Yesterday Jay Wilson from the D3 team had an interview on reddit and said that 4.1% of the D3 population plays on hardcore.
That's about 250k players based on a 6 million person playerbase (probably more at this point). That's a lot or a little depending on how you look at it.
One issue that perma-death brings is server and latency stability. I have never played a game or used an online service which functions at 100% at all times. And dying to lag really upsets some people even when they know it can happen.
if it has permadeath count me out. Im not wasting my subscription / cash shop moneys and time spent in game to have a good / strong character just to get ganked and my toon deleted or even full looted. Im playing a video game, not shooting talibans.
Make a permadeath mmorpg...see how many people want the fun of constantly rerolling after every death.
Might not be so bad if it was a totally free game, im sure lots of people would playt for a few deaths.
Or is ther "rezzing" in your permadeath game?
It works well in most P&P RPGs.
But there are 2 problems with MMOs. First of all have MMOs more combat than P&P and the game master might save you is she feels that you died unfairly just because of bad luck. Usually there are 1-5 fights during a 8 hour playing session there. MMOs are usually a lot more combat focused so a permadeath MMO would need to offer a lot more than combat.
Secondly have P&P no technical issues while MMOs often kill you by lagging or disconnection.
This things can be solved, I think you can make a perma death MMO but it is plenty of hard work and the game would have to have a rather different focus than current gen MMOs, or be incredible easy so only the total losers die.
I could imagine a MMO where you play a family of knights, thieves, merchant/crafters or politicians who work to enrich their families with plenty of plots, dectevtive work and fould deeds....
It amazes me how people hear "permadeath" and hold a negative opinion of it without even trying it.
But if you mention mini-pets and grab-bags they light up.
2 words. Grow some.
Actually, many here have whined about lagging to death in D3 HC, what would you think they would do in a real MMO?
I do however actually think that you can make a good MMO with permadeath (like I said in previous post) but that MMO needs to be a lot more like a pen and paper RPG. I would not trust a dev who hasn't played a few different P&P to make a good one, I just a see DF with permadeath otherwise.
Having a character killed in P&P is rather rare and tragical and you curse yourself for messing up. Permadeath MMOs needs to be just like that, if you just get randomly zerged to death by a few PKs the game would flop faster than an action Movie with Adam Sandler or a comedy with Van Damme.
Personally love the concept of perma death if it was done right.
Mainly you should not be as easy to kill as you currently are in most games.
In a perfect world, you should suffer staggered injury penaltys as you progess towards death, but have the ability to first aid all the way up to surgery to correct the injury depending on severity.
I would even love to see an inheritence system in place so if you do die, your reroll ( your child ) would inherit a portion of what you knew and owned.. that way each time you died you would not be starting from the very beginning but rather from a % of your own progression in the game.
I feel a system like that would be much easier for the average player to accept.
Personally love the concept of perma death if it was done right.
Mainly you should not be as easy to kill as you currently are in most games.
In a perfect world, you should suffer staggered injury penaltys as you progess towards death, but have the ability to first aid all the way up to surgery to correct the injury depending on severity.
I would even love to see an inheritence system in place so if you do die, your reroll ( your child ) would inherit a portion of what you knew and owned.. that way each time you died you would not be starting from the very beginning but rather from a % of your own progression in the game.
I feel a system like that would be much easier for the average player to accept.
Now, combine that "inheritance" idea with a "family tree" that records all your previous character lifespans (dates of birth and death). Kind of like a personal "Hall of Fame" or maybe Shame ?
Permadeath can only work if it is part of the game world at it's foundation. It can't be a system that is tacked on. Permadeath as an afterthought would be a disaster.
IF the game was really fun to play I'd roll a char, get killed and play in universe B.
Given the certain type of player that MMO's have, I'm sure there will be a large goup of players in A waiting to send me instantly off to B because they think its funny. And that dynamic would ruin the whole concept. So again, if the game is really fun to play, ignore A, go right to B.
The idea didnt said the game would have open pvp or not.
Also ,IF the game have open pvp, in the same way there are pks playing to kill guys in universe A to permadeath them, you would have problably anti-pks and in this case, if the anti-pks kill them they will need to restart their char.
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Doesnt sound like a permadeatch system, more like a rewards type system.
But, if there was enough of a demand for permadeath games, we would see more, or at least one MMO with permadeath.
This is not a reward system or some sort of "look at how cool I am, I never died and I am still on universe A".
Tthe idea is that universe A will fully have permadeath system, while universe B will be 100% the same (to not make guys complain they are playing with less stuff other than permadeath) but without it.
Now, in theory the guys that say "NO PERMADEATH GAME SHOULD BE MADE, EVER, JUST DELETE YOUR FUCKING CHAR" would not complain about the game (that has permadeath), and the game would be able to be released.
But aparently they are even saying this idea should never be made. After some weeks I will create a new thread with a game idea (a even smaller mix of non-permadeath/permadeath) and see if this idea would be able to be created.
But aparently they are even saying this idea should never be made. After some weeks I will create a new thread with a game idea (a even smaller mix of non-permadeath/permadeath) and see if this idea would be able to be created.
Nobody gives a damn if it's made, in fact most people have said that they'd just ignore it entirely even if it was made. Nobody gives a damn about permadeath!
But aparently they are even saying this idea should never be made. After some weeks I will create a new thread with a game idea (a even smaller mix of non-permadeath/permadeath) and see if this idea would be able to be created.
Nobody gives a damn if it's made, in fact most people have said that they'd just ignore it entirely even if it was made. Nobody gives a damn about permadeath!
Yes they give a damn, the poll result shows this.
Not only the poll but other places show people give a damn about permadeath.
-Like day z fps zombie mod, that is focused around permadeath was made based on permadeath and people still complain ALOT about it on the forums saying they need to change and that the game shouldnt be in that way, have permadeath. Developer explain alot why he wants the game in that way, but people continue complaining in the forums about it.
-People saying that you dont need to force permadeath on others.
-People saying to permadeath likers to just delete their chars when they die.
-People complaining about separated servers with permadeath, saying stuff like "this will split the players" (of course this will split the players, now permadeath likers will not need to play with non-permadeath players just because of the lack of a permadeath server).
So the votes, 15.8% would allow this mmorpg to exist and 57.9% would say no this mmorpg can't be created. THe other % are the ones that dont say that permadeath mmorpg can't be created/should be banned from gaming world.
Removing the ones that usually give ideas to ban permadeath, this means 78.6% that would not allow the game 21.4% that would allow this mmorpg to exist.
78.6% is a pretty high result, if you think this first post mmorpg idea, still has non-permadeath without any difference from permadeath part.
Anyway, will wait few days and make a new thread with a new idea, the plan B, some idea that have even less permadeath and that in some part the idea will fully not count as permadeath.
Comments
Yesterday Jay Wilson from the D3 team had an interview on reddit and said that 4.1% of the D3 population plays on hardcore.
That's about 250k players based on a 6 million person playerbase (probably more at this point). That's a lot or a little depending on how you look at it.
One issue that perma-death brings is server and latency stability. I have never played a game or used an online service which functions at 100% at all times. And dying to lag really upsets some people even when they know it can happen.
if it has permadeath count me out. Im not wasting my subscription / cash shop moneys and time spent in game to have a good / strong character just to get ganked and my toon deleted or even full looted. Im playing a video game, not shooting talibans.
It works well in most P&P RPGs.
But there are 2 problems with MMOs. First of all have MMOs more combat than P&P and the game master might save you is she feels that you died unfairly just because of bad luck. Usually there are 1-5 fights during a 8 hour playing session there. MMOs are usually a lot more combat focused so a permadeath MMO would need to offer a lot more than combat.
Secondly have P&P no technical issues while MMOs often kill you by lagging or disconnection.
This things can be solved, I think you can make a perma death MMO but it is plenty of hard work and the game would have to have a rather different focus than current gen MMOs, or be incredible easy so only the total losers die.
I could imagine a MMO where you play a family of knights, thieves, merchant/crafters or politicians who work to enrich their families with plenty of plots, dectevtive work and fould deeds....
It amazes me how people hear "permadeath" and hold a negative opinion of it without even trying it.
But if you mention mini-pets and grab-bags they light up.
2 words. Grow some.
so you are saying that people who dont like permadeath are immature kids that need to grow? i think that comment needs to grow some too
Actually, many here have whined about lagging to death in D3 HC, what would you think they would do in a real MMO?
I do however actually think that you can make a good MMO with permadeath (like I said in previous post) but that MMO needs to be a lot more like a pen and paper RPG. I would not trust a dev who hasn't played a few different P&P to make a good one, I just a see DF with permadeath otherwise.
Having a character killed in P&P is rather rare and tragical and you curse yourself for messing up. Permadeath MMOs needs to be just like that, if you just get randomly zerged to death by a few PKs the game would flop faster than an action Movie with Adam Sandler or a comedy with Van Damme.
Doesnt sound like a permadeatch system, more like a rewards type system.
But, if there was enough of a demand for permadeath games, we would see more, or at least one MMO with permadeath.
Personally love the concept of perma death if it was done right.
Mainly you should not be as easy to kill as you currently are in most games.
In a perfect world, you should suffer staggered injury penaltys as you progess towards death, but have the ability to first aid all the way up to surgery to correct the injury depending on severity.
I would even love to see an inheritence system in place so if you do die, your reroll ( your child ) would inherit a portion of what you knew and owned.. that way each time you died you would not be starting from the very beginning but rather from a % of your own progression in the game.
I feel a system like that would be much easier for the average player to accept.
Now, combine that "inheritance" idea with a "family tree" that records all your previous character lifespans (dates of birth and death). Kind of like a personal "Hall of Fame" or maybe Shame ?
Permadeath can only work if it is part of the game world at it's foundation. It can't be a system that is tacked on. Permadeath as an afterthought would be a disaster.
The idea didnt said the game would have open pvp or not.
Also ,IF the game have open pvp, in the same way there are pks playing to kill guys in universe A to permadeath them, you would have problably anti-pks and in this case, if the anti-pks kill them they will need to restart their char.
This is not a reward system or some sort of "look at how cool I am, I never died and I am still on universe A".
Tthe idea is that universe A will fully have permadeath system, while universe B will be 100% the same (to not make guys complain they are playing with less stuff other than permadeath) but without it.
Now, in theory the guys that say "NO PERMADEATH GAME SHOULD BE MADE, EVER, JUST DELETE YOUR FUCKING CHAR" would not complain about the game (that has permadeath), and the game would be able to be released.
But aparently they are even saying this idea should never be made. After some weeks I will create a new thread with a game idea (a even smaller mix of non-permadeath/permadeath) and see if this idea would be able to be created.
Nobody gives a damn if it's made, in fact most people have said that they'd just ignore it entirely even if it was made. Nobody gives a damn about permadeath!
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Yes they give a damn, the poll result shows this.
Not only the poll but other places show people give a damn about permadeath.
-Like day z fps zombie mod, that is focused around permadeath was made based on permadeath and people still complain ALOT about it on the forums saying they need to change and that the game shouldnt be in that way, have permadeath. Developer explain alot why he wants the game in that way, but people continue complaining in the forums about it.
-People saying that you dont need to force permadeath on others.
-People saying to permadeath likers to just delete their chars when they die.
-People complaining about separated servers with permadeath, saying stuff like "this will split the players" (of course this will split the players, now permadeath likers will not need to play with non-permadeath players just because of the lack of a permadeath server).
There are more stuff.
So the votes, 15.8% would allow this mmorpg to exist and 57.9% would say no this mmorpg can't be created. THe other % are the ones that dont say that permadeath mmorpg can't be created/should be banned from gaming world.
Removing the ones that usually give ideas to ban permadeath, this means 78.6% that would not allow the game 21.4% that would allow this mmorpg to exist.
78.6% is a pretty high result, if you think this first post mmorpg idea, still has non-permadeath without any difference from permadeath part.
Anyway, will wait few days and make a new thread with a new idea, the plan B, some idea that have even less permadeath and that in some part the idea will fully not count as permadeath.