Originally posted by Laserwolf I have nothing against RPGers or PVE, I just don't like Carebears. The reason most devs out there are shaping their games for the Carebears is not because they are the majority, but because they whine the loudest. Not because they speak louder, but because they whine louder. Even if non-carebears tried to speak out louder the whine is always going to be heard above the yell. You hit the nail on the head with my sunbather point. I am not saying they shouldn't go to the beach to sunbathe. I am saying they should recognize the water for what it is if they do go there. Carebears like a little pvp around for atmosphere, but the moment the "atmosphere" gets in the way of their sunbathing they want it gone. I don't think people who are carebears are idiots at all. I play single-player games too and enjoy a chat room now and again. I just don't want them screwing with my favorite game genre. PVE belongs in MMORPGs, RPGing belongs in MMORPGs, non-fighters(crafters) belong in MMORPGs, Carebears do not.
Let me get this straight
"Carebears" (I'm going to assume you mean non-PVP'ers) are the loudest whiners?
Dude you have OBVIOUSLY never done customer support for an MMO in your entire life. PVP'ers whine the most in every single game I've ever played. I've been a Guide in EQ on Rallos Zek and Xegony (Rallos - PVP, Xegony - PVE) and I know people who did CS for DAOC as well.
Trust me when I say that the most incessent cry-babies on the planet are PVP'ers.
Guide Burnout on Rallos and Tallon Zek got so bad from the incessant whining from PVP players (not to mention the downright abusive behaviour by them) that we had to take volunteers from all the other servers to work part-time on Rallos and Talon Zek.
Those who want "Full" PVP are the vocal minority, not the so-called "Care bears". over 75% of players want PVP in a limited form. Less than 25% want completely open PVP.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Carebears are Non-Pvpers who try to change a current or upcoming game to remove almost all pvp so that they can get in their 30 minute game sessions before work without any risk of "wasting" those 30 mins when they are killed by another player or even interrupted. I am a non-pvper for the most part yet I am no carebear. I just recognize open-pvp as being an important part of making an MMORPG great.
Nothing would give me more pleasure than to laugh in the AC2 developers faces.
"You cowards, you stray from your Darktide roots and this is what you get."
I hope they lose their jobs and get banned from the programming MMORPG community. The worst thing to have is carebear MMORPG developers. They are the root of the problems.
As for all of you who are against me.
Go log back into WOW and do your quests and raise your levels and item hunt. That is what carebears do.
Originally posted by Laserwolf Carebears are Non-Pvpers
I always thought Carebears were people who played in situations with no risk whatsoever (like WoW on any server). There are plenty people who I would describe as Carebear PvP'ers. I agree with your point that there are plenty peoplw who mainly play PvM/PvE who are not Carebears.
Originally posted by Umbrood Allthough he is obviously trolling he is probably a little bit serious. And proofs his own point, but to the opposite, because no sane person would ever play a game with someone like him, not if it was a PvE game, and most certainly not a PvP game. You see what most people do not like about PvP in such a system is not the PvP, but people like you. So in fact, to score another GREAT victory for PvP games, and with this I am serious, you need to go find a shotgun, put it in your mouth and pull the trigger. The less people like you around boards like these and PvP would be more of an option.
Dont you think the shotgun comment is a little to harsh? Everyone is entitled to their opinion their is no right or wrong.
Back the post. I believe you have a point (Original Poster) too many games now a days have poorley implemented pvp where the risk out weighs the reward.
AC1 hit the nail on the head as in the Darktide server. I think a lot of people do not like pvp but a game without pvp in my opinion is like marriage without sex
yup runescape is open pvp but only in the wilderness.. but their battle system is so crapped up that you can only fight 1v1s.. but I think they've changed that now. I haven't been there for a while.
but seriously, if open pvp is what people want, I'd like to suggest Unreal Tournament 2004. it may not be an rpg but hey, the game is all about your skills. And what's great is that there are very large communities for these type of games.
and how about that upcoming game Rakion? lol this isn't much of an rpg either but it's got midieval characters.. and it looks like it'll give what pvpers want.
---------------------------------- MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
Originally posted by Umbrood Allthough he is obviously trolling he is probably a little bit serious. And proofs his own point, but to the opposite, because no sane person would ever play a game with someone like him, not if it was a PvE game, and most certainly not a PvP game. You see what most people do not like about PvP in such a system is not the PvP, but people like you. So in fact, to score another GREAT victory for PvP games, and with this I am serious, you need to go find a shotgun, put it in your mouth and pull the trigger. The less people like you around boards like these and PvP would be more of an option.
Dont you think the shotgun comment is a little to harsh? Everyone is entitled to their opinion their is no right or wrong.
Back the post. I believe you have a point (Original Poster) too many games now a days have poorley implemented pvp where the risk out weighs the reward.
AC1 hit the nail on the head as in the Darktide server. I think a lot of people do not like pvp but a game without pvp in my opinion is like marriage without sex
Maybe a bit harsh, but I was just trying to make my point as well as opinion clear. Fact is that non-PvP games is no threat to the open PvP games, people like the OP is. This thread killed the open-pvp community a little bit more, wich is sad. And I stand by my point, if threads like these and people like that never emerged there would be more PvP games out, hence the OP is bad for the PvE community but a disaster for the PvP one.
What do they say, "with friends like that you do not need any enemies"?
And I agree, Darktide was the way to do it, and any game can do it like that, just open a server and pull all the plugs, easy as that. Leave everyone with a choice even.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For most people, it's the rush you get where you know you could be attacked at any moment, that your experience and loot could be at stake. That was what happend in UO in pre-trammel, you could be a tradeskill whore but they all have to go outside sometime to collect their materials to refine them and having a rogue hidden or a mage behind a tree just as you're racing back to town to use them is an utterly new experience that simple PvE pleasures can't reproduce.. You wouldn't be able to replicate the sort of atmosphere in any game right now (except for perhaps Darktide on AC1 or Hardcore on Diablo 2). You could've had a chance to play pure pre-trammel with In Por Ylem, a pre-trammel serer (yes, it's a free server) but it closed down due to it bringing the worst out of people.. Not by attacking randomly without guidelines but people generally downtalking and cursing. As stated before, you cannot find this type of experience in this breed of games that are out now.
Originally posted by Zhanghia You could've had a chance to play pure pre-trammel with In Por Ylem, a pre-trammel serer (yes, it's a free server) but it closed down due to it bringing the worst out of people.. Not by attacking randomly without guidelines but people generally downtalking and cursing.
Originally posted by Harafnir Yes I agree. Shadowbane is an astounding success, compared to its competitors
Harafnir, it isn't about the PvP but about the monstrous lag. That's all everyone complained about.. and the graphics as well. I can look back at so many reviews and all they'd complain about is the -horrendous- lag.
Originally posted by Horsas Hail my fellow Veteran PVP'ers. AC2 was a disgrace to the FFA PVP community. A disgrace to players like us who embraces harsh FFA PVP environments with FULL looting privelages. This is a victory for PVP'ers. This is one less carebear game in the world. We're slowing winning the battle. But there are so many carebears out in the world. We need a carebear slayer. Someone who will vanquish all the cowardly players who embrace WOW & EQ and actually think they are pvp'ing. I am of the old times, long long ago in Ultima Online during the dread lord days. LuzArius
I hate people like you, people like you make PvPers look bad and no MOST of us AREN'T like him. I PvP for fun and only with those who want to, I have NEVER forced PvP on anyone but because of people like you when I mention that I like to PvP most people just jump to the conclusion that I'm one of those jackasses who go around and kill noobs. Most PvPers DON'T try to force PvP on people yet some how because of a MINORITY of PvPers ALL of us have been labeled as jackasses whose only thought is to go around and grief newbs and crafters. Because of people like you people think were just a bunch of shit talkers and yet again those only a MINORITY of PvPers.
And from the beginning im still glad people have had the restraint from turning this topic into a flame war. Games are made to appeal to the Masses, although I think you PvPers deserve a game with all PvP, it will not happen so long as money is an objective.
Now I dont really like Open PvP too much (2 days ago I was ganked by 2 people from a corp my corp was at war with at war with on EVE online, though I wanted to just stay out of this war, I was just minding my own damn buisiness running missions, I lost 9 million isk worth of stuff). Hybrid games of Open PvP and some PvE would be a solution, but they are very difficult to make and still be fun.
I dont like being called a carebear simple becuase I just want to play a game I want to. And yes, lately you PvPer people have been doing far more whining than us "Carebears". Let us be will you? Enough of this bloody "PvE VS PvP" Buisiness.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by Gamewize And from the beginning im still glad people have had the restraint from turning this topic into a flame war. Games are made to appeal to the Masses, although I think you PvPers deserve a game with all PvP, it will not happen so long as money is an objective. Now I dont really like Open PvP too much (2 days ago I was ganked by 2 people from a corp my corp was at war with at war with on EVE online, though I wanted to just stay out of this war, I was just minding my own damn buisiness running missions, I lost 9 million isk worth of stuff). Hybrid games of Open PvP and some PvE would be a solution, but they are very difficult to make and still be fun. I dont like being called a carebear simple becuase I just want to play a game I want to. And yes, lately you PvPer people have been doing far more whining than us "Carebears". Let us be will you? Enough of this bloody "PvE VS PvP" Buisiness.
So you want a single player version of eve online with a chat room?
Or 1 point for the peoples that want servers that dont enforce raiding or PvP? As far as I am concerned, any MMO with raiding or PvP enforcing going down is a victory...oh wait, it mean I cant experience anything but victories?
Anyway, the Bard's Tale is great fun...a tadbit short, but great great fun!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Gamewize And from the beginning im still glad people have had the restraint from turning this topic into a flame war. Games are made to appeal to the Masses, although I think you PvPers deserve a game with all PvP, it will not happen so long as money is an objective. Now I dont really like Open PvP too much (2 days ago I was ganked by 2 people from a corp my corp was at war with at war with on EVE online, though I wanted to just stay out of this war, I was just minding my own damn buisiness running missions, I lost 9 million isk worth of stuff). Hybrid games of Open PvP and some PvE would be a solution, but they are very difficult to make and still be fun. I dont like being called a carebear simple becuase I just want to play a game I want to. And yes, lately you PvPer people have been doing far more whining than us "Carebears". Let us be will you? Enough of this bloody "PvE VS PvP" Buisiness.
So you want a single player version of eve online with a chat room?
No, I love EVE online for being able to figure out how to effectivaly combine PvP and PvE. Im just stating why open PvP can be bad for many. I know I suck at EVE PvP right now, but the game allows me to not PvP and PvE instead until I feel ready to PvP.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by leipuri FFA PvP is the "one, true way" for mmorpgs. PvE only games are like single player games. More freedom for players and power to players.
I am sorry to rain on your parade, but there is no "one, true way" for anything, much less for games and entertainment. I do not see why there shouldn't be an MMO for every taste out there. The radical ideas behind my views are called "democracy" and "free market", perhaps you have heard of them? And no, PvE and co-op play are for MMOs too as is communicating and socializing. Dare I say even... Role-Playing? Shouldn't there be some of that in an mmoRPg?
UO had best roleplaying towns pre UO:R and most died after trammel. Some moved to trammel, but soon reliazed what a mistake it was. Most of roleplaying communities in UO that are left are the ones that practise puppetry roleplaying and everything is planned before. I prefered it before that when there was guilds like shadowclan orcs that didnt have some sort of 10 pages script they would play before attacking you.
WoW have roleplaying servers, but I guess lot of people there are roleplaying "powergamers"? EVE have open FFA and it have some best RPG going that I have seen. Pirates are playing their role, mercenaries are up for hire, anti pirates always looking for juicy bounty (though this part could use some improving there), alliances have their own politics, industrial corps are looking to exploit the resources... I could go on, but even that lot of players dont play "in character", but they still have their "role" in eve universe that they are playing.
Originally posted by Horsas Hail my fellow Veteran PVP'ers. AC2 was a disgrace to the FFA PVP community. A disgrace to players like us who embraces harsh FFA PVP environments with FULL looting privelages. This is a victory for PVP'ers. This is one less carebear game in the world.We're slowing winning the battle. But there are so many carebears out in the world. We need a carebear slayer. Someone who will vanquish all the cowardly players who embrace WOW & EQ and actually think they are pvp'ing. I am of the old times, long long ago in Ultima Online during the dread lord days. LuzArius
I too enjoy a good FFA PVP game. Know of any in existence? No? So, what are you playing? Nothing? So, you're not even a gamer? Can you not enjoy any of the games out right now? No? Sucks to be you.
Hail my fellow Veteran PVP'ers. AC2 was a disgrace to the FFA PVP community. A disgrace to players like us who embraces harsh FFA PVP environments with FULL looting privelages. This is a victory for PVP'ers.
This is one less carebear game in the world.
We're slowing winning the battle.
But there are so many carebears out in the world. We need a carebear slayer. Someone who will vanquish all the cowardly players who embrace WOW & EQ and actually think they are pvp'ing.
I am of the old times, long long ago in Ultima Online during the dread lord days.
LuzArius
--- end of quote ---
This is just about the most reprehensible post I've seen on these boards. To celebrate the demise of a game that some folks (not LuzArius, and not me, but that's irrelevant) enjoy is bad enough, but to throw it in their faces by posting it is beneath contempt. The demise of AC2 is not a victory for anyone, PVPers or anyone else. It's a sad testament to what I thought was bad design, coupled with poor advertising, coupled with some bad internal decisions (like the fiasco that was the transition from Microsoft to fully Turbine). To celebrate as you do in this post... frightening.
Originally posted by Horsas Nothing would give me more pleasure than to laugh in the AC2 developers faces. "You cowards, you stray from your Darktide roots and this is what you get." I hope they lose their jobs and get banned from the programming MMORPG community. The worst thing to have is carebear MMORPG developers. They are the root of the problems.As for all of you who are against me. Go log back into WOW and do your quests and raise your levels and item hunt. That is what carebears do.But me? I'm out to kill players and loot them..LuzArius
I am seriously HOPING that this guy is just trolling, because the personality behind the first and now the second post is seriously demented and in need of mental help. Hoping someone loses their job, for whatever cause, is just childish. And falling back on the worst of all argument styles -- "ooh, if you disagree with me, you're all -x- and must be punished" -- is just... inane. Grow up, get some serious help.
And, for the record? Played UO for five years. EQ1 for 5 years. AC1 for years. EQ2. WoW (3rd worst I've played, after AC2 and Guildwars, and no, PvP isn't my complaint about Guildwars). Shadowbane. DAoC. MUDs before all that. You only expose your own juvenile dementia when you make blanket statements and assumptions about people and about "how things are". Good lord, somebody get this idiot a psychiatrist. Oh, and for the record: those little letters, RPG, at the end of MMORPG, stand for roleplaying, which comes in a variety of styles, including PvP but not limited ONLY to PvP. (Seriously hope this guy's just trolling)
This is a fairly inane topic for conversation for a lot of reasons; So heres my top 10 reasons this is a stupid discussion.
#10 Anyone who would coin or use the term carebare is clearly an idiot and not worth listening too.
#9 There is no bad PVP, only bad PVP'ers (ie. those who think that might makes right, and new players deserve to be killed. These kinds of players have all the moral stature of profession criminal)
#8 AC2 was a bad game, but it wasnt the PVP or PVE that made it bad, it was the insane (orignal) crafting system, ease of leveling, and complete disregard of the community by the devs that made the game suck. Claiming its demise is in any way a victory for anyone is moronic.
#7 Do you even know what MMORPG stands for? It sure as heck isnt PVP. That can be an aspect of (an even fun aspect of) MMORPG but it isnt necessary or required for one.
#6 As already noted, no player individually or even in small groups in any way controls what a given MMORP will contain. This is a business people, a BIG business. Market research drives game content, nuff said...
#5 Its idiots like the guy who started this chain, who have given PVP an evil reputation. It's hilarious that any game which has made ganking impossible makes his list of stupid games. (ie if he cant sneak up behind 5th level newbs with his max level character, gank them, loot them, and run away laughing it just isnt worth his time of day.)
#4 Because it was so reprehensible it got me to respond....
Horsas, why do you choose to play MMORPG's and not some first -person shooter? If all you want is this "kill or be killed" kind of a game, then there would be no reason for 3/4 of the content that the devs make up to be made. The way I see it is that you've been playing these "carebear" games for so long so I guess that makes you one yourself. You're just in denial.
Comments
Let me get this straight
"Carebears" (I'm going to assume you mean non-PVP'ers) are the loudest whiners?
Dude you have OBVIOUSLY never done customer support for an MMO in your entire life. PVP'ers whine the most in every single game I've ever played. I've been a Guide in EQ on Rallos Zek and Xegony (Rallos - PVP, Xegony - PVE) and I know people who did CS for DAOC as well.
Trust me when I say that the most incessent cry-babies on the planet are PVP'ers.
Guide Burnout on Rallos and Tallon Zek got so bad from the incessant whining from PVP players (not to mention the downright abusive behaviour by them) that we had to take volunteers from all the other servers to work part-time on Rallos and Talon Zek.
Those who want "Full" PVP are the vocal minority, not the so-called "Care bears". over 75% of players want PVP in a limited form. Less than 25% want completely open PVP.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Nothing would give me more pleasure than to laugh in the AC2 developers faces.
"You cowards, you stray from your Darktide roots and this is what you get."
I hope they lose their jobs and get banned from the programming MMORPG community. The worst thing to have is carebear MMORPG developers. They are the root of the problems.
As for all of you who are against me.
Go log back into WOW and do your quests and raise your levels and item hunt. That is what carebears do.
But me? I'm out to kill players and loot them..
LuzArius
Hey, isn't Runescape open PvP? 'Nuff said
Dont you think the shotgun comment is a little to harsh? Everyone is entitled to their opinion their is no right or wrong.
Back the post. I believe you have a point (Original Poster) too many games now a days have poorley implemented pvp where the risk out weighs the reward.
AC1 hit the nail on the head as in the Darktide server. I think a lot of people do not like pvp but a game without pvp in my opinion is like marriage without sex
yup runescape is open pvp but only in the wilderness.. but their battle system is so crapped up that you can only fight 1v1s.. but I think they've changed that now. I haven't been there for a while.
but seriously, if open pvp is what people want, I'd like to suggest Unreal Tournament 2004. it may not be an rpg but hey, the game is all about your skills. And what's great is that there are very large communities for these type of games.
and how about that upcoming game Rakion? lol this isn't much of an rpg either but it's got midieval characters.. and it looks like it'll give what pvpers want.
Didn't realize there was a war going on.
----------------------------------
MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
Dont you think the shotgun comment is a little to harsh? Everyone is entitled to their opinion their is no right or wrong.
Back the post. I believe you have a point (Original Poster) too many games now a days have poorley implemented pvp where the risk out weighs the reward.
AC1 hit the nail on the head as in the Darktide server. I think a lot of people do not like pvp but a game without pvp in my opinion is like marriage without sex
Maybe a bit harsh, but I was just trying to make my point as well as opinion clear. Fact is that non-PvP games is no threat to the open PvP games, people like the OP is. This thread killed the open-pvp community a little bit more, wich is sad. And I stand by my point, if threads like these and people like that never emerged there would be more PvP games out, hence the OP is bad for the PvE community but a disaster for the PvP one.
What do they say, "with friends like that you do not need any enemies"?
And I agree, Darktide was the way to do it, and any game can do it like that, just open a server and pull all the plugs, easy as that. Leave everyone with a choice even.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For most people, it's the rush you get where you know you could be attacked at any moment, that your experience and loot could be at stake. That was what happend in UO in pre-trammel, you could be a tradeskill whore but they all have to go outside sometime to collect their materials to refine them and having a rogue hidden or a mage behind a tree just as you're racing back to town to use them is an utterly new experience that simple PvE pleasures can't reproduce.. You wouldn't be able to replicate the sort of atmosphere in any game right now (except for perhaps Darktide on AC1 or Hardcore on Diablo 2). You could've had a chance to play pure pre-trammel with In Por Ylem, a pre-trammel serer (yes, it's a free server) but it closed down due to it bringing the worst out of people.. Not by attacking randomly without guidelines but people generally downtalking and cursing. As stated before, you cannot find this type of experience in this breed of games that are out now.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Therein lies 95% of the reason I can't stand PvP.
Harafnir, it isn't about the PvP but about the monstrous lag. That's all everyone complained about.. and the graphics as well. I can look back at so many reviews and all they'd complain about is the -horrendous- lag.
And from the beginning im still glad people have had the restraint from turning this topic into a flame war. Games are made to appeal to the Masses, although I think you PvPers deserve a game with all PvP, it will not happen so long as money is an objective.
Now I dont really like Open PvP too much (2 days ago I was ganked by 2 people from a corp my corp was at war with at war with on EVE online, though I wanted to just stay out of this war, I was just minding my own damn buisiness running missions, I lost 9 million isk worth of stuff). Hybrid games of Open PvP and some PvE would be a solution, but they are very difficult to make and still be fun.
I dont like being called a carebear simple becuase I just want to play a game I want to. And yes, lately you PvPer people have been doing far more whining than us "Carebears". Let us be will you? Enough of this bloody "PvE VS PvP" Buisiness.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
So you want a single player version of eve online with a chat room?
no, that's not what he wants
Or 1 point for the peoples that want servers that dont enforce raiding or PvP?
As far as I am concerned, any MMO with raiding or PvP enforcing going down is a victory...oh wait, it mean I cant experience anything but victories? 
Anyway, the Bard's Tale is great fun...a tadbit short, but great great fun!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
So you want a single player version of eve online with a chat room?
No, I love EVE online for being able to figure out how to effectivaly combine PvP and PvE. Im just stating why open PvP can be bad for many. I know I suck at EVE PvP right now, but the game allows me to not PvP and PvE instead until I feel ready to PvP.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
I am sorry to rain on your parade, but there is no "one, true way" for anything, much less for games and entertainment. I do not see why there shouldn't be an MMO for every taste out there. The radical ideas behind my views are called "democracy" and "free market", perhaps you have heard of them? And no, PvE and co-op play are for MMOs too as is communicating and socializing. Dare I say even... Role-Playing? Shouldn't there be some of that in an mmoRPg?
UO had best roleplaying towns pre UO:R and most died after trammel. Some moved to trammel, but soon reliazed what a mistake it was. Most of roleplaying communities in UO that are left are the ones that practise puppetry roleplaying and everything is planned before. I prefered it before that when there was guilds like shadowclan orcs that didnt have some sort of 10 pages script they would play before attacking you.
WoW have roleplaying servers, but I guess lot of people there are roleplaying "powergamers"? EVE have open FFA and it have some best RPG going that I have seen. Pirates are playing their role, mercenaries are up for hire, anti pirates always looking for juicy bounty (though this part could use some improving there), alliances have their own politics, industrial corps are looking to exploit the resources... I could go on, but even that lot of players dont play "in character", but they still have their "role" in eve universe that they are playing.
Rank: 48/100Rank: 48/100Rank: 48/100Rank: 48/100Rank: 48/100
Registered: 6/14/05
Posts: 28
Hail my fellow Veteran PVP'ers. AC2 was a disgrace to the FFA PVP community. A disgrace to players like us who embraces harsh FFA PVP environments with FULL looting privelages. This is a victory for PVP'ers.
This is one less carebear game in the world.
We're slowing winning the battle.
But there are so many carebears out in the world. We need a carebear slayer. Someone who will vanquish all the cowardly players who embrace WOW & EQ and actually think they are pvp'ing.
I am of the old times, long long ago in Ultima Online during the dread lord days.
LuzArius
--- end of quote ---
This is just about the most reprehensible post I've seen on these boards. To celebrate the demise of a game that some folks (not LuzArius, and not me, but that's irrelevant) enjoy is bad enough, but to throw it in their faces by posting it is beneath contempt. The demise of AC2 is not a victory for anyone, PVPers or anyone else. It's a sad testament to what I thought was bad design, coupled with poor advertising, coupled with some bad internal decisions (like the fiasco that was the transition from Microsoft to fully Turbine). To celebrate as you do in this post... frightening.
I am seriously HOPING that this guy is just trolling, because the personality behind the first and now the second post is seriously demented and in need of mental help. Hoping someone loses their job, for whatever cause, is just childish. And falling back on the worst of all argument styles -- "ooh, if you disagree with me, you're all -x- and must be punished" -- is just... inane. Grow up, get some serious help.
And, for the record? Played UO for five years. EQ1 for 5 years. AC1 for years. EQ2. WoW (3rd worst I've played, after AC2 and Guildwars, and no, PvP isn't my complaint about Guildwars). Shadowbane. DAoC. MUDs before all that. You only expose your own juvenile dementia when you make blanket statements and assumptions about people and about "how things are". Good lord, somebody get this idiot a psychiatrist. Oh, and for the record: those little letters, RPG, at the end of MMORPG, stand for roleplaying, which comes in a variety of styles, including PvP but not limited ONLY to PvP. (Seriously hope this guy's just trolling)
This is a fairly inane topic for conversation for a lot of reasons; So heres my top 10 reasons this is a stupid discussion.
#10 Anyone who would coin or use the term carebare is clearly an idiot and not worth listening too.
#9 There is no bad PVP, only bad PVP'ers (ie. those who think that might makes right, and new players deserve to be killed. These kinds of players have all the moral stature of profession criminal)
#8 AC2 was a bad game, but it wasnt the PVP or PVE that made it bad, it was the insane (orignal) crafting system, ease of leveling, and complete disregard of the community by the devs that made the game suck. Claiming its demise is in any way a victory for anyone is moronic.
#7 Do you even know what MMORPG stands for? It sure as heck isnt PVP. That can be an aspect of (an even fun aspect of) MMORPG but it isnt necessary or required for one.
#6 As already noted, no player individually or even in small groups in any way controls what a given MMORP will contain. This is a business people, a BIG business. Market research drives game content, nuff said...
#5 Its idiots like the guy who started this chain, who have given PVP an evil reputation. It's hilarious that any game which has made ganking impossible makes his list of stupid games. (ie if he cant sneak up behind 5th level newbs with his max level character, gank them, loot them, and run away laughing it just isnt worth his time of day.)
#4 Because it was so reprehensible it got me to respond....
#3 you know I just cant go on....Add your own...
Rigghawk
Rigghawk