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swtor beyond saving...

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  • MeridionMeridion Member UncommonPosts: 1,495
    Originally posted by Esquire1980
    Originally posted by Meridion

    Of course it will be around for a long time to come...

    Vanguard: Saga of Heroes has been around for years now with less than a skeleton player base. Bandwidth and server maintenance are cheap, just reduce the staff for a game to a bunch of guys and even 500 subs are profitable. Let alone free to play, which yields even more revenue by selling a variety of "stuff" (hats, armor, dresses, mounts...)...

    Nowadays, there are tons and tons of low quality, near-dead, ripoff games just floating about. Some douche WILL play it for sure.

    So the question you really wanna ask is: As a grown-up, experienced and demanding gamer, do you want to keep playing THIS title or is it best to just switch teams...

    The answer for SWTOR should be fairly easy...

    M

    The problem with this is the same problem that was with SWG.  It was estimated, at the time SOE announced the closure, that SWG subs were somewhere around the 30K mark, SOE had announced that the sub count was actualy going up, and they still shut it down.  It is the same exact SOE that you state as having Vanguard up and running with that skeleton crew that shut SWG down.

    It was that reported 1 mil per/year that had to go to LA.  Even tho BioWare seemed a bit smarter and negoiated a 35% to LA, there still is a large cut off the top to LA that these other limping along games just do not have to pay.

    However, it was the LA/SOE contract completion date that had to get close to shut SWG down (altho they did shut SWG down a little before the exact date) and I would imagine that whatever completion date is included will be just as important in the shut down of TOR as well.  So, I would believe the people that want this type of game still have a few years, anyway.

    When I played SWG in 2006, the NGE was already in place and the server I played on seemed deserted. And back then, people were calling doom and gloom...

    It lasted SIX more years till it shut down due to a competitor.

    So yea, I expect TOR to be around for many years, under the radar, like Vanguard, like Age of Conan, like Warhammer Online... those games are up and running with absolutely no buzz to them left... and only handfuls of players left...

    M

     

     

  • ianicusianicus Member UncommonPosts: 665

    God these are such boring arguments, the internet, home to every armchair developer and thier dog. Do any MMO's released these days have long term retention? no, none of them, not a single one, are they all "broken themeparks" as people like to say? yes pretty much. I for one just play them for what they are they stop when im bored. whats bad about that? Most of people on this website are waiting for the second coming of the MMO christ, I say, you'll be waiting a while...

    "Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
  • BullseyeArc1BullseyeArc1 Member UncommonPosts: 410
    Originally posted by Meridion

    Of course it will be around for a long time to come...

    Vanguard: Saga of Heroes has been around for years now with less than a skeleton player base. Bandwidth and server maintenance are cheap, just reduce the staff for a game to a bunch of guys and even 500 subs are profitable. Let alone free to play, which yields even more revenue by selling a variety of "stuff" (hats, armor, dresses, mounts...)...

    Nowadays, there are tons and tons of low quality, near-dead, ripoff games just floating about. Some douche WILL play it for sure.

    So the question you really wanna ask is: As a grown-up, experienced and demanding gamer, do you want to keep playing THIS title or is it best to just switch teams...

    The answer for SWTOR should be fairly easy...

    M

    LA you forgot they have to pay LA millions per year just for the Star Wars name.     They expected a WOW killer and I bet the negotiations went along those lines.     Like Good Fellas LA is going to say, "You having a bad day EA, [email protected]$% you pay me."

  • ignore_meignore_me Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,987
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

     

    http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/star-wars-the-old-republic-fake-trailer

     

    Thank you. I spewed coffee at my dog on accident when he talked about the tree. ROFL 

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403
    Originally posted by Isturi

    Did not Realize TOR needed Saving? Dose the OP have inside info?

    His clock is running slow.  Roughly eight months.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • hikaru77hikaru77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,123
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Yup.  The #2 subscription-based MMO in the world, which has not even launched in Asia... is beyond saving.  It makes sense.

    only #2 because Lineage and Aion both went free to play...

    Both of which had far more subs than TOR before they went F2P

    No, you should compared NA and EU subs and NOT Subs from the asian market when swtor is not even there. But all i gonna say is this http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.38 Mill of copies in 6 months, but is even more than that, because that number do not include Digital sales from origin, GW2 is not even close yet to the copies that swtor sold at launch, and we are 1 month away from release and people here keep talking about how swtor need to be saved.  And maybe im wrong but we saw a video in the last E3 talking about some of the new content coming this year. Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

  • ClawzonClawzon Member UncommonPosts: 188
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

     

    http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/star-wars-the-old-republic-fake-trailer

     

    Haha, Epic!

     

     

    :)

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Yup.  The #2 subscription-based MMO in the world, which has not even launched in Asia... is beyond saving.  It makes sense.

    only #2 because Lineage and Aion both went free to play...

    Both of which had far more subs than TOR before they went F2P

    No, you should compared NA and EU subs and NOT Subs from the asian market when swtor is not even there. But all i gonna say is this http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.38 Mill of copies in 6 months, but is even more than that, because that number do not include Digital sales from origin, GW2 is not even close yet to the copies that swtor sold at launch, and we are 1 month away from release and people here keep talking about how swtor need to be saved.  And maybe im wrong but we saw a video in the last E3 talking about some of the new content coming this year. Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

    http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/pre-order-figures-slip/

    Now  you can find the official source for that if you want but it is official, GW2 has already sold 1 million copies. That means to match SWTOR they have to sell, 1.3 million. .. in six months, I doubt that will be a problem considering they sold almost half that in pre orders in about 3 months.

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,326
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

     Easy, because they pumped so much money into the game that BW said they weren't aiming at being a distant second behind the most played MMO. So they've failed to deliver. Simple as 1, 2, 3.

    imageimage
  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Yup.  The #2 subscription-based MMO in the world, which has not even launched in Asia... is beyond saving.  It makes sense.

    only #2 because Lineage and Aion both went free to play...

    Both of which had far more subs than TOR before they went F2P

    No, you should compared NA and EU subs and NOT Subs from the asian market when swtor is not even there. But all i gonna say is this http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.38 Mill of copies in 6 months, but is even more than that, because that number do not include Digital sales from origin, GW2 is not even close yet to the copies that swtor sold at launch, and we are 1 month away from release and people here keep talking about how swtor need to be saved.  And maybe im wrong but we saw a video in the last E3 talking about some of the new content coming this year. Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

    It sold 2 mill at launch. If it was not a fail it should have sold way more than 2.38 in 6 months, and servers should not be "merging" just yet. All 200 servers within the first month were virtually heavy, but now they are not, and have only about 10% left. Where did all the people go? Not in SWTOR! And the subs are STILL declining, and people do not seem to be biting to the free trial to level 15, as most people who were interested in it have bought it, played it,  and quit. WOW built its population from people enticing others to the game, SWTOR does not have that, and there is loads of negativity against the game about the internet, and not just here.

    I bet GW2 will sell more than 2.38 mill in 6 months, but it is not surprising that MMOs do not reach the sales of SWTOR now, as after the mass exodus of SWTOR  people will buy into new MMOs more sensibly now - wait to see what others say before buying. I have no intention in buying/playing GW2 myself

     

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Member Posts: 363
  • ChingoChingo Member UncommonPosts: 128
    Originally posted by joocheese

    [chomp] I have many friends who enjoy playing SWTOR, for their sake, I hope SWTOR can be saved so they can continue to enjoy playing their game; however much I may dislike it.

    Also, I would never wish anyone to lose their job,

    [chomp]

    I support this. I don't enjoy the IPR (probably due to the stupid movies - haven't read the books unfortunately) and don't like the game but I'm hoping that (the productive) people will keep their jobs and those people who enjoy the game will be able to enjoy it. What I don't understand is people whishing a game (and the company and jobs associated with it) to go away just because they personally do not it.

    Rod knows I've seen enough friends losing their jobs recently in the SW business to ignore this side of the coin.

     

  • hikaru77hikaru77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,123
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

     Easy, because they pumped so much money into the game that BW said they weren't aiming at being a distant second behind the most played MMO. So they've failed to deliver. Simple as 1, 2, 3.

    I remember WoW making 10 Mill of subs in 6 months, and maybe im wrong but didnt say EA and BW that the game will be rentable with just 500k subs?, but clearly you know more than EA/LA and BW how to make profitable games.  

  • hikaru77hikaru77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,123
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Yup.  The #2 subscription-based MMO in the world, which has not even launched in Asia... is beyond saving.  It makes sense.

    only #2 because Lineage and Aion both went free to play...

    Both of which had far more subs than TOR before they went F2P

    No, you should compared NA and EU subs and NOT Subs from the asian market when swtor is not even there. But all i gonna say is this http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.38 Mill of copies in 6 months, but is even more than that, because that number do not include Digital sales from origin, GW2 is not even close yet to the copies that swtor sold at launch, and we are 1 month away from release and people here keep talking about how swtor need to be saved.  And maybe im wrong but we saw a video in the last E3 talking about some of the new content coming this year. Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

    It sold 2 mill at launch. If it was not a fail it should have sold way more than 2.38 in 6 months, and servers should not be "merging" just yet. All 200 servers within the first month were virtually heavy, but now they are not, and have only about 10% left. Where did all the people go? Not in SWTOR! And the subs are STILL declining, and people do not seem to be biting to the free trial to level 15, as most people who were interested in it have bought it, played it,  and quit. WOW built its population from people enticing others to the game, SWTOR does not have that, and there is loads of negativity against the game about the internet, and not just here.

    I bet GW2 will sell more than 2.38 mill in 6 months, but it is not surprising that MMOs do not reach the sales of SWTOR now, as after the mass exodus of SWTOR  people will buy into new MMOs more sensibly now - wait to see what others say before buying. I have no intention in buying/playing GW2 myself

     

    GW2 is B2P, wich mean, you should make a comparision with B2P games, lik BF3, D3 etc. Games without a sub sell more than MMOs with one, WoW is an exepcion still i dont know about what mass exodus are you talking about, you should talk with the people who is actually playing the game, sure people quit swtor everyday but at the same time they are getting new players everyday. However we will see the truth state and future of the game by the end of the year, they have 2 more content updates and a level cap expansion who will bring a lot of people back to the game, and im not even talking about the ¨space combat secret proyect¨. 

  • KarteliKarteli Member CommonPosts: 2,646
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

     Easy, because they pumped so much money into the game that BW said they weren't aiming at being a distant second behind the most played MMO. So they've failed to deliver. Simple as 1, 2, 3.

    I remember WoW making 10 Mill of subs in 6 months, and maybe im wrong but didnt say EA and BW that the game will be rentable with just 500k subs?, but clearly you know more than EA/LA and BW how to make profitable games.  

    Yeah you are wrong, it took a couple years for WoW to reach 10 Mil, but they did so only because of Chinese accounts.  WoW never reached 10 mil or even close to that with the English / European game build alone.

     

     

    As to the 500k subs for SWTOR, that is to just barely be profitable, just at the breaking point.  I'm sure that 500k was intended to last 10 years (the duration EA this game would be around for, and then some) to pay off their debt, not less than a year.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • KarteliKarteli Member CommonPosts: 2,646
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

     

    http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/star-wars-the-old-republic-fake-trailer

     

    This video made my day complete!  I needed a good laugh ..

     

    Epic with a touch of honesty!  Kudos!

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • TrionicusTrionicus Member UncommonPosts: 498
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

     http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/star-wars-the-old-republic-fake-trailer 

     

    This is beautiful
  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Yup.  The #2 subscription-based MMO in the world, which has not even launched in Asia... is beyond saving.  It makes sense.

    only #2 because Lineage and Aion both went free to play...

    Both of which had far more subs than TOR before they went F2P

    No, you should compared NA and EU subs and NOT Subs from the asian market when swtor is not even there. But all i gonna say is this http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.38 Mill of copies in 6 months, but is even more than that, because that number do not include Digital sales from origin, GW2 is not even close yet to the copies that swtor sold at launch, and we are 1 month away from release and people here keep talking about how swtor need to be saved.  And maybe im wrong but we saw a video in the last E3 talking about some of the new content coming this year. Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

    It sold 2 mill at launch. If it was not a fail it should have sold way more than 2.38 in 6 months, and servers should not be "merging" just yet. All 200 servers within the first month were virtually heavy, but now they are not, and have only about 10% left. Where did all the people go? Not in SWTOR! And the subs are STILL declining, and people do not seem to be biting to the free trial to level 15, as most people who were interested in it have bought it, played it,  and quit. WOW built its population from people enticing others to the game, SWTOR does not have that, and there is loads of negativity against the game about the internet, and not just here.

    I bet GW2 will sell more than 2.38 mill in 6 months, but it is not surprising that MMOs do not reach the sales of SWTOR now, as after the mass exodus of SWTOR  people will buy into new MMOs more sensibly now - wait to see what others say before buying. I have no intention in buying/playing GW2 myself

     

    GW2 is B2P, wich mean, you should make a comparision with B2P games, lik BF3, D3 etc. Games without a sub sell more than MMOs with one, WoW is an exepcion still i dont know about what mass exodus are you talking about, you should talk with the people who is actually playing the game, sure people quit swtor everyday but at the same time they are getting new players everyday. However we will see the truth state and future of the game by the end of the year, they have 2 more content updates and a level cap expansion who will bring a lot of people back to the game, and im not even talking about the ¨space combat secret proyect¨. 

    If they were getting new players everyday to replace players quitting then there would be no free transfers, with 90% servers pending closure later in the summer. That is the Mass Exodus.

    There are usually no other players to talk to in game on Dxun Battle Circle or Rubat Crystal, I am the only one left!

  • TrionicusTrionicus Member UncommonPosts: 498
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Yup.  The #2 subscription-based MMO in the world, which has not even launched in Asia... is beyond saving.  It makes sense.

    only #2 because Lineage and Aion both went free to play...

    Both of which had far more subs than TOR before they went F2P

    No, you should compared NA and EU subs and NOT Subs from the asian market when swtor is not even there. But all i gonna say is this http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.38 Mill of copies in 6 months, but is even more than that, because that number do not include Digital sales from origin, GW2 is not even close yet to the copies that swtor sold at launch, and we are 1 month away from release and people here keep talking about how swtor need to be saved.  And maybe im wrong but we saw a video in the last E3 talking about some of the new content coming this year. Can someone here explain to me how the most populated and played P2P MMO in the market but WoW in the west is a fail? im pretty sure this question wont be answered

    It sold 2 mill at launch. If it was not a fail it should have sold way more than 2.38 in 6 months, and servers should not be "merging" just yet. All 200 servers within the first month were virtually heavy, but now they are not, and have only about 10% left. Where did all the people go? Not in SWTOR! And the subs are STILL declining, and people do not seem to be biting to the free trial to level 15, as most people who were interested in it have bought it, played it,  and quit. WOW built its population from people enticing others to the game, SWTOR does not have that, and there is loads of negativity against the game about the internet, and not just here.

    I bet GW2 will sell more than 2.38 mill in 6 months, but it is not surprising that MMOs do not reach the sales of SWTOR now, as after the mass exodus of SWTOR  people will buy into new MMOs more sensibly now - wait to see what others say before buying. I have no intention in buying/playing GW2 myself

     

    GW2 is B2P, wich mean, you should make a comparision with B2P games, lik BF3, D3 etc. Games without a sub sell more than MMOs with one, WoW is an exepcion still i dont know about what mass exodus are you talking about, you should talk with the people who is actually playing the game, sure people quit swtor everyday but at the same time they are getting new players everyday. However we will see the truth state and future of the game by the end of the year, they have 2 more content updates and a level cap expansion who will bring a lot of people back to the game, and im not even talking about the ¨space combat secret proyect¨. 

     

    It probably is going to be a "proyect", with half their team gone n all. That said, I do like star wars in general, so if there is a dev miracle to be had then we can all hope.
  • CastillleCastillle Member UncommonPosts: 2,679

    SWTOR was pretty fun as a single player or co op game.  I played with my friend from like...10 - 50 ( smuggler and jedi dont have the same noobplanet)

    What I didnt like about it was that the group content werent really that fun....Esseles was amazing with the cutscenes and decisions in the dungeon (KILL THE ENGINEERS!!!!) and things like that but after that, you never had a similar flashpoint.  It all randomly just became generic style dungeons instead of what Esseles was.  And that was kind of really disappointing. 

    The crew skill clickables in flashpoints were pretty awesome though!

    Im eating vanilla ice cream because my airconditioner isnt working -.-

    Edit : I dont think they were fired as well.  Their contract prolly just ran out and EA didnt bother renewing them.

    ''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
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  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
    Originally posted by Garvon3

    What a lot of people cannot seem to understand is that the entire design, from top to bottom, is broken. There is nothing that will "save" this game except a total rewrite.

    A singleplayer game cannot sustain a subscription. Devs cannot churn out meaningful story fast enough to keep people playing. It simply doesn't work.

    The game is done. Making it FTP, and breaking it into micropayment storylines is the only viable future because its really not an MMO.

    I agree here fully.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

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