Beta /= Finished product. I'm sorry, but it doesn't. You bought the game 'beta access' was a perk. Were you given a working beta code? If yes, then that's beta access. Login problems, bugs, etc. are beta issues, and are not promised as part of the game. If, for some reason, you didn't get a working beta code, or come launch, don't have access to the game, THEN you will have a legitimate complaint. Only then.
If you pay for a club membership, and the club has to close for a day for maintenance / remodelling / w/e, you aren't entitled to your money back. Beta is much the same deal. While it is a perk of purchase, what you're buying is the ability to participate in something. Whether or not you participate in that event, or whether or not it has technical problems is not a guaraunteed part of that agreement. It never is.
Not only has this been made abundantly clear (and I know some of you like to play ignorant on this), but Anet has made it extremely clear that you are buying the game in advance. They've corrected people multiple times 'no, this isn't a pre-order, it's a pre-purchase. The reason why we aren't using certain vendors is because they don't charge you until the product is delivered.' That statement alone should make this obvious. You're paying, in full and in advance, for a product you are not getting yet. Beta is not part of the product, the code, is.
Anet is refunding for those who want to bail now...... Get your refund and RAGE elsewhere! GO! Be happy!
I know offourother people that were in the beta not. One issue on. Any of our rigs but we did follow direction and did what arena told us to doi feel there must have been alot of human error 5 out of 5 had no problems and enjoyed it all three days
I think all MMO customers should thank Arenanet. They have raised the bar, and other developers are going to have to step up their game to compete.
EA/Bioware, SOE, Blizzard, and other big players, should all take note. To keep customers, especially subscribers of any sort, you are going to have to be brave enough to change the mold from the successful cookie-cutter World of Warcraft formula.
Obviously, only changing the way combat works (i.e. Age of Conan, and now Tera), is not going to cut it.
It does not have to be a sandbox per se, nor does it have to be turn-based, even though I adore those types of games as well. But Guild Wars 2 is something fresh.... there is something about it.
All I can say is that I haven't been excited since the original SWG came out in 2003. Thanks Arenanet.
I still put my money on the majority of people not following instructions that were posted within an hour or two of beta launch
Cut off your firewalls, update "all drivers, video, sound" and make sure you're registered correctly. I have 3 accounts, 2 ran perfectly before the game began and 1 ran after. I had problems, they were solved by doing this. Considering i have had beta's where i had to make my own exe, this was great.
You disabled your FIREWALL to play a computer game, you have to be kidding me.
Let me ask from those who did pre purchase. was there any language in the pre purchase that specifically stated there might be issues with logging in? Or anything related to server loads and or queue times and waiting? Was that addressed in ANet's Beta Access ELUA or anywwhere? Or more to the point, did Anet cover this contingency in the agreement?
Are you really that clueless, naive, or just completly new?
You, an idividual consumer can't make an informed decision whether or not the product has RISKS.
You pre purchased a game with the perks of Beta access to play a unfinished product before it's final release. It doesn't get anymore obvious than that.
That's the risk you and I took.
Do you really need people to hold your hand?
Really that clueless I guess. What's your excuse? Maybe you could see, I am trying to make a point but I also don't want to speak out with incorrect information. See, ANet did in fact use the term "Guaranteed Access" When ANet used the blanket term "Guaranteed Access" to a Beta Event, (Not THE GW2 BETA, but rather a beta event.....there is a difference because you guys weren't there to test, but to play) they need to qualify their clam of "Guaranteed Access". The Infra-Structure responsible for said access is on a different layer than the application in Beta. I'm not getting into it here(Google OSI Model specifically the difference between layer 5 and layer 7 logins are 5, GW2 is 7 as is beta) ANet had an obligation to it's paying customers given the type of marketing they used to guaranteed access to the beta. The excuse "It's Beta" has nothing to do with log-ins. And neither did any of this have anything to do with server down time.
Honestly, most people who post in this site have no clue how real beta testing is done...and not these "I beta tested OVER NINE THOUSAND mmos before they were released" "betas". No you participated in pre release demos during the beta period. Most of the real beta testing was already done by the people you never even saw. Believe me, I work with developers day in and day out tracking, researching and working with clients to identify, document and submit software defects. Knowing what I know as to how the devs want defects documented and the process on how you have to submit them. Yeah, there is no freaking way, I'll ever believe some over hyped gamer with an early access erection is gonna have anything to contribute that the devs are anxious to see.
God, how many games do we hear later on....."We told them in Beta and they just ignored us".......RIIIIGGGGT, now you got it!
And for the record, I do recognize that expecting nothing like this to have gone wrong was unrealistic in the 1st place. Errors like this are expected. But my point is, it should have been avoided through better marketing beforehand.
Also, this in no way reflects on my opinion of GW2 itself as a high quality game. I just feel the event was mishandled for many people and I side with them on this one. That said, I also recognize that while they may have a gripe, there really isn't much to be done for them. I mean. Yeah they got shafted out of BWE 1, but do they really want their money back? No, prolly not since they still got 2 and whatever else beyond that. So, yeah, Let's hope ANet fixes the issue for next time and call it a day here.
was there any language in the pre purchase that specifically stated there might be issues with logging in? Or anything related to server loads and or queue times and waiting?
Was that addressed in ANet's Beta Access ELUA or anywwhere?
Or more to the point, did Anet cover this contingency in the agreement?
Are you really that clueless, naive, or just completly new?
You, an idividual consumer can't make an informed decision whether or not the product has RISKS.
You pre purchased a game with the perks of Beta access to play a unfinished product before it's final release. It doesn't get anymore obvious than that.
That's the risk you and I took.
Do you really need people to hold your hand?
Really that clueless I guess.
What's your excuse? Maybe you could see, I am trying to make a point but I also don't want to speak out with incorrect information. See, ANet did in fact use the term "Guaranteed Access" When ANet used the blanket term "Guaranteed Access" to a Beta Event, (Not THE GW2 BETA, but rather a beta event.....there is a difference because you guys weren't there to test, but to play) they need to qualify their clam of "Guaranteed Access". The Infra-Structure responsible for said access is on a different layer than the application in Beta. I'm not getting into it here(Google OSI Model specifically the difference between layer 5 and layer 7 logins are 5, GW2 is 7 as is beta) ANet had an obligation to it's paying customers given the type of marketing they used to guaranteed access to the beta. The excuse "It's Beta" has nothing to do with log-ins. And neither did any of this have anything to do with server down time.
Honestly, most people who post in this site have no clue how real beta testing is done...and not these "I beta tested OVER NINE THOUSAND mmos before they were released" "betas". No you participated in pre release demos during the beta period. Most of the real beta testing was already done by the people you never even saw. Believe me, I work with developers day in and day out tracking, researching and working with clients to identify, document and submit software defects. Knowing what I know as to how the devs want defects documented and the process on how you have to submit them. Yeah, there is no freaking way, I'll ever believe some over hyped gamer with an early access erection is gonna have anything to contribute that the devs are anxious to see.
God, how many games do we hear later on....."We told them in Beta and they just ignored us".......RIIIIGGGGT, now you got it!
And for the record, I do recognize that expecting nothing like this to have gone wrong was unrealistic in the 1st place. Errors like this are expected. But my point is, it should have been avoided through better marketing beforehand.
Also, this in no way reflects on my opinion of GW2 itself as a high quality game. I just feel the event was mishandled for many people and I side with them on this one.
You were Guaranteed Access, whether you got past the Login screen or not,...it's not Anet fault it's not my fault, it's no one's fault but your own.
You should have thought about that even before you decided to purchase the game.
I don't care how many games you have beta tested, even for that matter that alone you should have known better.
Originally posted by StoneRoses Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by StoneRoses
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Let me ask from those who did pre purchase. was there any language in the pre purchase that specifically stated there might be issues with logging in? Or anything related to server loads and or queue times and waiting? Was that addressed in ANet's Beta Access ELUA or anywwhere? Or more to the point, did Anet cover this contingency in the agreement?
Are you really that clueless, naive, or just completly new?
You, an idividual consumer can't make an informed decision whether or not the product has RISKS.
You pre purchased a game with the perks of Beta access to play a unfinished product before it's final release. It doesn't get anymore obvious than that.
That's the risk you and I took.
Do you really need people to hold your hand?
Really that clueless I guess. What's your excuse? Maybe you could see, I am trying to make a point but I also don't want to speak out with incorrect information. See, ANet did in fact use the term "Guaranteed Access" When ANet used the blanket term "Guaranteed Access" to a Beta Event, (Not THE GW2 BETA, but rather a beta event.....there is a difference because you guys weren't there to test, but to play) they need to qualify their clam of "Guaranteed Access". The Infra-Structure responsible for said access is on a different layer than the application in Beta. I'm not getting into it here(Google OSI Model specifically the difference between layer 5 and layer 7 logins are 5, GW2 is 7 as is beta) ANet had an obligation to it's paying customers given the type of marketing they used to guaranteed access to the beta. The excuse "It's Beta" has nothing to do with log-ins. And neither did any of this have anything to do with server down time.
Honestly, most people who post in this site have no clue how real beta testing is done...and not these "I beta tested OVER NINE THOUSAND mmos before they were released" "betas". No you participated in pre release demos during the beta period. Most of the real beta testing was already done by the people you never even saw. Believe me, I work with developers day in and day out tracking, researching and working with clients to identify, document and submit software defects. Knowing what I know as to how the devs want defects documented and the process on how you have to submit them. Yeah, there is no freaking way, I'll ever believe some over hyped gamer with an early access erection is gonna have anything to contribute that the devs are anxious to see. God, how many games do we hear later on....."We told them in Beta and they just ignored us".......RIIIIGGGGT, now you got it!
And for the record, I do recognize that expecting nothing like this to have gone wrong was unrealistic in the 1st place. Errors like this are expected. But my point is, it should have been avoided through better marketing beforehand.
Also, this in no way reflects on my opinion of GW2 itself as a high quality game. I just feel the event was mishandled for many people and I side with them on this one. You were Guaranteed Access, whether you got past the Login screen or not,...it's not Anet fault it's not my fault, it's no one's fault but your own.
You should have thought about that even before you decided to purchase the game.
I don't care how many games you have beta tested, even for that matter that alone you should have known better.
Again know your RISK!
Wait.....I think you misunderstood. The reason I asked my initial question is because I did not pre purchase. I was waiting to see how this one went 1st. And I am still trying to weigh out if it's worth it for the next. or wait til release.
was there any language in the pre purchase that specifically stated there might be issues with logging in? Or anything related to server loads and or queue times and waiting?
Was that addressed in ANet's Beta Access ELUA or anywwhere?
Or more to the point, did Anet cover this contingency in the agreement?
Are you really that clueless, naive, or just completly new?
You, an idividual consumer can't make an informed decision whether or not the product has RISKS.
You pre purchased a game with the perks of Beta access to play a unfinished product before it's final release. It doesn't get anymore obvious than that.
That's the risk you and I took.
Do you really need people to hold your hand?
Really that clueless I guess.
What's your excuse? Maybe you could see, I am trying to make a point but I also don't want to speak out with incorrect information. See, ANet did in fact use the term "Guaranteed Access" When ANet used the blanket term "Guaranteed Access" to a Beta Event, (Not THE GW2 BETA, but rather a beta event.....there is a difference because you guys weren't there to test, but to play) they need to qualify their clam of "Guaranteed Access". The Infra-Structure responsible for said access is on a different layer than the application in Beta. I'm not getting into it here(Google OSI Model specifically the difference between layer 5 and layer 7 logins are 5, GW2 is 7 as is beta) ANet had an obligation to it's paying customers given the type of marketing they used to guaranteed access to the beta. The excuse "It's Beta" has nothing to do with log-ins. And neither did any of this have anything to do with server down time.
Honestly, most people who post in this site have no clue how real beta testing is done...and not these "I beta tested OVER NINE THOUSAND mmos before they were released" "betas". No you participated in pre release demos during the beta period. Most of the real beta testing was already done by the people you never even saw. Believe me, I work with developers day in and day out tracking, researching and working with clients to identify, document and submit software defects. Knowing what I know as to how the devs want defects documented and the process on how you have to submit them. Yeah, there is no freaking way, I'll ever believe some over hyped gamer with an early access erection is gonna have anything to contribute that the devs are anxious to see.
God, how many games do we hear later on....."We told them in Beta and they just ignored us".......RIIIIGGGGT, now you got it!
And for the record, I do recognize that expecting nothing like this to have gone wrong was unrealistic in the 1st place. Errors like this are expected. But my point is, it should have been avoided through better marketing beforehand.
Also, this in no way reflects on my opinion of GW2 itself as a high quality game. I just feel the event was mishandled for many people and I side with them on this one.
You were Guaranteed Access, whether you got past the Login screen or not,...it's not Anet fault it's not my fault, it's no one's fault but your own.
You should have thought about that even before you decided to purchase the game.
I don't care how many games you have beta tested, even for that matter that alone you should have known better.
Again know your RISK!
Wait.....I think you misunderstood. The reason I asked my initial question is because I did not pre purchase. I was waiting to see how this one went 1st. And I am still trying to weigh out if it's worth it for the next. or wait til release.
I don't think people should have been mad, but the fact they made people pay to gain beta access does kind of make their situation worse.
Never go to Disneyworld or other themeparks.....The VIP lines will tick you off...........With that said they are refunding any disgruntled customers money.....The point is kinda moot.
However I did have other things to do so I maybe spent 10 hours total running through some things. I encountered login issues where it just wouldn't connect for any reason.
DIdn't sweat it...if it were a released game I paid for I would have been a bit annoyed.
Get over it...or yourself Stay out of betas if you aren't doing it to help them solve all problems. Not all game problems are how unbalanced your WvWvW/PvP profession is or why XXX is under-powered. They need to figure out load...connectivity...lots of things that are NOT you in the game trying to min/max professions and be the baddest SOB out there
Test it and give actionable feedback. Not you are angry because you cant login. Leave the angry out...trust me nobody but you cares how you feel about it. The useless infomation wastes the time of people reviewing the feedback for constructive feedback.
I would have a solution. ANET could be to send you back the $0 you paid for the beta and block the account until early access time/release
I don't think people should have been mad, but the fact they made people pay to gain beta access does kind of make their situation worse.
Never go to Disneyworld or other themeparks.....The VIP lines will tick you off...........With that said they are refunding any disgruntled customers money.....The point is kinda moot.
I agree, it's moot alright. Anyone who want's their money back at this point should do so because they honestly didn't like wha tthey saw. Not because they missed an opportunity to play. Yeah, it sucks, but do they really intend to not play GW2? I don't think so.
As for me, I was on the fence about GW2, but every screenshot, every review, every video since BWE, has convinced me, this game will be good. So now the question is...Do i prepurchase before next BWE?
If I do, I have no intention to test anything. I do enough of that at work. LOL. I'll be there to play.
This is what happens when you offer beta access via prepurchase or preorder. Nothing new here and I have no sympathy for companies being taken to task over it. Matter of fact I'm rather sick of people always laying the blame at the feet of the players and giving these companies a free pass. It's getting really old. You reap what you fucking sow. They want to market beta and use it to increase sales? This is what happens when some pay for the product and can't play or have serious issues. Beta or no.
Let 'em rage. They paid for the product. Like I'm supposed to have sympathy for Anet when they essentially had the majority pay to get access to their beta. Give me a break.
LOL! While it is true that they used Beta access as a marketing scheme to increase sales, what people paid for was the full and final product, which is the game itself. If the majority pre-purchased the game in order to participate in the Beta, they should have been well aware of what to expect. How do they throw down 60 bucks for a game to get access to Beta and cry when it wasn't working correctly? If they didn't want to experience the usual symptoms of a game in Beta, they should not have pre-purchased in the first place. Yes it's that simple.
I would point out that if you paid for beta participation, you got just that, participation. Whether you 'played' the game or 'played' the login server, either way you participated. Your participation showed where there were problems in the systems involved and allowed for repairs to be made during the beta OR AFTER the beta. I am sorry, I have asked more than 10 people I know that have beta tested games for the past 15 years and we all agreed. Participation is all you were promised. Participation is all you got.
Comments
Anet is refunding for those who want to bail now...... Get your refund and RAGE elsewhere! GO! Be happy!
I think all MMO customers should thank Arenanet. They have raised the bar, and other developers are going to have to step up their game to compete.
EA/Bioware, SOE, Blizzard, and other big players, should all take note. To keep customers, especially subscribers of any sort, you are going to have to be brave enough to change the mold from the successful cookie-cutter World of Warcraft formula.
Obviously, only changing the way combat works (i.e. Age of Conan, and now Tera), is not going to cut it.
It does not have to be a sandbox per se, nor does it have to be turn-based, even though I adore those types of games as well. But Guild Wars 2 is something fresh.... there is something about it.
All I can say is that I haven't been excited since the original SWG came out in 2003. Thanks Arenanet.
You disabled your FIREWALL to play a computer game, you have to be kidding me.
Really that clueless I guess.
What's your excuse? Maybe you could see, I am trying to make a point but I also don't want to speak out with incorrect information. See, ANet did in fact use the term "Guaranteed Access" When ANet used the blanket term "Guaranteed Access" to a Beta Event, (Not THE GW2 BETA, but rather a beta event.....there is a difference because you guys weren't there to test, but to play) they need to qualify their clam of "Guaranteed Access". The Infra-Structure responsible for said access is on a different layer than the application in Beta. I'm not getting into it here(Google OSI Model specifically the difference between layer 5 and layer 7 logins are 5, GW2 is 7 as is beta) ANet had an obligation to it's paying customers given the type of marketing they used to guaranteed access to the beta. The excuse "It's Beta" has nothing to do with log-ins. And neither did any of this have anything to do with server down time.
Honestly, most people who post in this site have no clue how real beta testing is done...and not these "I beta tested OVER NINE THOUSAND mmos before they were released" "betas". No you participated in pre release demos during the beta period. Most of the real beta testing was already done by the people you never even saw. Believe me, I work with developers day in and day out tracking, researching and working with clients to identify, document and submit software defects. Knowing what I know as to how the devs want defects documented and the process on how you have to submit them. Yeah, there is no freaking way, I'll ever believe some over hyped gamer with an early access erection is gonna have anything to contribute that the devs are anxious to see.
God, how many games do we hear later on....."We told them in Beta and they just ignored us".......RIIIIGGGGT, now you got it!
And for the record, I do recognize that expecting nothing like this to have gone wrong was unrealistic in the 1st place. Errors like this are expected. But my point is, it should have been avoided through better marketing beforehand.
Also, this in no way reflects on my opinion of GW2 itself as a high quality game. I just feel the event was mishandled for many people and I side with them on this one. That said, I also recognize that while they may have a gripe, there really isn't much to be done for them. I mean. Yeah they got shafted out of BWE 1, but do they really want their money back? No, prolly not since they still got 2 and whatever else beyond that. So, yeah, Let's hope ANet fixes the issue for next time and call it a day here.
You were Guaranteed Access, whether you got past the Login screen or not,...it's not Anet fault it's not my fault, it's no one's fault but your own.
You should have thought about that even before you decided to purchase the game.
I don't care how many games you have beta tested, even for that matter that alone you should have known better.
Again know your RISK!
Let me ask from those who did pre purchase.
was there any language in the pre purchase that specifically stated there might be issues with logging in? Or anything related to server loads and or queue times and waiting?
Was that addressed in ANet's Beta Access ELUA or anywwhere?
Or more to the point, did Anet cover this contingency in the agreement?
Are you really that clueless, naive, or just completly new?
You, an idividual consumer can't make an informed decision whether or not the product has RISKS.
You pre purchased a game with the perks of Beta access to play a unfinished product before it's final release. It doesn't get anymore obvious than that.
That's the risk you and I took.
Do you really need people to hold your hand?
Really that clueless I guess.
What's your excuse? Maybe you could see, I am trying to make a point but I also don't want to speak out with incorrect information. See, ANet did in fact use the term "Guaranteed Access" When ANet used the blanket term "Guaranteed Access" to a Beta Event, (Not THE GW2 BETA, but rather a beta event.....there is a difference because you guys weren't there to test, but to play) they need to qualify their clam of "Guaranteed Access". The Infra-Structure responsible for said access is on a different layer than the application in Beta. I'm not getting into it here(Google OSI Model specifically the difference between layer 5 and layer 7 logins are 5, GW2 is 7 as is beta) ANet had an obligation to it's paying customers given the type of marketing they used to guaranteed access to the beta. The excuse "It's Beta" has nothing to do with log-ins. And neither did any of this have anything to do with server down time.
Honestly, most people who post in this site have no clue how real beta testing is done...and not these "I beta tested OVER NINE THOUSAND mmos before they were released" "betas". No you participated in pre release demos during the beta period. Most of the real beta testing was already done by the people you never even saw. Believe me, I work with developers day in and day out tracking, researching and working with clients to identify, document and submit software defects. Knowing what I know as to how the devs want defects documented and the process on how you have to submit them. Yeah, there is no freaking way, I'll ever believe some over hyped gamer with an early access erection is gonna have anything to contribute that the devs are anxious to see.
God, how many games do we hear later on....."We told them in Beta and they just ignored us".......RIIIIGGGGT, now you got it!
And for the record, I do recognize that expecting nothing like this to have gone wrong was unrealistic in the 1st place. Errors like this are expected. But my point is, it should have been avoided through better marketing beforehand.
Also, this in no way reflects on my opinion of GW2 itself as a high quality game. I just feel the event was mishandled for many people and I side with them on this one.
You were Guaranteed Access, whether you got past the Login screen or not,...it's not Anet fault it's not my fault, it's no one's fault but your own.
You should have thought about that even before you decided to purchase the game.
I don't care how many games you have beta tested, even for that matter that alone you should have known better.
Again know your RISK!
Wait.....I think you misunderstood. The reason I asked my initial question is because I did not pre purchase. I was waiting to see how this one went 1st. And I am still trying to weigh out if it's worth it for the next. or wait til release.
I was not part of this last BWE.
Wasn't all the "Only good news hype" what went wrong with SW:ToR?
I would think you would want ALL the reviews so one could make an informed decision.
Blah! My Bad!
Never go to Disneyworld or other themeparks.....The VIP lines will tick you off...........With that said they are refunding any disgruntled customers money.....The point is kinda moot.
I played the beta event and pre-purchased.
However I did have other things to do so I maybe spent 10 hours total running through some things. I encountered login issues where it just wouldn't connect for any reason.
DIdn't sweat it...if it were a released game I paid for I would have been a bit annoyed.
Get over it...or yourself Stay out of betas if you aren't doing it to help them solve all problems. Not all game problems are how unbalanced your WvWvW/PvP profession is or why XXX is under-powered. They need to figure out load...connectivity...lots of things that are NOT you in the game trying to min/max professions and be the baddest SOB out there
Test it and give actionable feedback. Not you are angry because you cant login. Leave the angry out...trust me nobody but you cares how you feel about it. The useless infomation wastes the time of people reviewing the feedback for constructive feedback.
I would have a solution. ANET could be to send you back the $0 you paid for the beta and block the account until early access time/release
Peace
I agree, it's moot alright. Anyone who want's their money back at this point should do so because they honestly didn't like wha tthey saw. Not because they missed an opportunity to play. Yeah, it sucks, but do they really intend to not play GW2? I don't think so.
As for me, I was on the fence about GW2, but every screenshot, every review, every video since BWE, has convinced me, this game will be good. So now the question is...Do i prepurchase before next BWE?
If I do, I have no intention to test anything. I do enough of that at work. LOL. I'll be there to play.
LOL! While it is true that they used Beta access as a marketing scheme to increase sales, what people paid for was the full and final product, which is the game itself. If the majority pre-purchased the game in order to participate in the Beta, they should have been well aware of what to expect. How do they throw down 60 bucks for a game to get access to Beta and cry when it wasn't working correctly? If they didn't want to experience the usual symptoms of a game in Beta, they should not have pre-purchased in the first place. Yes it's that simple.
I would point out that if you paid for beta participation, you got just that, participation. Whether you 'played' the game or 'played' the login server, either way you participated. Your participation showed where there were problems in the systems involved and allowed for repairs to be made during the beta OR AFTER the beta. I am sorry, I have asked more than 10 people I know that have beta tested games for the past 15 years and we all agreed. Participation is all you were promised. Participation is all you got.