Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Help me find some real positives about this game
everland
Member Posts: 71
At start I would like to say that my objective by making this topic is to learn positives about this game, dismiss any doubts I have and buy it. So I'll talk crap about it at start, only to be proved wrong (hopefully).
I read lot's of positives, but so far, nothing was really convincing.
I watched a movie where a very exited man talked about little things that make this game special. All the random stuff he pointed out like dog behavior, npc dialogues etc. didn't really look better or richer than in recent mmo's I played. He was so exited about stuff that is used in mmo's alot, that makes me wonder if he either didn't noticed it in his previous games, or haven't played anything at all before Guild Wars 2.
I didn't judge graphics, because most of the stuff on youtube is on low settings. I would like to know if this honestly feels like it was designed by artist, or by a developer, that just randomly places stuff on map.
Active combat - won't know if it's good until I'll play it. I don't care if it is mmorpgfps or turn based, as long as it is well made.
I also don't judge absence of trinity system, because I will not know if it was a good idea or not until I play it.
No monthly fee, also no impact on me, since I usually don't play more than few months, so paying 60$ at start, or 15$ for 4 months is the same for me.
When I watch gameplay movies it looks very smilar to Rift, which I played for a month. Most familiar for me are random events (like rifts opening, protecting towns and outposts, npc invasions), where suddenly all people around you form a party and cooperate to finish event. Calling it innovative and new is simply a lie, because it looks exactly like in Rift. Mechanics look the same. Can you also swap skill sets on the go like in Rift? I hear a lot about "new" features, that were in Rift. Even graphics look familiar. Is it really similar or am I wrong?
I also see many movies on youtube, where people are really desperate do defend this game. Like when someone talks how fluid and seamless the animations are, and the moment he says that, he gets glitched on a rock on the ground and gets epileptic seizure... I mean really, that much denial. What is really technically good in this game? I don't mean the subjective stuff, like if someone likes dog animations, or someone never played a game before, where there is stuff like cutting grass with sword, that I'm already used to.... Opinions from people that actually played other games would be most welcome.
Comments
With respect, I think based on your post, the best way for you to determine its worth is to actually play. I'm sorry you missed a chance to get a beta key; that would have helped you a bit.
Now, anyone who spends five minutes in here knows I'm a defender of the game; I'd like to think I'm usually pretty reasoned about it as well. Since you want street cred I'll make it simple. Name the MMO, odds are good i've played it. Meridian, EQ1+2, AO, AoC, CoH/V, WoW, A skillion f2p Asian titles, Aion, Champions..
Offhand, the only big titles past or present I was never in were Vanguard, Asheron's Call 1+2, and DAoC.
Now, a brief rundown of what I think is great about the game:
Best place to start is:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/22266-guild-wars-2-mass-info-for-the-uninitiated/
Lots of good info there. I'm not sure what videos you are referring to where people are contradicting themselves, so I cannot comment on that. I had no issues with performance with a 2nd gen i-5, 8 Gb ram, and 560ti with settings at max.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
The B2P thing isn't new, GW1 had player ranked with WoW for the longest time. Runescape has more players then WoW. They both are doing fin on their own models.
Usually when somone is playing A game they like for the first time they are like.. super happy?
To awnser your question thou the things I thought were positives in general and not compaired to another game is.
1.No KS'ing if you hit an enemy even 1 time you get full exp and quest credit for it.
2. Everyone looks different, defferent colors, heights, ect. The transmutation stones really help put diversity in the game.
3. Even when a zone is empty it doesn't feel empty. Because of dynamic events, wandering npcs, ect. You can stand in a area for 15 min just listening to all the npc's dialog and background noises.
4. Go your own way, wether its questing, crafting, pvp, or wvw. You can get max lvl without even changing styles. You can get to lvl 80 by crafting. You could be the chef Ramsey of gw2 lmfao.
5. Based for a broader odience. I hate that i'm doing this, but I have to. The graphics were made a little bit older so that it could run on a average pc. Other games lost a lot of members by making it resource heavy just to have 300+ page complaints on thier forums. The most frequent awnsere to this problem was pay 2,000USD for a 60USD game.
6. Might not be the best reason however, join multiple guilds without having a supreme ruler. Sometimes I felt when I was guilded I was just working for some guy that wouldn't help me if my life depended on it Guild Leader. However I made some good ifriends in the guild itself so I didn't want to leave.
These are just a few positives that I personaly have found.
In many or most ways that you've mentioned, GW2 isn't that different from most other MMOGs on the market. If you played Rift for a month and stopped, you'll probably do the same in GW2.
The excitement in many of the videos and reviews (which I share) isn't about the "skin" of GW2, but rather about the bone structure, which you may or may not consider to be "positive", depending on your playstyle.
1. GW2 offers no exclusive, significant (in power) rewards for endgame grinding. Why is this a positive for many people? Because it alters the fundamental concept of how the game is structured. Instead of being urged by game design to hurry to get to the end to start collecting the "I win" gear, there is simply no reason to hurry. The game design promotes a thorough exploration of the game at every level.
2. The lack of a true trinity and the existence of a truly diversified combat role system is more than just a skin-deep variation; it's part of the fundamental redesign of how players interact with the game and each other. Combined with the way grouping/questing happens informally (and in WvWvW, at each players option) and the lack of griefing/killstealing opportunity, there is no structured player caste system where players can be judged, pigeonholed and dismissed or excluded from participating in top-notch content; nor need they fear blundering in where they are not wanted. Generally speaking, the more the merrier in virtually every aspect of the game. This kind of inclusivity has to be either a core game design or it is wasted; if players can be excluded from gaining the same level of powerful gear because of a player caste judgement or lack of inclusion in a powerful guild, then it loses its appeal to those players because they feel slighted by the game design.
3. Because of the philosophy of "no power rewards" for end-game grinding, the development team at Anet has demonstrated that it indeed considers every level of the game the "end-game" by infusing all of it with deep content in the form of graphics, NPC behavior, stories, hidden surprises, various jumping puzzles, and other interesting treasures. Couple this with the "de-leveling" mechanic, where the highest level players can enter lowbie zones and still get rewards commensurate with their true level, there is no reason for live team to put on blinders and focus on generating more level 80 content for those that rush through to the top. This bodes well for the future of every zone regardles of its supposed level.
However, not everyone wants this kind of a game; they like being rewarded with exclusive, significant rewards for end-game grinding. Nothing wrong with that; there's plenty of games that offer it, and you might not see Anet's core game design philosophy here as positive at all. Nothing wrong with that, either.
But for a lot of us, especially causal players, it makes GW2 the greatest thing since sliced MMOG bread. Also, the WvWvW is pretty cool, too - and everyone gets to participate in that at any level. Pretty sweet! But, again, not necessarily a positive in the eyes of everyone.
Try it yourself - bottom line is that it's FUN.
Biggest plus for me is the amount of content - I haven't had this feeling of freedom since SWG.
Funny how progression has become about "endgame grinding" all of a sudden.
I doubt 1% of the entire MMO fanbase actually enjoys "grinding". NO one enjoys grinding.
If you take a traditional themepark MMO, like WoW or Rift - you'll basically have Diablo stretched very thin. As in, the power progression curve is very, very steep - but it's also there as a drive to move the player forward and keep him interested.
Now, the idea with GW2 is that people will love the content without this drive. That they will go through content for the sake of content alone.
The developers seem to think this is some kind of fantastic revolution - and that the steep curve in most MMOs are there simply to annoy people or squeeze more money out of them.
But that's not why power progression is popular - it's because people LOVE to have goals and something to look forward to. They're simply sick and tired of it being spread so damn thin. They're also sick and tired of the same old themepark model - that GW2 isn't really changing at heart. They're just minimising the power progression aspect.
GW2 doesn't seem to solve the problem - instead it cures the disease by killing the patient.
Oh, I think GW2 will be pretty cool in the short-term - but I'm FAR FAR FAR from convinced it will be a long-lasting experience for the majority of players.
The way to drive the genre forward is to provide a carrot that's NOT time-based, but skill-based. But, by doing that, you'll have to accept a smaller audience - because most people simply aren't interested in having to invest themselves or dedicate themselves to mastering a game. You need genuine enthusiasts or competitive people for that.
That's why I think another way to drive the genre forward is through player-created content and much more meaningful ways of sustaining long-term play. The most meaningful interaction or gameplay is when it involves other players - and we need to move away from this static developer-driven quest (or event) structure - and let players modify and change the world, and hand out quests. We need to expand crafting and other avenues of progression so they're also skill-based and as challenging as combat.
GW2 is a very streamlined and simplified casual/group friendly game - but it's MOST DEFINITELY not the only way around the grind. In fact, I think it's a horrible way to avoid the grind.
By taking gear out of the equation - they're simply removing one of the most popular excuses made by bad players for why they're losing. Most gear-driven games are skill-driven - just as long as you spend some time getting the gear.
But there will always be players who're the best players, and people aren't just going to be super happy because they don't have to grind gear. Losing will still suck - and now they have to come up with another excuse.
I will agree with you that players love progression, and a sense of accoplishment. I will also suggest that traditional endgame MMOs like WoW actually kill that for players in a number of ways.
1) Level caps/stat bloat: Every new expansion in WoW ups the level cap. With it, the numbers all increase, new mechanics become available for players, etc. because of that, all content below the new cap becomes trivial. Did you spend a week trying to kill Sindragosa on hard mode? Congrats, all that effort is worth nothing now because you can roll in with half the players and kill her in half the time.
2) Gear teadmill: You spent WEEKS farming shards for that legendary. You incorporated your entire guild in your quest to get that super, awesome, oh my god cool item,,,wait? New expansion? Oh yeh, that thing's useless now. Put it in the bank. We won't even let you transmute something else to look like it. Your great accomplishment? Meaningless in the face of new content.
With GW2, this will be less of a problem. Lower level zones will still provide meaningful content. You can go back to old dungeons, fight old bosses, 20 levels later. And still be challenged. There's an AA in the form of earning additional skill points, and unlocking legendary weapons/skins. That you will be able to transmute. Are you proud that you were one of the few people to get the unicorn fart bow? You can show it off forever. And your top level gear? Will take a lot longer to become meaningless, thanks to the more gradual stat climb in gear.
I won't argue that GW2 has a lot to offer casual players; but I think that they've eliminated some of the things that I hated about the traditional grind.
Well, we'll see how it all works out.
But I don't see any way around the problem with exhausting content. Players exhaust content at an ABSURD rate. We're talking hundreds or thousands of times faster than it takes to create content. So, content will ALWAYS be exhausted.
Yeah, GW2 is a big game - but it's not unlike other big games. In 3-6 months - the content will be totally exhausted by all but the slowest players.
By then, they will need something to sustain interest - or players will not be buying things in their crappy item shop - and the game will be all but dead until the first expansion.
That's not how you provide a long-term experience. You can't expect players to sustain themselves by re-visiting old content over and over - simply because you scale it. The game needs to EVOLVE.
You need something more for the players to stay interested and keeping the community alive.
Gear skins? That's not good enough is it? Who would want to stay for months just to get a superficial upgrade? I just can't see it.
Oh, the grind is horrible - and we don't want that either.
Nah, we need player-driven content under a reasonable and strong design and clever system limitations. But almost no game has managed to do that correclty. EVE Online is perhaps the only one with a truly significant player-driven aspect like this, that's arguably a big success.
.
Ther reason I mention this particularly is that a) you asked specifically and b) playing this last beta weekend this was one of the things that left me speachless. Game is a labour of love.
.
I am a new game sceptic but little by little over 3 beta weekends I am a complete convert. Excuse the wierd formatting forums aren't iPad friendly
While I like player-driven content...I don't see the design of this game ever allowing for that.
As to content...Anet has proven they can build large, zone sweeping events in a matter of weeks. Thye've been quoted in interviews saying they can build and drop new DEs in less than a day. It's not impossible for them to keep dlivering new content in existing zones. I do agree with you that a player could possibly blow through all current content in 6 months with 1-2 toons, but who's to say they won't have significant additional content ready by then? Heck even ToR and Tera have put decent content patches out in that time.
So you've done some research but don't like the game? Don't buy it. Move on.
Anyone who has this much trouble deciding how to spend $60 should save their money.
The amount of time an event takes is directly related to how interesting and unique it is. If they can make an event in a few weeks, then it will be as interesting as what you can make in that time.
Do you really think that these events will be so different and unique, that people will stick around for a new one every few weeks or months?
They're deliberately avoiding the carrot - and they're clearly hoping for the instanced World vs World to sustain people for a long time. I can't see it, personally, at least not for the larger audience.
Oh, I'm sure the game will be very profitable. I mean, they're bound to sell a few million boxes - but there's nothing to indicate that it will be the next big thing that people are hoping it will be.
Well, I simply don't see it happening. I actually REALLY hope I'm wrong - because I'd love the next big thing as much as anyone.
This is what I see so far...
the best/most well balanced consentual PvP system on an MMO since Dark Age of Camelot...ON PAPER (still not as good as DAoC yet though, needs a few more things, but its a start)
and the quests are really well hidden/doesn't much feel like grinding. The world actually kind of feels alive, which is more than can be said for most MMOs of the last 8 years.
Also, the platforming is fun.
That's about all I have to say. Might be the first MMO I buy since 2007, but I'll probably wait a few months after launch.
Okay you and i seem so much a like, you siad that you saw videos so accutly you haven't played the game will let me tell you i saw videos too and i said what a lame boaring game,but then i tried to play a single beta i borrowed the game from my friend and i was like
what a great game and i pre-ordered it at once and now a waiting to play it.
So long story short, you don't realy like the game am sure one of your firends does if you know anyone who bought (or will buy) it aks him/her if you can try it.
That way its a win/win situation.
I would disagree with your first point about time=interesting, but the rest I can understand. To be honest, my biggest fear with the game is that I will eventually run out of interesting content.
My only solace in that is let's say I do...I paid 60 bucks for 3-6 months of gameplay. Not 50, and another 15 a month for 3-6 months. To me, worst case scenario, I'll have got my money's worth, and I can pick the game up sometime later when they add more stuff if it comes to that. Granted, not the most glowing endorsement in the world, but it IS a worst case scenario
GW2 is a very streamlined and simplified casual/group friendly game - but it's MOST DEFINITELY not the only way around the grind. In fact, I think it's a horrible way to avoid the grind.
No, it's not, but it is part of larger game-design philosophy that Anet made clear in its manifesto.
The way to drive the genre forward is to provide a carrot that's NOT time-based, but skill-based.
I tend to look at the development of the MMOG genre as one more in need of diversification. I don't think there is any true "forward" direction. At the end of the day, skill generallly boils down to mostly time - the time it takes to learn various aspects of the game, including what the other classes/combinations can do, to figure out and organize strategy, and the time it takes to practice it. That's still essentially time spent in the game, whether it is grinding superior gear or grinding superior knowledge and skill (along with better keybindings, keyboard/mouse coordination, twitch,etc.).
And that's certainly a way to go, the e-sport advancement way. MMOGs are developing just that kind of skill, MOBA based content. That doesn't mean there arent other ways to diversify the genre, including games that do not require that level of dedication to fullly experience all the significant content the game has to offer. IMO, GW2 is the first MMOG to fully commit to what I call the casual player; not just toss them some bones and scraps, but actually commit the basic design of the game to their playstyle, while throwing cosmetic scraps to the more hardcore players. I consider that a valid diversification of the MMOG market, and we'll see how profitable/popular that decision will be for Anet.
But there will always be players who're the best players, and people aren't just going to be super happy because they don't have to grind gear. Losing will still suck - and now they have to come up with another excuse.
This is where you and I differ in our assessment about the potential MMOG market. There are many, many people whose idea of a fun game isn't one that is necessarily competitive, but rather cooperative, and it's more about spending time with friends and family doing something cool than it is about claiming a victory against someone else.
Does anybody notice mainly with GW 2 people who say it's exactly like another game, they start off by listing the features that make the two games different from each other and then end with calling it the same?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Ever notice the non-GW2 people that list 25 reasons why the game is horrible, and every one of them applies to their chosen game as well? :P
Sorry, had to take that shot. There's a note of truth in what each of us say though.
In all honesty, there is probably nothing about GW2 that is 100% unique, excepting possibly the lack of "hard" roles (Yes,TSW has those, they just don't have classes), and the "weapons determining skills". What they've done is taken things they as a development team liked about past games, tweaked them a little, and released them as improvements. Which is what every MMO since the second one made has done. And that's cool. If I enjoy gameplay it doesn't have to be 100% original. Also, nothing's original.
What you have to understand is that for them, those things are pretty much the same as any other game, because they make zero difference to their playstyle and the way they play MMOGs. For me, those things are revolutionary because they directly address my playstyle in a way that no other MMOG to date has.
I'm all for people praising GW2, it's a well made MMO. But there is just about nothing in it that's revolutionary, as almost all of its ideas have been done before in other games, usually in a better capacity.
I think the only thing they can claim that makes them TRULY stand out on an individual level, is the dynamic events, which are better made versions of WAR's public quests, which are just tweaked versions of the events in TR, UO, and AC...
Seems you have not seen this video yet. You will NOT be done with content as soon as you think,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIExN1GZK_Q
Skip past the first 35 secs to get rid of the echo.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
Okay, he didn't get suck on a rock. If you'd watched the video you'd notice that the character is bending knee to the slight elevation difference and making a completely different stance than that of standing of flat ground. This is being done without need of a /kneel or whatever emote. It's natural, something a person would do in real life but it's not in many other games at all (please, list a game that it's in if there are any).
As for the Dynamic Events, they're nothing like Rift's invasions. Rift's invasions are straight forward randomly generated (even dev's have said so) drops of mobs into a world that continue to flow out until players stop it. Now, here's Guild Wars 2 Dynamic Events: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes&feature=plcp Please, watch the WHOLE video. You'll notice that these are nothing like Rift and that NPCs play a penicle part in how each event makes it's own story arch in the world.
Graphics wise, did you see THIS video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbWn6740JOg ?? First off, watch in HD 1080p. First graphically niceity is at 00:30 which shows off the very beautiful water reflection. Then, watch the rest and be amazed.
As for Active Combat, here's yet ANOTHER Youtube Video by a different user: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgfVZZkgsZI . Watch it, it's great.
So far your negative additude just screams lemons to this game, but I hope by providing this information it'll better inform you and maybe you'll change your mind. Though, honestly you should have tried playing the game yourself instead of trying to have others form an opinion for you. Humans are individuals, not a hive mind.
Why don't you read the stickie that have every piece of information about the game?
Then you can deside for yourself.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/337506/Guild-Wars-2-Mass-info-for-the-uninitiated.html
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I'm sure they'll create more and better dynamic events over the time, some with world bosses, maybe some even rotating with previous existent ones.
The rate at which they'll do that? Unknown, but if it's a rate similar to Trion' Rift one then we may expect lots of new content for the year to come.
I know, Rift was a somewhat small game (and the continent land area still is until the expansion) and probably easier to improve in that sense, but I'm hoping ANet is on a similar level when it comes to improve the game.
From your perspective, i'm sure this is true. From my perspective, it's truly revolutionary - not because of the graphics, or the specific combat dynamics, or the dynamic events, or the informal grouping, or the WvWvW, or the lack of a trinity, but because of something you really can't see on the surface. You have to look at the total structure, the fundamental design to see how it is deeply different than any other MMOG. Like I said, it is the first (to my knowledge) MMORPG that fully commits its core design to the casual player, and doesn't just toss scraps to us and expect us to find ways on our own to enjoy a game structured around a different playstyle.
Instead of those things being "thrown in" to dress up a game that is still fundamentally committed to the hardcore/uberguild customer base, in GW2 those things are the product (even if not completely original) of a core design philosophy, and therein lies the GW2 revolution, as their ad says, even if many players cannot see it because it means nothing to their particluar playstyle.