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No starter pistol? What do you think?
Dean "Rocket" Hall is thinking about removing the starter pistol from the game. This would make your first survival priority finding a weapon or someone with a weapon to team up with. It's an interesting idea that does have some merit but it would also add some definite cons as well. The main one being bandits/griefers having an easier time camping new players. What do you think?
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Comments
i like the idea. however i think this will backfire. bandits will flood the shores and just own all the unarmed guys.
As long as he makes the changes to the zombie AI then I think this is fine, currently they will chase you endlessly and they can hit you and see you through solid walls, with no way to fight back from that it would be terrible!
Also if they are going to start you with no gun then they need to randomise the spawn points so that bandits can't just camp the beach for endless cans of beans.
any decent bandit is more than likely to get the jump on you anyways with or without a gun. i don't think that will actually change much.
i think perhaps an actual greater challenge would be spawning w/o a pack or maybe with less food and ammo.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
i think it would be a mistake, but not a huge one.
it hooks players into the game, having a piece to hold onto. removing this could lead to a whole lot of rage quits, if a player is unlucky enough to die 5 times before finding a gun.
might as well just start the character off bleeding and shaky.
Bad idea at the moment unless they add in some kind of melee attack...
The starter pistol is pretty crap anyway.. so i say keep it
Well I personally think the idea does have merit but there would have to be some changes made to the game first. The main one would be the no-holds-barred PvP ruleset currently in place. Without some sort of ruleset to control the wholesale murder that is going on in the game currently this would boil down to:
Survivor without weapon = Free beans, water and meds... HURAY!!!
Right now the game uses a straight up death match ruleset which really doesn't work for the whole mood of this game. I think this is why Rocket originally had the bandit skins but that idea was very flawed so it was removed. Until he comes up with a better system starting people with no way to protect themselves would just lead to the wholesale slaughter of freshly spawned characters which would lead to people rage quitting left and right.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
pretty much....
if anything maybe start with less bullets....still this would only make it more frustrating for new players. i'd say make it harder for vets by making the zombie plague affect you more and more the longer you remain alive in the world or something.
Another good idea, but the game is not ready for this yet. There is so many more important aspects of the game that needs fixing/adding.
- Servers should have 1 set of rules.
- Server hopping needs to be stopped. Logging out and repositioning should not be possible.
- Melee needs to be added. Even if it is just an animation + small AoE calculation
Only after those 2 things are added should the starter gear be changed. However, imho they should also;
- Implement permadeath properly.
+ Expert 30 day ban from server
+ Veteran 15 day ban from server
+ Beginner 1 hour ban from server
I thought his other suggestion was really great. Giving players some kind of feedback about another player's humanity w/o actually seeing a gauge is a great idea.
I like the idea, it gives a bit more weight to dying. For it to work best, player tents and vehicles need to be deleted immediately on death instead of at server restart though.
As for the coast-campers, I doubt that starting with a Makarov has ever made any difference with that, given that said campers tend to do it with minimum risk, ie with a sniper rifle far away, or in a small group.
i like the idea. this way ppl dont shoot each other rigth on the coast after spawn for a can of beans and have to be more careful when goign thru zed populated areas.
btw
awesome i didnt know mmorpg.com has a dayZ section
Bad idea.
Not because the idea is bad, but because the game needs tweaked to make it work.
I think run speed shoud be decreased on Zeds. Some of them are faster than us.
Also, they should lose interest after a while of running. An unarmed player being chased forever is no fun.
They can see us and attack us throgh walls, and sometimes walk straight through a wall. That needs fixing.
If players find it too hard to even find a weapon, there is a problem.
More low level loot, more enterable buildings. Also, I don't see why bandit skins were removed. Maybe you'd need to reach a certain level of humanity to get it. It should take 3-5 kills. Also, humanity should regenerate over time. Also, not only food, but water should regenerate blood. And different tiers of food should give you more blood. This will make it easier to survive longer.
Last but not least, there must be a melee attack. If zombies can do it, we can do it.
I think a lot of these things would make people more interested in the game. Stay longer. Then you can implement spawning without a weapon. You'd also need to randomize the spawn points a little more. Allow players to spread themselves out a little. So then people have to travel to air fields, military bases and Cherno/Elektro to find the really good stuff. Which means players who are less risky can generally stay out of harms way in lesser towns. Maybe they can be the ones camping bandits outside of the high level gear areas for once.
I agree with a lot of what you stated, but the zombies are the way they are because of the game philosphy and game engine limitations. Arma2 cannot handle hordes of slow moving undead zombies, and I think the developer wanted a more realistic scenerio. That is why the zombies are closer to " 28 day " zombies that could be considered infected people. There is a thread on the forums that has a bunch of links to replys that the main designer has made about game mechanics and philosphy.
Not to mention snipers/campers etc. Not sure it's a good idea.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
What?
Losing your gears not enough, being killed upon spawn by the TDM kiddies, now we need bans from the GAME to punish players for dieing. I swear some people enjoy roshambo mechanics WAY to much.
yea that's really overkill. just fix the game so it runs flawlessly ( or almost) and maybe make more buidlings explorable, and it will be awesome.
Most of these things are getting fixed in 1.7.1, and the no starter weapon thing won't happen before then. If it happens at all, the jury is still officially out on the matter.
As for melee, it would be a good addition and Rocket hasn't ruled it out (only saying that it's not a trivial thing to add), but personally I'd like to see it implemented alongside a chance to become infected with the zombie virus. The zombies should always be very, very dangerous.
I would agree with no gun at the start, as long as Mele was implemented and ya got a knife. Or a stick. Or maybe be able to throw rocks. Lordy, I'm starting to think Rocket's a friggin sadist.
I'd suggest a melee weapon, like a knife, and then a starter pistol with only a single clip.
I already made a point that you can have buddies drop their magazines and respawn for an infinite supply. Problem solved if the only ammo you start with is already loaded in the gun itself.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
All buildings in ARMA3 will be open. You will get your wish.
They don't have to be slow walkers.. Just slower than crazy sprinting runners that are faster than players. The same speed of players would be cool. some of them are way too fast and their movement is sometimes pretty ridiculous. These are zombies after all.. I doubt they have the knowledge to bob and weave to avoid your gun shots =P
I'd be fine with one clip of ammo and a melee weapon to start off with, among the few other things.
I think they should really work on night time additions. It gets so dark that it's really frustrating to play. There should be improved incentive to playing at night as well. There are a few things I'd like changed. And I haven't been playing long, so some of these may already be in the game.
Vastly decreased zombie aggro radius.
Flares SHOULD attract zombies near populated areas, just walk the radius to stay safe.
Increased visuals, it's way too dark. Not too light to make light sources meaningless though. Slight adjustment.
Do not force players to replace their pistol with a flash light. Create duct tape loot, add flashlight, tape flash light to gun. Or, hold flash light in the other hand.
Doing that could attract zombies, but it could have it's own aggro radius and LOS. It would make travelling out in the wilderness much easier. This also allows you to add batteries to the game, as well as some other items that could run off of batteries.
There should be a way to light up cities. Somehow through crafting, repairing breakers, power plants, etc. This could also increase playability at night. I don't know if you guys notice, but mostly only day time servers have a lot of people at night. People just don't enjoy it in general.
Increased chance to drop night vision goggles inside stores and military bases. That should help this as well.
Increased loot in general, not too significant, but increased none the less.
Per server there muffin and not from the game. If you die it forces you to try a different server until ban is gone.
No way.
That will kill all aspects of pre-made groups being able to play together. It may cut back on the roving bandit issue, but it also means that anyone you game with might as well not even consider *trying* to play this with you.
"Oh, I died. Kill yourself so we can play on a different server"
Stupid.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Or... you can just go back to the coast and grab them again by logging into another server... it's a bit of an inconvenience.. but it's not that huge of a deal.
Ah yeah, I forgot you log back in with all your stuff at the same location regardless of what server you are on.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Well, I have been playing since launch of the pistoless era now, and it is a pain in the ass. Pretty much have to start on an almost unpopulated server. Even on servers with three people, I have found the other two people to be coast camping.
I don't want an easy life, but I do want to be able to fight back. No melee--and I appreciate that it is hard to add--makes you a sitting duck without a starter pistol, and it is not like that makarov was OP or anything. Without *some* way to fight either players or zombies, even in a limited capacity, this game just got a lot rougher for the new characters.