It's been a while since I played an MMO that was this grindy before level 10. I need levels before I can see more of the world / experience more of the personal storyline, and the only way to do that is to grind. Either I run around for events I've probably already done before, or I try to fill karma hearts with tedious "collect ten apples" chores.
I was so desperate for XP that I started doing the daily achievements...find ten different mobs to kill, gather 10 resources. Big disappointment.
Grumpy, my level 9 mesmer is in an area filled with level 20s.
I killed zero creatures except the tutorial ones, all 9 levels were accomplished with exploration and gathering crafting materials.
The game as alot of experience to go around but you cannot play it like you would other MMOs, filling up the "hearts" is not a real way to level up, it's just a way to get you to zones.
in what way? I have found very little in this game that feels same old same old
Without any hostility, let me turn that question around on you; what have you found that doesn't exist in other MMOs? What brand new elements are there that you have never seen before?
All I have seen so far is; you look for the nearest heart on the map, go there, and do what needs to be done. Sometimes the objectives are really quite tedious (water the corn, feed the cows, play with the puppies, carry the rabit food) and other times they're more action oriented but still nothing new (kick a tree, kill the bad guy who drops down....kill the rampaging minotaurs...interact with a bush, kill what comes out). Then there's your personal storyline which has already been done AT LEAST as well in SWTOR (for all the things it did wrong, SWTOR had awesome storylines!) and is also being done- in my opinion, better -in The Secret World.
I'm not saying GW21 is bad because it's not...but what is so original about it?
EDIT: I should add; in between those "heart" areas, there's really just a lot of beautiful but pointless land. It looks awesome, has some monsters...and nothing to do. The hearts seem to be the core of the game, or am I missing something?
You are missing the DEs which change the world and chain between each other, some of them culminating in big zone events. There are around 1500 of them in the game. At the high level zones you wont even be doing heart quests because there are none of them.
If You are so bored of fantasy games, why you even played one? I mean, I thought that the fact GW was fantasy was known from start... from 7 years ago at least considering that's when GW1 was released. Were you expectingit to not be fantasy when you grabed a beta key? o.o
Let's see, personally I haven't had this much fun playing a game since the days of Ultima Online (Pre-Aos, and Aos). I'm in no way a GW2 fanboy, but I enjoy the game. I enjoyed the majority of GW1 but disliked the instanced world.
1) The game is a themepark? Sure, in some ways it very much is, but at the same time it doesn't seem to punish players for not grinding rep, for not going to a quest hub, for not doing this or that. I've been really enjoying myself running around and discovering things while doing hearts, dynamic events, and crafting. The whole point of the game is to give players the freedom to play it the way they'd like, whether that be PvE, PvP, Crafting, or exploring, without punishing them harshly.
In WoW and Rift, you leveled to grind out the rep at the end and to farm honor/ranks to get the best PvP gear. Don't get me wrong, I loved WoW in the days of BC, and I loved Rift up until Trion proved it didn't know how to balance. Rift's events were dull and boring, and literally there were only a handful. GW2 atleast seems to have many more than that to keep in atleast interesting.
The game isn't genre changing, no. It isn't completely out of the realm of themepark and it isn't exactly a sandbox game. I don't think it ever claimed to be though? The game is fun to play. The classes are fun to play. The idea that I can do whatever I would like to within the world and be rewarded for it the same as someone doing something different is also fun. There's a semi-linear path in almost every game you play. Think about it, even in sandboxes (Darkfall, UO, Minecraft, etc.) you start off with lesser mobs and move on to harder mobs, better crafting, and choices about what you'd like to do. One could argue the entire progression system in any game is a linear path of progression. GW atleast breaks away from the basic quest hub and stale trinity ideas.
2) The game is less focused on gear/class choice. The game offers many combinations to different styles of gameplay, and builds. It's nice to see a game that lets you play the way you'd like to, without gimping you. In WoW and Rift, you need dedicated healers and tanks. WoW use to have a diverse class system with individual abilities that were unique to each class which made them fun to play, because they were different. Rift also had amazing class customization, but because of poor balancing only specific specs were viable top-end.
My point is that customization, whether it be class or gear is important. It's important to let players play the way they'd like while maintaining balance in their decisions (More DPS vs. More survivability for example, talents, wep choice, etc.), and there are plenty of possibilities in GW2.
3) The game has a lot to offer to any playstyle. It's fun to play PvP, PvE, Exploring, Crafting, or dabbling in all of them. Underwater combat/exploring is pretty cool. Hidden areas/secrets that aren't explicitly pointed out. Dynamic events.
4) All of those complaing about the cash shop - the game has no monthly fee. All you'll find in the cash shop is convenience/deco. It isn't pay to win. There's nothing there to stop you from enjoying the game just because some 12 year old kid is spending his birthday money on convenience items. And, at the same time, those purchasing style items are supporting the company who published the game and isn't charging a monthly fee. That means after a couple months, if you want to sink some more cash (the $15 dollars a month you weren't spending) into something you think you'll enjoy, then you can.
All in all, it comes down to if you enjoy the game or not. It isn't exactly your standard theme-park, and it isn't exactly a sandbox, but it combines the two in a way that is fun and engaging, for me. I mean hell, I waited almost half my life for Diablo III to come out and as much as I wanted to like it, it took away what made the diablo franchise so much fun.
If the game isn't for you, then it isn't. If it looks like fun, then try it out. NCsoft, even with GW1, seemed content pushing out content that was new and fun for their players. They seem to want to continue that with GW2, and if a $60 entrance fee is stopping you from checking out GW2 when it releases, and you think you'll enjoy it, then try it out.
So far it's a good game. Does it live up to the Manifesto? Time will tell (cause once players start being more vocal things may change). But all in all it is a good game that will most likely be my "switch it up" game when I get into a rutt in my main MMO.
Now, has it lived up to it's hype? Lord no. And heres why;
1. Doesn't make me coffee.
2. Is not the cure for cancer.
3. Will not resurrect deceased loved ones.
4. Will not make you win Powerball.
Now, to be serious. The game is good at what it does - It's not the greatest game in the world, but really no game is nor will be. It's the same as other MMOs yet different at the same time. And thats a good thing.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Manifesto? I think Arena Net is taking themselves way too seriously. I think they're a little narcissistic too. They've always kind of been that way even back in GW1 days.It's going to be a fun game and I'll buy it when it goes on sale because $60 up front is way too high with a cash shop. It's definitely not all that it promises on paper in the way it's marketed, but it is a really good evolution of the themepark.The one thing that is touted that I think disappoints, or was over-marketed, are the dynamic events. They are a much more interesting that RIFT's rifts, but they don't really change the world. Better than nothing though, but still not the living breathing world thing that they promised with them.
I actually found it alot better than I was expecting personally. After so many recent hyped games I was pretty skeptical of it untill I played it this last weekend. Not saying id pay a monthly fee for it, but since thats not an issue im happy with my pre order.
The manifesto in all honesty (at least IMO) is a moot point really, it's part marketing part brainstorming. The content is fun (to many), the PVP passable compared to most this day and age. That's really all that matters.
The true test won't even take place until six months to a year after the game releases. All most have is a small taste of the entire game and the released product. That's assuming those folks have seen all BWE and stress tests. Which adds up to a little over a week of gameplay time. That is nothing to score an MMO on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
in what way? I have found very little in this game that feels same old same old
Without any hostility, let me turn that question around on you; what have you found that doesn't exist in other MMOs? What brand new elements are there that you have never seen before?
All I have seen so far is; you look for the nearest heart on the map, go there, and do what needs to be done. Sometimes the objectives are really quite tedious (water the corn, feed the cows, play with the puppies, carry the rabit food) and other times they're more action oriented but still nothing new (kick a tree, kill the bad guy who drops down....kill the rampaging minotaurs...interact with a bush, kill what comes out). Then there's your personal storyline which has already been done AT LEAST as well in SWTOR (for all the things it did wrong, SWTOR had awesome storylines!) and is also being done- in my opinion, better -in The Secret World.
I'm not saying GW21 is bad because it's not...but what is so original about it?
EDIT: I should add; in between those "heart" areas, there's really just a lot of beautiful but pointless land. It looks awesome, has some monsters...and nothing to do. The hearts seem to be the core of the game, or am I missing something?
Spoken like someone who hasnt leveld out of the 1-17 zone.
The stuff gets real and fast after your starter zone.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Does it live up to its manifesto? Yes it make a very reasonable attempt at designing and implementing a game that follows these principles.
Do these design principles actually make a good game? Apparrently it does because the game is amazingly good and you will some various uses of their underlying architecture that will be pretty amazing.
The final event in BWE3 was a really good illustartion of how they can give you completely different gameplay yet use the same mechanics and game architecture they already have in place not needing to make anything new.
I think they came through with what they stated in the manifesto. I see GW2 as a "no BS just go out there and adventure" type of game and I even skipped the storyline. If I had never played an MMO before it's what I would expect out of one.
Offcourse it lives up to the manifesto, the problem is certain people where never willing to understand even the basics of the manifesto
This ^
People that looked at the manifesto like a real list of features, and not marketting hype, generally had a pretty good understanding of what to expect. And I don't think anyone can really argue that they didn't meet exactly what was on that list. Maybe subjectively they way they met each criteria isn't the same way one would personally do it themselves (if they were actually a game dev), but that's life. You can't be the one sitting at home, taking no risks, and expect to have your way on everything. At the end of the day, they are the ones making the game.
I think I liked how TotalBiscuit put this game best: 'GW2 is a damned good game, and it indeed does what it promised to do. However, people need to remember that it is still an MMO. As such, it's going to have some similarities with the genre, because it's an MMO. GW2 does a lot to mask this though, and it's all fairly well hidden.'
There's such a long, obvious list of ways in which this game has what it promised, and is different from other MMOs, that it's really gotten old re-linking such info every other thread.
in what way? I have found very little in this game that feels same old same old
Without any hostility, let me turn that question around on you; what have you found that doesn't exist in other MMOs? What brand new elements are there that you have never seen before?
All I have seen so far is; you look for the nearest heart on the map, go there, and do what needs to be done. Sometimes the objectives are really quite tedious (water the corn, feed the cows, play with the puppies, carry the rabit food) and other times they're more action oriented but still nothing new (kick a tree, kill the bad guy who drops down....kill the rampaging minotaurs...interact with a bush, kill what comes out). Then there's your personal storyline which has already been done AT LEAST as well in SWTOR (for all the things it did wrong, SWTOR had awesome storylines!) and is also being done- in my opinion, better -in The Secret World.
I'm not saying GW21 is bad because it's not...but what is so original about it?
EDIT: I should add; in between those "heart" areas, there's really just a lot of beautiful but pointless land. It looks awesome, has some monsters...and nothing to do. The hearts seem to be the core of the game, or am I missing something?
You are missing the DEs which change the world and chain between each other, some of them culminating in big zone events. There are around 1500 of them in the game. At the high level zones you wont even be doing heart quests because there are none of them.
so yes, you are missing something, about 80% of the game content.
He is not missing anything. The CORE game is exactly how he described it.
Hearts aren't the core of the game, they are to help guide you around to points of interest.
Hearts are not the core of the game anymore then talking to a questgiver that says "go talk to this guy, he'll have some work for you" is the core of any other mmo
DE's really aren't the core of the game either though. The core of the game is really you. There is alot of different facets to the game that could be construed as the "core" of the game, but it's going to depend for each person. Some people will say that WvW is the core of the game. Others will says it's DE's. Some will regard the personal storyline as the games core.
For me, it's the fact of how random it can seem. I was at a vendor, trying to clear out my inventory. All of a suddent there is wave after wave of attackers and me and the other handful of players are trying to defend the tiny outpost. People are dropping but we manage to pull through by the skin of our teeth. It was a great 5 minutes or so of complete chaos. Nobody started a quest for it. It just started and you had no choice but to fight or run for your life.
Another fun experience was when we were trying to gain access to a skill challenge and ended up piggy backing on a DE that was going on. I don't know how many parts to the chain there were but at the end we were fighting a fire elemental that stood a good 50 to 100 feet tall. If you weren't paying attention it would one shot you, even if you were the proper level. We were 5 levels too low. It's was a mess to say the least, but the several dozen people that had collected to do the fight kept at it and after a long fight we took it down. And even though my group was 5 levels too low, we still managed to contribute and were fairly rewarded.
People can say whatever they want about GW2, and frankly I could really care less about the opinions of the people that don't like the game. No game can cater to every person out there. This game caters to the people that I want to game with.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Comments
Offcourse it lives up to the manifesto, the problem is certain people where never willing to understand even the basics of the manifesto
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Grumpy, my level 9 mesmer is in an area filled with level 20s.
I killed zero creatures except the tutorial ones, all 9 levels were accomplished with exploration and gathering crafting materials.
The game as alot of experience to go around but you cannot play it like you would other MMOs, filling up the "hearts" is not a real way to level up, it's just a way to get you to zones.
Not only does it live up to it, it surpasses it!
Rofl, my thoughts exactly. TSW feels like I should have played it on my PS3 and paid the one time price for it, like most single player games.
say the guy who thing Tera is epic.....dude go back to that crap
gw2--->your Tera and any other themepark mmo's out there easily
Maybe its time for you guys to change game type
. No MMO will please you i guess.
If You are so bored of fantasy games, why you even played one? I mean, I thought that the fact GW was fantasy was known from start... from 7 years ago at least considering that's when GW1 was released. Were you expectingit to not be fantasy when you grabed a beta key? o.o
It does not, the basics are the same, it only brings some tweaks to old systems.
However, I will buy and play it, the game is nonetheless fun, but nowhere near addictive.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Let's see, personally I haven't had this much fun playing a game since the days of Ultima Online (Pre-Aos, and Aos). I'm in no way a GW2 fanboy, but I enjoy the game. I enjoyed the majority of GW1 but disliked the instanced world.
1) The game is a themepark? Sure, in some ways it very much is, but at the same time it doesn't seem to punish players for not grinding rep, for not going to a quest hub, for not doing this or that. I've been really enjoying myself running around and discovering things while doing hearts, dynamic events, and crafting. The whole point of the game is to give players the freedom to play it the way they'd like, whether that be PvE, PvP, Crafting, or exploring, without punishing them harshly.
In WoW and Rift, you leveled to grind out the rep at the end and to farm honor/ranks to get the best PvP gear. Don't get me wrong, I loved WoW in the days of BC, and I loved Rift up until Trion proved it didn't know how to balance. Rift's events were dull and boring, and literally there were only a handful. GW2 atleast seems to have many more than that to keep in atleast interesting.
The game isn't genre changing, no. It isn't completely out of the realm of themepark and it isn't exactly a sandbox game. I don't think it ever claimed to be though? The game is fun to play. The classes are fun to play. The idea that I can do whatever I would like to within the world and be rewarded for it the same as someone doing something different is also fun. There's a semi-linear path in almost every game you play. Think about it, even in sandboxes (Darkfall, UO, Minecraft, etc.) you start off with lesser mobs and move on to harder mobs, better crafting, and choices about what you'd like to do. One could argue the entire progression system in any game is a linear path of progression. GW atleast breaks away from the basic quest hub and stale trinity ideas.
2) The game is less focused on gear/class choice. The game offers many combinations to different styles of gameplay, and builds. It's nice to see a game that lets you play the way you'd like to, without gimping you. In WoW and Rift, you need dedicated healers and tanks. WoW use to have a diverse class system with individual abilities that were unique to each class which made them fun to play, because they were different. Rift also had amazing class customization, but because of poor balancing only specific specs were viable top-end.
My point is that customization, whether it be class or gear is important. It's important to let players play the way they'd like while maintaining balance in their decisions (More DPS vs. More survivability for example, talents, wep choice, etc.), and there are plenty of possibilities in GW2.
3) The game has a lot to offer to any playstyle. It's fun to play PvP, PvE, Exploring, Crafting, or dabbling in all of them. Underwater combat/exploring is pretty cool. Hidden areas/secrets that aren't explicitly pointed out. Dynamic events.
4) All of those complaing about the cash shop - the game has no monthly fee. All you'll find in the cash shop is convenience/deco. It isn't pay to win. There's nothing there to stop you from enjoying the game just because some 12 year old kid is spending his birthday money on convenience items. And, at the same time, those purchasing style items are supporting the company who published the game and isn't charging a monthly fee. That means after a couple months, if you want to sink some more cash (the $15 dollars a month you weren't spending) into something you think you'll enjoy, then you can.
All in all, it comes down to if you enjoy the game or not. It isn't exactly your standard theme-park, and it isn't exactly a sandbox, but it combines the two in a way that is fun and engaging, for me. I mean hell, I waited almost half my life for Diablo III to come out and as much as I wanted to like it, it took away what made the diablo franchise so much fun.
If the game isn't for you, then it isn't. If it looks like fun, then try it out. NCsoft, even with GW1, seemed content pushing out content that was new and fun for their players. They seem to want to continue that with GW2, and if a $60 entrance fee is stopping you from checking out GW2 when it releases, and you think you'll enjoy it, then try it out.
So far it's a good game. Does it live up to the Manifesto? Time will tell (cause once players start being more vocal things may change). But all in all it is a good game that will most likely be my "switch it up" game when I get into a rutt in my main MMO.
Now, has it lived up to it's hype? Lord no. And heres why;
1. Doesn't make me coffee.
2. Is not the cure for cancer.
3. Will not resurrect deceased loved ones.
4. Will not make you win Powerball.
Now, to be serious. The game is good at what it does - It's not the greatest game in the world, but really no game is nor will be. It's the same as other MMOs yet different at the same time. And thats a good thing.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The events I believe missed the mark.Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Pretty much this, I was impressed with GW2 and how they are building their game.
Yes, guild wars is somthing else
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I actually found it alot better than I was expecting personally. After so many recent hyped games I was pretty skeptical of it untill I played it this last weekend. Not saying id pay a monthly fee for it, but since thats not an issue im happy with my pre order.
It delivered. I think some people just expected too much from the DEs.
My theme song.
It lived up to what I, and many other people looking forward to GW2 were expecting out of events.
I think cali59 used to put it best. The world changing is the LEAST important part of how dynamic events are advanced over previous games versions.
I think people with realistic expectations were generally satisfied or pleasantly surprised.
The manifesto in all honesty (at least IMO) is a moot point really, it's part marketing part brainstorming. The content is fun (to many), the PVP passable compared to most this day and age. That's really all that matters.
The true test won't even take place until six months to a year after the game releases. All most have is a small taste of the entire game and the released product. That's assuming those folks have seen all BWE and stress tests. Which adds up to a little over a week of gameplay time. That is nothing to score an MMO on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Spoken like someone who hasnt leveld out of the 1-17 zone.
The stuff gets real and fast after your starter zone.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Does it live up to its manifesto? Yes it make a very reasonable attempt at designing and implementing a game that follows these principles.
Do these design principles actually make a good game? Apparrently it does because the game is amazingly good and you will some various uses of their underlying architecture that will be pretty amazing.
The final event in BWE3 was a really good illustartion of how they can give you completely different gameplay yet use the same mechanics and game architecture they already have in place not needing to make anything new.
I think they came through with what they stated in the manifesto. I see GW2 as a "no BS just go out there and adventure" type of game and I even skipped the storyline. If I had never played an MMO before it's what I would expect out of one.
This ^
People that looked at the manifesto like a real list of features, and not marketting hype, generally had a pretty good understanding of what to expect. And I don't think anyone can really argue that they didn't meet exactly what was on that list. Maybe subjectively they way they met each criteria isn't the same way one would personally do it themselves (if they were actually a game dev), but that's life. You can't be the one sitting at home, taking no risks, and expect to have your way on everything. At the end of the day, they are the ones making the game.
I think I liked how TotalBiscuit put this game best: 'GW2 is a damned good game, and it indeed does what it promised to do. However, people need to remember that it is still an MMO. As such, it's going to have some similarities with the genre, because it's an MMO. GW2 does a lot to mask this though, and it's all fairly well hidden.'
There's such a long, obvious list of ways in which this game has what it promised, and is different from other MMOs, that it's really gotten old re-linking such info every other thread.
Somehow yes, every company exaggerate when it comes to sales.
Hearts are not the core of the game anymore then talking to a questgiver that says "go talk to this guy, he'll have some work for you" is the core of any other mmo
DE's really aren't the core of the game either though. The core of the game is really you. There is alot of different facets to the game that could be construed as the "core" of the game, but it's going to depend for each person. Some people will say that WvW is the core of the game. Others will says it's DE's. Some will regard the personal storyline as the games core.
For me, it's the fact of how random it can seem. I was at a vendor, trying to clear out my inventory. All of a suddent there is wave after wave of attackers and me and the other handful of players are trying to defend the tiny outpost. People are dropping but we manage to pull through by the skin of our teeth. It was a great 5 minutes or so of complete chaos. Nobody started a quest for it. It just started and you had no choice but to fight or run for your life.
Another fun experience was when we were trying to gain access to a skill challenge and ended up piggy backing on a DE that was going on. I don't know how many parts to the chain there were but at the end we were fighting a fire elemental that stood a good 50 to 100 feet tall. If you weren't paying attention it would one shot you, even if you were the proper level. We were 5 levels too low. It's was a mess to say the least, but the several dozen people that had collected to do the fight kept at it and after a long fight we took it down. And even though my group was 5 levels too low, we still managed to contribute and were fairly rewarded.
People can say whatever they want about GW2, and frankly I could really care less about the opinions of the people that don't like the game. No game can cater to every person out there. This game caters to the people that I want to game with.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
It lives up to the hype.
This is not a game.
I don't need no manifesto this game was fun from the word go. It's not hype this one is the real deal not like the others.