And in case you missed it OP, P2P game sell boxes. They most of their investement back like any B2P would. The difference is, the P2P keeps gettin money after that, which is usually more usefull.
Which is my entire point, or did you NOT read my thread as your post seems to indicate?
I pointed out that P2P games also do box sales, but GW2 is ONLY doing box sales which in itself is not a measure of pure success. However, people will still shout "SUCCESS!" simply because it's B2P, but that isn't true simply because they're planning to milk GW2 with cash-shops as their form of subscriptions.
Pff. That's just plaing stupid. So you sir are saying that if a certain game isn't P2P it ain't successful?
Music is the science of manipulating people trough sound.
Originally posted by Tekaelon Dude just get over it! The game is FUN. It does things no other game does and makes it easy to play with others. The world is amazing. Dynamic events are engaging. Why do these posts keep showing up. It won't be all things to all people, but it will have and maintain a sizable population.
Posts like this are the prime example of what's wrong here.
You provided zero effort into explaining ANY of the points you brought up. Simply saying "It's awesome!" is detrimental to the overall discussion. Put EFFORT into what you're posting to get your opinion across.
Why is it FUN?
How do they make it easy to play with others?
Why is the world "amazing"???
How are the events Dynamic? From what they've showed so far they're not actually "Dynamic" (speaking from a programmer perspective, it's just a spin word so far in the industry)
Why are said events engaging? Do they constantly chain off each other based on previous win/loss conditions? Do they evolve into MASSIVE area changing events if you lose? Do those area changing events then create new "events" that have similar "engaging" experiences?
I've played GW2 so I know the answer to these questions already, but you didn't even try to support anything. This is the whole problem!!!
There are hundreds of posts that u don´t even comment becuase u '' CAN´T ''. it is obivious that u don´t know much about GW or the mmo-industry to even comment some of the info-full posts explaining why u don´t have a point. intead of doing that, u go to some short comments, complaining why they do give thier opinion whitout explining. If I would have known how the thread/ur comments will end up to be, I wouldn´t have bothered writing a long post.
Don´t await people to give a real '' explanation '' when you don´t even have a point in ur thread
Similarly, there are comments that can't be made here simply because you don't have the experience I do with Alphas, Betas, and Retail releases over the years to detail everything out into a nice little explanation. However, the points i raised are not impossible to outline, and are simply lazy excuses to shoot down someone else's points.
Nothing I outlined is "too hard to explain" if you know enough about them.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
And in case you missed it OP, P2P game sell boxes. They most of their investement back like any B2P would. The difference is, the P2P keeps gettin money after that, which is usually more usefull.
Which is my entire point, or did you NOT read my thread as your post seems to indicate?
I pointed out that P2P games also do box sales, but GW2 is ONLY doing box sales which in itself is not a measure of pure success. However, people will still shout "SUCCESS!" simply because it's B2P, but that isn't true simply because they're planning to milk GW2 with cash-shops as their form of subscriptions.
Pff. That's just plaing stupid. So you sir are saying that if a certain game isn't P2P it ain't successful?
What are you talking about?! I said nothing of the sort. Did you not read what I said??
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
WoW's success is directly attributed to their "Entry Gating". Meaning their product could be played on Windows95 PC's with matching hardware "reasonably" well.
were you playing mmos pre-2004?
mmos didnt require beefy pcs to run
Everquest supported Windows95 too
Couldn't play SWG on a windows95 machine with greater than 5fps. I tried, believe me!
EQ also lagged like HELL on a Windows95 machine all the while WoW could play on the same machine at around 25fps.
Tons of games Pre-2004 couldn't run on a 95 machine, but did amazingly on XP machines with decent hardware. Everquest also released 5 years prior to 2004, and was designed for windows95.
Did YOU play games prior to 2004 ? I kid I kid, but you get my point !
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
And in case you missed it OP, P2P game sell boxes. They most of their investement back like any B2P would. The difference is, the P2P keeps gettin money after that, which is usually more usefull.
Which is my entire point, or did you NOT read my thread as your post seems to indicate?
I pointed out that P2P games also do box sales, but GW2 is ONLY doing box sales which in itself is not a measure of pure success. However, people will still shout "SUCCESS!" simply because it's B2P, but that isn't true simply because they're planning to milk GW2 with cash-shops as their form of subscriptions.
Pff. That's just plaing stupid. So you sir are saying that if a certain game isn't P2P it ain't successful?
I think his intention with that is to say that no matter how many boxes it sells, we can never call it successful. I think, after reading all of his posts, he is afraid that everyone is going to see 5 million copies sold in the first month and that people will proclaim it as being successful. So he makes excuses like, "it's all the GW1 players that bought GW1 spread out over 7 years", etc.
If GW2 sells some stupid number of boxes like 5 million in the first month (probably not happening), he doesn't want people to be able to proclaim, "COMPLETE SUCCESS ON ALL COUNTS." It seems like he feels like it's not fair because they don't have to release sub numbers.
That seems to be your problem, or perhaps your problem is with "similarities" and the word "cloning". Where did I say GW2 was a clone of GW1? No where, not a single spot. I said they were similar for obvious reasons, and GW2 was GW1 on steroids because it was built for the FANS of GW1 as a propr sequel. Again, people seem to have the misconception that "on steroids" == horrible clone?????
No, the problem lies in your choice of words and the misconceptions they bring. When you say "B is A on steroids", that gives the impression that "B" is simply a beefed up version of "A". (See Mark McGuire early and later in his career.) You give the false impression that GW2 is a heavily instanced CORPG as GW1 is, which couldn't be further from the truth. That's where the problem lies... what's implied from the statement.
GW2 IS a "beefed up version" of GW1. Perhaps it's the misunderstanding, or personal opinion, of what certain words mean? After all it is very hard to get the overally "emotion" behind an online post. When I see a 1995 Ford Mustang compared to a 2010 Ford Mustang I think "WoW, they really improved on the old for the fans of the old with the new!". All the while everything between the two was reworked, but generally is the same car.
GW2 is no different, and the expression "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" was a compliment meant to show appreciation that it was made with GW1 in mind as its source. Maybe you're too tighly wound up over people being negative about GW2?
/shrug
GW2 is completely different than GW1 besides the IP. Your car example simply doesn't work because mechanically a lot of things between a 95 mustang and a 2010 mustang are very similar as well as ultimately driving similarly. Dynamic events are a huge portion of the game and GW1 didn't even have them. GW2 is open world which creates a completely different gameplay experience. WvW is a big draw for some and GW1 didn't have it. GW2 didn't improve GW1 mechanics, they completely changed them and added more.
It isn't about being tightly wound, it just gives the impression that you have no idea what you're talking about(sounds rude I know), so people can assume everything else you've said is also false. To try and show how absurd the comment is, it's like saying a boeing 747 is like a mustang on steroids. Now would you trust anything else I had to say about a Boeing 747 if I thought it was like a beefed up car?
Tons of games Pre-2004 couldn't run on a 95 machine, but did amazingly on XP machines with decent hardware. Everquest also released 5 years prior to 2004, and was designed for windows95.
i agree SOE newer games - and only 2 -- SWG and EQ2 were mmo beasts for computer spec
but you cannot generalize the mmo market on those 2 games among a dozen others
care to list other early mmos that did not support windows95?
And in case you missed it OP, P2P game sell boxes. They most of their investement back like any B2P would. The difference is, the P2P keeps gettin money after that, which is usually more usefull.
Which is my entire point, or did you NOT read my thread as your post seems to indicate?
I pointed out that P2P games also do box sales, but GW2 is ONLY doing box sales which in itself is not a measure of pure success. However, people will still shout "SUCCESS!" simply because it's B2P, but that isn't true simply because they're planning to milk GW2 with cash-shops as their form of subscriptions.
Pff. That's just plaing stupid. So you sir are saying that if a certain game isn't P2P it ain't successful?
I think his intention with that is to say that no matter how many boxes it sells, we can never call it successful. I think, after reading all of his posts, he is afraid that everyone is going to see 5 million copies sold in the first month and that people will proclaim it as being successful. So he makes excuses like, "it's all the GW1 players that bought GW1 spread out over 7 years", etc.
If GW2 sells some stupid number of boxes like 5 million in the first month (probably not happening), he doesn't want people to be able to proclaim, "COMPLETE SUCCESS ON ALL COUNTS." It seems like he feels like it's not fair because they don't have to release sub numbers.
Exactly. Btw this is most useless thread ever.
Music is the science of manipulating people trough sound.
GW2 is going to be proof that you can make a MMO that isn't WoW, that doesn't have the subscription model, and still be very, very succesful both from a critical stand point(reviews, ratings, player retention etc.) and a financial stand point.
GW2 may not be the next "big elephant in the room" but it IS going to change the industry.
I truly think when the masses of players see what is possible with just a box price and some cosmetic / convenience items in a store instead of F2P + B2Win cash shop (or sub fee for that matter) it's going to set a new industry standard.
Console gamers are used to box price + limited shop, PC gamers are used to box price + no sub fee, and MMO gamers are becoming (slowly) more used to the idea of not having a sub fee for a quality game, and their biggest beef with F2P is the "true cost" of playing the game is nothing but free.
B2P model is going to be an industry changer for the MMO sub-genre of PC gaming.
The Industry is stuck in a huge rut. what guild wars 2 will do is nothing more then provide people who have waited so many years the game they wanted.
At the end of the game day it's just another themepark with no monthly sub. if people enjoy it great. but it changes nothing for the genre. it won't kill Wow and it won't be a genre shaper.
The only thing about it is it allows the player to walk away after they hit the content wall and themepark burnout and return when they add more content and another 5 levels without the hassle of re-subbing which is like a 3 minute process with a credit card if it had it.
... You're right in thinking that ANet hasn't intentionally hyped their own product like SWTOR did, BUT you're neglecting the fact that the fanbase has been trying to bill GW2 as the second coming for MMOs (ie: consumer generated hype). Trying to modify the definition for your own purposes doesn't exactly fit well in this kind of discussion.
You're refering to the GW2 fanboys. GW2 is different enough that - if it garners huge monetary success - it will have a decent chance at influencing the industry, much like WoW did in the past.
But when you encounter someone who declares this chance to be a certainty, then you know you're dealing with a fanboy, and again, I can't speak for them.
I actually can already state this, its already stateable. if the ciriteria is influcencing the industry then it has how many 3 sided pvp has we seen announced just this year for games just startign development <1 year, 2,3,4 ? ... I mean thats enough right there now you can say this is nothing new.. and thats 100% true this is a daoc feature.. that almost no one would risk taking the time to implement... until now, that it has been shown feesable today and conceptually popular (they have always know it to be actually effective from daoc).
Now to claim it will have the SAME effect or domminate the industry as much as wow did.. thats a fanboy. To state what is already an observable fact however is not. Heck look at WoW it has already taken and ported 3-4 abilities right from GW2. That should be enough said in itself.
Reguardless, gw2 will not the the amazing game everyone is looking for .. good fun, good pvp, fun play. NOT EPIC (well save WvWvW), WITHOUT A DOUBT. it lacks diversity of roles, it eqiupment system will attacked less than 15% of typical mmo players, it is not open world, it lacks end game pve content that is elite, amoungst other glaring issues.
Still the game is fun, which cannot hardly be said of most mmos for a long time.
Edit - sorry for ths misspellings, and anyone who thought swtor was going to be anything... well was lieing to themselves anyone with two eyes knew better.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
The Industry is stuck in a huge rut. what guild wars 2 will do is nothing more then provide people who have waited so many years the game they wanted.
At the end of the game day it's just another themepark with no monthly sub. if people enjoy it great. but it changes nothing for the genre. it won't kill Wow and it won't be a genre shaper.
The only thing about it is it allows the player to walk away after they hit the content wall and themepark burnout and return when they add more content and another 5 levels without the hassle of re-subbing which is like a 3 minute process with a credit card if it had it.
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by MattVid
They seem to be putting a high value and focus on exploration, which is totally unlike any theme park MMO
thats my favorite part of GW2
I agree, but as usual quite a few people think I'm attacking GW2 so they feel the need to overly defend it with hostility. That's fine, I understand the need, but it's not what should be taken away from the overall message !.
The problem I have is that this USED to be a large part of what an MMO was. Nowadays it's all about someone else's pre-defined story that you really have no connection to, but are forced to play through it like it should matter or that it's like some kind of book.
I however do enjoy the fact this sort of gameplay is returning !
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
That seems to be your problem, or perhaps your problem is with "similarities" and the word "cloning". Where did I say GW2 was a clone of GW1? No where, not a single spot. I said they were similar for obvious reasons, and GW2 was GW1 on steroids because it was built for the FANS of GW1 as a propr sequel. Again, people seem to have the misconception that "on steroids" == horrible clone?????
No, the problem lies in your choice of words and the misconceptions they bring. When you say "B is A on steroids", that gives the impression that "B" is simply a beefed up version of "A". (See Mark McGuire early and later in his career.) You give the false impression that GW2 is a heavily instanced CORPG as GW1 is, which couldn't be further from the truth. That's where the problem lies... what's implied from the statement.
GW2 IS a "beefed up version" of GW1. Perhaps it's the misunderstanding, or personal opinion, of what certain words mean? After all it is very hard to get the overally "emotion" behind an online post. When I see a 1995 Ford Mustang compared to a 2010 Ford Mustang I think "WoW, they really improved on the old for the fans of the old with the new!". All the while everything between the two was reworked, but generally is the same car.
GW2 is no different, and the expression "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" was a compliment meant to show appreciation that it was made with GW1 in mind as its source. Maybe you're too tighly wound up over people being negative about GW2?
/shrug
GW2 is completely different than GW1 besides the IP. Your car example simply doesn't work because mechanically a lot of things between a 95 mustang and a 2010 mustang are very similar as well as ultimately driving similarly.
I think his car example works well. The 2010 will cost a hell of a lot more than the 95'. Just like GW2 will cost a hell of a lot more than GW1.
I actually can already state this, its already stateable. if the ciriteria is influcencing the industry then it has how many 3 sided pvp has we seen announced just this year for games just startign development <1 year, 2,3,4 ? ... I mean thats enough right there now you can say this is nothing new.. and thats 100% true this is a daoc feature.. that almost no one would risk taking the time to implement... until now, that it has been shown feesable today and conceptually popular (they have always know it to be actually effective from daoc).
Now to claim it will have the SAME effect or domminate the industry as much as wow did.. thats a fanboy. To state what is already an observable fact however is not. Heck look at WoW it has already taken and ported 3-4 abilities right from GW2. That should be enough said in itself.
Reguardless, gw2 will not the the amazing game everyone is looking for .. good fun, good pvp, fun play. NOT EPIC (well save WvWvW), WITHOUT A DOUBT. it lacks diversity of roles, it eqiupment system will attacked less than 15% of typical mmo players, it is not open world, it lacks end game pve content that is elite, amoungst other glaring issues.
Still the game is fun, which cannot hardly be said of most mmos for a long time.
Edit - sorry for ths misspellings, and anyone who thought swtor was going to be anything... well was lieing to themselves anyone with two eyes knew better.
Open word giant bosses?
What about the non MMORPG games that dislike gear grind?
Not open world?
Non elite content? Hello explorer mode dungeons?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
That seems to be your problem, or perhaps your problem is with "similarities" and the word "cloning". Where did I say GW2 was a clone of GW1? No where, not a single spot. I said they were similar for obvious reasons, and GW2 was GW1 on steroids because it was built for the FANS of GW1 as a propr sequel. Again, people seem to have the misconception that "on steroids" == horrible clone?????
No, the problem lies in your choice of words and the misconceptions they bring. When you say "B is A on steroids", that gives the impression that "B" is simply a beefed up version of "A". (See Mark McGuire early and later in his career.) You give the false impression that GW2 is a heavily instanced CORPG as GW1 is, which couldn't be further from the truth. That's where the problem lies... what's implied from the statement.
GW2 IS a "beefed up version" of GW1. Perhaps it's the misunderstanding, or personal opinion, of what certain words mean? After all it is very hard to get the overally "emotion" behind an online post. When I see a 1995 Ford Mustang compared to a 2010 Ford Mustang I think "WoW, they really improved on the old for the fans of the old with the new!". All the while everything between the two was reworked, but generally is the same car.
GW2 is no different, and the expression "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" was a compliment meant to show appreciation that it was made with GW1 in mind as its source. Maybe you're too tighly wound up over people being negative about GW2?
/shrug
GW2 is completely different than GW1 besides the IP. Your car example simply doesn't work because mechanically a lot of things between a 95 mustang and a 2010 mustang are very similar as well as ultimately driving similarly.
I think his car example works well. The 2010 will cost a hell of a lot more than the 95'. Just like GW2 will cost a hell of a lot more than GW1.
Right, but my car example was meant as a point towards Increased Quality, Care, Attention to Detail, and improvements over the former more than a pricepoint example although true in and of itself as well.
I disagree completely that they're "completely different" because if they were it wouldn't be called "GuildWars 2". Just my side of things !
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I actually can already state this, its already stateable. if the ciriteria is influcencing the industry then it has how many 3 sided pvp has we seen announced just this year for games just startign development <1 year, 2,3,4 ? ... I mean thats enough right there now you can say this is nothing new.. and thats 100% true this is a daoc feature.. that almost no one would risk taking the time to implement... until now, that it has been shown feesable today and conceptually popular (they have always know it to be actually effective from daoc).
Now to claim it will have the SAME effect or domminate the industry as much as wow did.. thats a fanboy. To state what is already an observable fact however is not. Heck look at WoW it has already taken and ported 3-4 abilities right from GW2. That should be enough said in itself.
Reguardless, gw2 will not the the amazing game everyone is looking for .. good fun, good pvp, fun play. NOT EPIC (well save WvWvW), WITHOUT A DOUBT. it lacks diversity of roles, it eqiupment system will attacked less than 15% of typical mmo players, it is not open world, it lacks end game pve content that is elite, amoungst other glaring issues.
Still the game is fun, which cannot hardly be said of most mmos for a long time.
Edit - sorry for ths misspellings, and anyone who thought swtor was going to be anything... well was lieing to themselves anyone with two eyes knew better.
Open word giant bosses?
What about the non MMORPG games that dislike gear grind?
Not open world?
Non elite content? Hello explorer mode dungeons?
Generally "open world" means no instances, and more has to do with the ability to interact with a non-instanced world system such as placing houses etc than anything else.
Dungeons are instanced, and not open.
Housing is also city-instanced, and not part of the open world.
However, I believe that was merely his point.
While I DO agree that GW2 is far more "open" than its predecessor it still has some ways to go to be truly "Open World".
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Just about every mmo since Wow has sold well at launch but has died within 6 months. GW2 will be no different.
I'm not completely convinced of that just yet as the average gamer for GW2 seems more mature (or at least the ones that don't frequent the forums too much). However, I predict GW2 will be a decently sustained title for a couple years, but it won't be anything epic or massive to speak of.
/shrug
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I have tryed to read through this thread that really have went crazy. I would have like if OP had contributed with more argument and less oppinions about his points. And while vigour have been shown by OP, i am in doubt if this thread coulden't just as well have been locked, for not really contributing to a discussion but just stating oppinions.
As an exsample I would like to discuss the headline
"GW2 will be seen as successful due to box sales only, doesn't mean it's an industry changer. "
thats a claim and an oppinion. But is it right?
The ones deciding if its a industry changer is the industry that is going to evaluate if they are going to let GW2 set standards for their own upcomming games. Are they going to use boxsales as a measure ? yes ofcause what else should they use when there is no subscribtion. offcause we can't expect that what fans see as succefull is going to match when the industry takes note. But if it is going to be an idustry changer it WILL be due succesfull enough boxsales. Thats how it is
But is there reason to expect a industry changer? That could be discussed instead of OP's wild claims. Here we could have looked at features, innovation, polish, and design. Instead OP claims it's all hype.
As usual when we get in this direction on this board i direct attention to this old thread by meowhead
that actual gives some good explanation on why GW2 is innovative. And thats properly alot better place to take this discussion from, than the RANT that OP came with.
Now don´t get me worng, I don´t say that GW2 will '' do '' anything. However, it can do much, in my opinion as I have worked in the mmo-industry and kinda know the situation there. There is a chance but nothing is sure. If GW2 '' want '' to be the best, it will reach that through the gameplay etc, nd the B2P thingy will not matter here.
If you worked in the industry, then there is no way you worked on game design. Business model means everything, since the P2W model forces developers to design game mechanics so they can be monetized. If GW2 is a B2P MMO, then why is there a CS? Simple answer is it is P2W.
Added this guy to the ignore list lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
"GW2 will be seen as successful due to box sales only" i will slap u in the face for saying that. It is successful due to not just only box sales, it is due to all the contents that the game has to offer. Fuck of yeah?
And in case you missed it OP, P2P game sell boxes. They most of their investement back like any B2P would. The difference is, the P2P keeps gettin money after that, which is usually more usefull.
Which is my entire point, or did you NOT read my thread as your post seems to indicate?
I pointed out that P2P games also do box sales, but GW2 is ONLY doing box sales which in itself is not a measure of pure success. However, people will still shout "SUCCESS!" simply because it's B2P, but that isn't true simply because they're planning to milk GW2 with cash-shops as their form of subscriptions.
Pff. That's just plaing stupid. So you sir are saying that if a certain game isn't P2P it ain't successful?
I think his intention with that is to say that no matter how many boxes it sells, we can never call it successful. I think, after reading all of his posts, he is afraid that everyone is going to see 5 million copies sold in the first month and that people will proclaim it as being successful. So he makes excuses like, "it's all the GW1 players that bought GW1 spread out over 7 years", etc.
If GW2 sells some stupid number of boxes like 5 million in the first month (probably not happening), he doesn't want people to be able to proclaim, "COMPLETE SUCCESS ON ALL COUNTS." It seems like he feels like it's not fair because they don't have to release sub numbers.
That makes a lot of sense. Seems to be true.
Though Faded, if what you mean GW1 on steriods, what I'd say is, if you take a lot of the quests from GW1 and chain them together, and put them in the open world you might or will have Dynamic Events.
Skill bar usage
PVP with no gear grind
Able to make a PVP character only in GW 2 you just use your PVE character
There might be more things. The only issue is GW 2 is still very different from GW 1, by far lmao.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Comments
Pff. That's just plaing stupid. So you sir are saying that if a certain game isn't P2P it ain't successful?
Music is the science of manipulating people trough sound.
Similarly, there are comments that can't be made here simply because you don't have the experience I do with Alphas, Betas, and Retail releases over the years to detail everything out into a nice little explanation. However, the points i raised are not impossible to outline, and are simply lazy excuses to shoot down someone else's points.
Nothing I outlined is "too hard to explain" if you know enough about them.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
What are you talking about?! I said nothing of the sort. Did you not read what I said??
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Couldn't play SWG on a windows95 machine with greater than 5fps. I tried, believe me!
EQ also lagged like HELL on a Windows95 machine all the while WoW could play on the same machine at around 25fps.
Tons of games Pre-2004 couldn't run on a 95 machine, but did amazingly on XP machines with decent hardware. Everquest also released 5 years prior to 2004, and was designed for windows95.
Did YOU play games prior to 2004
? I kid I kid, but you get my point 
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I think his intention with that is to say that no matter how many boxes it sells, we can never call it successful. I think, after reading all of his posts, he is afraid that everyone is going to see 5 million copies sold in the first month and that people will proclaim it as being successful. So he makes excuses like, "it's all the GW1 players that bought GW1 spread out over 7 years", etc.
If GW2 sells some stupid number of boxes like 5 million in the first month (probably not happening), he doesn't want people to be able to proclaim, "COMPLETE SUCCESS ON ALL COUNTS." It seems like he feels like it's not fair because they don't have to release sub numbers.
GW2 is completely different than GW1 besides the IP. Your car example simply doesn't work because mechanically a lot of things between a 95 mustang and a 2010 mustang are very similar as well as ultimately driving similarly. Dynamic events are a huge portion of the game and GW1 didn't even have them. GW2 is open world which creates a completely different gameplay experience. WvW is a big draw for some and GW1 didn't have it. GW2 didn't improve GW1 mechanics, they completely changed them and added more.
It isn't about being tightly wound, it just gives the impression that you have no idea what you're talking about(sounds rude I know), so people can assume everything else you've said is also false. To try and show how absurd the comment is, it's like saying a boeing 747 is like a mustang on steroids. Now would you trust anything else I had to say about a Boeing 747 if I thought it was like a beefed up car?
i agree SOE newer games - and only 2 -- SWG and EQ2 were mmo beasts for computer spec
but you cannot generalize the mmo market on those 2 games among a dozen others
care to list other early mmos that did not support windows95?
EQ2 fan sites
Exactly. Btw this is most useless thread ever.
Music is the science of manipulating people trough sound.
You kind of miss the big picture Faded.
GW2 is going to be proof that you can make a MMO that isn't WoW, that doesn't have the subscription model, and still be very, very succesful both from a critical stand point(reviews, ratings, player retention etc.) and a financial stand point.
GW2 may not be the next "big elephant in the room" but it IS going to change the industry.
I truly think when the masses of players see what is possible with just a box price and some cosmetic / convenience items in a store instead of F2P + B2Win cash shop (or sub fee for that matter) it's going to set a new industry standard.
Console gamers are used to box price + limited shop, PC gamers are used to box price + no sub fee, and MMO gamers are becoming (slowly) more used to the idea of not having a sub fee for a quality game, and their biggest beef with F2P is the "true cost" of playing the game is nothing but free.
B2P model is going to be an industry changer for the MMO sub-genre of PC gaming.
The Industry is stuck in a huge rut. what guild wars 2 will do is nothing more then provide people who have waited so many years the game they wanted.
At the end of the game day it's just another themepark with no monthly sub. if people enjoy it great. but it changes nothing for the genre. it won't kill Wow and it won't be a genre shaper.
The only thing about it is it allows the player to walk away after they hit the content wall and themepark burnout and return when they add more content and another 5 levels without the hassle of re-subbing which is like a 3 minute process with a credit card if it had it.
thats my favorite part of GW2
EQ2 fan sites
No holy trinity, and it works. That's all that needs to be said, the end...
I actually can already state this, its already stateable. if the ciriteria is influcencing the industry then it has how many 3 sided pvp has we seen announced just this year for games just startign development <1 year, 2,3,4 ? ... I mean thats enough right there now you can say this is nothing new.. and thats 100% true this is a daoc feature.. that almost no one would risk taking the time to implement... until now, that it has been shown feesable today and conceptually popular (they have always know it to be actually effective from daoc).
Now to claim it will have the SAME effect or domminate the industry as much as wow did.. thats a fanboy. To state what is already an observable fact however is not. Heck look at WoW it has already taken and ported 3-4 abilities right from GW2. That should be enough said in itself.
Reguardless, gw2 will not the the amazing game everyone is looking for .. good fun, good pvp, fun play. NOT EPIC (well save WvWvW), WITHOUT A DOUBT. it lacks diversity of roles, it eqiupment system will attacked less than 15% of typical mmo players, it is not open world, it lacks end game pve content that is elite, amoungst other glaring issues.
Still the game is fun, which cannot hardly be said of most mmos for a long time.
Edit - sorry for ths misspellings, and anyone who thought swtor was going to be anything... well was lieing to themselves anyone with two eyes knew better.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I agree, but as usual quite a few people think I'm attacking GW2 so they feel the need to overly defend it with hostility. That's fine, I understand the need, but it's not what should be taken away from the overall message
!.
The problem I have is that this USED to be a large part of what an MMO was. Nowadays it's all about someone else's pre-defined story that you really have no connection to, but are forced to play through it like it should matter or that it's like some kind of book.
I however do enjoy the fact this sort of gameplay is returning
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I think his car example works well. The 2010 will cost a hell of a lot more than the 95'. Just like GW2 will cost a hell of a lot more than GW1.
Open word giant bosses?
What about the non MMORPG games that dislike gear grind?
Not open world?
Non elite content? Hello explorer mode dungeons?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Right, but my car example was meant as a point towards Increased Quality, Care, Attention to Detail, and improvements over the former more than a pricepoint example although true in and of itself as well.
I disagree completely that they're "completely different" because if they were it wouldn't be called "GuildWars 2". Just my side of things
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Just about every mmo since Wow has sold well at launch but has died within 6 months. GW2 will be no different.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Generally "open world" means no instances, and more has to do with the ability to interact with a non-instanced world system such as placing houses etc than anything else.
Dungeons are instanced, and not open.
Housing is also city-instanced, and not part of the open world.
However, I believe that was merely his point.
While I DO agree that GW2 is far more "open" than its predecessor it still has some ways to go to be truly "Open World".
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I'm not completely convinced of that just yet as the average gamer for GW2 seems more mature (or at least the ones that don't frequent the forums too much). However, I predict GW2 will be a decently sustained title for a couple years, but it won't be anything epic or massive to speak of.
/shrug
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I have tryed to read through this thread that really have went crazy. I would have like if OP had contributed with more argument and less oppinions about his points. And while vigour have been shown by OP, i am in doubt if this thread coulden't just as well have been locked, for not really contributing to a discussion but just stating oppinions.
As an exsample I would like to discuss the headline
"GW2 will be seen as successful due to box sales only, doesn't mean it's an industry changer. "
thats a claim and an oppinion. But is it right?
The ones deciding if its a industry changer is the industry that is going to evaluate if they are going to let GW2 set standards for their own upcomming games. Are they going to use boxsales as a measure ? yes ofcause what else should they use when there is no subscribtion. offcause we can't expect that what fans see as succefull is going to match when the industry takes note. But if it is going to be an idustry changer it WILL be due succesfull enough boxsales. Thats how it is
But is there reason to expect a industry changer? That could be discussed instead of OP's wild claims. Here we could have looked at features, innovation, polish, and design. Instead OP claims it's all hype.
As usual when we get in this direction on this board i direct attention to this old thread by meowhead
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/336987/The-Tao-of-Arenanet.html
that actual gives some good explanation on why GW2 is innovative. And thats properly alot better place to take this discussion from, than the RANT that OP came with.
Added this guy to the ignore list lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
That makes a lot of sense. Seems to be true.
Though Faded, if what you mean GW1 on steriods, what I'd say is, if you take a lot of the quests from GW1 and chain them together, and put them in the open world you might or will have Dynamic Events.
Skill bar usage
PVP with no gear grind
Able to make a PVP character only in GW 2 you just use your PVE character
There might be more things. The only issue is GW 2 is still very different from GW 1, by far lmao.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Very true. Yet in still I did what i said lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.