An mmoRPG that makes me actually feel like I did when I played EQ, Ultima, Asheron's Call, and Dark Age of Camelot.
A time machine?
back to the future online.
anyone?
More like "back to my childhood online".
~Or if that doesn't apply "back to my honeymoon phase online".
People will eventually get over their jilted sense of nostalgia, or they will blame the world eternally for "being shitty".
Oh man, the developers at ABC mediocrity need more folks like you. If you actually believe what you typed, then I've got 1,000 Asian grinders for you to cash shop in.
Let me explain nostalgia to you, and I don't know you or if you were ever there ten years ago and playing end game in the titles I listed, but nostalgia occurs because the community for one was based on the folks mmorpgs were once designed for. Communities reflected intelligent products, just like an author such as George RR Martin might attract top notch producers.
Crap attracts crap, mediocrity attracts mediocrity, mmorpgs that were intelligently designed, attracted an intelligent player base that was socially adept enough to create a community that in turn has caused many of us who were there to feel nostalgia.
I can't expect you to understand. But know that in ten years, no one is going to wipe a tear over the glory days they had in SWTOR or GW2. No one's going to care about those titles. So I'll take nostalgia any day and any developer company in the mmorpg genre that tries to create a title with similar quality.
An mmoRPG that makes me actually feel like I did when I played EQ, Ultima, Asheron's Call, and Dark Age of Camelot.
A time machine?
back to the future online.
anyone?
More like "back to my childhood online".
~Or if that doesn't apply "back to my honeymoon phase online".
People will eventually get over their jilted sense of nostalgia, or they will blame the world eternally for "being shitty".
Oh man, the developers at ABC mediocrity need more folks like you. If you actually believe what you typed, then I've got 1,000 Asian grinders for you to cash shop in.
Let me explain nostalgia to you, and I don't know you or if you were ever there ten years ago and playing end game in the titles I listed, but nostalgia occurs because the community for one was based on the folks mmorpgs were once designed for. Communities reflected intelligent products, just like an author such as George RR Martin might attract top notch producers. Crap attracts crap, mediocrity attracts mediocrity, mmorpgs that were intelligently designed, attracted an intelligent player base that was socially adept enough to create a community that in turn has caused many of us who were there to feel nostalgia.
I can't expect you to understand. But know that in ten years, no one is going to wipe a tear over the glory days they had in SWTOR or GW2. No one's going to care about those titles. So I'll take nostalgia any day and any title that tries to create a title with similar quality.
Uh huh, coming from a guy that supports TESO simply because of some need to relive 3-faction PvP from his DAoC days.
Be sure to tell us about how you think it's not up to snuff on your first encounter with it, we expect as much.
~and my nostalgia days were spent in UO and SWG, respectively. I play Wurm now.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
An mmoRPG that makes me actually feel like I did when I played EQ, Ultima, Asheron's Call, and Dark Age of Camelot.
A time machine?
back to the future online.
anyone?
More like "back to my childhood online".
~Or if that doesn't apply "back to my honeymoon phase online".
People will eventually get over their jilted sense of nostalgia, or they will blame the world eternally for "being shitty".
Oh man, the developers at ABC mediocrity need more folks like you. If you actually believe what you typed, then I've got 1,000 Asian grinders for you to cash shop in.
Let me explain nostalgia to you, and I don't know you or if you were ever there ten years ago and playing end game in the titles I listed, but nostalgia occurs because the community for one was based on the folks mmorpgs were once designed for. Communities reflected intelligent products, just like an author such as George RR Martin might attract top notch producers. Crap attracts crap, mediocrity attracts mediocrity, mmorpgs that were intelligently designed, attracted an intelligent player base that was socially adept enough to create a community that in turn has caused many of us who were there to feel nostalgia.
I can't expect you to understand. But know that in ten years, no one is going to wipe a tear over the glory days they had in SWTOR or GW2. No one's going to care about those titles. So I'll take nostalgia any day and any title that tries to create a title with similar quality.
Uh huh, coming from a guy that supports TESO simply because of some need to relive 3-faction PvP from his DAoC days.
Be sure to tell us about how you think it's not up to snuff on your first encounter with it, we expect as much.
While your reply was well thought out and a definite measure of your argument, I will simply say that I will enjoy ESO even if they can only produce 50% of what they are claiming. I for one, am tired of mediocrity, and I guarantee that there is a massive fan base of folks just like me who will be thankful that they finally have a place to log into without feeling like they are 12, or have to insert a quarter into a slot to keep their game on.
ESO is aimiing for mmoRPG quality and entertainment. This may not be for you, and that's of course, your choice. At least you have titles to choose from, I am just expressing my happiness in that I now will have a title to choose from as well.
What justifies paying a sub? Nothing. The one and only sub game I ever played was The 4th Coming. It did almost everthing thing right. No box fee, weekly server maint w/patches, mothly content updates, pvp only servers, pvp free servers, and servers where you could choose to turn on or off pvp. Thieves were actually thieves! Not warriors with lots of dodge, they could actually rob other players. What it did wrong was "must have" items in cash shop.
Since I stopped playing that game I've hopped around many F2P/P2W games. While F2P games include all/most of what OP listed, most are grind extreme. Almost all that I've played once you get to L40 or so missions dry up before you're anywhere close to halfway to your next level.
The one F2P game that I have high hopes for is Lime Odyssey. While the cash shop b.s. will likely be in full effect, the content of the game itself is simply beyond what even some box/sub games offer. Remember when the opening movie of a game was relevant to actual gameplay? LO's content has you actually following up on that opening scene. Crafting is well thought out, no grinding mob x (for hours) for needed drops. And crafting isn't limited to weapons/armor, you will be able to craft potions, housing, materials for housing. Plus the crafting isn't generalized, you choose a specific non combat job and level it along with your battle job. And you can further specialize that non combat job, for example a blacksmith can become a weapon smith or an armor smith.
With games like this that are free to download, have regular updates, good community, average response from trouble tickets, lots of features, good customization without having to buy anything, and cash shop that will have fluff and needed items (but not neccessary items); why should I pay a box/rental/sub fee?
edit: By the way, that sig? Screenshot from the first Alpha of LO, from the graphics alone you can tell this is more than just another cookie cutter MMORPG...
While your reply was well thought out and a definite measure of your argument, I will simply say that I will enjoy ESO even if they can only produce 50% of what they are claiming. I for one, am tired of mediocrity, and I guarantee that there is a massive fan base of folks just like me who will be thankful that they finally have a place to log into without feeling like they are 12, or have to insert a quarter into a slot to keep their game on.
ESO is aimiing for mmoRPG quality and entertainment. This may not be for you, and that's of course, your choice. At least you have titles to choose from, I am just expressing my happiness in that I now will have a title to choose from as well.
/my 2 cents
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that ESO will be any different than any other random themepark game? I mean, it's going to follow whatever's trending in an attempt to capitalize off of its franchise, like many of the others before it. The genre, as a whole, is evolving, so you may not see a quest-hub format. However, I guarantee it's going to treat its players very similarly to SWTOR, GW2, or WoW in recent times. After reading your rant on the stupidity and mediocrity of recent games, it's seems odd that you would look to ESO as your next hope. Admittedly, I don't know a lot about the game yet, so are you just a die-hard ES fan, or do you have some info on it that makes it seem promising?
Lots of folks are using GW 1/2 as an example of how a MMORPG can be run without sub fees. Does anyone know any specifics on how ANet gets this done? Is their only revenue stream box sales? Does the game shut down once box sales fall low enough?
But, its hard to add content in a static world, I believe that is the biggest problem. I am hoping GW2 can pull this off, because they say that the world will change, not just with DEs but with player actions.
So, if a game world can change, then they could add new content with ease. In the form of new mobs to fight, new dungeons poping up, new lands to explore.
I think Trion's gaming as a service model is reasonable and I don't have any problems paying them a monthly fee considering how much content they push out.
They also have very good customer service and in-game GM's that actually help people and participate in player discussions.
Contast fixes and patchs, good CS, little to no down time, large number of features other then just combat and crappy crafting. Basiclly it needs to be a real MMO not these fake single player "MMOs" they have been making since WoW.
Side note: the 50-60 dollars you pay for the game is to make the game not keep it up to date or add features bewteen patches.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Nothing. Sub fees need to go bye-bye. All a sub fee does is guarantee that the developer is motivated to fill the MMO with anti-fun time sinks. After all, if it takes a player longer to accomplish things, then they are p(l)aying longer. Going forward, I will be paying for games themselves, for expansions and updates, and maybe for things in a cash shop I want. The problem with most MMO's I've seen is that the initial enjoyment generated by playing something "new" does not last. As play time goes on, I start to see the same old same old, and spend more time wondering when I am going to enjoy the game than I do actually enjoying it. I find that the more MMO's I try, the sooner the bloom falls off the rose.
Game developers need to be taught to think that the way to generate revenue is to provide games that are fun to be involved in all the way through, not boring, repetitive clones chock full of chores with the occasional gem to keep people's credit cards locked into the company's drip-feed. However, I don't like the trends I'm seeing. Consumers (us) seem to be willing to support companies that provide clones of what has gone before, time sink-filled garbage, released-early broken games, games that are way too easy, and in which actual story is sort of tacked on as a thin veneer to justify the game's existence. We get what we pay for, and developers (and their investors) are being taught that it is lucrative to provide schlock games.
I hope we wise up sometime soon.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
Comments
back to the future online.
anyone?
More like "back to my childhood online".
~Or if that doesn't apply "back to my honeymoon phase online".
People will eventually get over their jilted sense of nostalgia, or they will blame the world eternally for "being shitty".
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I don't need to justify paying a sub. I'd rather pay 15 per month than be nickled and dimed in the middle of my game play.
~but now that you are seeing both at the same time, what options are left?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Apparently that's my only option, considering the quality of shite on the shelf.
Trust me, it's you - not them.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I haven't seen it yet...
What are you playing atm?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Oh man, the developers at ABC mediocrity need more folks like you. If you actually believe what you typed, then I've got 1,000 Asian grinders for you to cash shop in.
Let me explain nostalgia to you, and I don't know you or if you were ever there ten years ago and playing end game in the titles I listed, but nostalgia occurs because the community for one was based on the folks mmorpgs were once designed for. Communities reflected intelligent products, just like an author such as George RR Martin might attract top notch producers.
Crap attracts crap, mediocrity attracts mediocrity, mmorpgs that were intelligently designed, attracted an intelligent player base that was socially adept enough to create a community that in turn has caused many of us who were there to feel nostalgia.
I can't expect you to understand. But know that in ten years, no one is going to wipe a tear over the glory days they had in SWTOR or GW2. No one's going to care about those titles. So I'll take nostalgia any day and any developer company in the mmorpg genre that tries to create a title with similar quality.
Uh huh, coming from a guy that supports TESO simply because of some need to relive 3-faction PvP from his DAoC days.
Be sure to tell us about how you think it's not up to snuff on your first encounter with it, we expect as much.
~and my nostalgia days were spent in UO and SWG, respectively. I play Wurm now.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
While your reply was well thought out and a definite measure of your argument, I will simply say that I will enjoy ESO even if they can only produce 50% of what they are claiming. I for one, am tired of mediocrity, and I guarantee that there is a massive fan base of folks just like me who will be thankful that they finally have a place to log into without feeling like they are 12, or have to insert a quarter into a slot to keep their game on.
ESO is aimiing for mmoRPG quality and entertainment. This may not be for you, and that's of course, your choice. At least you have titles to choose from, I am just expressing my happiness in that I now will have a title to choose from as well.
/my 2 cents
BTW, checking out Wurm now. I played and loved Shadowbane - I might as well give this a look.
What justifies paying a sub? Nothing. The one and only sub game I ever played was The 4th Coming. It did almost everthing thing right. No box fee, weekly server maint w/patches, mothly content updates, pvp only servers, pvp free servers, and servers where you could choose to turn on or off pvp. Thieves were actually thieves! Not warriors with lots of dodge, they could actually rob other players. What it did wrong was "must have" items in cash shop.
Since I stopped playing that game I've hopped around many F2P/P2W games. While F2P games include all/most of what OP listed, most are grind extreme. Almost all that I've played once you get to L40 or so missions dry up before you're anywhere close to halfway to your next level.
The one F2P game that I have high hopes for is Lime Odyssey. While the cash shop b.s. will likely be in full effect, the content of the game itself is simply beyond what even some box/sub games offer. Remember when the opening movie of a game was relevant to actual gameplay? LO's content has you actually following up on that opening scene. Crafting is well thought out, no grinding mob x (for hours) for needed drops. And crafting isn't limited to weapons/armor, you will be able to craft potions, housing, materials for housing. Plus the crafting isn't generalized, you choose a specific non combat job and level it along with your battle job. And you can further specialize that non combat job, for example a blacksmith can become a weapon smith or an armor smith.
With games like this that are free to download, have regular updates, good community, average response from trouble tickets, lots of features, good customization without having to buy anything, and cash shop that will have fluff and needed items (but not neccessary items); why should I pay a box/rental/sub fee?
edit: By the way, that sig? Screenshot from the first Alpha of LO, from the graphics alone you can tell this is more than just another cookie cutter MMORPG...
I greatly enjoy playing Civilisation V. I was very happy to buy the game, but I certainly wouldn't pay a subscription to play it.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that ESO will be any different than any other random themepark game? I mean, it's going to follow whatever's trending in an attempt to capitalize off of its franchise, like many of the others before it. The genre, as a whole, is evolving, so you may not see a quest-hub format. However, I guarantee it's going to treat its players very similarly to SWTOR, GW2, or WoW in recent times. After reading your rant on the stupidity and mediocrity of recent games, it's seems odd that you would look to ESO as your next hope. Admittedly, I don't know a lot about the game yet, so are you just a die-hard ES fan, or do you have some info on it that makes it seem promising?
Lots of folks are using GW 1/2 as an example of how a MMORPG can be run without sub fees. Does anyone know any specifics on how ANet gets this done? Is their only revenue stream box sales? Does the game shut down once box sales fall low enough?
Player events and new content.
But, its hard to add content in a static world, I believe that is the biggest problem. I am hoping GW2 can pull this off, because they say that the world will change, not just with DEs but with player actions.
So, if a game world can change, then they could add new content with ease. In the form of new mobs to fight, new dungeons poping up, new lands to explore.
I would pay for that!
- No cash shop at all. And with no I mean none, nada, rien
- one huge or two medium sized expansion every year without any additional cost
Nice to have
- regular events
- minor content patches in between expansions
What I didn't mention because ANY game should provide this
- good customer support
- fast bug fixing
That's it. And of course there is no MMO out there that fulfills these requirements anymore. At least I know none that does.
I think Trion's gaming as a service model is reasonable and I don't have any problems paying them a monthly fee considering how much content they push out.
They also have very good customer service and in-game GM's that actually help people and participate in player discussions.
Contast fixes and patchs, good CS, little to no down time, large number of features other then just combat and crappy crafting. Basiclly it needs to be a real MMO not these fake single player "MMOs" they have been making since WoW.
Side note: the 50-60 dollars you pay for the game is to make the game not keep it up to date or add features bewteen patches.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Nothing. Sub fees need to go bye-bye. All a sub fee does is guarantee that the developer is motivated to fill the MMO with anti-fun time sinks. After all, if it takes a player longer to accomplish things, then they are p(l)aying longer. Going forward, I will be paying for games themselves, for expansions and updates, and maybe for things in a cash shop I want. The problem with most MMO's I've seen is that the initial enjoyment generated by playing something "new" does not last. As play time goes on, I start to see the same old same old, and spend more time wondering when I am going to enjoy the game than I do actually enjoying it. I find that the more MMO's I try, the sooner the bloom falls off the rose.
Game developers need to be taught to think that the way to generate revenue is to provide games that are fun to be involved in all the way through, not boring, repetitive clones chock full of chores with the occasional gem to keep people's credit cards locked into the company's drip-feed. However, I don't like the trends I'm seeing. Consumers (us) seem to be willing to support companies that provide clones of what has gone before, time sink-filled garbage, released-early broken games, games that are way too easy, and in which actual story is sort of tacked on as a thin veneer to justify the game's existence. We get what we pay for, and developers (and their investors) are being taught that it is lucrative to provide schlock games.
I hope we wise up sometime soon.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
A game with good gameplay that fits the definition of being a MMORPG. Not that crap we see today.
I am having fun. Simple as that.
Nothing. Subscriptions are just a way to sucker more money out of people.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
I agree one Hundred percent...
Asbo