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THe bigest downside
Lord.Bachus
Member RarePosts: 9,686
in ArcheAge
Seems to me that this game is using the same old typical MMO combat system, nothing like Tera or even GW2 or TSW.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
I wouldn't worry to much, GW2 and TSW are looking to offer a great Themepark experience.
Archage is looking to offer a full sandbox experience with all the sides.
TERA I wouldn't worry about at all, the combat system is basically all it offers and it's really just the standard combat system minus tab. People will welcome the combat offered in Archage if they can get everything else that goes with it.
Archage being what it is will stand or fall on it's own merits and quality. It's different enough that the above games won't have any impact on it.
Mmmm ya. Combat is just one aspect of sandbox MMORPGs. There were people who played Darkfall, EVE, UO, and SWG, who NEVER did any combat in all their character experience. Rich sandbox games allow many other play styles besides combat. So.. the combat system isn't the make or break thing, like it is in themepark games.
this is a downer for me, but in the grand scheme of things it doesnt bother me that much because of what the game is "promising" to offer. With all my years in the MMO genre I can safely say that combat doesnt really matter, as long as its atleast average. In mmo's the 1 thing that matters the most is content. I dont care how good the combat is, after so long of playing the combat will just become so-so.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well, i personally think that thr old fashioned mmo system has had its longest time and the new offerings will make people realise how much more attractive an action paced kind of combat can be in an mmorpg.Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Archeage isnt a full sandbox. Its got some sandbox aspects but not full. Just an FYI for those that said Archeage is a full-sandbox experience.
Possibly, but no MMO is going to be everything for everyone. There are several titles out there with non-traditional combat not to mention the abundance of console games based on more action-oriented combat. If traditional combat is indeed the biggest downside to this title then we should all count ourselves as lucky.
from every video i saw AA looks a very good game... but thats it at least for me
i dont understand why OP meantions GW2 and TSW together sicne they have completely different combat system
GW2 is tab target n cast spell and TSW is not.
i honestly wouldnt pay money for game (yes even if its buy2 play) that doesnt have active combat.
I think you are right. Especially with Cryengine 2/3 something more action like would have been possible i guess. But they have ( i think i read about it) some other nice stuff, like interaction with spells for example.
But if we look at this from another way, AA is not very innovative at all. Its more like good old stuff, that was long lost and buried, brought back to like again.
Well MMOs are judged on over all gameplay and combat is actually a minor part of that, PvE difficulty and challenging content I think rates above combat. Why do you think everyone is sick of the easy mode MMOs today, it isn't the combat system it is the challenge in combat.
What.....that people will realize how much fun co-op hack n' slash games are? It's come full circle back to original games that casual gamers were playing before they entered the fore' into MMORPG gaming.
This "evolution" would have been ALOT cheaper & quicker for the gaming industry if they just enhanced the connectivity of RPG co-op games instead of hijacking the MMORPG genere for it's network infrasturucture & monthly billing cycles...and bringing MMORPG games full circle back to action based hack n' slash experiences.
The more action based combat is gaining momentum but it isn't enough on it's own. Multiple games are already out with more action oriented combat, many are coming out with it, but it won't be what makes or breaks most of these games.
Look at DFO, it has a combat system thats a good ways ahead of TERA and GW2 in the action department, but the game isn't doing top notch. It's not because people don't like the combat, it's because many other aspects of the game aren't to their liking. Though I will say I've known a few that left because they didn't like the combat.
The only praise TERA gets is for it's combat system and graphics/art.
The combat system is on the list of things many gamers want to see improved but I pesonally believe that there are other areas that are higher on the priority list for many.
I don't really care much about the combat, if its a true sandbox game I'll play it. I just watched a few videos of them building houses. Looks pretty cool. I'll have to keep an eye on this game, I hadn't heard of it before. Doesn't seem to be a lot of info on it.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
If ArcheAge's combat system borrows some elements from Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, such as chain abilities, combos, parry abilities, critical hit abilties, etc. then I won't be worried.
For those of you that don't know about Vanguard's little twists on standard tab-target combat, basically there are a lot of reactionary abilities. If you block, an ability lights up and can be activated during a brief period of time. Same thing if you crit, parry, dodge, etc. Furthermore, certain reactionary abilities chain with others, like a finisher, adding another interesting dynamic. You can also use abilities in a specific sequence which leads the target to suffer some condition. For instance, as a Ranger, if you use Blade of Winter 2 or 3 times in a row, the enemy becomes temporarily frozen.
These nice little additions add an entire new level of interactivity to combat making it much more engrossing. In short, the tab-target system can be fun, all it needs is a dose of creativity.
While not 100% like Vanguard, from looking at the skills lists over on ArcheAge Source, http://archeagesource.com/forum/17-new-articles-guides/ , it can clearly be seen that several skills are based on status effects on the target.
For example the L1 skill in the Magic tree
Lvl 1; CT 1.5; CD 0s; range 0~28m
Deals magical damage and add the "burnt" effect on the target.
Combos:
-[frozen target]: damage increased by 30%.
-[burnt target]: adds a strong burning effect (description doesn't say what this effect does, but i'm guessing DoT?).
-[Conjury: lvl 2 skill DoT]: Absorbs 50% of the damage dealt into MP.
So, if caster #1 Freezes a target, either they or caster #2 might be able to capitalize on the extra 30% damage.
After playing all 3, I've come to realize I could care less about combat as long as it is fun. It's fun in all 3, but I like GW2 the best. But of those 3, GW2 and TSW are blowing me away with their other design decisions, namely world design, questing design, crafting design and exploration/achievement system design. As long as ArcheAge does the same, which it seems to be with it's world design, then it's combat can be a direct copy of WoW or EQ2 for all it matters to me. But that's just me.
So why do we have to focus on what a game doesn't have?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
And why is that a downside? Let the people interested in action combat play their action games.
I'd be completely happy with combat a la DAoC or Vanguard (i.e. reactionary and positional styles).
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Agreed, even though they could have put some more work into combat, they have so many other interesting ideas and we will spend a lot of time in combat...
Still, I am happy if the game provides some fun and sell enough to prove the sandbox concept a bit. and if not I guess there always are WoDO.
I thought the same as i saw Arche Age at first.
Something along the line..
What a pity such a promising game, such a lot of old UO features reintroduced into the genre, such a lot of cool ideas, but why the hell do they use the old and somewhat boring tab-targeting combat? Why did they stop there with the evolution of mmo systems?
But maybe, it was just asked to much, they do so much new things, that it is maybe to much to ask for reinventing everything.
Another downside for me is the Asia style. As i first saw there take on mounts with typical Asia background. It looks all a little bit to shiney for my taste. I would liked it a bit more darker, rougher, more gothic.
But well, thats me, it is the typical northern european taste, and they are after all asian developers.
And i guess there will be a few more things which i dont like that much, but i hope at least the overall package will be good enough to be fun for a longer period of time. At what is the most important for me, they may help the genre to move on to another design paradigm, more to the old UO paradigm of MMORPG design. And, after all, there will be WoD, too. And this one will be most probably more to my flavour. After all they are northern european developers, and the know how dark and gritty we like our fantasy worlds. But until WoD will release(and that may take a very long time) Arche Age is most probably the best alternative anyway, even if the theme isnt my cup of tea.
Nice post.
As for the tab-target combat, I think it makes sense. You write that ArcheAge does so many new things, but in fact that's not the case. In a way, it's a rather old-fashioned MMORPG from before we got hit with the themepark hammer, back to the times when the games have been MMORPGs and not MMOs. You even write that ArcheAge re-introduces UO features.
That's why the combat makes sense too. If ArcheAge would have FPS/action combat it wouldn't be "back to the roots". Instead it would draw people from other genres (FPS, MOBA) that don't really look for a virtual world but are more interested in instanced arenas and dungeons, something that is contrary to the idea of a believable virtual world.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Did you play TSW? I did. - it's combat is actually worse and less fun than in example WoW one.
Sure you can move and 'fire skills' ,but that give you in 95% absolutely nothing + animation is awful , skill number limited to 7 in traditional tab combat ( GW2 have limited but is more dynamic AND you can swap weapons & stuff ending up with 15-25 skills depending on a class).Seriously I had much more fun in Lotro combat system than in TSW one and Lotro was descibed as one of most slow tab combat systems in mmorpg's ever.
Agree with Tera and GW2 though.
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Anyway - choice is simple.
If you cannot have fun with traditional Tab combat - then yeah avoid AA.
Thing is you will propably wait at least another LOOOOONG 4-5 years for AAA sandbox title.
That is if you're lucky.
Up to know we had only 3 AAA sandboxes in history.
UO
SWG
and title that eventualy emerged into sort after long years of growing and having indie underfinance pains
EvE
I am tired of waiting to be honest.
And tired of titles like DFO & MO or UWO (for diffrent reasons).
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I am not being sarcastic though with avoiding AA if you cannot have fun with 'traditional combat' anymore.
You will waste money , time and emotions and also hurt game by ending up dissatisfied with combat and telling others of this in forums ,game ,etc
Afterall it is far too late to change combat system in ArcheAge. This is so fundamental change that doing it in late beta is totally impossible. Even if they would want to.
If type of combat is more important - go GW2 or Tera and don't look back.
I will play GW2 AND AA both though. For diffrent reasons and for diffrent kind of fun.
Yeap, thats true, it is nothing new what they will bring back.. but it is that long ago that we saw such features, that it is almost new once again.
And about the combat.. It isnt that new either, it isnt that far away from RPGs, it was just not really featured in MMOs for different reasons(mostly technical), i always liked games like the old Ultima Underworld or others with somewhat more interactive and engaging combat. But anyways, it is as it is, and it will not stop me to playing Arche Age.
And even more, especially about the casting/magic system, i always thought a rune system like in Ultima Underworld or Dungeon Master would fit better to a virtual world, where you have the freedom and the creativity within the casting system, too.(+ reagences for the economy system) Just think about it, 27 runes with up to 5 runes in a row, this would a whole lot of spells, and a whole lot of experiments, and you could do the casting system somewhat more interactive, more creative, like in Arx Fatalis. But well thats something for another game later on.
This game seems to offer so much more than any other on the market currently. I Couldn't care less about what kind of combat system it will have.
Ya I'm definitely playing AA for many reasons, not just the combat. That being said, I still like the traditional combat model. It's tried and true, and can get pretty strategical in PvP. People say "but all of the attacks are aimed for you", which is true, but with the traditional mmo combat model it's not about performing/aiming the abilities manually, it's about which ability you choose and when you use it. And there's usually wayy more abilities to choose from. It's more like chess, compared to games with manual aiming which is more about reflexes and mouse accuracy. I like both, and I still enjoy games with the old combat model.