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[Video] Tombs PvP with Necros
PaulOtt
Member Posts: 57
in Guild Wars
Yep. It's true. Necromancers suck in PvP.
http://files.filefront.com/NecroSuckzip/;4125869;;/fileinfo.html
Comments
They aren't that good only because they don't have that many good skills or attribute that are useful. Soul Reaping sucks because it takes a real long time for someone to die in actual PvP and the benefit isn't huge. You are only getting maybe 10 points back per death for a attribute level of 10. Blood is limited as many of the skills hurt you while doing little damage to the opponent unless you use vampiric spells. Curses is the only really good category to invest in because of DoTs and speed reducing spells that can be used against warriors. Death has some uses, but they aren't really that many spells that are good, they take too long to cast, the minions summon from the death category suck in endurance and damage (unless you summon them in great numbers.) and try to conjure up an army of undead is very hard to pull off since 1) People don't die often and 2) The summoned undead die too fast to be useful.
I will say this though, if you use vampiric spells, curses, some inspiration spells and a monk use protection spells and spirits that lower cost of energy, that could reduce the effectiveness of the opposing team and keep your health up at the same time.
Mes/Necro or Pure Necro
Feast of Corruption
Vampiric Touch
Vampiric Gaze
Soul Feast
Suffering
Plague Sending
Descreate Enchantments
Res Signet
Monk/Ranger
*Protection Spells
Energizing Winds
Frozen Soil
I said this on this forum and another forum, that guild wars classes are imbalanced and proof of this is the builds being centered around one dominant class. I said it was a matter of time before the necromancers came up with their own build.
People say that Guild Wars isn't imbalanced in terms of class. Fanboys will fight tooth to nails like idiots with no proof to deny the allegiations of imbalancing issue in the game. I always ask, why then do we have builds that consist mostly of one class? All class except the warriors can easily tip the scale on balance in this game. Most of the diverse teams are weak against pure teams consisting of just one class. Guild Wars is suppose to be about variety and every team having an equal advantage yet, the pure breed teams are the most powerful groups in the game.
There are now teams with 7 wars/R and 1 necro/M... the are using the IWAU build... tearing up tombs pretty bad from what i understand.
Yes, I agree the IWAU build is easy to shutdown... In spite of that it is still tearing up tombs atm.
It's just an easy build to put together, in 5mins instead of spending 20+ to make a normal competent group. So it seems... if your set up to play the IWAU build you can just say "IWAU warrior LFG" and get a group in a min or two... as opposed to being a Mesmer and shouting LFG for 30mins plus and half the time still not getting a "competent" group. You may get a group quickly as a Me, but chances are they won't even make it through underworld.
You sure are itching for an argument. Ok. Here's my proof that:
A) Pure breed teams aren't the most powerful
--> None of the top 20 teams on the ladder run a pure breed team
--> Pure breed teams of any variety, including warrior, have been shown to be competitive in Tombs even though non of the top 20 teams use them in GvG. If you couldn't run pure breed teams and be somewhat competitive, that would demonstrate a lack of balance because it would require diversity. True balance is obtained when 8 Warriors are about as strong as 8 Necromancers, and about as strong as 2 Warrior, 2 Necromancers, 1 Ranger, 1 Elementalist, 1 Monk, and 1 Mesmer. That is balance.
By the way, I get the impression you haven't played GW in several weeks. At least not since the update that fixed spirit spam. Have a nice day.
No s**t, dude. I left GW before the update because the PvP battles were getting predictable, idiotic, the community was crap and because the game became a big farming game due to the fact you found yourself either farming faction points, skills, money, component or equipment. The game is against farming, but that's what you end up doing. Have a nice day.
Way to miss the point. Back to the point: EP actually did use a Ranger heavy team before the update, but they don't anymore with their smurf, Jet Li. Regardless of how 'skilled' they are (both a subjective and relative term), they are the best GW has to offer right now and they aren't using pure breed builds now. It would seem that if pure breed teams were as clearly out of balance as you imply, teams using them would beat the rest of the GW population and would thus rise to the top of the ladder.
I didn't say GW was perfectly balanced as you seem to think; but rather I said it was pretty balanced. Even Starcraft had to undergo changes to balance after its release. Heck, even certain moves are restricted in Street Fighter tournaments. How's that for balance? What are you using as your gauge for 'balance'? To what game are you comparing GW?
And you know what else? GW will continue to undergo minor skill changes to keep the game fun and balanced. I would consider the game unbalanced if the top 10 teams on the ladder all ran the exact same build. Or even very similar builds. But that isn't the case at all.
Tombs, or TPK as you call it, is a horrible, horrible place to judge balance. Dreadful. Too many of the maps are centered around secondary objectives and multiple teams fighting one another which doesn't allow a straight-up 8v8 testing of skill. Not to mention you'll very rarely run into a top 10 team in there, causing it to be mostly people without a lot of skill and that aren't taking the fights serious. And finally, spike builds, like the ones you mention, are insanely easy to counter if you have a good Monk on your team. It's an old tactic that punishes a lot of people that don't know how to handle it (or aren't expecting it), but you can't win against top teams with it.
As much as I hate to, I'm going to agree with you here. During the first 3 months of playing regularly, I had only unlocked half the game. Very frustrating. However, since the PvPX weekend and now with the 5 times faction increase a permanent part of the game, I've unlocked nearly everything. In another week or two, I anticipate having everything unlocked (all skills, runes, weapon upgrades) and that's without doing anymore PvE.
You might want to check out the game updates page.
GW still has some hurdles to overcome with regard to balance, disconnects, etc, but I think it has the potential to become a classic.
CaptainRPG it is obvious you have very strong feelings about the game. And for someone who quit the game close to two weeks ago you have been posting quite a few times recently. I just had to figure some of your thinking out.
1) I'm betting half the top 20th ranked guild probably consist of morons who fought there ways to the top with no skill.
-->Are you upset that you could not get into the top 20? Why do you attack them, they obviously have more skill and communication that most guilds or everyone would be close to them? Isn't the point of Guild Wars having a ladder is to fight to the top or would you feel better if they just ranked you some where because they felt like it?
2) I left GW before the update because the PvP battles were getting predictable
-->What made it predictable, that you would always win or always lose, that you would face the same build?
3) The game is against farming, but that's what you end up doing.
-->Actually the Dev's @ A.net have said repeatedly that they are all for standard farming. At the higher levels (max lvl) what do you really expect to do in any game. With GW, you are going to end up farming for gold/items to sale, unlockables such as mods and skills or you will farm faction and fame in PvP to rise up the ladder.
All in all, there are going to be certain builds that just dont cut it in PvP (ie minion necro's), but that does not mean that necro's are unbalanced. Are there skills that I think they should have that they dont yes, but you create the best you can with what you have. Combo teams that work together well will always have an advantage, just like in nature. In nature, everyone has the same genes, everyone catches same cold, everyone dies
Where on the other hand in nature, through diversity strengths are formed. If a team continually wins with one build they will eventually meet thier counter build and die, if they dont adapt, then they will continue to lose. I think the FoTW builds that come out are exciting because you know they are going to cause action to be taken. And so the cycle continues builds/counters/new builds.
Play the game that gives you the most fun and excitement....remember, it is only a game.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Something near or around this skeleton. They use weak pets, so they die, and can use "I will avenage you". The nerco can also blow up the pets corpses and spam order spells.
IWAY Warriors: x5
Warrior/Ranger:
Axe Mastery: 16
Strength: 11
Beast Mastery: 6
Eviscerate
Axe Rake
Executioners Strike
Penetrating Blow
I Will Avenge You
Tigers Fury
Charm Animal
Res Sig
--
IWAY Warrior Winnow:
Warrior/Ranger: x1
Axe Mastery: 16
Strength: 11
Wilderness Survival: 6
Eviscerate
Axe Rake
Executioners Strike
Penetrating Blow
I Will Avenge You
Winnowing
Charm Animal
Res Sig
--
IWAY Warrior Pred:
Warrior/Ranger: x1
Axe Mastery: 16
Strength: 11
Beast Mastery: 6
Eviscerate
Axe Rake
Executioners Strike
Penetrating Blow
I Will Avenge You
Predatory Season
Charm Animal
Res Sig
--
IWAY Necro:
Necro/Monk: x1
Blood Magic: 11+1+3
Death Magic: 10+1
Soul Reaping: 8+1
Healing Prayers: 6
Well of Profane
Order of the Vampire
Order of Pain
Putrid Explosion
Death Nova
Well of Blood
Healing Breeze
Res Sig
(OPTIONAL)
get one of the regular IWAY Warrior's and give him 6 wilderness survival and instead of Tigers Fury take Nature's Renewal.
Way to miss the point. Back to the point: EP actually did use a Ranger heavy team before the update, but they don't anymore with their smurf, Jet Li.
We also met a two spike groups before the update that that beat our team twice by a guild in the 254th rank. So pure breed builds were common.
Regardless of how 'skilled' they are (both a subjective and relative term), they are the best GW has to offer right now and they aren't using pure breed builds now. It would seem that if pure breed teams were as clearly out of balance as you imply, teams using them would beat the rest of the GW population and would thus rise to the top of the ladder.
I only knew of War Machine at the time and Idiot Savant who were 202th rank at the time. The Idiot Savant pent most of their time beating using Spirit Builds. And for your information, I was in a 25th rank guild (before they became @$$holes) and we used a War and Monk Dominant build that abused Life Barrier.
And some of the teams at the top of the guild were using pure builds.
I didnt say
Yourre not the only fanboy who makes claims like this. They also make claims on the other boards. Such as warrior being the weakest class in the game. I use to think it was the ranger, but the warrior sucks because every OTHER class fights from a distance (BIG IMBALANCE), inflict conditions and they all have protections against the warrior. The warrior on the other hand was built to take out other warriors. Sure the warrior has a FEW anti-spell and interrupting moves, but if must of the skills work against melee attack or people they can easily get close to. Though hammer skills can be used as an anti-spell weapon, Ive found with practice that hammers work better against other warriors than spellcasters.
Subjects like this and many others only prove that what fanboys and yourself are not seeing the truth.
GW was perfectly balanced as you seem to think; but rather I said it was pretty balanced.
This game is as balanced as every other MMORPG out there.
Heck, even certain moves are restricted in Street Fighter tournaments.
In the beginning, they ban infinities combo, but then they let that rule up. Now tournaments only ban glitches animations that cause players to get stuck in sub-space or in animation.
And you know what else? GW will continue to undergo minor skill changes to keep the game fun and balanced.
Thats what every other MMORPG out there is doing. And minor changes turn in big changes when accumulated overtime. (Original the Rangers pets were overpower too and they got nerfed)
And finally, spike builds, like the ones you mention, are insanely easy to counter if you have a good Monk on your team. It's an old tactic that punishes a lot of people that don't know how to handle it (or aren't expecting it), but you can't win against top teams with it.
If the spike groups go after a protection monk first then yeah, theyll live through it, but spike groups spike out of order so there is no telling who they will spike first. (Earth Spike groups are the worse) You can really beat a spike group with one or two easy tactics, Fertile Season and/or Natures Renewal and Quickening Zephyr.
GW still has some hurdles to overcome with regard to balance, disconnects, etc, but I think it has the potential to become a classic.
MMORPGs cant become classics since the server are shut down. DUUUUUUUUUUH!
As much as I hate to, I'm going to agree with you here. During the first 3 months of playing regularly, I had only unlocked half the game. Very frustrating. However, since the PvPX weekend and now with the 5 times faction increase a permanent part of the game, I've unlocked nearly everything. In another week or two, I anticipate having everything unlocked (all skills, runes, weapon upgrades) and that's without doing anymore PvE. <?xml:namespace prefix = v /> You might want to check out the game updates page.
This was so dumbass. And yes, I was there when they added fraction points, but heres secret a lot people use to farm skills and armor better without farming faction points. To getting 60% of all the moves in the game and better armor, just go to Droknars Forge and use the Skill Capture signet there and youll get a lot of skills there. Its takes only 3 days to get to between Kryta and Droknars Forge.
Are you upset that you could not get into the top 20?
No and you might want to include the rest of the paragraph before making half-ass assumption.
What made it predictable, that you would always win or always lose, that you would face the same build?
The motives of the players; 74th rank guild fought the same as the guild ranked in the 500ths. Despite the hundreds of moves, only a handful of moves worked, which is where it started to become predictable.
As for me, winning or losing, wasnt even a factor in the sense you think. Winning and losing was based on dumb luck. Im speaking honestly because you (and the other team) go into the fight BLIND! You dont know what build the other team is using so when you go in a fight with a certain build, pure or diverse, the team you are going up against may have a better build and no matter how well you play, the other team is going to beat you because you either didnt anticipate certain moves or the build the team is using. So when you lose, you dont feel bad, but you dont feel good either. Its pretty mixed feelings. As I said earlier, my last guild lost to a 254th ranked guild and later we beat a team as high up as 74th.
Actually the Dev's @ A.net have said repeatedly that they are all for standard farming.
Yes, we talked about what the Devs said and they were trying to fix the farming situation because that became a huge complaint at the start of the game. Players were getting good drops in low level areas. The nerfing of loot drops, real time economic prices and the nerf of good loot drops caused players to spend MORE time farming. (And hate PvE even more.) Fraction as I predicted only cause more players to jump onto the PvP wagon, which is what happen the day after it was installed. Hundreds of noobs tried farm competition areas; unfortunately, the pros went to team/competition for easy kills and faction.
Captain, thanks for the responses.
Please note that I did not assume nor make a "half-ass assumption" in what I said. I asked a question in reference to your statement. And the rest of your paragraph did not have an answer to my question or I would not have asked. In the last post I see you were up to 25th and you hated your guild after a while...might explain some of the anger directed at the top 20 or so guilds.
"Fraction as I predicted only cause more players to jump onto the PvP wagon, which is what happen the day after it was installed. Hundreds of noobs tried farm competition areas; unfortunately, the pros went to team/competition for easy kills and faction."
---> The event they held with increased faction of course would bring a bunch of newer people into try out PvP...not much of a prediction, more of an expected result.
Do you remember the first time you played PvP in the game... that means you had to start at some time. Were you a "noob" trying to farm faction when you first started? Probably not, probably just trying to learn.
Did you get gang raped like the rest of us by more experienced player like you are now? I would guess yes and say you learned some things from those players that you use today (or used to use as the case may be.)
I think complaining about "noobs" jumping on the PvP wagon and complaining there is no diversity in the game at the same time is hilarious. All the new people who were strong enough mentaly to stick with PvP after the event they ran will be stronger PvP players. If you constantly got your ass handed to you by the 733ts of the game and you still come back for more...props. There will be those that see it as a challenge and those who will be forever wandering Tyria or wondering on other games servers because of it. The more players, the more chance new ideas and new builds will begin to flourish. Heck someone may find a way to make a necro minion master work well. I think this thread is mostly about balance and builds, either lacking one class or too many of another. The more people you can direct to PvP with the ever changing tweaks of skills, the more fun you will have in the game.
Come back and try it out....and remember its only a game.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
They may suck, but that video rocks
Nice one!!
Captain,
I think complaining about "noobs" jumping on the PvP wagon and complaining there is no diversity in the game at the same time is hilarious.
What?
---> I see how your deifinition of "noobs" would cause confusion about this statement. Most of the time when you see the "noob" being thrown all over the screen it is by elitist attacking players with less experience (ex. Player X Where is the trader? Elitist (aka. Scumbag) "STFU and findout for yourself n00b") While I do not agree with the use of the word (staight over used), I do agree with YOUR definition.
Now read the statement using my definition ("noob" being someone inexperienced) and see if you agree. Do you think the more new players that come into the game in the PvP area, the better the competition and the more new builds will come of it? I am curious what would bring you back to PvP...not because I really care if you do or not..., but more because I am sure there are a ton of others that feel similar to you. I think this mostly necro build is pretty inventive and judging by the success in the video, I am sure there will be others checking the build out and tinkering with it.
Enjoy your games for they are indeed just games
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
You ask what would I like to see in GW? Jump/Flipping, Climbing, Spiking (Knocking your opponent away), and Launching. (Knocking your opponent up) This would make the game more innovative and create more strageties. Redo the Warrior class so you can have more warrior-related classes and create more weapons.