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Question about combat...

danh2osdanh2os Member UncommonPosts: 24

I've been playing a lot of Tera lately and I really enjoy the realtime feel of the combat. I'm curious if the combat in Guild Wars 2 is similar to Tera in this respect. IMHO this approach is the future of MMO gaming as it makes combat more engaging and strategic. Thanks.

 

Dan

Comments

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860

    I have played them both and they are similar. GW2 feels a little crisper as far as shooting/casting/melee on the run then Tera because of the animation lock (which is minimal). Yes, both are probably the future of mmorpgs and I'm really looking forward to this.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449

    I wouldn't listen to Amjoco, he's a little blinded by GW2 hype atm.

     

    No, it's not the same. GW2 has some options for aiming, but a lot of skills are targeted, and the tumbling is more of a defensive cooldown than an actual dodge. Everyone gets it too which is pretty lame - Wizards and heavily armored guardians all tumble the exact same way.

    It's still an engaging combat, especially compared to other tab-hotkey MMOs, but it doesn't really compare to TERA in my opinion.

     

    GW2 has more of an arcade feel to it - Not that there's anything wrong with that, but to me, TERA has more of a fight simulator feel to it.

     

    What it comes down to is personal preference. Honestly, try it out yourself and form your own opinion. Some people swear by it, others think it's button mashing spam- I'm of the latter school of thought, but there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, that are loving it.

  • UsulDaNeriakUsulDaNeriak Member Posts: 640

    yes they are different. but both show, that a more dynamic (i wouldnt call it fps-style yet) combat becomes the future. TERA has dynamics out of the aimed combat system, but you still have to stand still to cast. GW2 has tab targeting, but you can cast while moving and the dodging system brings a lot of dynamics.

    but this is just the operational level!

    as we all know since this great book of this chinese general 2000 years ago, combat has 3 levels: operations, tactics and strategy. while RPGs improved lately on operational level, they lost a lot of versatility on tactical and strategic level compared to the old-school games. at least if it comes to ranged-fighters.

    however the dynamic events, if not overcrowded, need more tactics than the typical linear quest. of course not as much as soloing (or small group) red mobs in an open dungeon old-school. but better than nothing.

    played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
    months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
    weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
    days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds

  • fundayzfundayz Member Posts: 463

    And don't listen to Helthros either. The "button mash" comment proves he doesn't understand combat in GW2; anyone who is actually good at the game and/or has played past the starting zone will tell you that appropriate skill use in GW2 can make a HUGE difference.

    Although I haven't played Tera (art style not my cup of tea), I can tell you that GW2's combat is much more active and involved than traditional MMO's. Skills do not need a target or be in range to be activated, nor do ranged attacks home in on their targets (although they don't require shooter-like aiming). Furthermore, many skills are multifunctional, raising the skill ceiling of combat.

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449
    Originally posted by fundayz

    And don't listen to Helthros either. The "button mash" comment proves he doesn't understand combat in GW2; anyone who is actually good at the game and/or has played past the starting zone will tell you that appropriate skill use in GW2 can make a HUGE difference.

    Although I haven't played Tera (art style not my cup of tea), I can tell you that GW2's combat is much more active and involved than traditional MMO's. Skills do not need a target or be in range to be activated, nor do ranged attacks home in on their targets (although they don't require shooter-like aiming). Furthermore, many skills are multifunctional, raising the skill ceiling of combat.

     

    Ok, so you're not mashing 1 for auto-attacks every time you're not using a skill? I don't doubt that you have to use skills properly, I never even touched base on that. But you're always mashing a button, even if it's just an auto-attack.

     

    In TERA, due to the animation lock, you can't just spam your auto-attack or your enemy will simply circle behind you and destroy you. In GW2, you can spam 1, while you circle strafe jumping up and down, waiting for your important cooldowns to come back. You don't even have to manage a resource system.

  • danh2osdanh2os Member UncommonPosts: 24

    AH I see, that's kind of what I figured it would be like. Sounds like the old tab-target style with a few twists. I wish they would send me an invite so I can feel it out for myself. I take it only Pre-Purchasers are playing at the moment? Thanks for the info everyone. :)

  • austriacusaustriacus Member UncommonPosts: 618
    Originally posted by danh2os

    AH I see, that's kind of what I figured it would be like. Sounds like the old tab-target style with a few twists. I wish they would send me an invite so I can feel it out for myself. I take it only Pre-Purchasers are playing at the moment? Thanks for the info everyone. :)

    That was half true last beta weekend but not anymore.

    They have send thousands of keys to different sites and have invited a lot of people who havent pre purchased.

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Member Posts: 1,156

    TERA is action combat while GW2 is mmo combat but with vhanges to ake it feel more arcade/action based.

    If you notice, Koren RPG's focus alot on action combat systems. When you swing your sword, you'll hit anything in the attack arc. Animation locks exist to give it a more strategic element to it, so you don't just spam attacks out of controll and jope to hit. There's also no tab target, you must aim.

    In GW2,  there's no auto attack, but you can set any skill to it. You don't have to tab target, since you can just press the key and the attack will go in that direction, free aim. However, when tab targeted, attack will home and change direction in mid-air, so it's better. Also, while not full action based, so attack hit only the enemy closest to it (no arc hits for example), it's not full dice rolls, stand in 1 place. When you get hit, you get hit. Also, do to the way certain skills are and that you can "chain" them together (no GBC), it helps in that action feel. Also, dodge.

    So, full action like TERA, no, but not your traditional "stand in one place and trade blows" either.

    OP, IMHO, combat is oen of those things that you just have to try for yourself to get the feel of it. Try to get into beta, get a full skill bar, try out higher level areas or pve and pvp, and decide for yourself.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Member UncommonPosts: 1,332

    I find it odd that everyone thinks Tera is action combat. It almost seems that people are mindless drones that just repeat marketing slogans.

    Tera combat has been boring for me so far. However I have only gotten to level 11.

    I find GW2 combat more engaging. GW2 seems like a blend of MOBA mechanics with traditional mmo gameplay. 75% of my Elementalist attacks are skillshots as opposed to auto aiming attacks.

    I prefer GW2 combat over Tera's so far.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685

    I'll be honest.  GW2's combat seriously needs improvement.  Especially against NPC's.  The timing of skills is off.  With only 2 dodges, they are pretty much pointless when you're getting surrounded by 3 or more mobs.  You have to either run away, or try to kill them 1 by 1.

    The timing of knockbacks, knockdowns, stuns, pushbacks, etc.. needs to be timed correctly, and it's kind of hard to know when to use them, since there are no cast bars on enemies.  Enemy cast bars would help immensely for the reactice response one needs to use.  As it is now, you have to already know the enemy's skill set if you want to survive.  This results in a lot of deaths for new players and results in frustration.  Especially since most of these new players will be coming from traditional MMO's.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Originally posted by helthros
    Originally posted by fundayz

    And don't listen to Helthros either. The "button mash" comment proves he doesn't understand combat in GW2; anyone who is actually good at the game and/or has played past the starting zone will tell you that appropriate skill use in GW2 can make a HUGE difference.

    Although I haven't played Tera (art style not my cup of tea), I can tell you that GW2's combat is much more active and involved than traditional MMO's. Skills do not need a target or be in range to be activated, nor do ranged attacks home in on their targets (although they don't require shooter-like aiming). Furthermore, many skills are multifunctional, raising the skill ceiling of combat.

     

    Ok, so you're not mashing 1 for auto-attacks every time you're not using a skill? I don't doubt that you have to use skills properly, I never even touched base on that. But you're always mashing a button, even if it's just an auto-attack.

     

    In TERA, due to the animation lock, you can't just spam your auto-attack or your enemy will simply circle behind you and destroy you. In GW2, you can spam 1, while you circle strafe jumping up and down, waiting for your important cooldowns to come back. You don't even have to manage a resource system.

    Thieves use Initiative, a resource system.  All classes also get Special attacks., which can be considered resources. (the F1-F4 keys).

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade Member UncommonPosts: 757
    Originally posted by observer

    I'll be honest.  GW2's combat seriously needs improvement.  Especially against NPC's.  The timing of skills is off.  With only 2 dodges, they are pretty much pointless when you're getting surrounded by 3 or more mobs.  You have to either run away, or try to kill them 1 by 1.

    The timing of knockbacks, knockdowns, stuns, pushbacks, etc.. needs to be timed correctly, and it's kind of hard to know when to use them, since there are no cast bars on enemies.  Enemy cast bars would help immensely for the reactice response one needs to use.  As it is now, you have to already know the enemy's skill set if you want to survive.  This results in a lot of deaths for new players and results in frustration.  Especially since most of these new players will be coming from traditional MMO's.

    About the stuff in red. I belive if people have played action games, they will manage fine. Played for the first time this BWE, and managed to avoid (dodge, block etc.) attacks usually. What is a problem when playing melee tho, is the fact that the camera distance is too small and when fighting a big boss, you can't see the tells properly.

    People that haven't played action games or aren't too good at fast reflexes, I agree, might have a problem in the begining.

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    I find it odd that everyone thinks Tera is action combat. It almost seems that people are mindless drones that just repeat marketing slogans.

    Tera combat has been boring for me so far. However I have only gotten to level 11.

    I find GW2 combat more engaging. GW2 seems like a blend of MOBA mechanics with traditional mmo gameplay. 75% of my Elementalist attacks are skillshots as opposed to auto aiming attacks.

    I prefer GW2 combat over Tera's so far.

    ^ same.. also people will tell you TERA combat is great past x Level honestly it does get better in the 20s when you get more abilities to through around but the overall feel and mechanics remain unchanged and the fact you don't have many skills as a whole to play with really lets the combat down. For me it was the locked movements and long animations.. while they look great in TERA as a slayer numerous abilities require you to jump in a direction or move forward several paces and overall just didn't feel right to me.. I gave it to the 30s to let it grow on me but it didn't. Gw2 combat I found just how you described above

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • solarinesolarine Member Posts: 1,203

    Though TERA combat is more action-like in that you actually aim your hits, it didn't feel fluid to me at all. GW2's combat has felt better to me; more fluid, and with smoother animations to boot. 

    On that note, I have to say I'm really not liking where MMORPG combat is going. I can see the merit in doing good action combat in MMOFPSs - because they do work like actual FPSs - but not so much in RPGs. I guess I'm not a believer in the action/player skill emphasis in RPGs, because it inevitably makes the games even more about combat than they are - and I think RPGs, especially online RPGs, should go the other way. 

    Besides, I see MMOs as long distance games, and I don't like my long distance games so clicky and consolish. That's how games like DCUO and TERA felt to me. I get click-fatigue. :P 

     

  • danh2osdanh2os Member UncommonPosts: 24
    Originally posted by solarine

    Though TERA combat is more action-like in that you actually aim your hits, it didn't feel fluid to me at all. GW2's combat has felt better to me; more fluid, and with smoother animations to boot. 

    On that note, I have to say I'm really not liking where MMORPG combat is going. I can see the merit in doing good action combat in MMOFPSs - because they do work like actual FPSs - but not so much in RPGs. I guess I'm not a believer in the action/player skill emphasis in RPGs, because it inevitably makes the games even more about combat than they are - and I think RPGs, especially online RPGs, should go the other way. 

    Besides, I see MMOs as long distance games, and I don't like my long distance games so clicky and consolish. That's how games like DCUO and TERA felt to me. I get click-fatigue. :P 

     

    (removed off-topic post)

  • fundayzfundayz Member Posts: 463
    Originally posted by helthros

    Ok, so you're not mashing 1 for auto-attacks every time you're not using a skill? I don't doubt that you have to use skills properly, I never even touched base on that. But you're always mashing a button, even if it's just an auto-attack. 

    In TERA, due to the animation lock, you can't just spam your auto-attack or your enemy will simply circle behind you and destroy you. In GW2, you can spam 1, while you circle strafe jumping up and down, waiting for your important cooldowns to come back. You don't even have to manage a resource system.

    Ok, you have definitely not played the game. You don't have to mash 1 because you can set it to auto-attack, leaving you to focus on your other skills and class mechanics.

    If you had played the game you would also know that circle strafing while auto-attacking will get you killed quickly unless you are part of a big zerg.

    Go tell lies somewhere else.

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,701

    The sad part is its 2012 and both of these combat styles are still not as good as Asherons Call made in 1999. infact they are almost trying to be like AC is, but just not there yet. maybe one day a game will catch up to AC combat.

  • samvenicesamvenice Member UncommonPosts: 153

    A quick summary for OP:

    - I do love TERA combat, especially meleers (I play 56 lancer, 52 warrior, 26 zerk);

    - In this phase of my life, I am more interested in combat mechanics than questing/lore/whatever - I hit skip button and go for more blood;

    - if the above 2 apply to you as well, GW2 will make you yawn first (i'm already there), uninstall later (I will give it 5-10 more hours, I think that 20+ hours of playing a game is enough for me to consolidate my personal feelings about it).

     

    It's all matter of taste really:

    'm not saying is bad, I'm just saying is def. not my cup of tea (and for other design choices, but that would be going off topic here).

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449
    Originally posted by samvenice

    A quick summary for OP:

    - I do love TERA combat, especially meleers (I play 56 lancer, 52 warrior, 26 zerk);

    - In this phase of my life, I am more interested in combat mechanics than questing/lore/whatever - I hit skip button and go for more blood;

    - if the above 2 apply to you as well, GW2 will make you yawn first (i'm already there), uninstall later (I will give it 5-10 more hours, I think that 20+ hours of playing a game is enough for me to consolidate my personal feelings about it).

     

    It's all matter of taste really:

    'm not saying is bad, I'm just saying is def. not my cup of tea (and for other design choices, but that would be going off topic here).

     

    This happened to me as well :(

     

    I was pumped for GW2, I have my GW1 character completely decked out in achievements in anticipation for the game. Then I played TERA and realized that combat wouldn't be the same for me :

     

    Maybe things will change and I'll get bored of it by the time GW2 finally releases, but for now, in my opinion, it just doesn't compare. GW2 feels too action-arcade for me while I appreciate the fight-simulator style of TERA's action combat.

     

    Having said that, it's still a HUGE improvement over traditional tab-1-2-3 MMOs

  • SorrowhoSorrowho Member Posts: 581
    Originally posted by danh2os

    I've been playing a lot of Tera lately and I really enjoy the realtime feel of the combat. I'm curious if the combat in Guild Wars 2 is similar to Tera in this respect. IMHO this approach is the future of MMO gaming as it makes combat more engaging and strategic. Thanks.

     

    Dan

    I only played Tera 3 or 4 hours, and i wasen't really impressed enof with the combat system but my previous mmo was darkfall, and you can say alot of bad things about darkfail, but i found that combat alot more engaing and fun.

    and for all my previous mmo's "i put time into" l2, wow, df i played pretty much ranged only, but for gw2 i don´t enjoy the ranged combat aspects, tho i only breifly tried a lvl 4 elementalist and 2 memser for ranged style i found it lacking. But warrior meele style, i enjoy alot.

    pretty much my first meele focus in a mmo ever, but from what i read, and seen and little i tried in tera, it might have abit better combat system i just found everything else to boring to stand the game. and for gw2 i think its really imporent to find the right class, and play style to enjoy gw2, also i don't see myself playing other classes then warrior and enjoying them 

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