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RoybeRoybe Member UncommonPosts: 420

http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2#more-8680

Why am I looking forward to this game?

Because:

"We respect you—as a player, as a human being. This game we’re making may end up competing with your real life. It might fight for your free time alongside your friends, your family, your work, and whatever else you might be doing. Because of that, we want to give you a meaningful experience, not one that is a vapid waste of your time. Whatever your reasons for spending time in Tyria, we don’t want to waste it by doing stuff that isn’t fun."

Comments

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Member Posts: 1,156

    I actually like and agree with some of the parts of the blog, but don't get the quote.

  • ohpowerohpower Member Posts: 72

    Yeah, for people that have followed the game a lot, it isn't anything really new, but it keeps the hype up, gets a number of fantastic screenshots out, and keeps the waiting-heat at a viable level. :p

    But you're right to point out that Anet is able to do something P2P and even F2P RPGs cannot: not put pressure on the gamer's life by making his stay -on the short or long run- a too demanding one. That's a very big appeal to me also. And it doesn't mean those who spend time and dedication on the game won't get more out of it than me, but just that I'll get all I want out of it, whereas any MMORPG you don't spend a lot of time on, you just seem to always miss out on a great deal of things. You get fun and rewards for what the time you invest, even if you don't make your life out of it.

     

    ps: the quote means just that: the devs are thinking that our time is precious, not a sort of unlimited currency which is best when used up in large quantities (yes, all other devs seem to be thinking more, sometimes only, about people willing to spend a no-life week-end every week on their favorite game)

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence Member UncommonPosts: 565

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

    Hype train -> Reality

  • seridanseridan Member UncommonPosts: 1,202
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

    And the other half complained that the XP rates were very high and those who complained about the XP rates probably were doing something wrong, as it was discussed even here a few threads ago.

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • RoybeRoybe Member UncommonPosts: 420
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    I actually like and agree with some of the parts of the blog, but don't get the quote.

    Honestly, I'm finding more and more of the larger gaming companies are losing sight of the main thing that almost killed the gaming industry once, respect for the end user.  We, as gamers are making a very large choice with our lives....placing our time, and money, into these games.  When the industry looks at the game player as a paycheck, and one shots us with a crappy game (with wonderful advertisment, enticements, (i.e. unsubstantiated hype) etc.), we feel cheated...as we should.  Once this starts happening, the effect snowballs, until we stop buying games.  Leading to investors thinking that game manufacturing is a riskier endeavour than it is, which limits investment funds to create games, which leads to a downward spiral in the market that has occurred in the past. 

     

    We as gamers don't ask much image  just something that respects us enough to give the developers/publishers our currency, time, twice.  First when we worked to make the money, second, as we spend the time playing the game.

  • Rommie10-284Rommie10-284 Member UncommonPosts: 265

    The only thing I'd quibble about is the do it right or don't do it view.  I'm all for that in isolation, but I've seen more than one developer take it too far and leave out too many things that are expected in current MMOs. 

    It's great that the stuff you put your effort into works and looks very well - but that's also where the expectations lie nowadays.  The players also expect certain features in place, and if you skimped or ignored something because you prioritized something else, you'll get called on it.  Leaving stuff out doesn't fly anymore, no matter how good the things you worked on are done.

    In other words, developers are playing with fire when they decide what isn't needed in a game.  They better be damn sure the players don't think otherwise.

    Avatars are people too

  • xr00t3dxxr00t3dx Member Posts: 275
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

    /sigh

  • lilHealalilHeala Member UncommonPosts: 522
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

    Speed up the levelling for what? There's no race to level cap to start a dungeon / gear grind until the next patch.
    Also I've heard / read a lot more players saying the xp curve is ok like it is than those few loud ones complaining.

    If you're having trouble being at the intended level when going into the next zone you're just not doing it right. On all 4 my beta toons I left the first zone at a much higher level and I didn't go out to the other races starter zones. I just explored and checked all content instead of using the heart quests as a directional indicator and then just following objectives, you miss more than half the zone's content that way. Also I only started WvW from lvl10 on.

    Most people complaining about the xp curve are trying to play the game with the mindset of still being in those staple themepark mmo's which doesn't work, and missing out most of the content. It's the players that need to adjust, not the xp curve.

  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034

    The blog is very nice, i really like when developer take some time to write about the things they are doing and why they are doing it that way. I find it some much more interesting than reading about some dream that might never come to live as most dev usually do "the game will be like this and like that".

    Maybe that's because i'm being too old but i enjoy almost as much reading and speaking about games than playing them.

    The best part was the "take the risk", i just liked this part, i very much share this vision of what games are about. I think it can be seen in game too, i don't know if it's in the way you die, the difficulty or the progression the game ask you to learn, or maybe all that together, but i think it show in the game as well.

  • BorlucBorluc Member UncommonPosts: 255

    It takes a strong vision to make a good game and these guys have it.  Instead of putting a front man out there babbling about features he or she doesn't even understand, these guys take the time to really explain their philosophies to us. 

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Member Posts: 1,156
    Originally posted by Roybe
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    I actually like and agree with some of the parts of the blog, but don't get the quote.

    Honestly, I'm finding more and more of the larger gaming companies are losing sight of the main thing that almost killed the gaming industry once, respect for the end user.  We, as gamers are making a very large choice with our lives....placing our time, and money, into these games.  When the industry looks at the game player as a paycheck, and one shots us with a crappy game (with wonderful advertisment, enticements, (i.e. unsubstantiated hype) etc.), we feel cheated...as we should.  Once this starts happening, the effect snowballs, until we stop buying games.  Leading to investors thinking that game manufacturing is a riskier endeavour than it is, which limits investment funds to create games, which leads to a downward spiral in the market that has occurred in the past. 

     

    We as gamers don't ask much image  just something that respects us enough to give the developers/publishers our currency, time, twice.  First when we worked to make the money, second, as we spend the time playing the game.

    Huh? I literally have no idea what you're talking about. image Sorry OP.. I was asking is what that quote in your post is suppose to mean. Anet says they respect their players. What i'd like to know is how other devs don't do the same?

    Many companies i know off are actually quite awesome and nice, including them. However, i also know that behind those smiles are people who need to make money will try to find even the smallest way to milk extra money out of my pocket. Anet isn't any different, but i doesn't mean i hate them at all. I'm too carefull with my money almsot every time to get rip-off image

  • WolfynsongWolfynsong Member Posts: 237

    I'm starting to think that by the time GW2 launches, I'll have already read the entire "Making of GW2" book that comes with my Collector's Edition...

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 Member Posts: 568
    Originally posted by Roybe
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    I actually like and agree with some of the parts of the blog, but don't get the quote.

    Honestly, I'm finding more and more of the larger gaming companies are losing sight of the main thing that almost killed the gaming industry once, respect for the end user.  We, as gamers are making a very large choice with our lives....placing our time, and money, into these games.  When the industry looks at the game player as a paycheck, and one shots us with a crappy game (with wonderful advertisment, enticements, (i.e. unsubstantiated hype) etc.), we feel cheated...as we should.  Once this starts happening, the effect snowballs, until we stop buying games.  Leading to investors thinking that game manufacturing is a riskier endeavour than it is, which limits investment funds to create games, which leads to a downward spiral in the market that has occurred in the past. 

     

    We as gamers don't ask much image  just something that respects us enough to give the developers/publishers our currency, time, twice.  First when we worked to make the money, second, as we spend the time playing the game.

    i dont know what your talkin about,todays generation of "gamers" look more like crybabys then gamers

     

  • VagabondLifeVagabondLife Member Posts: 91
    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
    Originally posted by Roybe
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    I actually like and agree with some of the parts of the blog, but don't get the quote.

    Honestly, I'm finding more and more of the larger gaming companies are losing sight of the main thing that almost killed the gaming industry once, respect for the end user.  We, as gamers are making a very large choice with our lives....placing our time, and money, into these games.  When the industry looks at the game player as a paycheck, and one shots us with a crappy game (with wonderful advertisment, enticements, (i.e. unsubstantiated hype) etc.), we feel cheated...as we should.  Once this starts happening, the effect snowballs, until we stop buying games.  Leading to investors thinking that game manufacturing is a riskier endeavour than it is, which limits investment funds to create games, which leads to a downward spiral in the market that has occurred in the past. 

     

    We as gamers don't ask much image  just something that respects us enough to give the developers/publishers our currency, time, twice.  First when we worked to make the money, second, as we spend the time playing the game.

    i dont know what your talkin about,todays generation of "gamers" look more like crybabys then gamers

     

    And you enjoy calling other people names rather than having an adult discussion because of ...........??????

    Grow up.

  • RoybeRoybe Member UncommonPosts: 420
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
    Originally posted by Roybe
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    I actually like and agree with some of the parts of the blog, but don't get the quote.

    Honestly, I'm finding more and more of the larger gaming companies are losing sight of the main thing that almost killed the gaming industry once, respect for the end user.  We, as gamers are making a very large choice with our lives....placing our time, and money, into these games.  When the industry looks at the game player as a paycheck, and one shots us with a crappy game (with wonderful advertisment, enticements, (i.e. unsubstantiated hype) etc.), we feel cheated...as we should.  Once this starts happening, the effect snowballs, until we stop buying games.  Leading to investors thinking that game manufacturing is a riskier endeavour than it is, which limits investment funds to create games, which leads to a downward spiral in the market that has occurred in the past. 

     

    We as gamers don't ask much image  just something that respects us enough to give the developers/publishers our currency, time, twice.  First when we worked to make the money, second, as we spend the time playing the game.

    Huh? I literally have no idea what you're talking about. image Sorry OP.. I was asking is what that quote in your post is suppose to mean. Anet says they respect their players. What i'd like to know is how other devs don't do the same?

    Many companies i know off are actually quite awesome and nice, including them. However, i also know that behind those smiles are people who need to make money will try to find even the smallest way to milk extra money out of my pocket. Anet isn't any different, but i doesn't mean i hate them at all. I'm too carefull with my money almsot every time to get rip-off image

    To me there's 3 ways a company can make a profit on games.  First, they can do what players hate the most, but seem susceptible to buy into....create a false sense of hype, then drop a turd, and walk away.  Second, they can manipulate their game in such a way as to create a desire to play, make you feel guilty when you aren't playing it, set you behind the curve of players the longer you don't play it, when all the game is actually designed to do is continue to keep you playing so that you continue to feed the beast.  Finally, the company can make a game that allows you the freedom to live a life, without feeling guilty about not playing, without penalties for not being able to (or wanting to play), and lets you feel like you ARE playing...not working.

     

    The first two are actually very disrespectful to the player.  Yes, you can choose to NOT play a game, obviously it's not food, air, or water.  However, the design of the first two game types is basically putting profit before the customer. Neither really cares if the customer is happy or feels good about PLAYING (playing is about having fun), but the third is recognizing the importance of your customer and treating their choice respectfully.

     

    If people can't see this difference then we have definitely gone to far down the rabbit hole of what a GAME should and shouldn't be.

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence Member UncommonPosts: 565
    Originally posted by lilHeala
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

    Speed up the levelling for what? There's no race to level cap to start a dungeon / gear grind until the next patch.
     

    Speed up leveling to give players CHOICE - f.e. the choice to skip activites they don't enjoy, because that's just grinding and a waste of time, just like Anet says. Unfortunately, the truth is that GW2 plays like this: go to A, do all content, go to B, do all content, go to C, do all content... whether you like it or not. The irony is that it's not traditional MMO players who have a problem with the leveling in GW2 - it's players who like actual exploration, freedom and choice like f.e. Skyrim has. GW2 feels too much like a  traditional MMO and not enough like an open world RPG for my taste.

    Hype train -> Reality

  • seridanseridan Member UncommonPosts: 1,202
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Speed up leveling to give players CHOICE - f.e. the choice to skip activites they don't enjoy, because that's just grinding and a waste of time, just like Anet says. Unfortunately, the truth is that GW2 plays like this: go to A, do all content, go to B, do all content, go to C, do all content... whether you like it or not. The irony is that it's not traditional MMO players who have a problem with the leveling in GW2 - it's players who like actual exploration, freedom and choice like f.e. Skyrim has. GW2 feels too much like a  traditional MMO and not enough like an open world RPG for my taste.

    What do you want to skip and you can't?

    You can level up only by doing WvWvW, you can level up only by crafting, you can level up by doing all hearts and most DEs in a zone or you can mix them. Players who like actual exploration shouldn't have a problem leveling in the game, that's the kind of person who will find it perfect for him. If you actually explore the zone then you are ready to go to the next.

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • MosesZDMosesZD Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

     

    Really?   Not a single person in our guild said anything during beta or on the guild forums about leveling too slow.   I know some people whine about here on the forums.  But it certainly doesn't seem to be anywhere near 'half.'  Mostly, as far as I can see, the issue is people not playing the game as it is, but as if it is yet another WoW clone.  There's a lot more than hearts and doing one part of a four-part DE in an area.

     

    I played my Elementalist for about an hour on Stress Test 2.    Went from barely 17 to significantly over 18 in level.   And I really didn't do much.   I just practiced stringing kills for the bonus for about 10 minutes (it's about 200% more xp per kill if you can chain them), some DEs, some gathering and some exploring.   I didn't even get kill variety bonus for the day. 

     

    No hearts were done.   Two of the DEs were bronze because I got there pretty late.    And yet I got a level+ in XP...

     

    So I'm sticking with the same thing I've said since BWE1.   Play the game you're playing, not the game you came from.  This one is different enough that your least-effort to end-game XP pathing won't work right.

  • MosesZDMosesZD Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence
    Originally posted by lilHeala
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

    Speed up the levelling for what? There's no race to level cap to start a dungeon / gear grind until the next patch.
     

    Speed up leveling to give players CHOICE - f.e. the choice to skip activites they don't enjoy, because that's just grinding and a waste of time, just like Anet says. Unfortunately, the truth is that GW2 plays like this: go to A, do all content, go to B, do all content, go to C, do all content... whether you like it or not. The irony is that it's not traditional MMO players who have a problem with the leveling in GW2 - it's players who like actual exploration, freedom and choice like f.e. Skyrim has. GW2 feels too much like a  traditional MMO and not enough like an open world RPG for my taste.

     

    Not even true.   I'm totally an explorer.  Which is why I don't have the problem.   I find stuff nobody else does.   The people with the XP problems are the ones who follow the hearts and what ever easy-to-see DE is nearby.    Explorers don't have that problem unless they refuse to do whole swaths of the game, like crafting, gathering, hearts, DEs...

     

    Nothing personal, but if your complaint is that you should get enough XP to hit cap while only playing a small fraction of the game, the problem is you.   There's no AAA MMO (that I'm aware of) where you can skip 80% of the content and 'remain at level' for the area you migrate to...

  • SeleniteSelenite Member UncommonPosts: 38
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence
    Originally posted by lilHeala
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

    Speed up the levelling for what? There's no race to level cap to start a dungeon / gear grind until the next patch.
     

    Speed up leveling to give players CHOICE - f.e. the choice to skip activites they don't enjoy, because that's just grinding and a waste of time, just like Anet says. Unfortunately, the truth is that GW2 plays like this: go to A, do all content, go to B, do all content, go to C, do all content... whether you like it or not. The irony is that it's not traditional MMO players who have a problem with the leveling in GW2 - it's players who like actual exploration, freedom and choice like f.e. Skyrim has. GW2 feels too much like a  traditional MMO and not enough like an open world RPG for my taste.

    So a guy got to lvl 65 in 4 days (bw1 and 2) and I saw a lot of people running around with lvl 35-45 in the last beta already.

    So your telling me that the leveling is too slow for your? I'm pretty sure you can get max lvl in 1-2weeks and yet you still want to skip the journey? >__> People should just slow down, the world is big and there is more to do if you stop and look a round once in a while.

  • khamul787khamul787 Member UncommonPosts: 193
    Originally posted by Selenite
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence
    Originally posted by lilHeala
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Pretty words, but who cares? Half the beta players complained about the XP rates. Speed up the leveling, then we're talking.

    Speed up the levelling for what? There's no race to level cap to start a dungeon / gear grind until the next patch.
     

    Speed up leveling to give players CHOICE - f.e. the choice to skip activites they don't enjoy, because that's just grinding and a waste of time, just like Anet says. Unfortunately, the truth is that GW2 plays like this: go to A, do all content, go to B, do all content, go to C, do all content... whether you like it or not. The irony is that it's not traditional MMO players who have a problem with the leveling in GW2 - it's players who like actual exploration, freedom and choice like f.e. Skyrim has. GW2 feels too much like a  traditional MMO and not enough like an open world RPG for my taste.

    So a guy got to lvl 65 in 4 days (bw1 and 2) and I saw a lot of people running around with lvl 35-45 in the last beta already.

    So your telling me that the leveling is too slow for your? I'm pretty sure you can get max lvl in 1-2weeks and yet you still want to skip the journey? >__> People should just slow down, the world is big and there is more to do if you stop and look a round once in a while.

    Hell, some get to lvl 80 in the beta (several through an exploit in WvW, but at least 2 who did it by just playing). This some of the fastest leveling I've seen in an MMO and the thought of speeding it up more just confuzzles me.

    I got to lvl 36 in the beta in about 30 hours of playing. I fully completed two cities and Queensdale. I did about 80% of Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. I crafted to lvl 120 in one profession and 40 in another. I never repeated a single DE except for the shadow behemoth (because he was fucking awesome). I did maybe 20% of the rest of the maps. I didn't even touch PvP. I spend at least 6 of these hours just standing around talking, playing another character, or eating, etc. 

    Long story short, leveling is *not* too slow. I'm not entirely sure what kind of crazy fast leveling these people want, but I've never leveled faster (and in more diverse ways) in an MMO in my life.

    image

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