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Why TERA will ultimately fail.

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  • KehdarKehdar Member UncommonPosts: 441

    Originally posted by Teekay

    Originally posted by ghaleonx128

    I'm going to find it amusing if/when the "amazing unique combat" goes the way of Age of Conan with its directional attacking/blocking.

    So true.

    In daoc if you used 'tab targetting' you were pretty much considered fail.

    The kotaku article harped on about the political system, which was pretty impressive for something which isn't really in place yet...

    Gabe...i like penny arcadealot and respect their opinions (despite having been burned twice before on their previous recommendations), but Gabe played warcraft for a long time, and i personally think warcraft is a horrible, horrible mmo which pretty much destroyed mmos for years to come with it's carrot on a stick gameplay style.

    The political system is already in game, please don't talk of things you don't know.

     

  • CassiopeianCassiopeian Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by ghaleonx128

    I'm going to find it amusing if/when the "amazing unique combat" goes the way of Age of Conan with its directional attacking/blocking.

     

    The combat is nothing like AoC. Attacks were directional in AoC in the sense that you'd press different coloured XBox control buttons in a specific sequence to fire off attacks. I quite liked AoC, but not for its combat.

    Tera's combat is a hell of a lot of fun. The story blows, and regular world mobs aren't exactly a challenge (when are they ever?) but I don't ever want to go back to tab-target combat after playing it. I have played nearly every MMO that's launched in the past several years (WoW vet since launch, also). Tera's combat is the most fun I've had in combat in MMOs.

    I downloaded the OB, expecting this game to be a pile of crud...bought it 24 hours later. The game gets more entertaining the higher up you get (the starting area and such is 'meh').

    As for the endless GW2/Tera stuff, I'm going to be playing GW2 as well. And I will be incredibly happy if GW2's combat gives me the same enjoyment Tera's does.

    Tera isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, but those who haven't tried it could always wait for a trial/buddy key, and check it out for a day. You might just wonder how you ever stuck it out with tab-based targeting.

  • RedempRedemp Member UncommonPosts: 1,136

     I think TERA like all Mmorpgs will have its players. I will not be one of them, simply because when you discount the combat .... EVERYTHING else is the same old same old. Unique combat didn't save AoC, Aion, MxO , Potbs , Auto Assault , or TR  ... which I have the feeling has been stated before. I'm not proclaiming doom and gloom, just simply that if the combat is the only thing to keep you in Tera ... I suspect a game hop in the future.

     If they wanted to keep the business of my crowd, the ones who like twitch based combat but hate animation locks ..... well you know...... They still wouldn't get it because the game is the same old same old. Which doesn't mean its bad ... it simply means I currently do not like the tried and true method.

     

     

  • CassiopeianCassiopeian Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by Redemp

     I think TERA like all Mmorpgs will have its players. I will not be one of them, simply because when you discount the combat .... EVERYTHING else is the same old same old. Unique combat didn't save AoC, Aion, MxO , Potbs , Auto Assault , or TR  ... which I have the feeling has been stated before. I'm not proclaiming doom and gloom, just simply that if the combat is the only thing to keep you in Tera ... I suspect a game hop in the future.

     If they wanted to keep the business of my crowd, the ones who like twitch based combat but hate animation locks ..... well you know...... They still wouldn't get it because the game is the same old same old. Which doesn't mean its bad ... it simply means I currently do not like the tried and true method.

     

     



    Unique combat doesn't mean fun combat. I wasn't bowled over by the 'new and interesting' combat in those games. Every MMO has something supposedly unique; the question is whether that's actually as much fun as it's meant to be. AION's combat I found to be very clunky and not new at all, actually.

    You are right in some respects. Much is pretty standard fare. I haven't tried guild wars (I mean wars between guilds, not the game) in the game yet. But yes, I bought the game for its combat, and not for much innovation in any other regard. It looks great, but that's not why I bought it. On the other hand, most of your in-game time in PvE or PvE will involve combat (with the exception of possible RP, crafting etc), and combat can make or break a game easily (SW:ToR and Warhammer come to mind with combat systems that really put a dent in them). So it's not a small unique feature. It colours your experience of the game world itself, so yes, without it, Tera wouldn't be even a shadow of the game it currently is. :)

  • RedempRedemp Member UncommonPosts: 1,136

    Originally posted by Cassiopeian

    Originally posted by Redemp

     I think TERA like all Mmorpgs will have its players. I will not be one of them, simply because when you discount the combat .... EVERYTHING else is the same old same old. Unique combat didn't save AoC, Aion, MxO , Potbs , Auto Assault , or TR  ... which I have the feeling has been stated before. I'm not proclaiming doom and gloom, just simply that if the combat is the only thing to keep you in Tera ... I suspect a game hop in the future.

     If they wanted to keep the business of my crowd, the ones who like twitch based combat but hate animation locks ..... well you know...... They still wouldn't get it because the game is the same old same old. Which doesn't mean its bad ... it simply means I currently do not like the tried and true method.

     

     



    Unique combat doesn't mean fun combat. I wasn't bowled over by the 'new and interesting' combat in those games. Every MMO has something supposedly unique; the question is whether that's actually as much fun as it's meant to be. AION's combat I found to be very clunky and not new at all, actually.

    You are right in some respects. Much is pretty standard fare. I haven't tried guild wars (I mean wars between guilds, not the game) in the game yet. But yes, I bought the game for its combat, and not for much innovation in any other regard. It looks great, but that's not why I bought it. On the other hand, most of your in-game time in PvE or PvE will involve combat (with the exception of possible RP, crafting etc), and combat can make or break a game easily (SW:ToR and Warhammer come to mind with combat systems that really put a dent in them). So it's not a small unique feature. It colours your experience of the game world itself, so yes, without it, Tera wouldn't be even a shadow of the game it currently is. :)

     Very true, I certainly hope the game is a dream come true for everyone who plays it. I don't like seeing any Mmo struggle ... well, ahem,  anyway... It certainly has its charm with a few of the classes. The Guild vs Guild combat looked very interesting.

     

  • rexzshadowrexzshadow Member Posts: 1,428
    Aion had new combat o.o wait what? wasn't it just tab target?
  • rexzshadowrexzshadow Member Posts: 1,428

    Originally posted by Redemp

     Very true, I certainly hope the game is a dream come true for everyone who plays it. I don't like seeing any Mmo struggle ... well, ahem,  anyway... It certainly has its charm with a few of the classes. The Guild vs Guild combat looked very interesting.

     

    I personally think its sad whenever an mmorpg is shut down becase there are still people playing it and all their work just going to disappear and not even according to their own will =

    Here is quiet a few good GvG video if yoru interested:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/477/view/forums/thread/348509/More-GvG.html

  • CassiopeianCassiopeian Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by rexzshadow

    Originally posted by Redemp

     Very true, I certainly hope the game is a dream come true for everyone who plays it. I don't like seeing any Mmo struggle ... well, ahem,  anyway... It certainly has its charm with a few of the classes. The Guild vs Guild combat looked very interesting.

     

    I personally think its sad whenever an mmorpg is shut down becase there are still people playing it and all their work just going to disappear and not even according to their own will =

    Here is quiet a few good GvG video if yoru interested:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/477/view/forums/thread/348509/More-GvG.html

    LOVE the second vid on that link! Didn't try GVG, and am psyched they could have such a large pitched battle without it becoming unplayable. Can't wait to get into one of those myself. :)

  • LordRelicLordRelic Member Posts: 281

    LOL i love how you all assume that every mmo player buys and plays the game ONLY for the PVP combat.. umm well your so wrong its not even funny.

     IS Tera the best game ever.. No its not.. Is it the best PVP ever... well no its not.. Is it fun yes it is for most people i have talked to.   PVp is not the deciding factor of if a game will fail or not pvp is a gimick a trick to apease those who do like it.  As long as the company can keep content coming to make the game grow it wont fail.. but is the company able to do this we will have to wait and see.

  • PanteraRosaPanteraRosa Member UncommonPosts: 35
    I will subscribe to that!!
  • NevulusNevulus Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Kehdar

    Do you have any proof, any proof at all, to say that the most players of thirty years don't want an action oriented combat or were you just babbling?

     

    There isnt proof, but there is evidence, which ive already listed.  And i never said necessarily 'don't want,' but 'aren't looking for.' There is a difference there, and if you don't understand it then don't even bother replying further.

    And I do think personally that age is a reason for this, though there could be a multitude of reasons why.

    Im around that age bracket and I am looking for some more action /shrug. That's not even the hilarious part of this whole reply, this is: "There isnt proof, but there is evidence"

    Next time I approach a judge I am going to start off with that exact sentence, and after he lectures me on how evidence implies proof and has my business law degree revoked at least I have my non-action MMOs to spend my time on

  • ArkiniaArkinia Member Posts: 251

    Originally posted by rexzshadow

    Aion had new combat o.o wait what? wasn't it just tab target?

    yes it is, and it's bumming me out.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,654

    So OP, where are your facts?

    Everything you've said so far has been proven to be false... 

    Political system is in the game already.

    EVERYONE in DAOC Tab Targeted, don't kid yourself, well except for the people who clicked everything including their action bar....

    We've already told you why open PvP WITH objectives is the worst idea since pink slime, because it kills skilled gameplay and encourages kill swapping and zerging, open PVP HAS to be create your own objective or its meaningless.

    And your only remaining complaint is you don't like cute things...

    Well that sucks man, I like cute things, I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who do too, sorry you don't like them, that however, does not make everyone who DOES like them a pedo.

    Keep your opinion, we here at MMORPG like facts.

     

  • TeekayTeekay Member Posts: 94

    So i was wrong about the political system. Pvp still has no effect on it, it's determined by votes and rated battlegrounds (which arn't in game), so just by votes...

    If you were a scrub you tab targetted in daoc.  What are you even talking about. Clearly you were just a member of the zerg. If you had an ounce of skill you mouse clicked targets. This was the entire point of hotkeys...so you didn't have to click your abilities leaving your mouse free to mouseturn and select targets rapidly.  Wow, the fact I even had to type that saddens me.

    Pvp in daoc is still widely acknowleged to be the best pvp system in an mmo. Pvp with objectives and appropriate non gear rewards. You could be Realm rank 1 and with enough skill destroy bad realm rank 12's. I saw single players kill groups of 5.

    You don't think Tera will turn into just zergs and kill swapping?  When a guild of 100 face off against another guild of 100 what's that, not zerg warfare, it'll be a clusterfuck of swinging and spells.  When you do kill eachother?, What have you both got out of it?, bragging rights? Some jolly back slapping? You haven't defended anything, you haven't gained anything, it's meaningless. You dust yourself off, run out and it all starts again, your character is the same, no more powerful than before, no weaker.

    Every single game with open pvp has failed dismally to keep open pvp going, it ends up as people endlessly queueing for battlegrounds from the main city. Why go and roam around to find a fight when you can just duke it out in some battlegound. You had best hope that they don't introduce bgs, because that will be the death of opvp.

    All they had to do was make each area have some sort of keep, the vanarch would have been lord of that keep, and it was entirely attackable by other areas. If you could have deposed that vanarch by force and put your own one in, that would have been amazing. Keep defence/ upgrading, calling on allies to help, land swapping hands daily, political intrigue and backstabbing. Something worth fighting for. Instead it's just empty killing.

    [Mod Edit]

     

  • KehdarKehdar Member UncommonPosts: 441

    Originally posted by Teekay

     

    snip 

     

    There are plenty of games with OWPvP not failing, you are confusing less than 11 mil subscriber with failing. EVE, L3 and UO just to make some example, UO has a niche fanbase since 96 and there are no castles or forts to conquer there.

     

  • NevulusNevulus Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    Originally posted by Teekay

    Every single game with open pvp has failed dismally to keep open pvp going, 

    Really? Last time i checked Eve Online has been going strong and geting bigger while other games have lost subscrips.

  • rexzshadowrexzshadow Member Posts: 1,428

    Originally posted by Teekay

    So i was wrong about the political system. Pvp still has no effect on it, it's determined by votes and rated battlegrounds (which arn't in game), so just by votes...

    If you were a scrub you tab targetted in daoc.  What are you even talking about. Clearly you were just a member of the zerg. If you had an ounce of skill you mouse clicked targets. This was the entire point of hotkeys...so you didn't have to click your abilities leaving your mouse free to mouseturn and select targets rapidly.  Wow, the fact I even had to type that saddens me.

    Pvp in daoc is still widely acknowleged to be the best pvp system in an mmo. Pvp with objectives and appropriate non gear rewards. You could be Realm rank 1 and with enough skill destroy bad realm rank 12's. I saw single players kill groups of 5.

    You don't think Tera will turn into just zergs and kill swapping?  When a guild of 100 face off against another guild of 100 what's that, not zerg warfare, it'll be a clusterfuck of swinging and spells.  When you do kill eachother?, What have you both got out of it?, bragging rights? Some jolly back slapping? You haven't defended anything, you haven't gained anything, it's meaningless. You dust yourself off, run out and it all starts again, your character is the same, no more powerful than before, no weaker.

    True word from some one who never did any massive pvp. Massive pvp in Tera is all about stragety, if your team is well cooridnated  you can easly win 1:2 fights or even 1:3 fights.

    Every single game with open pvp has failed dismally to keep open pvp going, it ends up as people endlessly queueing for battlegrounds from the main city. Why go and roam around to find a fight when you can just duke it out in some battlegound. You had best hope that they don't introduce bgs, because that will be the death of opvp.

    All they had to do was make each area have some sort of keep, the vanarch would have been lord of that keep, and it was entirely attackable by other areas. If you could have deposed that vanarch by force and put your own one in, that would have been amazing. Keep defence/ upgrading, calling on allies to help, land swapping hands daily, political intrigue and backstabbing. Something worth fighting for. Instead it's just empty killing.

     that will be the arc, a floating island that can be taken over by other guild through pvp (not in game but coming)

    [Mod Edit]

     

  • ClocksimusClocksimus Member Posts: 354

    Originally posted by Teekay

    So i was wrong about the political system. Pvp still has no effect on it, it's determined by votes and rated battlegrounds (which arn't in game), so just by votes...

    If you were a scrub you tab targetted in daoc.  What are you even talking about. Clearly you were just a member of the zerg. If you had an ounce of skill you mouse clicked targets. This was the entire point of hotkeys...so you didn't have to click your abilities leaving your mouse free to mouseturn and select targets rapidly.  Wow, the fact I even had to type that saddens me.

    Pvp in daoc is still widely acknowleged to be the best pvp system in an mmo. Pvp with objectives and appropriate non gear rewards. You could be Realm rank 1 and with enough skill destroy bad realm rank 12's. I saw single players kill groups of 5.

    You don't think Tera will turn into just zergs and kill swapping?  When a guild of 100 face off against another guild of 100 what's that, not zerg warfare, it'll be a clusterfuck of swinging and spells.  When you do kill eachother?, What have you both got out of it?, bragging rights? Some jolly back slapping? You haven't defended anything, you haven't gained anything, it's meaningless. You dust yourself off, run out and it all starts again, your character is the same, no more powerful than before, no weaker.

    Every single game with open pvp has failed dismally to keep open pvp going, it ends up as people endlessly queueing for battlegrounds from the main city. Why go and roam around to find a fight when you can just duke it out in some battlegound. You had best hope that they don't introduce bgs, because that will be the death of opvp.

    All they had to do was make each area have some sort of keep, the vanarch would have been lord of that keep, and it was entirely attackable by other areas. If you could have deposed that vanarch by force and put your own one in, that would have been amazing. Keep defence/ upgrading, calling on allies to help, land swapping hands daily, political intrigue and backstabbing. Something worth fighting for. Instead it's just empty killing.

     

    [Mod Edit]

     

    EVE Online has failed? It has no limited factions and anyone in low-null space is fair game.  No, I am not directly comparing TERA to EVE as they are different kinds of MMO's but you stated that "every single game with open pvp has failed".

    If you are not happy about TERA not following the design of DAoC then you are free to not play the game.  Saying the game will fail because it didn't follow DAoC design is a completely different thing.  Because every game that has copied WoW design has been a massive sucess.  WoW design works as proven by WoW just like for many the pvp in DAoC was proven to work, however, this does not mean copying that design will make your game great.

     

    TERA is different than DAoC and if you can't accept that then just don't play the game.

  • DLangleyDLangley Member Posts: 1,407
    Please do not personally attack other users.
  • ubwarcher07ubwarcher07 Member Posts: 1
    All games will Ultimately fail...thats how things go..
  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 Member Posts: 365
    Will someone please make a post on why Guild Wars 2 will fail, because so far it seem that the only game that won't..
  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Member Posts: 915

    Originally posted by Nevulus

    Originally posted by Teekay

    Every single game with open pvp has failed dismally to keep open pvp going, 

    Really? Last time i checked Eve Online has been going strong and geting bigger while other games have lost subscrips.

     

    You really cannot compare Eve Online to almost any other MMORPG out there. I listed way back then several reasons as to why. Not sure if I should just repost the reasons or not. I've seen several folks compare (or try to use EVE Online) as an example and this simply cannot be done on so many levels.

     

    From 2003 till now there have been only 2 MMO games that started out with a pretty rocky start (launch/release) and have been able to pull through and currently hold (strictly) it's P2P business model. EVE Online being one of them and releasing 15 expansions to boot. Being a sand box MMORPG as well as labeled under the sci-fi sub genre as well as taking place in outer space really separates it from almost everything else.

     

    The only other direct competition EVE Online has is Black Prophecy and maybe one other game at best. So EVE Online has quite a bit of breathing room. If you look at the typical theme park games (whether set in a medieval/fantasy/futuristic world) there is literally an abundance out there.

     

    I listed probably twice already all the formulaic ingredients that almost every single P2P MMORPG model has followed especially from 2005 till present, and how almost every single one failed to maintain a healthy population for the long run, and TERA Online is no different. I still wonder why folks have in the past compared EVE Online to this game.

    image

  • KehdarKehdar Member UncommonPosts: 441

    Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor

     

    You really cannot compare Eve Online to almost any other MMORPG out there. I listed way back then several reasons as to why. Not sure if I should just repost the reasons or not. I've seen several folks compare (or try to use EVE Online) as an example and this simply cannot be done on so many levels.

     

    I don't think he was comparing EVE to TERA, he was just answering to Teekay assetion about all open pvp games failing.

    I doubt anyone wants to compare EVE to TERA.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Member UncommonPosts: 1,131

    Originally posted by Xstatic912

    Will someone please make a post on why Guild Wars 2 will fail, because so far it seem that the only game that won't..

    This actually has been done 500 times already ....more Tera players post in GW2 forms then here .I guess misery deserves company ,if you are so unhappy with Tera now " Wait untill you start paying $15 a month "

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449

    Man you people are using up a whole lot of energy comparing apples and oranges.

     

    EVE is completely different from TERA. That's why they compliment each other so well. EVE has the meaningful sandbox PvP while TERA has the jump-right-in-action that EVE lacks.

     

    Why do people look for 1 game to satisfy every single desire possible through MMOs. It's unrealistic and no wonder so many mmoers are thoroughly disappointed with every game that comes out.

     

    As an avid EVE player, I certainly welcome the balance that TERA will strike with EVE (where there pretty much is no group PvE).

This discussion has been closed.