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Pure arrogance will destroy this game
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It is rather easy to see DEs repeat themselves, if you just stay a little longer in the same zone, or the same area within a zone. You'd have to do that intentionally though, as the progression within a zone tends to lead you on towards the next area.
The interesting part is that even the same event can turn out very differently if the numbers of participating players changes a lot.
^ times a million! hype can set you up for bigger dissapointment but in the end bad overall design kills games not hype.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Don't make any decision for or against any game based off of the comments from this site.
Edit: Or any post by Puremallace.
You can summarize marketing for MMORPGs in three ways:
- Games that copy WoW and aren't afraid.
- Games that pretend they are different to attract people who dislike the above.
- Games that are legitamately innovative mmorpgs.
Guilds Wars 2 is the middle one. It's 'innovative' and 'different' but it's all more of this streamlined, instanced, fast travel bullshit that every game seems to need to have. That kind of stuff isn't a player-driven MMO world, we're going backwards with releases yet again. It's the same sheep supporting this stuff, just the 'innovative and different' kind of sheep. Same as the players who love World of Warcraft, just these guys are more entitled. Every interview I've seen with the devs of Guild Wars 2 told me nothing and just fed me more marketing, and then I see a beta with some of the worst performance I've ever seen. (Rivaling AoC beta)
The legitamately innovative ones, that are pushing technology and bringing 'massive' back to the genre, are often undersupported and die very quickly, the truth is that innovation is not what sells games. It takes good marketing and that's it. Guild Wars 2 is the biggest hype right now, and after beta it's just more of the same. They just refined public quests and rifts and called it a day. You are still just killing X of something all day long, this time 'innovation' is removing all of the stuff that makes raid encounters bearable. The biggest deal I see with Guild Wars 2 is the instanced arena style PVP, but I have HoN and Dota 2 for that, so I again don't see the selling factor here. Especially with it being essentially a F2P mmo they have convinced people to cover box cost for.
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
Are we talking about success rate or personal opinion? Regardless of how we feel about Avatar it was a box office success. That cannot be denied.
I agree that GW2 is meeting up to the general hype they are generating. The game does play different than MMOs out today. LIKING that gameplay is where opinion comes into play. And yes I also agree those who are over-hyping the game will be disappointed by their own visions of what they think the game will deliver.
With GW2 it remains to be seen if it will be a 'box office smash' or a flop, but I am leaning toward the former.
That's a common problem with everything Internet related - and art related in general. Many people confuse "opinion" with "fact.
I can respect someone saying "in my opinion, Avatar was crap" or "I didn't like Avatar". I will never respect someone just saying "Avatar was overhyped crap" though, because that's insulting the millions who enjoyed that movie. To use another example, I'm really not a fan of stuff like "Lady Gaga". It's not my thing at all. I personally think, in my opinion, that it's crap. Yet will I go on a Lady Gaga forum to insult her fans and tell them it's overhyped crap? Nope. People enjoying Gaga don't harm me at all, they don't stop me from listening the music I enjoy.
That's why I will never understand the people sticking to the forum of a game they don't play and don't plan to play. It's obviously people just enjoying creating drama and who take enjoyment into ruining other people's fun.
At the end, it's the same kind than the haters who spit on World of Warcraft since over 7 years now. They can stomp their feet all day and night long saying the game is bad, WoW is still the most successful MMORPG of all times. Their opinion on that topic, at the end, doesn't matter at all, and without the Internet to boost their egos, nobody would listen to them. Some people are just so insecure about their own choices that they need to hate the choice of other people to feel better.
Now who is the most arrogant... good question, isn't it?
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
errm.... and you do the same, claiming that WAR didnt happen before rift :P
anyway, rift's rifts are much more like public quests in WAR than what arenanet did. you didnt read the full statement as it seems, he said
scaling dynamic event system
with scaling and dynamic being the important part, not the event system itself.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Of course the DEs are going to repeat themselves because it is how the game code works. Saying that they repeat is like saying I have to use 'W' to move forward. WOW didnt 'create' that, its just a function to play the game.
The important question is how FUN is the DE you are experiencing. Regardless of who we believe copied who, when and what repeated, if its FUN you typically wont be thinking about it.
+1 Rep ;-)
excellent post and very true people can hate something and can call it crap or whatever but they still need to realize they are the minority in things like that.. For me I thought Avatar on IMAX 3D was one of the best movie theater experiences I have ever had in my entire life. Sure story was little weak but the world and characters were just incredible.. Also a movie doesn't make over 700 Million domestic because it's crap it got great world of mouth.. If say a movie has a huge opening weekend then pretty much dies at the second week you can see it was the hype and the actual movie probably wasn't very good and didn't get get word of mouth to keep it going strong the following week. Same with warcraft so many poeple spew hate for warcraft here yet it's still the #1 MMO out right now by a long margin. Take hate for what it usually is a "vocal minority" in many cases and take actual numbers for what they are..
on a side note I still find it funny people coming into forums for games they have no interest in just to talk crap.. I play Tera so I post there, I preordered TSW and GW2 so I post there and here. i played and have sort of an investment in the star wars IP so I still seldom post in the swtor forums.. But I don't play Rift anymore I don't play wow, I don't play AoC or have any interest in playing these games ever again so i don't post on their respective forums.. I really don't see the point, I also don't see the point of GW2 fans posting in other forums just to bash that game and praise GW2 so it goes both ways. All peopel are doing are trolling or baiting by doing this which last time I checked was against this sites posting policy
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
why is this wrong ?
look TSW for example or TERA or Archage
What fucking difference do the semantics make? It's a goddamn forum. Pretty much everything someone says is their opinion unless they're submitting data, referring to historical references, etc. Why some feel every sentence has to be predicated with "in my opinion" is just silly.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Looks as if my thread struck a cord with a few people. My reasoning is simple for questioning this arrogance. Here are some facts:
1. ArenaNET is basically inexperienced with a MMORPG as proven by their recent test and complaints.
2. GW2 is going to attract the WoW crowd like it or not. This crowd = money and lots of it and ArenaNEt will have to decide will they bow to the financial preasure that will be put on them. We all know the complaints already and what the threads will look like from these people, so I do not need to go into detail.
3. There is a apparent arrogance when it comes to every claim made about pvp when it comes to this game that I find it impossible that it will ever live up to it.
4. We know little to nothing about end game or what their release schedule will look like. Only thing we have to go by is the Guild Wars content release schedule which is pitiful at best when compared to Trion or other devs.
5. Features from this mmorpg are going to be copied almost immediately upon release, so anything a GW2 fans thinks makes this game special will be labeled as generic.
I think you perfectly understood what I was meaning. It has nothing to do with adding "in my opinion" everywhere. It has all to do with how to say things, and where to say them. Some people here obviously don't intend to play this game and are only here to "stirr the pot". Some people just feed on drama and on ruining other people's communities, that's true since the dawn of times and even more now that the Internet gives an anonymous way of doing it without risking the usual real life consequences.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Meh, I think it is more along the lines some simply love creating confrontation, conspiracy, or debate. I would imagine most are at least going to check this game out at some point. How could you not at least be curious? That isn't to say they will like it or even be able to if they go into the game with a predetermined attitude towards it.
Anyways, as to your meaning that is very subjective. You could use that assertion with just about any comment someone makes that isn't backed up by some type of historical or factual data. What one person finds completely benign can send someone else into a rage or take it as a personal insult to their game, self, etc. See it all the time on forums.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
OP there's plenty of things that may destroy this game, lack of endgame, a terrible launch, or just too buggy. Not pure arrogance, that is the most absurd thing that could destroy a game. Anet could be as arrogant as they want and if they make a great game people will still play it, think about it a little.
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
I dunno about that because I beleive it was some arrogance that developed SWTOR into its end result.. just listening to the developers of that game and reading the posts from the beta forums last year... just my opinion though.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Everything he said was true.
I don't see a problem. If you don't think the MMO industry is in a rut..well..so sorry.
Well, if I had to cite the arrogance of a developer, it wouldn't really be Bioware I'd use as example... no matter what, they still created a game that selled massively, is still widely played, and which was praised for its story based content. If I had to look for arrogant developers, I'd look more towards all those amateurs who plagued the MMO genre with their failures these last years... Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Darkfall, Mortal Online... all developers who despite the warnings and advice of their beta testers, refused to change or adapt anything... result, their games are now total failures played only by a handful of die hard fans, if they even exist anymore. That is arrogance, yes.
Everything ANet said about GW2 so far is true, and praised by the vast majority too, even though the game is still in beta. I don't see any arrogance when they say they achieved something, because they actually did.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I love how you throw out your opinions as "facts".
1. Anet may be inexperienced with "MMORPG" but not with making a great online game. And what did their recent test prove? That the vast majority of the feedback about the game has been very positive and aside from some glitches that wree mostly fixed by the end of the first BWE, it's in a near ready state.
2. That has yet to be seen. We will only know that when it's released so your opinion is only conjecture at this point. Unless of course you would consider 1 person leaving WoW for GW2 as the "WoW crowd".
3. Once again, your opinion. I haven't seen arrogance in anything they have said. I've seen confidence in making a good game and so far I've seen them deliver on their promises.
4. THERE IS NO ENDGAME!!! When will people get it through their heads that the game itself is the "endgame". And considering they are talking about releasing DE's every week, I would say that's a pretty good content release schedule.
5. Again, that has yet to be seen. For all we know, this game will flop (I don't think so, but stranger things have happened), and no one will copy it.
The original points you made and these 5 follow up points are not facts. They are your opinions. You are entitled to have and share your opinion, but please refrain from dressing them up as facts.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Yeah, I think arrogance or possibly ignorance has plagued a lot of mmos as of late. Which in turn ends up causing the game not to perform well because they ignore their fanbase's concerns and recommendations. They also seem incapable of learning from the past mistakes or issues of other mmos and insist on going through the same "growing pains" because of it. Not to mention the effect it has on their sales and retention.
I don't see the OP's quote from the Anet rep as being that however. It just reeks of marketing tactics which lets be honest is something everyone does. Can't blame them for doing the best they can to market their game and ensure people realize it has the potential to offer something different, unique, and will pique their interest. I don't see it as being arrogant at all.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So, despite any other complaints you might have about this game, you believe it is going to be such a success that it is worthy of copying?
Oh, and it won't be generic until this happens, and that could take years...not immediately like you say.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
I think the biggest issue, is everyone feels that everything is either wrong or right.
The "elitest fans" as some people call them. Say GW2 is going to be revolutionary and ground breaking.
Then you have that group that says GW2 isn't revolutionary and doesn't reinvent the wheel.
Truth is. It's somewhere in the middle. GW2 is revolutionary in some ways, and not in others. It's going to succeed in areas and fail elsewhere. It's going to attract some people and repal others. It's just how the entertainment industry works. You can't please everyone.
GW1 fans are going to be happy with GW2 and thats all that matters. A-Net needs to do what they do, do it well, and appeal to their fans and not worry about the people sitting on the edge saying "prove something to me." A-Net doesn't owe those people a reason to play. They should play because they want to play, and for no other reason.
---
Live a life less ordinary.
don't want to get off topic but I still feel same thing is/has been happening to SWTOR it just has the IP and bioware name chugging it along... well see soon enough with release of two more bigger name MMOs + wow expansion and how well SWTOR actually fairs considering at release till now they really had no new compettition and on top of the huge names led to it's big initial sales.. As far as people still playing my guess is the number is way lower than people think but we will see... also my post over on the swtor forum about patch 1.3 sort of goes along with this.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Hype can't kill games, and for a B2P game like GW2, the more hype they can get, the better it is for them.
what does kill games is, community...