Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

YOU are the Hero (not the other thousand guys you see)

2»

Comments

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    Originally posted by Loke666

    The whole MMO economy is indeed very interesting and deserves it´s own thread. SWG did some things right but also many things wrong (did you read the link I posted?).

    I agree that the way rare items are made really doesn´t work to make things feel personal in most MMOs.

    But if you want to discuss economy,  create it´s own thread instead of discussing it in the GW2 forum, at best it is off topic here.

    Yeah I just finished reading it, thanks for link, good read. Sounds a lot like the 1-percenter's stories in EVE online actually.

    Yeah but anyways, enough of the econ stuff, back to the topic at hand.

     

     

  • hundejahrehundejahre Member Posts: 339

    quote: "Everything you do is suppose to be one of a kind, but you know that there's a good hundred or so other people who are going through the exact same events, also being told they were the only ones."

    And when I play a single player game, I know there are a good hundred (or million) other people who are going through the exact same events... I'm sorry this is how you had to learn you aren't a snowflake. You didn't really expect a once in a lifetime, unique experience for $60 did you?

  • GrahorGrahor Member Posts: 828
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I would love to see a MMO that actually had someone competent in real world economics that made the crafting and economical mechanics. It could be very interesting.

     

    Yeah, I would be interested to actually see someone competent in real world economics in real life, you know!

     

    Now almost all games have an inflation that are similar to Germany in the roaring 20s because in MMOs you get money for nothing besides time and there is no real limit to how much money you can get besides how long time it takes you to get it.

    In the real world there is a limited amount of money and you need someone to spend money for you to get them, unless you are a private gold miner and it is really hard to live on that. For many reasons it is hard to make an economy in a game that are similar to that.

     

    THIS IS NOT HOW ECONOMICS WORK! In real world you have money sources in form of printing press and government-funded projects and money sinks in form of taxes; that's how you keep the balance of the economy and stop it from runaway inflation; it is supported by the faith - faith in money, faith in government, etc. Money sinks are essential to any economy. Unfortunately, most mmorpgs don't have any.

    I never seen a MMO with a good economical system and I have been playing since M59. :(

    EVE. They have economists working on their economic system. And writing papers about it...

     

  • friednietzfriednietz Member Posts: 118

    It doesn't break my immersion knowing that everyone else's characters are experiencing the same "special" treatment that my characters are. I've always thought the fantasy of the genre is a bevy of adventurers trying to go from zeroes to heroes. The path to getting there is what makes it personal.

    Still, I agree with those that can't be arsed about storymode in MMOs. But hey, at least this game is ridiculously fun to play even if you ignore the storyline.

  • seridanseridan Member UncommonPosts: 1,202
    Originally posted by ZenonSeth

    So, in a lot of MMOs, including the original GW, the focus of almost every quest is that YOU (or your present group) go and save the world from some badass evil. Not the thousands of others playing, no. You. I always thought the idea of the player as The Hero, and massivly multiplayer didn't mix too well. In fact, I think of these as totally contradictory to each other. Just doesn't work well. It's one of the reasons I generally stay away from MMOs.

    GW2's DE system is something different in that respect. You get to play along others in an event where you are actually, canonically, suppose to fight along side other players, and it's not just "you" that defeated the big evil comin' to take over town. That's great!

    Ah, but then we have personal stories. Ok, ignoring the initial instance/cutscene that each race gets (I mean, as an introductory concept, that can be forgiven), the personal stories take palce in entirely instanced areas. Everything you do is suppose to be one of a kind, but you know that there's a good hundred or so other people who are going through the exact same events, also being told they were the only ones. Hell, I even helped a friend of mine on his own personal story, and while different, he met with some of the same characters who, having a few minutes ago called me a hero, now totally ignored me.

    Yeah, sure, I realize that it's pretty impossible (perhaps, just hard to imagine) a non-instanced personal story, where your decisions affect everyone else in the world. But I thought that was what GW2 was going for, right? They did a bang up job with DEs, making things more cooperative, and kill sharing. But the Personal stories just don't seem to do any of that. And what was that recent post? If you can't do something well, don't do it at all. Yeah, I know it's kinda harsh, but it's their goals.

    I'm not saying that personal stories aren't fun, or entertaining to some degree. I'm just saying that in a dynamic world where things are actually suppose to change, instanced missions, and entire instanced areas of the city, don't quite fit in. Yeah, they're not going to change the personal stories after having put so much work into them, but I'm entitled to my rant once in a while!

    Well there people who like that in a game. I like being the hero even in MMORPGs, I find them no different in that regard to single player games. Why should I play a simple pawn? The reason those why those stories exist in most MMOs is because people maybe like to be heroes? I never liked Skyrim or any of the TES series, they have weak storylines and even weaker roleplaying potential. Whenever I RP I want a full fleshed character with lots of background/friends/family/enemies and a Personal Story does exactly that. True it's very restricted (only 3 background choices) but I find it better than being a nobody.

    Non instanced Personal Story is impossible if they want them to be, you know, STORIES. And those stories are to be experienced by many people, I can't see a way of that changing.

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Since the vast majority of all MMO players have been trained to ignore the rest of humanity and plow through new levels as quickly as possible, this is barely an issue for some.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • HomituHomitu Member UncommonPosts: 2,030

    We must confront the fundamental hypocracy of touting one's own character as a somehow unique, elite hero amidst thousands of peers who have achieved the exact same accomplishments in nearly every MMO.  GW2 is no different.  It's largely an issue that must be dealt with internally in your own mind.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Grahor
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I would love to see a MMO that actually had someone competent in real world economics that made the crafting and economical mechanics. It could be very interesting.

     

    Yeah, I would be interested to actually see someone competent in real world economics in real life, you know!

     

    Now almost all games have an inflation that are similar to Germany in the roaring 20s because in MMOs you get money for nothing besides time and there is no real limit to how much money you can get besides how long time it takes you to get it.

    In the real world there is a limited amount of money and you need someone to spend money for you to get them, unless you are a private gold miner and it is really hard to live on that. For many reasons it is hard to make an economy in a game that are similar to that.

     

    THIS IS NOT HOW ECONOMICS WORK! In real world you have money sources in form of printing press and government-funded projects and money sinks in form of taxes; that's how you keep the balance of the economy and stop it from runaway inflation; it is supported by the faith - faith in money, faith in government, etc. Money sinks are essential to any economy. Unfortunately, most mmorpgs don't have any.

    I never seen a MMO with a good economical system and I have been playing since M59. :(

    EVE. They have economists working on their economic system. And writing papers about it...

    I didn´t know that about Eve, it will be very interesting to see how they make WoDOs economy....

    and yes, I simplified stuff too much (to not put a huge wall of off topic text)  but taxes are not really the same as goldsinks. There are 2 important things in real economy.

    1. The coins value. they are based on how much gold a countrys central banl own, the countrys economical ratings, stock, trust in what the coin is worth and how much investors buy and sell of it (yeah, that is also a simplification).

    2. The movement of coins. The coins need to change hands or there will be trouble. If people just keep the money without spending it the whole economical system will collapse. I guess that is what you call "goldsinks" since you want players to exchange coins all the time.

    The problem with MMOs however is that you get more and more money out of nowhere and try to fix that by having moneysinks that goes to nowhere too and that is more or less impossible to get balanced. Either you usually get a huge inflation or all noobs are constantly broke.

    The whole idea that an unlimited spawning mob will drop certain amounts of gold makes manipulating the economy a nightmare for the devs.

    A more realistically economical system works best in sandbox games where most or all gear is playercrafted and few or none mobs go around and drop gold, in a game like GW2 that is more focused on PvE battles it is almost (but not entirely) impossible.

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence Member UncommonPosts: 565
    Originally posted by Homitu

    We must confront the fundamental hypocracy of touting one's own character as a somehow unique, elite hero amidst thousands of peers who have achieved the exact same accomplishments in nearly every MMO.  GW2 is no different.  It's largely an issue that must be dealth with internally in your own mind.

    I think TSW is a good example that it doesn't have to be this way. TSW has no "personal" story at all afaik, it's all about the world's story. It never tries to make players feel like heroic snowflakes. And people complain about various issues with TSW - but not feeling "heroic" enough isn't one of them.

    Hype train -> Reality

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    Well that's just it. In GW2 the single player hero story seems to be 100% optional aside from the first intro mission. So it's there for the people that want it and the people that don't can avoid it.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence
    Originally posted by Homitu

    We must confront the fundamental hypocracy of touting one's own character as a somehow unique, elite hero amidst thousands of peers who have achieved the exact same accomplishments in nearly every MMO.  GW2 is no different.  It's largely an issue that must be dealth with internally in your own mind.

    I think TSW is a good example that it doesn't have to be this way. TSW has no "personal" story at all afaik, it's all about the world's story. It never tries to make players feel like heroic snowflakes. And people complain about various issues with TSW - but not feeling "heroic" enough isn't one of them.

    Lol, give them some time and they will complain. ;)

    But yeah, as I said before, "massive multiplayer games" is about massive multiplaying, if you want a game about you then a singleplayer game is best, and if you want it about you and your close friends a CORPG is the best choice.

    Few people in the world ever was epic heroes and most of them are just myths, the person behind the mask were rarely so epic as the later stories tells us. And yeah, there are exceptions, like Manfred Von Richtoffen in WW1 aerial combat but they are few and far between. A game like GW2 can't really make a few players epic and the rest between anyways, that rarely works for MMOs and would destroy GW2s PvP altogether.

    You are one of Tyrias heroes but there are a few thousands more 8on your server that is). Deal with it. :)

  • dageezadageeza Member Posts: 578

    Here is the way i see the hero thing in the field or DEs and even the WvW, i tend to feel that every time someone saves my ass or res me they are a hero, in this game we are all unsung hero's and in it together, taking the time to offer support and help others that are down or defeated is a heroic act in which can turn the tide of the battle in this game as well as forge new friendships..

    As far as the single player story personally i like it as a solo challenge but as others have said it really does not depict a truly personalized story with real choices or repercussions at least not up to last part you can do in the beta...

    I think right now its to early to really define how all of this is going to mesh out in the end based only off of the beta weekends until we get in the game with permanent toons and all the time we need to flesh it out..

    Playing GW2..

Sign In or Register to comment.