventure! Not sit around and find a group.
Hush. Stop all your talk of fun and enjoying things, we're talking about a game here! Only serious discussions on semantics that descend into 14 people saying the same thing, different ways, and yet still arguing with one another, is allowed.
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
You do realize that the video you just linked starts off by saying:
"I know everyone's been super excited about the death of the holy trinity, and while that's true, I wanted to remind people about the importance of support"
So? Then he goes on to say that speced healing his team win fights more often and even when they are outmatched. My guild has played a lot with classes and what roles they do best. Just like every other MMO GW2 will be played this way. You want to win WvW raids, you need X number of healing guardians, x number of sheild guardians, x number of Elementlist CCers, so on and so on. The trinity is not dead because all the roles are there and each class does something better. Sure no one will be the full time healer or tank. But when the poop hits the fan we are going to look to x,y,z classes to do what they do best so we can win. All 3 roles are in GW2 and the trinity is very much alive!!!
A trinity dinosaur = (if you would strike a dinosaur's foot with the size of a dino's brain given the distamce from foot to brain it would take eons for him to feel the pain) You'll get it someday.
No I wont. I get how GW2 works. I have almost 200hr play time in it. If you read my posts you will see I know very well no one char will be the healer, tank or DPS. Im just saying all 3 roles are there. How is the trinity dead if its in the game. I also bring up the point that some classes do parts of the 3 roles better then other classes. If thats the case how is the trinity dead?
At the most basic level, the trinity is dead for a couple reasons.
1. There is no tank. You cannot taunt a boss and hold its attention through all the damage it receives. You cannot absorb the damage it gives.
2. There are no healers. You cannot target an ally and cast heals on them that are greater than the incoming potential damage (see Tank above). You can only offer splash healing and buffs, not enough for someone attempting to tank to survive.
3. There are no pure anything. Every weapon has a mix of damage, control and support aspects across the skills. You need to know the skills and when to use them.
At this most basic level, the trinity is dead. Of course, it goes much deeper. There are no set roles in GW2 at all.
They love my Guardian healing. Its the topic of many threads and model for many WvW raid set up. It will come down in the end what classes do what best and top end guilds will be looking for people to fit x,y,z spec to file x,y,z roles to get the best results. Sure there are more options and things are dressed differently but in the end GW2 has roles and to be the best people will be pigeon holed into them. Welcome to MMOs where the trinity has never been removed!!!!
I expected to see these diehard trinity groups at GW2 launch. Putting your tecnical expertise into tring to create a full blown healer and class to tank. Same with Vindictus 2 years in NA and I still here people calling the Fiona class a tank just because she weilds sword and board. And with Tera people are so use to expecting to get hit thinking "the math in my gear has block" they just stand and get pounded. Like this poster who won't let it go I expect it will take a a pounding before you get it. Let it go man!
What he's going to do is try to be a dedicated tank, and have someone else be a didcated healer, and someone else be a dedicated dps and then die in less than 3 seconds by a boss.
No I wont. I get how GW2 works. I have almost 200hr play time in it. If you read my posts you will see I know very well no one char will be the healer, tank or DPS. Im just saying all 3 roles are there. How is the trinity dead if its in the game. I also bring up the point that some classes do parts of the 3 roles better then other classes. If thats the case how is the trinity dead?
Soooo....by your logic, the following are trinity games:
1. Marvel Vs. Capcom
2. Diablo
3. Doom
4. Halo
5. Warcraft 3
All of these games contain damage, healing, and damage mitigation. So by your definition, they are trinity games.
This is why your definition is ridiculous. It is so broad that it renders the term "trinity game" pointless. Almost ANY GAME where you kill things has damage, damage mitigation, and healing of some sort.
You do realize that the video you just linked starts off by saying:
"I know everyone's been super excited about the death of the holy trinity, and while that's true, I wanted to remind people about the importance of support"
So? Then he goes on to say that speced healing his team win fights more often and even when they are outmatched. My guild has played a lot with classes and what roles they do best. Just like every other MMO GW2 will be played this way. You want to win WvW raids, you need X number of healing guardians, x number of sheild guardians, x number of Elementlist CCers, so on and so on. The trinity is not dead because all the roles are there and each class does something better. Sure no one will be the full time healer or tank. But when the poop hits the fan we are going to look to x,y,z classes to do what they do best so we can win. All 3 roles are in GW2 and the trinity is very much alive!!!
What do you mean so?
He's the one who created the build, and he explicitly states it's not a dedicated healing build. It's a support build.
He even re-emphasizes this at the end by saying:
"Dedicated healers are gone, but support is going to win a lot of these games I think."
I think you're making way too many assumptions off of the ability to heal in the game. Now, I can't speak for your experiences during the beta weekend, but what I can do is point out some facts.
- The video linked shows the guardian playing in a coordinated guild group (on skype) zerging an uncoordinated pug. They dominated, because the pugs didn't really work the points much, and they got picked off most of the match 1 by 1. You will notice that when the guardian started to get focused on, even a little bit, he started losing a decent amount of health.
- The majority of his healing is actually applied to himself. The bulk of his group heals comes from virtues which heal those around him.
- While the amount of healing applied to nearby teamm8s is significant, it's also nothing that can't be dpsed through. His largest heal is ~1200 hp, every now and then. DPS classes can do ~10-13k dmg in a second. A properly specced conditions spec can also tic for more than 220 dmg a tic.
- This video was created to provide dedicated healers with a role that may more closely fit their playstyle. Not to show that there is a dedicated healer role in GW2.
I'm not saying it's not a good build, and I'm certainly not saying support isn't important in GW2, but linking the video isn't (in any way) proof that GW2 has a dedicated healing role. The creator of the video even states this.
I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.
Last time I'll explain this lol
If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.
*sigh*
Dedicated roles aside. The Trinity is defined as Tank/Healer/DPS.
Can everone Tank? Sure
Can everyone Heal? Sure
Can everyone DPS? Sure
Doesent mater if everyone can do ALL the rolls at any giving time. The fact remains there IS still a Trinity because there all present in GW2.
Comments
Sorry messed up the link, try here:
http://www.gw2builds.org/view/511159/hot_team_defence_mace_shield_spec_w_video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wsbavY2Q2M&feature=plcp
Um ofcourse you don't need a tank if the boss is locked in the center of the room.
I have the feeling this will fall on deaf ears but the Trinity combat model isn't just 3 roles, it's a tank, healer and dps. What clearly defines it is the tank with aggro taunt abilities and the hate mechanic built into the mob ai. GW2 is not the first game to use a dps team but it's definetely not trinity. It's much more unpridictable and immersive and works well in a different way. If you don't believe me at GW2 launch grab your group I would love to watch your tank chase that mob all over the place. It's not your fault really most of us are brainwashed with 90+% using trinity or else you're a dinosaur that won't let go. It's another flavor it's fun so enjoy!
You do realize that the video you just linked starts off by saying:
"I know everyone's been super excited about the death of the holy trinity, and while that's true, I wanted to remind people about the importance of support"
Hmm... couldn't get it to work, could be firewall issues here at work. Not sure.
I recall using a staff on an elementalist, however. If I'm not mistaken... well, let's look at the staff.
Staff —
Oderint, dum metuant.
Seems like a nice supportive build but far from a healing build, healing is just a small part of it.
Edit: this is in regards to nanfoodles guardian build
Thank you for the video, but I'm curious about a few things.
Have you tried PvE dungeon content this this build? Were you about to tank and spank everything, like with the sPvP boss at the beginning of this video? The reason I ask is mobs in dungeons do a LOT more damage than players, and live a lot longer. So I wonder if that would be effective there. My comments in this thread have been solely from a PvE perspective, and I wonder if yours are not solely from a PvP one. That changes things a bit.
It's also difficult to tell if you are THE dedicated healer...I can't see whether or not your teammates are flashing their heals, mitigation abilities, etc. I agree with some of the points you make in the video, but I think what's different is some of the people in here saying "the trinity is still here" are saying that you can tank mobs like in WoW and simply outheal the damage; that will not work.
Also, if your G build is that strong...I smell nerf incoming, no offense.
You still don't get it.
Every player can heal themselves and others, every player can mitigate damage, and every player can DPS - all with the same build and within the course of the same fight/encounter.
NO TRINITY.
Do you need a dedicated tank in GW2? No.
Do you need a dedicated support/healer? No.
Do you need dedicated DPS? Well, kind of, as stuff still needs to die and die well/often...
NO TRINITY.
lol I can't believe people still fight this?! What gives?
What actually was said;
"...everyone was excited that the holy trinity was gone, it was dead. And while it is true there is no core dedicated healer, that being a healer is all that they can do, it's all their focuses... etc."
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I expected to see these diehard trinity groups at GW2 launch. Putting your tecnical expertise into tring to create a full blown healer and class to tank. Same with Vindictus 2 years in NA and I still here people calling the Fiona class a tank just because she weilds sword and board. And with Tera people are so use to expecting to get hit thinking "the math in my gear has block" they just stand and get pounded. Like this poster who won't let it go I expect it will take a a pounding before you get it. Let it go man!
So? Then he goes on to say that speced healing his team win fights more often and even when they are outmatched. My guild has played a lot with classes and what roles they do best. Just like every other MMO GW2 will be played this way. You want to win WvW raids, you need X number of healing guardians, x number of sheild guardians, x number of Elementlist CCers, so on and so on. The trinity is not dead because all the roles are there and each class does something better. Sure no one will be the full time healer or tank. But when the poop hits the fan we are going to look to x,y,z classes to do what they do best so we can win. All 3 roles are in GW2 and the trinity is very much alive!!!
What he's going to do is try to be a dedicated tank, and have someone else be a didcated healer, and someone else be a dedicated dps and then die in less than 3 seconds by a boss.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
No idea. I know i've seen a lot of people trying to distort this feature to imply that it's some kind of marketting hype, or something. I really don't understand that, because the lack of a trinity doesn't make GW2 intrinsicly better or worse than another other game. It's just another feature that people will either love or hate.
It's really quite a basic concept to understand.
HOLY TRINITY:
- 1 tank, healer, and dps is required in order to complete more challenging content
Now ask yourself. Is it required to have a tank, healer, and dps in GW2?
The answer is NO.
There's really nothing else to it. That alone, combined with the lack of rigid roles, spells the death of the holy trinity.
- Now you can argue that it has a different kind of trinity (damage, support, control). And that is a lot more acceptable. I would, however, argue that there is a 4th in the form of utility, but that's an entirely different discussion.
I am amused at the fact that you still believe that players, who only knew the trinity before now, won't in time learn more balanced builds, better synergies and develop better skills that will in the near future be more than capable of decimating teams that still try to pigeonhole themselves into an archaic style the game isn't meant to favor.
ArenaNet themselves have said that in the lower levels you can still play a trinity-like style, but you won't be successful once you start getting to the more challenging content. In other words, you can try to force roles, and will have a small degree of success early, but as the game progresses it will crush regressive playstyles. This will also hold true in PvP as players simply get better at being dynamic and using all the tools available to them.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Sigh.
Tomato, tomato.
The idea of individual characters being locked into one role all the time is dead. Whether you define THAT as the trinity, or something else, I think everyone agrees on that statement in cyan.
No I wont. I get how GW2 works. I have almost 200hr play time in it. If you read my posts you will see I know very well no one char will be the healer, tank or DPS. Im just saying all 3 roles are there. How is the trinity dead if its in the game. I also bring up the point that some classes do parts of the 3 roles better then other classes. If thats the case how is the trinity dead?
Here is the MAIN thing: Is it fun? I don't want hardcore raiding that takes weeks to fight a single boss. I want to hop on and have fun with people. Run around and have an adventure! Not sit around and find a group.
Hush. Stop all your talk of fun and enjoying things, we're talking about a game here! Only serious discussions on semantics that descend into 14 people saying the same thing, different ways, and yet still arguing with one another, is allowed.
A trinity dinosaur = (if you would strike a dinosaur's foot with the size of a dino's brain given the distamce from foot to brain it would take eons for him to feel the pain) You'll get it someday.
At the most basic level, the trinity is dead for a couple reasons.
1. There is no tank. You cannot taunt a boss and hold its attention through all the damage it receives. You cannot absorb the damage it gives.
2. There are no healers. You cannot target an ally and cast heals on them that are greater than the incoming potential damage (see Tank above). You can only offer splash healing and buffs, not enough for someone attempting to tank to survive.
3. There are no pure anything. Every weapon has a mix of damage, control and support aspects across the skills. You need to know the skills and when to use them.
At this most basic level, the trinity is dead. Of course, it goes much deeper. There are no set roles in GW2 at all.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It's weird when there are 2 sides of an argument and both sides are correct but they are still arguing.
My theme song.
Soooo....by your logic, the following are trinity games:
1. Marvel Vs. Capcom
2. Diablo
3. Doom
4. Halo
5. Warcraft 3
All of these games contain damage, healing, and damage mitigation. So by your definition, they are trinity games.
This is why your definition is ridiculous. It is so broad that it renders the term "trinity game" pointless. Almost ANY GAME where you kill things has damage, damage mitigation, and healing of some sort.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
What do you mean so?
He's the one who created the build, and he explicitly states it's not a dedicated healing build. It's a support build.
He even re-emphasizes this at the end by saying:
"Dedicated healers are gone, but support is going to win a lot of these games I think."
I think you're making way too many assumptions off of the ability to heal in the game. Now, I can't speak for your experiences during the beta weekend, but what I can do is point out some facts.
- The video linked shows the guardian playing in a coordinated guild group (on skype) zerging an uncoordinated pug. They dominated, because the pugs didn't really work the points much, and they got picked off most of the match 1 by 1. You will notice that when the guardian started to get focused on, even a little bit, he started losing a decent amount of health.
- The majority of his healing is actually applied to himself. The bulk of his group heals comes from virtues which heal those around him.
- While the amount of healing applied to nearby teamm8s is significant, it's also nothing that can't be dpsed through. His largest heal is ~1200 hp, every now and then. DPS classes can do ~10-13k dmg in a second. A properly specced conditions spec can also tic for more than 220 dmg a tic.
- This video was created to provide dedicated healers with a role that may more closely fit their playstyle. Not to show that there is a dedicated healer role in GW2.
I'm not saying it's not a good build, and I'm certainly not saying support isn't important in GW2, but linking the video isn't (in any way) proof that GW2 has a dedicated healing role. The creator of the video even states this.
Dedicated roles aside. The Trinity is defined as Tank/Healer/DPS.
Can everone Tank? Sure
Can everyone Heal? Sure
Can everyone DPS? Sure
Doesent mater if everyone can do ALL the rolls at any giving time. The fact remains there IS still a Trinity because there all present in GW2.
What i learned from this thread is that Super Mario is a holy trinity game.
Mario can take hits, heal himself with mushrooms and dishout damage.
Cool.