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Funcom's expectations for TSW cash shop

DerpybirdDerpybird Member Posts: 991

http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_second_quarter_financial_report_for_2011

 

Outlook

· Funcom has announced the launch month of The Secret World to be April 2012. The Company expects significant, positive cash flow from the launch of this game. The current target of the Company for the first 12 months following launch is to sell 30 % more game clients compared to Age of Conan. In addition the Company targets an increase in revenue per customer amounting to 35 % of the subscription revenues through sale of products from the in-game store.

 

Now I haven't seen the cash shop on TSW. We know there's going to be one. We also know that depending on what package you purchased you seem to get some in-game advantage including weapons and a pet that heals you. But on top of a $14.99 monthly sub fee they're expecting an additional expenditure per player of $5.25 on a monthly basis. What are they expecting players to buy every month and is it optional or somehow required by the game?

I don't care about a sub fee, I payed one for WoW for probably 6 years. But I never felt that I needed to purchase anything extra from Blizz to play the game. I'll try and reserve my opinion until I see the TSW cash shop but this is weird. Now clearly they missed the April release date to finalize the game, and perhaps they have adjusted their guidance accordingly or changed their minds, I'm not sure. I guess we have to wait and see.

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Comments

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Member RarePosts: 3,306

    image (Still think we could use a straigh-faced blinking emoticon, but this will have to work.)

     

     

     

     

    This will not end well for them.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • zevni78zevni78 Member UncommonPosts: 1,146

    Ideally it should be like Glitch, totally unnecessary clothing items and such but due to the way gear is all cosmetic that creates a strong desire to customise beyond the regular in game gear, xp boosts don’t bother me as it will effect number of skills not stats and everyone has the same number of skills in use at a time. I just hope no weapons are in the shop as there are among the Secret War rewards.

     

     

    The modern setting may create a different culture, not bragging rights gear from raids or pvp tokens that you need, but stuff to show off, (especially for female players, again as in Glitch), to socialise in, and we may even see fashion trends develop.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Member UncommonPosts: 2,047

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_second_quarter_financial_report_for_2011

     

    Outlook

    · Funcom has announced the launch month of The Secret World to be April 2012. The Company expects significant, positive cash flow from the launch of this game. The current target of the Company for the first 12 months following launch is to sell 30 % more game clients compared to Age of Conan. In addition the Company targets an increase in revenue per customer amounting to 35 % of the subscription revenues through sale of products from the in-game store.

    Now I haven't seen the cash shop on TSW. We know there's going to be one. We also know that depending on what package you purchased you see to get some in-game advantage including weapons and a pet that heals you. But on top of a $14.99 monthly sub fee they're expecting an additional expenditure per player of $5.25 on a monthly basis. What are they expecting players to buy every month and is it optional or somehow required by the game?

    I don't care about a sub fee, I payed one for WoW for probably 6 years. But I never felt that I needed to purchase anything extra to play the game. I'll try and reserve my opinion until I see the TSW cash shop but this is weird. Now clearly they missed the April release date to finalize the game, and perhaps they have adjusted their guidance accordingly or changed their minds, I guess we have to wait and see.

    I think you are looking at this the wrong way.  Revenue per customer is an average not what every individual will spend.  So say they have 100k subs at 15$ a month, they would be pulling in 1.5 million dollars.  All they are saying is they expect an additional 525k dollars from the in-game store.  That could mean only 10k or 10% of their players spending 50$ a month, ore 20k spending 25$ a month, etc.  Also it likely wouldn't be the same people buying items every month it will switch up.  These are just examples, not predictions on my part.  But the main point i'm trying to make is that it is an average and thus it shouldn't really be looked at as "what would i spend 5$ on every month?"

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

     

    Outlook

    · Funcom has announced the launch month of The Secret World to be April 2012. The Company expects significant, positive cash flow from the launch of this game. The current target of the Company for the first 12 months following launch is to sell 30 % more game clients compared to Age of Conan. In addition the Company targets an increase in revenue per customer amounting to 35 % of the subscription revenues through sale of products from the in-game store.

     

    Wow, whomever came up these estimates seriously needs their head examined. Better get cracking on the marketing end of things if this is really their expectations and goals.

    Nice find OP. Thanks.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • SiugSiug Member UncommonPosts: 1,257

    Whoaah, I hope they hold back a bit. Sub + CS is bad enough but sub + extensive CS is much worse and I dare to say that even game breaker for some people. If this CS turns out as a mandatory to enjoy the game...well, I've been waiting for an MMO like TSW so long that I have to swallow this bitter pill.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435

    I'll be surprised if TSW's box sales exceed AOC's, they've really almost flown too much under the radar with this title and it really is being overshadowed by GW2 and D3 atm.

    As for the cash shop, they know how to do it right, we'll have to hope they use common sense in this situation.

     

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230
    This reminds me of a ruling in a case against GLW.  IIRC, "Over-optimism in forecasts does not amount to fraud".  IOW, they can say what they want to investors as far as what they hope for the future.  Doesnt make it truth, and it doesnt make it a lie.
  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_second_quarter_financial_report_for_2011

     

    Outlook

    · Funcom has announced the launch month of The Secret World to be April 2012. The Company expects significant, positive cash flow from the launch of this game. The current target of the Company for the first 12 months following launch is to sell 30 % more game clients compared to Age of Conan. In addition the Company targets an increase in revenue per customer amounting to 35 % of the subscription revenues through sale of products from the in-game store.

     

    Now I haven't seen the cash shop on TSW. We know there's going to be one. We also know that depending on what package you purchased you seem to get some in-game advantage including weapons and a pet that heals you. But on top of a $14.99 monthly sub fee they're expecting an additional expenditure per player of $5.25 on a monthly basis. What are they expecting players to buy every month and is it optional or somehow required by the game?

    I don't care about a sub fee, I payed one for WoW for probably 6 years. But I never felt that I needed to purchase anything extra from Blizz to play the game. I'll try and reserve my opinion until I see the TSW cash shop but this is weird. Now clearly they missed the April release date to finalize the game, and perhaps they have adjusted their guidance accordingly or changed their minds, I'm not sure. I guess we have to wait and see.

    I really wouldn't stress about the cash shop and jump to assumptions.   Especially when you're talking about lump sums and projections.  

     

    Funcom has stated openly that the store will not give any combat advantages.  This is the important part.  Everything else is speculation.

     

    I have recent experience with 2 Cash / Sub games - LoTRO and EQ2.  Both are solid AAA MMOs that were once driven by the subsciption model, but are now what is called "freemium".    Both games have seen great results and solid profits from their cash shops.  At the same time, both games can (and are) played to 100% without having to invest money in the cash shop beyond the subscription.  Neigher game's cash shop - while thriving and profitable - gives players a gameplay advantage over those that do not partake.  I would rather base my assumptions on these experiences that I myself have had than on assumptions about what might and might not happens.

     

    Furthermore, things like $5 per person from cash shop is an average.  If someone buys $100 worth of clothes in the cash shop per month, that takes care of 19 others making "the average".    

     

    I'll give you another example from EQ2... if one were to look at the financials, they would show that I have spent $300 in the cash shop over the last 6 months alone.  In reality, I haven't spent a penny on the game.  I've used in-game currency (earned by playing my character) to purchase gift card codes from other players.   So.. someone, somewhere has spent the $300, but it certainly wasn't me.  And what did i get for this money?   Well, I got 3 sets of cosmetic armor, 2 cool-looking swords and a couple of cosmetic mounts to ride - things that in no way give me any kind of advantage in the world.

     

    All the people that are super-stressed about cash shops underestimate people's need to have a cool flaming sword and the willingness to pay RL cash for it.   

     

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
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  • BarCrowBarCrow Member UncommonPosts: 2,195
    The AoC cash shop had fluff...pets...rings and starter weapons you out-levelled in hours..temp xp buff potions..trivial. The F2P shop has a little more but honestly i never saw anything in there that was P2W. Some starter PvP (and I think starter PVE raid) gear maybe was the closest...but that would be useless..gradually replaced into the same gear as everyone else in very little time.
  • DerpybirdDerpybird Member Posts: 991

    Originally posted by arieste

    I really wouldn't stress about the cash shop and jump to assumptions.   Especially when you're talking about lump sums and projections.  

     Funcom has stated openly that the store will not give any combat advantages.  This is the important part.  Everything else is speculation.

    If a person prepurchase the game and buys the "Upgrade pack" for $15 they apparently get a set of "High end beginning weaponry that will catapult [them] into combat".

    If I pay $60 extra and get the "Master Pack"  I get a 4th character slot, a set of talismans that "Allow all your characters to immediately be geared up and ready to face the most challenging fights" and 10 consumable experience pots that "speed up my progress."

    For $200 I get all of that and a lifetime sub.

    I'm trying not to jump to assumptions, but from the getgo I can chose to buy some advantages over other players. Then on average they're looking for 35% of their revenue to come from the cash shop. Now this doesn't have to mean $5.25/month from everyone, some people might splurge on a $25 item or whatever. Nor does it mean that they will reach their projections. But I do worry what they're going to put in there to make it desireable given that their projections are so aggressive.

    This game is slated for a June 19th release and I'm waiting for it, but so far there are some pretty critical details that I have not yet seen for a game due out in 6 weeks.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • SiugSiug Member UncommonPosts: 1,257

    Originally posted by BarCrow

    The AoC cash shop had fluff...pets...rings and starter weapons you out-levelled in hours..temp xp buff potions..trivial. The F2P shop has a little more but honestly i never saw anything in there that was P2W. Some starter PvP (and I think starter PVE raid) gear maybe was the closest...but that would be useless..gradually replaced into the same gear as everyone else in very little time.

    I can live with a cash shop like this. Wouldn't mind a higher sub either for a premium game. So far it seems that TSW can hook me for a long time so I don't worry too much. Have always hated cash shops though but what you gonna do - miss the game you have been waiting for years? :)

  • tarestares Member Posts: 381

    Originally posted by BarCrow

    gradually replaced into the same gear as everyone else in very little time.

    Well it takes over a month of daily grinding to get the T1 PvP set so that is a lot of time.  Not sure about the raid stuff as I didn't see it but since the only raids most people are able to do are 3-4 years old I doubt it would be replaced in "very little" time.  If it takes average joe 6 months to get to that point in game then it will be another 6 months to replace it.

    Funcom sells powers and stat stuff to buff your toon in AO and stat items in AoC.  Is it the best of the best gear? no but it is competitive and gets you there much faster than a non payer.

    I just reterned a non MMO game yesterday, that i enjoyed because they were selling DLC that made players stronger.  A game I would have played to death otherwise as it has everything I could ask for in my favorite genre but that mechanic breaks the game and I'm ashamed to have dropped $65 on the title even without knowing about the future dlc. 

    There are a lot of big titles comming out and the game must not be polished enough to show more than a few areas like AoC's Tortage demo, a polished game within a broken one. so will sales be more than AoC? Will subscriptions be more than AoC? If no, they will get more money by a combination of FTP and selling items that advance your toon as it is the goto plan.

    Since there are no classes and skills determine build and power, maybe new (optional) powerfull skills will be added to the cash shop, or tied to something like some over priced mission pack with one short quest.

     

     

  • thorntonthornton Member Posts: 60

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_second_quarter_financial_report_for_2011

     

    Outlook

    ·
    Funcom has announced the launch month of The Secret World to be April 2012. The Company expects significant, positive cash flow from the launch of this game. The current target of the Company for the first 12 months following launch is to sell 30 % more game clients compared to Age of Conan. In addition the Company targets an increase in revenue per customer amounting to 35 % of the subscription revenues through sale of products from the in-game store.

     

    I can't wait until April 2012.  Oh wait...

     

    I've never bought anything from a cash shop in any game that was priviledged enough to get my money.  I never let those things get to me.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    If a person prepurchase the game and buys the "Upgrade pack" for $15 they apparently get a set of "High end beginning weaponry that will catapult [them] into combat".

    If I pay $60 extra and get the "Master Pack"  I get a 4th character slot, a set of talismans that "Allow all your characters to immediately be geared up and ready to face the most challenging fights" and 10 consumable experience pots that "speed up my progress."

    For $200 I get all of that and a lifetime sub.

    I'm trying not to jump to assumptions, but from the getgo I can chose to buy some advantages over other players. Then on average they're looking for 35% of their revenue to come from the cash shop. Now this doesn't have to mean $5.25/month from everyone, some people might splurge on a $25 item or whatever. Nor does it mean that they will reach their projections. But I do worry what they're going to put in there to make it desireable given that their projections are so aggressive.

    This game is slated for a June 19th release and I'm waiting for it, but so far there are some pretty critical details that I have not yet seen for a game due out in 6 weeks.

    Pretty much every MMO ever launched has had a "collector's edition" that cost stupid amounts of money and featured unique items.  Some of those items ended up still being special for their novelty items, but none of them - in my experience - have ever given players an endgame advantage.   I can see where you're coming from in comparing a collector's edition special item with a cash shop, but the former is a generally accepted practice.  I mean, TOR charged like $200 just to access a special shop with useless junk, TSW actually gives you a lifetime sub for that money. 

     

    But we don't know what we don't know.  If a month after launch, people who bought the special edition have a clear combat advantage over those that did not, i'll come back here, admit i was wrong and cancel my own subscription to help support your point.  But i really really reallly doubt that'll be the case.  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • SiugSiug Member UncommonPosts: 1,257
    I actually bought initiate pack to get a decent rifle and jacket. FC is too shady about future plans on pricing model to buy a life time sub and we still do not know if this MMO has playable content for more than a couple of months. Can only hope that playing without exp potions from CS won't be a full time job. Cosmetics and some services like name change are absolutely fine by me.
  • Sora2810Sora2810 Member Posts: 567

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_second_quarter_financial_report_for_2011

     

    Outlook

    · Funcom has announced the launch month of The Secret World to be April 2012. The Company expects significant, positive cash flow from the launch of this game. The current target of the Company for the first 12 months following launch is to sell 30 % more game clients compared to Age of Conan. In addition the Company targets an increase in revenue per customer amounting to 35 % of the subscription revenues through sale of products from the in-game store.

     

    Now I haven't seen the cash shop on TSW. We know there's going to be one. We also know that depending on what package you purchased you seem to get some in-game advantage including weapons and a pet that heals you. But on top of a $14.99 monthly sub fee they're expecting an additional expenditure per player of $5.25 on a monthly basis. What are they expecting players to buy every month and is it optional or somehow required by the game?

    I don't care about a sub fee, I payed one for WoW for probably 6 years. But I never felt that I needed to purchase anything extra from Blizz to play the game. I'll try and reserve my opinion until I see the TSW cash shop but this is weird. Now clearly they missed the April release date to finalize the game, and perhaps they have adjusted their guidance accordingly or changed their minds, I'm not sure. I guess we have to wait and see.

    April was their first window. Near the end of the last week in march they announced the launch date was June 19th. I understand that cash shops are a huge turn off to players. It's a "fairly" new concept to P2P gamers. I too am really skeptical about it. I thought that having Exp potions and better benefits were game-breaking, but that didn't compare to a game I played that made you actually buy legendary weapons to compete with other players. That, is the true definition of pay-to-win. 

    If anything; at minimum I see cosmetic items (Clothing, Sparklies) , at max I see exp potions. They have even said that you will buy extra character slots. [To hit further detail; in TSW you only need one character per faction seeing as there are NO classes and you can train in every ability. So three is fair enough. Any more are really just null-point] There's even a possiblity that they might not release expansion packs, but rather digital equivilents of them. 

    In my train of thought; I consider cash shops as a (using the term very, very loosely.) 'donation' to the developers and recieving a nod back with items. Think of it as helping a kickstarter. Of course this was my thought with a F2P. I'd have to convince myself that a P2P doesn't really need a 'donation' and find a new term. = 

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  • NethriilNethriil Member Posts: 178
    I dont Get why they dont invite companies like Nike and Puma to advertise some of their new clothes / shoes in the CS, would bring in lots of revenue
  • UnlightUnlight Member Posts: 2,540

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    I'll be surprised if TSW's box sales exceed AOC's, they've really almost flown too much under the radar with this title and it really is being overshadowed by GW2 and D3 atm.

    As for the cash shop, they know how to do it right, we'll have to hope they use common sense in this situation.

     

    Doing it right has a much narrower green zone when they are charging a subscription fee along side it.

  • BarCrowBarCrow Member UncommonPosts: 2,195

    Originally posted by tares

    Originally posted by BarCrow

    gradually replaced into the same gear as everyone else in very little time.

    Well it takes over a month of daily grinding to get the T1 PvP set so that is a lot of time.  Not sure about the raid stuff as I didn't see it but since the only raids most people are able to do are 3-4 years old I doubt it would be replaced in "very little" time.  If it takes average joe 6 months to get to that point in game then it will be another 6 months to replace it.

    Funcom sells powers and stat stuff to buff your toon in AO and stat items in AoC.  Is it the best of the best gear? no but it is competitive and gets you there much faster than a non payer.

    I just reterned a non MMO game yesterday, that i enjoyed because they were selling DLC that made players stronger.  A game I would have played to death otherwise as it has everything I could ask for in my favorite genre but that mechanic breaks the game and I'm ashamed to have dropped $65 on the title even without knowing about the future dlc. 

    There are a lot of big titles comming out and the game must not be polished enough to show more than a few areas like AoC's Tortage demo, a polished game within a broken one. so will sales be more than AoC? Will subscriptions be more than AoC? If no, they will get more money by a combination of FTP and selling items that advance your toon as it is the goto plan.

    Since there are no classes and skills determine build and power, maybe new (optional) powerfull skills will be added to the cash shop, or tied to something like some over priced mission pack with one short quest.

     

     

    I don't see a month as very much time at all..Guess it's relative. I may think what you consider "much faster" isn't fast at all and vice versa. Perhaps I should have stated ..in about the same time as everyone else. . My main point being..the starter gear really isnt much of "a leg up" as much as a "foot in the door". The benefit of purchasing it was so minimal that anyone who would be upset that it is in there should probably seek some kind of emotional management classes. If the gear allowed you to dominate completely then that's one thing...but a percentage point here and there shouldn't matter much if there really is any skill involved. Having a slight edge and being edged out  are two diffrent things entirely..

    I could be wrong to others beliefs.  I guess I just never got caught up in the one-ups-manship . Never took the compettitve aspects very seriously in MMOs which allows me to enjoy them in a different  way.

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,865

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    I'll be surprised if TSW's box sales exceed AOC's, they've really almost flown too much under the radar with this title and it really is being overshadowed by GW2 and D3 atm.

    As for the cash shop, they know how to do it right, we'll have to hope they use common sense in this situation.

     

    Agreed. I feel like TSW is in the same boat as Tera. Both games are getting completely overshadowed by GW2, D3, and hell...MoP probably.

  • BarCrowBarCrow Member UncommonPosts: 2,195

    Originally posted by Nethriil

    I dont Get why they dont invite companies like Nike and Puma to advertise some of their new clothes / shoes in the CS, would bring in lots of revenue

       In a game with this setting that would be acceptable to me but many, many others would find it unacceptable I'm sure. If for no other reason than to complain.

       Now...if I see an Orc running through Azeroth wearing Reeboks or a Goblin Balloon with Goodyear on the side..then I'd be pissed. TSW has a modern "real world" setting so it's fine to see a billboard or Starbucks storefront imo.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855


    Originally posted by BarCrow

    Originally posted by Nethriil
    I dont Get why they dont invite companies like Nike and Puma to advertise some of their new clothes / shoes in the CS, would bring in lots of revenue
       In a game with this setting that would be acceptable to me but many, many others would find it unacceptable I'm sure. If for no other reason than to complain.
       Now...if I see an Orc running through Azeroth wearing Reeboks or a Goblin Balloon with Goodyear on the side..then I'd be pissed. TSW has a modern "real world" setting so it's fine to see a billboard or Starbucks storefront imo.

    They did it in Anarchy Online. They have billboards that run Ads. I've seen everything from their own AoC game ads to Military recruitment ads to Old Spice Ads to McDonald's and a few others.

  • AbangyarudoAbangyarudo Member Posts: 156

    I really don't get the double standards ... first off funcom stated it would be vanity items and convienance items now we have GW 2 with a cash shop. WOW had a cash shop, etc etc. Hell half of all master packs said they did it for just the snakeskin jacket. So imagine all the clothes that will appeal to a someone and end up being sold. All of these are realistic figures. If you pay 15 a month its expecting cash shop purchases from that so if we look at it yearly... for a years worth they expect 63 dollars per person made on cash shop purchases. 

     

    The only thing near any type of advantage is skill profiles (buyable in game) and xp elixers. 

  • SiugSiug Member UncommonPosts: 1,257

    Originally posted by Celcius

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    I'll be surprised if TSW's box sales exceed AOC's, they've really almost flown too much under the radar with this title and it really is being overshadowed by GW2 and D3 atm.

    As for the cash shop, they know how to do it right, we'll have to hope they use common sense in this situation.

     

    Agreed. I feel like TSW is in the same boat as Tera. Both games are getting completely overshadowed by GW2, D3, and hell...MoP probably.

    Actually this is maybe not a bad thing because those who buy TSW know what they buy, or  at least they have followed the game closely. This means less rage quitting and threads like "This game sux because I want everything NAO!!!". Less hype, less hate.

    Quality generates good publicity and if TSW turns out to be a quality MMO then people will find it anyway.

  • SeariasSearias Member UncommonPosts: 743

    This is what Funcom officially said about their implementation of the cash shop.

    "but what we can say for now is that it will focus mostly on convenience item and character customization items such as clothing - of which The Secret World will offer a ton of variety! As developers we are being very careful in making sure that items purchased through the store does not give players any unfair advantage against those who do not use the in-game store.



    Character power in The Secret World will be determined by how well you play the game, not how much money you are willing to put into it. Funcom already has considerable experience with in-game stores such as these and we have previously implemented these systems without damaging game balance in our other games, and as such we are confident the same will be true for The Secret World."

    Source: http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=20339

    So, I wouldn't worry too much about the items thats going to be in the store.

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