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A few things from DAOC that would really put Guild Wars 2 over the top

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  • Originally posted by warchant

    I played DAOC on mid, Lancelot for most of my time. There was a celt named Mistwraith that was very very good at his class and would always be a force to reckon with when he entered the area. I think it is awesome that I remember this name and even recall battles that I had with him and his groups. It was great to know the Champions of the enemy realms and to feel apprehension when you knew they were in the frontiers. It was also rewarding to be recognized for your feats of courage and heroism by your realm mates when you took down an enemies biggest hitter or a group of enemies.

     

    That is realm pride and personal glory and team pride and a celebration of victory. There is nothing wrong with that. You are way to tender and square if you can't understand someone enjoying a little pride.

     

    It is also part of community building. People would talk to that guy who's name graced the kill spam because he was experienced and fun to group with. those people often became leaders and organizers of the greater community because players knew they were effective.

     

     It's not as if we will be chatting up the enemy with "haha loser, u sux!". It's just for the home community. It's not a big flashy sign that blocks your screen. you don't have to read the kill spam. It is for those who do care about the who's and what's of WvW (RvR).

     

    Aside from that it is also a GREAT source of tactical information.

    But that is the MAJOR point.  Why SHOULD you get MORE tactical information.  You should have to figure this out yourself.

     

    You shouldn't just know some major player is at some place if he doesn't want to.  By labeling major forces you are essentially relegating important aspects of intelligence gathering to being autmatically and instantly done by game rather than by your side.

     

    It seems to me that a more interesting puzzle is to make players do this stuff themselves.  And that you will have a constant process of figuring out who is a major factor each time a cycle changes.

     

    Not only will you have to figure out who the difference makers are, but figuring out where they are will require communcation and scouting rather than just reading some name.

     

    AND they person you are scuting can attempt to disguise himself.

    being permanently labeled seems far less interesting. 

  • SoldorSoldor Member UncommonPosts: 81
    Hey guys thx for the replies. I will post this on GW2 forum as well during next BWE.

    Someone hit it right on the head when they said these points are mainly about recognition. If u ever played Daoc then u know what I'm talking about. The rivalries that developed were awesome. And please don't think that you can't develop an instant vendetta against an enemy, let alone one during a 2 week period. Also, there will come a time when the server matching will balance out and you will see the same 3 servers getting pitted against each other cause if they aren't all 3 of them either win easily against others or lose big.
  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Member Posts: 688

    I'd like to see each server get a permanent color instead of the same Red/Blue/Green.  There are a lot of colors out there so there are more than enough.  I want to have pride in my color, especially if my enemies see me as an aspect of that color. 

     

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  • Originally posted by Soldor

    Hey guys thx for the replies. I will post this on GW2 forum as well during next BWE.



    Someone hit it right on the head when they said these points are mainly about recognition. If u ever played Daoc then u know what I'm talking about. The rivalries that developed were awesome. And please don't think that you can't develop an instant vendetta against an enemy, let alone one during a 2 week period. Also, there will come a time when the server matching will balance out and you will see the same 3 servers getting pitted against each other cause if they aren't all 3 of them either win easily against others or lose big.

    Again I would like to stress that the assumption that the game should do this recognition for you can very much change the face of a protracted engagement.

     

    Things like this are the entire reason we use uniforms.  That medieval people had things like heraldry and personal banners.  That things like the Geneva convetions remove its protection from not in uniform.

     

    Instant recognition is not an automatic win.  Its a double edges sword.  You will vastly simplifiy to overall tactical melieu if you do instant recognition.

    At the same time recognition is important.  Thus we have things like banners and heraldry.  Sometimes it is done to inspire fear and cause a premature retreat.

     

    I think names on everyone is actually bad.  Quite bad.   Ithink the better solution is to allow people to buy banner to identify themselves or a guild if they want.  By and large the true tactical melieu should remain hard to fathom and somewhat opaque.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Some good points. And I can't see how they would be anything but great additions.

    I didn't like the anonymous aspect of WvW so much in the beta. Green invader, red invader ... meh. It kind of makes you into an insignificant soldier ant and prevents people from making a good or bad name for themselves. It's simply sacrificing social values for more potential "player confict avoidance".

    Did they say anything yet about wanting to keep this feature or are they going to ditch it?

    Pony, it worked great in DAoC.... i still don't see why they could not add this.  But then we all know GW2 will be far from perfect for most of us, yet it will be the best MMO ever.

     

    And please remove that picture from my kid out of your signature...

    Rofl :)

  • shamallshamall Member CommonPosts: 516

    Death spam in DAoC was not there just for epeens sake. It let you know who was in the area and which side was getting their ass handed to them. But I must admit it was awesome seeing all the death spam from nailing a crowd of people with a catapult.

    good times man......good times..........

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  • nephren25nephren25 Member UncommonPosts: 143


    Originally posted by BigHatLogan
    I'd like to see each server get a permanent color instead of the same Red/Blue/Green.  There are a lot of colors out there so there are more than enough.  I want to have pride in my color, especially if my enemies see me as an aspect of that color. 
     

    i would love to see the ppl transfer off a server cause there server is pink. hahaha or ppl transefering to a server cause they like that color more

  • ChannceChannce Member CommonPosts: 570

    Deathspam was a useful tool, you had more than one battlegroup (bg) working together, one was on the way to help another, and depending on the deathspam you knew if your side was winning, losing or in a draw before to got there to help.  That in turn told you your plan of attack.

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  • WolvardsWolvards Member Posts: 650

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    It at least make showing your name a toggle, I understand they are worried about people being victimised, but... some of us want to be targeted.

     

    Was bullying ever a problem in DAoC? I am asking because that may be a reason why they abandoned it alltogether.

    Not for as long as i've played it, a solid 6 years, and that was across 2 different server clusters. Now yeah you got the occasional leetist in your own realm that would rage, or someone maybe trying a different realm from a different server that would rage, but as far as cyber bullying no, it wasn't a targeted person, at least as far as my experience goes. Sure there were probably some, but none that i heard of. In DAoC, its more a pride thing than anything else. Its not, "hey n00b im rr10 your rr4 stfu", it rarely has anything to do between the realm themselves, it's a way to show the other realms that hey, "i know how to knock some skulls together on this toon" type of attitude, and typically people know who they are.

    Just for reference lol, two nights ago we got hit by albs unexpectedly, i asked what their numbers were about, and all they had to say was "Billings". Well Billings leads zergs so i knew they had a lot of people, it's that kind of stuff that makes that game what it is. Never played with the guy, but i know how he attacks, pretty well too. Sometimes he pulls a hat trick, but not often.

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  • pierthpierth Member UncommonPosts: 1,494

    Originally posted by nephren25

     




    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    I'd like to see each server get a permanent color instead of the same Red/Blue/Green.  There are a lot of colors out there so there are more than enough.  I want to have pride in my color, especially if my enemies see me as an aspect of that color. 

     




     

    i would love to see the ppl transfer off a server cause there server is pink. hahaha or ppl transefering to a server cause they like that color more

    Or worse yet, all the crap people would get for having pride for the white server.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207

    for those of us that want;

    to see the names of our enemies and build our own reputations

    to have permenent factions and build rivalries

    to have RVR viewd as the pinacle of PVP and esports as a side show / leveling thing rather than RVR being "casual pvp" as oposed to "competative pvp"

    We only have to wait a year for TESO, GW2 will more than do for the time being, better than any other current themepark PVP wise.

     

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574

    Originally posted by Soldor

    Hey all,

    Huge fan of Dark Age of Camelot, have been playing for years, and knowing that a lot of the inspiration for WvWvW in GW2 was drawn from DAOC, I thought that there are a few more things that GW2 could copy that would really put this game over the top for the long run. Please let me know if you agree.

    1) Realm Points - there needs to be a way for us to keep track of how much we have contributed to the WvW scene from day 1. It is what seperates the veteran PVPer from the casual or newcomer to the game. For those who don't know what realm points are, basically they are just points (not experience, just points) that you get from killing enemy players, from capturing keeps/towers, etc. Realm Points also help you gain Realm Ranks and Realm Abilities.

    2) Realm Ranks & Titles - The Ranking system in DAOC was great for many reasons. One was because if you were in a group and you saw an enemy group full of high realm ranks and you knew that your group wasn't on their level, you could avoid them and save yourself some aggravation from getting steamrolled in a fight. Another reason is because Realm Titles are just cool to have.

    3) Realm Abilities (or something to spend realm skill points on) - now before you go nuts hear me out. I know that GW2 WvW auto-levels you to 80, and doesn't want gear or special I-win abilities to outbalance the WvW system. And I agree to all of that. However I was thinking that again as you progress in WvW, you should be rewarded for your efforts. Perhaps set up something where you can get a Realm Ability that decreases re-use timer on your self-heal by 2 seconds. Or maybe you can spend your RA points on something cosmetic to distinguish you from other players. I'm not looking for game-breaking realm abilities like SoS or group purge or anything like that. Just minor tweaks here and there so that someone who has been WvW-ing for 5 years can be distinguishable from someone who is new to the scene.

    4) The ability to see enemy names. In DAOC, when you saw an enemey, you saw their race and what realm rank they were. For example, Elf Brehon (race & rank title), and I think that would be perfect for this game. However, if you were to look at your chat box, you would see the actual name of the person you clicked on, like JimmytheElf. To me, this is VERY IMPORTANT in a pvp-centric game because it creates RIVALRIES. In DAOC when you killed certain people you were like OOOH YEAAAHH boy. And when some people killed you, it was sweet to know who it was so you could go get revenge.

    5) Death Spam - in DAOC whenever someone died it was broadcasted in a seperate chat box for everyone to see. This was great because you could really see if the enemey realm was on a tear, or if your side was winning in a battle, or because if you just poured oil on 10 noobs and killed them all it was cool to see your name spam-killing everyone.

    6) Statistics - They didnt' add this into DAOC until later on in the game, but now in the game whenever you get a solo kill, whenever you kill a hib or a mid, etc it keeps track of how many people you have killed, how many towers, keeps, relics etc you have taken, and you can get titles from that as well. Would be nice if GW2 from the day of launch would keep track of what we contribute to WvW by tallying up our kills, keep takes etc. Just another nice little feature to distinguish yourself.

     

    I'm sure there are others but these are a few ideas that came to mind. What do you think?

    I think a few of those will eventually see the light of day but I disagree with you on being able to see enemy names.  At DAoC's pinnacle (just prior to ToA) there was no way to see an enemies name.  Yea you had death spam but GW2 does one even better, it actually shows you on the maps where conflict is happening which is ten times better then hearing "Zylaxx has slain XXX in Emain macha".

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  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 Member UncommonPosts: 719

    I see nothing wrong with the TC's suggestions. Perhaps ANet will even implement at least some of those things at some point. Right now they probably have other priorities though, namely finishing the game and preparing for launch.

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  • TeekayTeekay Member Posts: 94

    1) Yes to having names visable (but when i did pvp i'm sure i could see peoples names next to invader status??)

     

    2) Guilds need to be able to claim keeps and have their name attached to them, and broadcast when they're claimed. Just makes a huge difference, allows you to know guilds and who is very active.

    3) visable death spam.

  • ValkaernValkaern Member UncommonPosts: 497

    I wouldn't mind cool titles based on wvw exploits, but I'm ok with the rest of the mechanics being abandoned. 

    As for the death spam, I don't know anyone that didn't turn it off in our alliance.

    It was just useless clutter, it pointlessly broadcasted the name of the last person to hit whoever was dying - even if they hit for 10 damage or so total. I didn't think anyone really put stock in that system as it was no indication of how good any player was. 

    I don't have any desire to be able to see enemy names either, and I don't care if they don't know mine. It's not like I'll be continually fighting the 2 other factions on my server as in DAoC, every two weeks we'll be facing new servers anyway so there'd be no benefit. 

    I like that there's no equivalent of RR abilities as well, it's the better choice in the long run. Fun keep combat with all the various objectives in WvW combined with rewards that don't drastically alter the balance of power is enough to keep me interested. I've played less fun PvP for years after I'd already had every reward possible anyway.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    I've said it before... realm points that lead to gaining advantages in PVP fights was a mistake made by DAoC that was later on institutionalized in WOW and its many clones.

     

    In WOW it morphed into PVP currency and gear with special PVP stats instead of direct ability-enhancement purchases, but the end result was the same: it trivialized skill and gave unfair advantages to those who "got there first."

     

    GW2 is going out of its way (in both PVE and WvW) to create new mechanics that enhance cooperative play.

     

    Things in PvE like no mob tagging together with full experience and loot chance for everyone who contributed to any mob's death and the non-competitive resource gathering are both new ideas developed just for this purpose.

     

    I see many things in WvW that are meant to accomplish the same thing and the lack of individual PVP gear or abilities gained by PvPing is a key to that. It's all about enjoying being part of a community (server), achieving community-wide goals and rewarding everyone in the server for it equally.

     

    This is what DAoC was like at the beginning before realm points and battlegrounds. It had a very different feel to it than today's MMOs do. A good community there was not a matter of what people think it is these days: which just boils down to having non-abusive and somehwat helpful area chat. Calls went out to defend the realm and people responded as a top priority ... just for the fun in preserving the status of your realm or gaining an advantage (stat buffs with relics) for everyone... alliances were made.. massive raids were planned to the last detail and executed... it was a very fun group activity that makes today's choreographed raids of 16 feel like the ultimately boring pita they are. Our raids were 100+

     

    In most MMOs today game mechanics promote individual gains with very little incentive to cooperate. I get a kick out of all the fuss made about people exploiting bugs in PvP. I see it as a logical extension of the desire to gain unfair advantages--which the game itself already promotes with PVP rewards... it's just the unsanctioned ones that are a no-no, the sanctioned ones are fine :)

     

    GW2 is doing things right and doing it deliberately. Will some people still feel a need to stroke their epeens and not like the lack of individual rewards? Probably. But it's also possible that those who have never played anything other than the current batch of individual-focussed MMOs will enjoy the new experience.

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  • UOvetUOvet Member Posts: 514

    Couldn't you sneak into towers/castles through other ways than the doors/knocking down in DAOC? Unfortuantely I only played a few months..I wasn't so used to the leveling/grinding coming from UO so it wasn't for me. Does Guild Wars 2 have any kind ability (Thieves?) where we can sneak into the towers and what have you?


  • Originally posted by Master10K

    If you actually wanted/want any of these features to be in the game then you would actually post this on the GW2 Beta forum and not here. 

    Yeah, why post on a forum full of trolls and flame baiters, right?

  • orsonstfuorsonstfu Member Posts: 203

    Originally posted by UOvet

    Couldn't you sneak into towers/castles through other ways than the doors/knocking down in DAOC? Unfortuantely I only played a few months..I wasn't so used to the leveling/grinding coming from UO so it wasn't for me. Does Guild Wars 2 have any kind ability (Thieves?) where we can sneak into the towers and what have you?

    You could climb up the walls in certain areas as some of the stealth classes.

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