I completely agree that just because previous games that have been hyped, have been a disappointment, does NOT mean that any game that is hyped will be a disappointment. That is flawed logic.
HOWEVER
Your example is also flawed. I dont know anything about basketball so I cant supply examples, but I am sure that there are many many more players that were very hyped before going into the NBA, that WERE disappointments. Just because 1 person DID meet the hype, it doesnt make that the rule.
Statistically, it is more likely that Hyped NBA players, and also Hyped MMOs WILL be a disappointment, but it certainly does not mean that ALL will, or will not be.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
I completely agree that just because previous games that have been hyped, have been a disappointment, does NOT mean that any game that is hyped will be a disappointment. That is flawed logic.
HOWEVER
Your example is also flawed. I dont know anything about basketball so I cant supply examples, but I am sure that there are many many more players that were very hyped before going into the NBA, that WERE disappointments. Just because 1 person DID meet the hype, it doesnt make that the rule.
Statistically, it is more likely that Hyped NBA players, and also Hyped MMOs WILL be a disappointment, but it certainly does not mean that ALL will, or will not be.
When one is gambling (or writing insurance actuary tables) you play the percentages, and the odds are most new MMORPG's will not be WOW killers or live up anywhere near the hype.
So it is not flawed to say that a new title is likely to be a failure, but there are definitely indicators that can more firmly predict where things will end up.
I'd say GW2 shows strong signs of being a financial success and new take on the genre that a lot of players have long been waiting for. (I'm not necessarily one of them btw, so no accusations of being a fanboi please).
Meanwhile a title like TSW has some doubtful indicators at this point in time, so predicting its success is more challenging.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If a game is p2p, then it will have a mature community.
X game is not p2p.
Therefore X game will not have a mature community.
This is an example of denying the antecedent. X game can still have a mature community regardless of the payment model.
Another fallacy: GW1 had no P2W cash shop, therefore GW2 won't have one too.
Uhm... but they haven't talked about having any P2W items in their cash shop. Whether you view XP boosts as P2W is own business (It is a a gray area for me).
Your example stinks of troll with the smiley face an all.
Here's a fallacy:
One game with cash shop was P2W so all games that have cash shops are P2W.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I have noticed on these forums that many people use falacious reasoning to argue their point. What common fallacies have you experienced on these forums and in what context were they used?
I'll start off with an example:
"Previous games X, Y, and Z were 'hyped' and were disappointments. Therefore all games with high 'hype' will be disappointments."
This argument is an example of hasty generalization. Even though previous games were 'hyped' and disappointments, that does not necessarily mean that all future games that are 'hyped' will be disappointments.
I'll even give a real life example that disproves this reasoning. Lebron James was a very 'hyped' basketball player even before leaving high school. After many great statistical seasons in the NBA with many accomplishments including 2x MVP awards, it's generally safe to conclude that Lebron James has matched his pre-NBA 'hype' and some can argue he has even exceeded his 'hype'.
Here's a good one I've been pointing out all day long.
"since my experience does not match your you have to prove what you are saying is true or I'll call you a liar."
If a game is p2p, then it will have a mature community.
X game is not p2p.
Therefore X game will not have a mature community.
This is an example of denying the antecedent. X game can still have a mature community regardless of the payment model.
Another fallacy: GW1 had no P2W cash shop, therefore GW2 won't have one too.
Uhm... but they haven't talked about having any P2W items in their cash shop. Whether you view XP boosts as P2W is own business (It is a a gray area for me).
Your example stinks of troll with the smiley face an all.
Here's a fallacy:
One game with cash shop was P2W so all games that have cash shops are P2W.
You probably didn't notice it, but this thread is about forum fallacies and not about GW2.
But how you jump to conclusions about my views is another fine example.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
If a game is p2p, then it will have a mature community.
X game is not p2p.
Therefore X game will not have a mature community.
This is an example of denying the antecedent. X game can still have a mature community regardless of the payment model.
Another fallacy: GW1 had no P2W cash shop, therefore GW2 won't have one too.
Uhm... but they haven't talked about having any P2W items in their cash shop. Whether you view XP boosts as P2W is own business (It is a a gray area for me).
Your example stinks of troll with the smiley face an all.
Here's a fallacy:
One game with cash shop was P2W so all games that have cash shops are P2W.
You probably didn't notice it, but this thread is about forum fallacies and not about GW2.
But how you jump to conclusions about my views is another fine example.
Then why did you make a post specifically about GW2? And since you feel people are misinterpreting your comment, perhaps you want to clarify now?
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
The most common fallacy on this board is the mind project fallacy.
From wikipedia: occurs when one takes for sure that the way he sees the world reflects the way the world really is, going as far as assuming the real existence of imagined objects. Another form of the fallacy is when one assumes his own lack of knowledge about how the things really are as meaning that things are indeterminate.
Another fallacy: GW1 had no P2W cash shop, therefore GW2 won't have one too.
Amazing that it only took 8 posts for somebody to make a p2w comment. Regardless of your intentions, this is true. Even though GW1 had no p2w cash shop, that does not necessarily mean that gw2 will not have a p2w cash shop. It certainly could also be a cosmetic cash shop that is not p2w that Anet has repeatedly try to reassure the fanbase.
Until the contents of the cash shop are revealed by Anet, it's impossible to conclude with certainty either way.
Quirhid stole the example i was gonna use next :P.
Please note that I made no comment at all about PW2 (but you claim I did). I mentioned a fallacy that has been posted on the GW2 boards quite a number of times. Funny how that oneliner about a frequently used fallacy has some people coming out calling me troll and questioning my intentions.
Fans have so thin skin sometimes ...
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I have noticed on these forums that many people use falacious reasoning to argue their point. What common fallacies have you experienced on these forums and in what context were they used?
I'll start off with an example:
"Previous games X, Y, and Z were 'hyped' and were disappointments. Therefore all games with high 'hype' will be disappointments."
This argument is an example of hasty generalization. Even though previous games were 'hyped' and disappointments, that does not necessarily mean that all future games that are 'hyped' will be disappointments.
I'll even give a real life example that disproves this reasoning. Lebron James was a very 'hyped' basketball player even before leaving high school. After many great statistical seasons in the NBA with many accomplishments including 2x MVP awards, it's generally safe to conclude that Lebron James has matched his pre-NBA 'hype' and some can argue he has even exceeded his 'hype'.
Does Lebron James have a championship? Case closed.
If a game is p2p, then it will have a mature community.
X game is not p2p.
Therefore X game will not have a mature community.
This is an example of denying the antecedent. X game can still have a mature community regardless of the payment model.
Another fallacy: GW1 had no P2W cash shop, therefore GW2 won't have one too.
Uhm... but they haven't talked about having any P2W items in their cash shop. Whether you view XP boosts as P2W is own business (It is a a gray area for me).
Your example stinks of troll with the smiley face an all.
Here's a fallacy:
One game with cash shop was P2W so all games that have cash shops are P2W.
You probably didn't notice it, but this thread is about forum fallacies and not about GW2.
But how you jump to conclusions about my views is another fine example.
Then why did you make a post specifically about GW2? And since you feel people are misinterpreting your comment, perhaps you want to clarify now?
From the original post:
"I have noticed on these forums that many people use falacious reasoning to argue their point. What common fallacies have you experienced on these forums and in what context were they used?"
I mentioned a common fallacy on these forums and mentioned the context of it - just what the original poster wanted.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Does Lebron James have a championship? Case closed.
You clearly don't get this thread or team sports....
Micheal Jordan one of the best players of all time couldn't win a championship until his team played at a championship level. No matter how many high scoring tripple doubles he put up they still lost to better teams.
Championships go to the best team not the best player.
It is a common fallacie that one player can carry a whole team though.
Comments
I completely agree that just because previous games that have been hyped, have been a disappointment, does NOT mean that any game that is hyped will be a disappointment. That is flawed logic.
HOWEVER
Your example is also flawed. I dont know anything about basketball so I cant supply examples, but I am sure that there are many many more players that were very hyped before going into the NBA, that WERE disappointments. Just because 1 person DID meet the hype, it doesnt make that the rule.
Statistically, it is more likely that Hyped NBA players, and also Hyped MMOs WILL be a disappointment, but it certainly does not mean that ALL will, or will not be.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
I think that's the nature of the beast really. People tend to be skeptical of the unknown. Your choice of Lebron James is a good example.
"Now back to our regularly scheduled game bashing and trolling on mmorpg.com...Nancy"
When one is gambling (or writing insurance actuary tables) you play the percentages, and the odds are most new MMORPG's will not be WOW killers or live up anywhere near the hype.
So it is not flawed to say that a new title is likely to be a failure, but there are definitely indicators that can more firmly predict where things will end up.
I'd say GW2 shows strong signs of being a financial success and new take on the genre that a lot of players have long been waiting for. (I'm not necessarily one of them btw, so no accusations of being a fanboi please).
Meanwhile a title like TSW has some doubtful indicators at this point in time, so predicting its success is more challenging.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Another fallacy: GW1 had no P2W cash shop, therefore GW2 won't have one too.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Uhm... but they haven't talked about having any P2W items in their cash shop. Whether you view XP boosts as P2W is own business (It is a a gray area for me).
Your example stinks of troll with the smiley face an all.
Here's a fallacy:
One game with cash shop was P2W so all games that have cash shops are P2W.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Another Fallacy:
MMOs were better back in the day. No they werent. You just have rose tinted glasses.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
Here's a good one I've been pointing out all day long.
"since my experience does not match your you have to prove what you are saying is true or I'll call you a liar."
Not a fallacy, no structure, it's plain opinion.
You probably didn't notice it, but this thread is about forum fallacies and not about GW2.
But how you jump to conclusions about my views is another fine example.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Then why did you make a post specifically about GW2? And since you feel people are misinterpreting your comment, perhaps you want to clarify now?
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
The most common fallacy on this board is the mind project fallacy.
From wikipedia: occurs when one takes for sure that the way he sees the world reflects the way the world really is, going as far as assuming the real existence of imagined objects. Another form of the fallacy is when one assumes his own lack of knowledge about how the things really are as meaning that things are indeterminate.
Please note that I made no comment at all about PW2 (but you claim I did). I mentioned a fallacy that has been posted on the GW2 boards quite a number of times. Funny how that oneliner about a frequently used fallacy has some people coming out calling me troll and questioning my intentions.
Fans have so thin skin sometimes ...
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Does Lebron James have a championship? Case closed.
From the original post:
"I have noticed on these forums that many people use falacious reasoning to argue their point. What common fallacies have you experienced on these forums and in what context were they used?"
I mentioned a common fallacy on these forums and mentioned the context of it - just what the original poster wanted.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
You clearly don't get this thread or team sports....
Micheal Jordan one of the best players of all time couldn't win a championship until his team played at a championship level. No matter how many high scoring tripple doubles he put up they still lost to better teams.
Championships go to the best team not the best player.
It is a common fallacie that one player can carry a whole team though.
It was on topic
I was refering to people who think one player can carry a raid/pvp team ect.
your topic was a bit more about design I suppose, than actual game play.