Pathfinder Online: Kickstarter Campaign Started

Royalkin · May 2012

UPDATE: The Patherfinder Kickstarter Campaign has met its $50,000 goal and then some, however if the goal of 2,000 backers is reached, a speciall addition will be added for its backers. Click the link to learn more. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-technology-demo/posts/225499

VIVA SANDBOX!

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For those so inclined, you can participate and help to fund Pathfinder Online.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-technology-demo

Yeah, it may only be the Tech demo, but that's a good chunck of the game mechanics, and that has to be done right to have a fun, launchable, and successful product.

MumboJumbo · May 2012

Blog# 12: The Blog About Kickstarter

Kickstarter solves a huge problem for creative projects. With Kickstarter, a creative team can ask their audience to show their support based on the idea and the team. Each person who backs the Kickstarter takes a little bit of risk, but not so much that they're likely to be hurt if the project doesn't come to fruition. Yet in aggregate, those supporters can generate enough money to make it possible to get the project past the point where investors can evaluate it on its own merits, while simultaneously demonstrating their desire for the finished product.

xmenty · May 2012

Another Indie Dev doing a Sandbox MMO that need Kickstarter just to fund their Tech Demo.

SuperXero89 · May 2012

And suddenly my expectations for this game sunk like a rock.

Caldrin · May 2012

Originally posted by SuperXero89
And suddenly my expectations for this game sunk like a rock.

why?

SuperXero89 · May 2012

Originally posted by Caldrin

Originally posted by SuperXero89

And suddenly my expectations for this game sunk like a rock.

why?

Because this is where we realize that Pathfinder is just another indie sandbox MMORPG backed by a company with large ambitions but small means.

djmtott · May 2012

Honest question... has anything good come from Kickstarter yet?

miguksaram · May 2012

Originally posted by djmtott
Honest question... has anything good come from Kickstarter yet?

Well there is this,

http://forums.majorleaguegaming.com/topic/271065-new-shadowrun-game-is-officially-in-developement/

which has lead to this,

http://www.shadowrun.com/

MumboJumbo · May 2012

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Caldrin

Originally posted by SuperXero89

And suddenly my expectations for this game sunk like a rock.

why?

Because this is where we realize that Pathfinder is just another indie sandbox MMORPG backed by a company with large ambitions but small means.

I know this partly marketing but nonetheless hear them out:

We’ve heard it our entire careers: “Are you crazy?” “It can’t be done.” “Nobody would buy that.” “It’s impossible.” Yet we have succeeded in doing the impossible, time after time after time. A roleplaying game where you play the monsters rather than the heroes? Are you serious?

Vampire: The Masquerade had its 20th anniversary last year.

---

Wait, you want to make a card game where you have to create your deck by buying booster packs of random trading cards? Nobody would buy that.

Magic: The Gathering is by far the most successful game ever in the history of tabletop gaming, and will celebrate 20 years in 2013.

---

You want to do WHAT? Make the Dungeons & Dragons game mechanics open source? That’ll kill the entire industry!

The Open Game License (OGL) revolutionized the RPG market in 2000, leading to hundreds of companies producing products compatible with the Third Edition of D&D.

--

Hold on—you’re going to create your own game to compete with Dungeons & Dragons? You’re wasting your time!

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is now the world’s best-selling tabletop RPG.

--

So when we told people we wanted to create a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game (MMO) for a fraction of the cost and development time of the big MMOs, you can imagine some of the responses we got.

It’s a pipe dream! Nobody can do that. It’s impossible.

Well, we’re the team that laughs in the face of impossible. Pathfinder Online is the project that will slay this dragon. And Goblinworks is the company that will make it happen. Impossible? We say nay!

MumboJumbo · May 2012

Originally posted by djmtott
Honest question... has anything good come from Kickstarter yet?

Depends how you define "good". If you mean, have any titles come out that are demonstrably successful (popular/critical) then you're premature to ask*. To be sure the same will be said of "bad" or disappointing, but again not yet.

Some interesting projects imo:

Xenonauts (genre, extra polish offered)
Double Fine (genre, track-record)
Star Command (platform, indie start-up)
Shadowrun (popular IP)
The Banner Saga (genre, dev experience)

Creative freedom from publisher dependencies is a good place for small(er) developers so in that respect it's already good. More on Kickstarter:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/346275/Crowd-funding.html

*FTL won some indie awards already however.

Caldrin · May 2012

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Caldrin

Originally posted by SuperXero89

And suddenly my expectations for this game sunk like a rock.

why?

Because this is where we realize that Pathfinder is just another indie sandbox MMORPG backed by a company with large ambitions but small means.

I thought that was pretty obvious from the start..

If they can get enough cash togeather to build up a tech demo then they could get some big money investors..

No big publisher will try and put cash into an MMORPG sandbox game as they think it wont make any cash all they will do is carry on putting out the same old themepark games with tiny changes to the way things work and call them next gen..

If we really want sandbox games then im sorry but we need to look at indie developers and try and support them as much as we can..

Also as for things like kickstarter putting out good games.. I think some of the best games in the next few years will come out of kickstarter projects..

One game that i can mention that did their own kickstarter type thing, infact are still doing it is called Endless Space.

http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/

The game in its current state is 10x better than any of the big space empire games that have been released recently..

Zylaxx · May 2012

Originally posted by SuperXero89
And suddenly my expectations for this game sunk like a rock.

At least going in we know its made by an Indie which means more likely to fail but on the other hand you have a AAA title like TESO with all the funding it needs and is also doomed to fail because its a Themepark WoW clone. So which is worse?

xmenty · May 2012

I am not that sure but shouldn't they put up the 50k to make their own dream game?

They are making a Tech Demo of a Sandbox MMO.

I just felt that they are milking Kickstarter thats all.

Caldrin · May 2012

Originally posted by xmenty
I am not that sure but shouldn't they put up the 50k to make their own dream game?

They are making a Tech Demo of a Sandbox MMO.

I just felt that they are milking Kickstarter thats all.

Not many people just have 50k laying around to put into a project.. Its a lot safer to put it out to somthing like kickstarter to see if they can get the funds. At the end of the day they are not forcing people to pay they are asking people if they would like to support them

Loke666 · May 2012

Originally posted by MumboJumbo
I know this partly marketing but nonetheless hear them out:

We’ve heard it our entire careers: “Are you crazy?” “It can’t be done.” “Nobody would buy that.” “It’s impossible.” Yet we have succeeded in doing the impossible, time after time after time. A roleplaying game where you play the monsters rather than the heroes? Are you serious?

Vampire: The Masquerade had its 20th anniversary last year.

Wait, you want to make a card game where you have to create your deck by buying booster packs of random trading cards? Nobody would buy that.

Magic: The Gathering is by far the most successful game ever in the history of tabletop gaming, and will celebrate 20 years in 2013.

You want to do WHAT? Make the Dungeons & Dragons game mechanics open source? That’ll kill the entire industry!

The Open Game License (OGL) revolutionized the RPG market in 2000, leading to hundreds of companies producing products compatible with the Third Edition of D&D.

Hold on—you’re going to create your own game to compete with Dungeons & Dragons? You’re wasting your time!

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is now the world’s best-selling tabletop RPG.

So when we told people we wanted to create a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game (MMO) for a fraction of the cost and development time of the big MMOs, you can imagine some of the responses we got.

It’s a pipe dream! Nobody can do that. It’s impossible.

Well, we’re the team that laughs in the face of impossible. Pathfinder Online is the project that will slay this dragon. And Goblinworks is the company that will make it happen. Impossible? We say nay!

It can be done and if they had a lead designer like Strain or Kaplan they could pull it off. The current lead designer however did some work on WoDO and not as lead designer so we are not only talking about low budget but also a rather inexperienced team.

Anything is of course possible and as a Pathfinder P&P player I have been checking out what I seen about the game and gets the newsletter.

However wont I get hyped for the game until I actually tried it, too much say that this will be another MO. On the other hand do I like if you guys (and gals) support the game and put some money in...;)

What I seen so far makes me wonder why Paizo didn´t get someone with a bit more resources to make the game. Pathfinder sells better than D&D nowadays and is probably the largest P&P RPG out there right now.

superscott99 · May 2012

Big Companies seek to make big m oney. A quick look at history will demonstrate that large companies have almost never produced anything truly innovative. It has always been the little guy, so to speak, who has truly pushed the boundires of what is possible. IF we as gamers really want a new, and innovative game to play, we will have to look to the "indie" develepoer for it. Helping to fund thier projects, whether they succeed or fail, will encourage others who might be "on the fence". Someone out there has got the idea for the AAA sandbox we're all waiting to play. And it isn't going to be EA, or Blizzard or anyone else like that that delivers it. IT'll be a little guy.

MumboJumbo · May 2012

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by MumboJumbo
I know this partly marketing but nonetheless hear them out:

We’ve heard it our entire careers: “Are you crazy?” “It can’t be done.” “Nobody would buy that.” “It’s impossible.” Yet we have succeeded in doing the impossible, time after time after time. A roleplaying game where you play the monsters rather than the heroes? Are you serious?

Vampire: The Masquerade had its 20th anniversary last year.

Wait, you want to make a card game where you have to create your deck by buying booster packs of random trading cards? Nobody would buy that.

Magic: The Gathering is by far the most successful game ever in the history of tabletop gaming, and will celebrate 20 years in 2013.

You want to do WHAT? Make the Dungeons & Dragons game mechanics open source? That’ll kill the entire industry!

The Open Game License (OGL) revolutionized the RPG market in 2000, leading to hundreds of companies producing products compatible with the Third Edition of D&D.

Hold on—you’re going to create your own game to compete with Dungeons & Dragons? You’re wasting your time!

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is now the world’s best-selling tabletop RPG.

So when we told people we wanted to create a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game (MMO) for a fraction of the cost and development time of the big MMOs, you can imagine some of the responses we got.

It’s a pipe dream! Nobody can do that. It’s impossible.

Well, we’re the team that laughs in the face of impossible. Pathfinder Online is the project that will slay this dragon. And Goblinworks is the company that will make it happen. Impossible? We say nay!

It can be done and if they had a lead designer like Strain or Kaplan they could pull it off. The current lead designer however did some work on WoDO and not as lead designer so we are not only talking about low budget but also a rather inexperienced team.

Anything is of course possible and as a Pathfinder P&P player I have been checking out what I seen about the game and gets the newsletter.

However wont I get hyped for the game until I actually tried it, too much say that this will be another MO. On the other hand do I like if you guys (and gals) support the game and put some money in...;)

What I seen so far makes me wonder why Paizo didn´t get someone with a bit more resources to make the game. Pathfinder sells better than D&D nowadays and is probably the largest P&P RPG out there right now.

The business model of:

" Since Goblinworks won't have to pay off a huge theme park mortgage, our focus will instead be on making our virtual world as engaging as possible and sustaining that virtual world as the population grows over years of time,"

Sounds like a viable approach. As for the CTO, Mark Kalmes all I could glean from a quick search: "Software Director for the World of Darkness MMO project at CCP" as well as, & "worked on City of Heroes at Cryptic Studios"? Ref: https://goblinworks.com/blog/

The current Kickstarter is to drum up investment interest in accessing the preferred middleware options. And no idea how that will determine things, but hopefully the Tech Demo will clarify such things a lot, when it releases (~34K atm)?

Vesavius · May 2012

I approve of Kickstart and I approve of the design objectives and general philiosophy of the production.

I also approve of Paizo, a lot.

oh, and I DEFINITELY approve of that collection of books he was showing...

I'm watching this one and it might well be the second Kickstarter I help with.

Gdemami · May 2012

Ah, milking on bulliable and naive people has began

Not only they are bragging about how they are planning to let people pay for beta but seems like they want your money for even less...

MumboJumbo · May 2012

Originally posted by Gdemami

Ah, milking on bulliable and naive people has began

Not only they are bragging about how they are planning to let people pay for beta but seems like they want your money for even less...

lol, scepticism is a useful stance for these sorts of things. For this token donations would be one of my "don't break your own rules" approaches. Yet, perhaps a few things mitigate here:

Design: A sandbox mmorpg with documented design (for sure next step is what's the tech like/who's invested already/show me the money)
Experience: Strong IP backing, goblinworks have some AAA mmorpg, pnp rpg experiences & connections.
Backing: Crowd funding is still flush (no kickstarter fatigue just yet) and useful to "spread the vibe".

It could be a "best yet" chance at some fantasy sandbox mmorpg that might emulate some of EvE's yoy growth and "gameplay complexity"?

----

As to the rewards they don't really do much for me, but subjectively that's a value judgement, for some RP parties look at the tiers: Objectively the tiers are a sign of a well-thought out project:

$5 - token suppot
$15 - pdf of that thornkeep book + design docs of pathfinder online + supporting the game
$30 - basically signing on for being there at T=0; release is going to be batch start not continious (note the difference) which also factors somewhat + closer ties to the developers over the dev cycle (years).
$50 - the physical book; if you compare to amazon it's not THAT far off a similar rulebook published by Pazio? + all below...

It's not for everyone and if it polarizes (day 1 hits target vs plenty of ppl "who would ever back this???!") - the better fit for Crowd Sourcing vs conventional market research, imo.

SuperXero89 · May 2012

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by SuperXero89

And suddenly my expectations for this game sunk like a rock.

At least going in we know its made by an Indie which means more likely to fail but on the other hand you have a AAA title like TESO with all the funding it needs and is also doomed to fail because its a Themepark WoW clone. So which is worse?

Honestly, thus far the indie sandbox is much worse. The developers expect you to pay full price for a nowhere near finished product, hanging only on the promise of future content updates that never come because the developer lacks the financial resources to implement them. Games like Mortal Online, Earthrise, and Xyson have been utter disasters, releasing in nowhere near a finished state. Earthrise is dead and the rest hang on for dear life with a minimal number of subscribers.

MumboJumbo · May 2012

Goblinworks has set a stretch goal of >2,000 backers (NOT CASH) for including an additional pdf dungeon and placement in the demo:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-technology-demo/posts/225499

For most Kickstarter projects, the primary goal is raising money. For the Pathfinder Online Technology Demo, though, raising money is only one part of our purpose. Since we want to show potential investors that there's demand for the game, we also want to see the number of backers climb as high as possible. We topped 1,000 today, and that's fantastic… but we think the potential is much higher.

And that's why we're announcing that our first stretch goal won't be based on dollars, but on the number of backers.

If we reach 2000 backers, we're going to create another dungeon level beneath Thornkeep, which will be presented as an additional PDF download for everyone who has pledged $15 or more. This new level will be designed by Paizo's own Jason Bulmahn, and backers will be able to participate in a survey to determine the theme of that dungeon:

Royalkin · May 2012

I added an update to the original post, all thanks to MumboJumbo who got to it first.

dontadow · May 2012

Creepiest thing in the world, if they don't have the money for it, i wished they'd not waste money on this project. With dnd 5e around the corner, it's the wrong time for a company to go bankrupt

Ambros123 · May 2012

I alawys though that the Pathfinder Online was being supported by the people who made Pathfinder... shame.

LordPsychodi · May 2012

Honestly, i don't think Pathfinder is a good game, mind you I don't think its even remotely a bad game. Anyone that was brave enough to take 3.5 D&D and try and improve it let alone do something that was considered suicide by grognards for their compan'y future gets bonus points by me. But you guys do know the head of this project is the guy responsible for the $70 monocle fiasco for EVE online, right? Ryan Dancey is by a mile the most vitrolic designer in tabletop games, and I haven't seen anything that shows he has even the slighrest capability to make this anymore than a pipe dream built on the riches of dellusional nerds, especially given $50k for a tech demo is so low-balled its insane.

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Pathfinder Online: Kickstarter Campaign Started

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