Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Lockboxes are gambling
ShardWarrior
Member Posts: 290
Original article on Massively.
If anyone tries to refute the above claim to you, then be prepared to listen to a chain of logic so twisted and bent that it's probably been run through a yoga class. The simple truth of all this is that you're plunking down a set amount of real-world money for a possibility of getting a reward you desire. It's gambling.
There is some hope as pointed out in the article. Blizzard had to kill Diablo III's RMT in South Korea. One can always hope the US and Europe will follow suit.
Comments
Yup. So is buying Magic or Pokemon cards (sports cards, too for that matter), or putting your money in a gashapon machine.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
uhh, what does D3's rmah have to do with lockboxes or gambling?
Being in an mmo makes it illegal if states/countries the game is in has laws against online gambling.
SOE found this out, it's why if you read the fineprint on their online card games (Legends of Norrath, SWG, whatever ) you'll notice the games are not allowed in many U.S. states due to anti-gambling laws. the fact that the cards can be bought with REAL CASH, and the fact that SOE card games give you a "CHANCE" of getting an item for the main game the card game is related to . The lockboxes fit the description of gambling, you buy a "key" with REAL CASH for a 'chance" to open the lockbox and get an item/prize.
D3's RMH is going to have more problems than South Korea gambling laws. Basically, South Korea said it "may" violate laws simply because Blizzard tried to sneak the RMH part of the game past them, only showing them the rest of the game for the SK rating board.
The real problem for D3, and more importantly its players, is going to be when the United States I.R.S. hits them hard for taxes on profit. And that IS coming.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Those really are not gambling because the value of individual cards is the same to the manufacturer (the buyers have placed unique values on them however). If someone sells a random pack of 10 cards valued at .10 each for $1 than the value is fixed even if the players have placed a "value" greater on some cards than others.
STO says that the "value" of the lockboxes are always greater than the cost of the keys so in that regard they are not technically gambling. However some items inside the lockboxes do have a greater value as set by the CStore than others so that might get them into trouble in some states.
I am personally torn here. As much as I hate state gambling laws on the whole I think I might hate the lockboxes and what they are doing to MMO's more. I hope one or more states goes after these companies and sends a message that the boxes are not worth the hassle because nothing short of that is going to stop this trend from spreading across MMO's like a plague.
Gah, sorry. Bad editing on my part. I meant to include this quote from the article there.
Sorry for that.
I wonder if companies would be allowed to keep the T ESRB rating if these are ruled to be gambling?
TBH I can't see how they get away with not telling you the odds on winning at least the top prize, when you have to spend real money to play. Even sweepstakes in the US that aren't pay to play have to tell you the odds.
Cryptic claims the average prize value is 160 cp and keys cost 100 cp or 90 cp if you buy a 10 pack. However, we don't know what value they place on prizes 99% of the players consider worthless or near worthless, like single lobi crystals or green batteries, and unless every prize is worth at least 100 cp, I don't see how they can say it isn't gambling, since you're losing money in that case.
Cryptic/PWE will claim that "technically" you do not have to pay real money. A player can grind dilithium in STO to convert to C-Store points to buy keys OR single keys can be purchased on the exchange for EC. The amount of time needed to do all this grinding is overly prohibitive of course, so players plunk down the real cash instead for the instant gratification.
I guess DCUO's lockboxes might kinda fall under this too..though a paying player unlocks for free..the froobs have to go buy a key..
Dont really see the issue, still...as I said in the other post about lockboxes..but ill agree to disagree here. Nobody MAKES me go to the cash shop for the keys.
*edit*
@Udon : hate to break it to you man, but I think the genie's out of the bottle on this
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
I'd say the fact subbers open them for free makes a HUGE difference. I've been playing STO for about a month very casually and I've probably gotten go kidding 200 lockboxes, if not more.
They get away with by one simple fact . No-one has bothered to call their States Attorney General. 50 States, 50 different standards. Only the States Attorney General can make the determination , but it requires a complaint being registered. Most people can't or won't be bothered to do this. I'm sure each individual state would love to get it's hands on the revenue generated by these items, not just the federal gov.
Lockboxes in STO have no guarantee on anything, such as the rare or desirable card. A gold lockbox could yield a common battery.
If you can get something out of the lockboxes worth less than the cost of the keys (100cp) than it's clearly gambling. If everything that you get out of the boxes is worth 100cp or more than it's a pretty grey area. Of course their is nothing preventing Cryptic from valueing common batteries at 100cp each and saying it's not gambling even if the players wouldn't put near that value on them. That's why collector cards are not gambling, you always get at least the face value of the cards out of the purchase.
I have never opened a lockbox in STO as I got over 20 boxes my first 6 hours playing the game and it was clear to me this is nothing more than an attempt to suck as much cash out of players as they can. I imagine many new ships are going to be introduced this way in the future as well. Not all as that would be obvious but many of the "better" non faction ones will be.