Yes, because someone saying something negative about the game you're waiting for is a sure sign of a conspiracy to piss on your game. Good call.
nope but the ten million posts a day about the cash shop being pay 2 win when no one knows what's in it except the few press players who are prevented from speaking about it at all, does get tiresome the Nth time, especially when ALL facts about the game point to it not being P2W. see where i'm going here?
IMO, xp-boosts, stat boosts, run speed boosts, resurection scrolls and all types of power boosts in general are all P2W.
I dont care if marketing and PR people call things like that convinience, time savers or whatever. Different words same thing.
They are all advantages you can buy for real money. Call them whatever you want. There is no reason to argue over words. If they help you win in some way or not depends on what you are doing and on your playstyle. People that dont like advantage cash shops will not think its OK anyway.
We dont know exactly what will be in the CS when the game is released. They can remove things. Or they can add new things we dont know anything about. We will have to wait and see.
I personally don't mind all that stuff you said, because I also see how those items are helpful to the ppl that only get to play 2hrs a day, because of work of family and need to keep up with their friends that get to play 8hrs or more a day. As long as cs don't have item's like APB has then I'm fine with it.
And then came the incredibly hostile and toxic backlash from the hardcore fans when people tried to discuss this new development. And sure I agree there were many troll posters who came in screaming "Pay To Win" without having a f*cking clue what they were talking about, as there just isn't enough information so far to make such an accusation. However I feel there were just as many impulse control issue fanbois who felt the need to go on a paranoid rampage (as one poster here quite eloquently discribed as a hornet's nest) instead of trying to logically disarm the situation, among those who legitimately came here asking questions, and not just shouting "DOOOOM" at the top of their lungs.
I think you explained that oversized fanboy shield raise by yourself, but not the way you did : Let's be honest, GW2 has been trying very hard to say "f*ck you WoW clones", and put a lot of efforts into keeping it real in their development process. How many years has it been since one MMO has deliberately put its balls on the table like that ? How many years has it been since a game studio has taken so many risks against the classical MMO fanbase ?
And it is precisely what MMO core gamers were waiting for : someone to reject the "good old WoW model" and come with something new, and putting all his passion into it. Which is exactly what ANet advertised, developed and finally delivered.
So on the other side, you have all these mindless neverending trolls who keep bashing anything that is new. And on top of that, most of their rants were just caused by misinformation, which you could understand can raise the pissed off bar quite quickly for GW2 fans.
I've said it since the very first blatant GW2 troll posts in here : Classical MMO Trolls were taken by surprise with GW2. Before, they have been used to mindlessly bash every single new MMO, not even caring to check their facts, without any real response. But here, ANet did unveil a lot, lot of mechanics with full details to people who cared to search. They just gave their followers concrete weapons to fight mindless nay-sayers. Then nay-sayers took their negativity back in the face.
In a word, that troll unreal backlash is just a global saturation response. People are just fed up with bashers who don't take the time to back their claims. It had to happen one day.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
And then came the incredibly hostile and toxic backlash from the hardcore fans when people tried to discuss this new development. And sure I agree there were many troll posters who came in screaming "Pay To Win" without having a f*cking clue what they were talking about, as there just isn't enough information so far to make such an accusation. However I feel there were just as many impulse control issue fanbois who felt the need to go on a paranoid rampage (as one poster here quite eloquently discribed as a hornet's nest) instead of trying to logically disarm the situation, among those who legitimately came here asking questions, and not just shouting "DOOOOM" at the top of their lungs.
I think you explained that oversized fanboy shield raise by yourself, but not the way you did : Let's be honest, GW2 has been trying very hard to say "f*ck you WoW clones", and put a lot of efforts into keeping it real in their development process. How many years has it been since one MMO has deliberately put its balls on the table like that ? How many years has it been since a game studio has taken so many risks against the classical MMO fanbase ?
And it is precisely what MMO core gamers were waiting for : someone to reject the "good old WoW model" and come with something new, and putting all his passion into it. Which is exactly what ANet advertised, developed and finally delivered.
So on the other side, you have all these mindless neverending trolls who keep bashing anything that is new. And on top of that, most of their rants were just caused by misinformation, which you could understand can raise the pissed off bar quite quickly for GW2 fans.
I've said it since the very first blatant GW2 troll posts in here : Classical MMO Trolls were taken by surprise with GW2. Before, they have been used to mindlessly bash every single new MMO, not even caring to check their facts, without any real response. But here, ANet did unveil a lot, lot of mechanics with full details to people who cared to search. They just gave their followers concrete weapons to fight mindless nay-sayers. And nay-sayers took their negativity back in the face.
In a word, that troll unreal backlash is just a global saturation response. People are just fed up with bashers who don't take the time to back their claims. It had to happen one day.
As of yet, A-net hasn't DELIVERED anything. Until we see what the game is actually like at LAUNCH, I wouldn't make the mistake of claiming to know exactly what the game will or will not be. Just going by faith and eschewing any attempt to try to see beyond what you are told does not sound like a very wise choice. Especially so given the track record of MMO dissapointments.
I mean I hope GW2 will be everything A-net promises it to be, but remember the old addage, "Hope in one hand and sh*t in the other, and see which fills up first."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
As of yet, A-net hasn't DELIVERED anything. Until we see what the game is actually like at LAUNCH, I wouldn't make the mistake of claiming to know exactly what the game will or will not be. Just going by faith and eschewing any attempt to try to see beyond what you are told does not sound like a very wise choice. Especially so given the track record of MMO dissapointments.
I mean I hope GW2 will be everything A-net promises it to be, but remember the old addage, "Hope in one hand and sh*t in the other, and see which fills up first."
You're right, the final judgement will come at release. But as of yet, there has been a ton of real beta footage serving as a concrete proof that (roughly) everything ANet promised as a mechanic is now in game. There's no absolution yet, but we can say that hoping feels far more solid than with any other recently released MMOs.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Yes, because someone saying something negative about the game you're waiting for is a sure sign of a conspiracy to piss on your game. Good call.
nope but the ten million posts a day about the cash shop being pay 2 win when no one knows what's in it except the few press players who are prevented from speaking about it at all, does get tiresome the Nth time, especially when ALL facts about the game point to it not being P2W. see where i'm going here?
IMO, xp-boosts, stat boosts, run speed boosts, resurection scrolls and all types of power boosts in general are all P2W.
I dont care if marketing and PR people call things like that convinience, time savers or whatever. Different words same thing.
They are all advantages you can buy for real money. Call them whatever you want. There is no reason to argue over words. If they help you win in some way or not depends on what you are doing and on your playstyle. People that dont like advantage cash shops will not think its OK anyway.
We dont know exactly what will be in the CS when the game is released. They can remove things. Or they can add new things we dont know anything about. We will have to wait and see.
I personally don't mind all that stuff you said, because I also see how those items are helpful to the ppl that only get to play 2hrs a day, because of work of family and need to keep up with their friends that get to play 8hrs or more a day. As long as cs don't have item's like APB has then I'm fine with it.
There will be people with a house and a family they need to support that must pay a lot of bills. People that can only play 2 hours/day but cant afford to spend lots of money on virtual items in a CS.
There will be players that can play 8 hours/day and also have enough money to buy anything they want in the CS. That wants to be first/best/fastest or whatever they think is important. And to "compete" with them you will need both time and money.
As of yet, A-net hasn't DELIVERED anything. Until we see what the game is actually like at LAUNCH, I wouldn't make the mistake of claiming to know exactly what the game will or will not be. Just going by faith and eschewing any attempt to try to see beyond what you are told does not sound like a very wise choice. Especially so given the track record of MMO dissapointments.
I mean I hope GW2 will be everything A-net promises it to be, but remember the old addage, "Hope in one hand and sh*t in the other, and see which fills up first."
You're right, the final judgement will come at release. But as of yet, there has been a ton of real beta footage serving as a concrete proof that (roughly) everything ANet promised as a mechanic is now in game. There's no absolution yet, but we can say that hoping feels far more solid than with any other recently released MMOs.
You know I felt exactly the same way about SWTOR pre open beta. In the end I wound up with my big foot in my mouth. I'd again stress to not count your chickens before they hatch, as even the people currently in beta are only getting to see what A-net wants them to see. "Knowledge is power, guard it well."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Yes, because someone saying something negative about the game you're waiting for is a sure sign of a conspiracy to piss on your game. Good call.
nope but the ten million posts a day about the cash shop being pay 2 win when no one knows what's in it except the few press players who are prevented from speaking about it at all, does get tiresome the Nth time, especially when ALL facts about the game point to it not being P2W. see where i'm going here?
IMO, xp-boosts, stat boosts, run speed boosts, resurection scrolls and all types of power boosts in general are all P2W.
I dont care if marketing and PR people call things like that convinience, time savers or whatever. Different words same thing.
They are all advantages you can buy for real money. Call them whatever you want. There is no reason to argue over words. If they help you win in some way or not depends on what you are doing and on your playstyle. People that dont like advantage cash shops will not think its OK anyway.
We dont know exactly what will be in the CS when the game is released. They can remove things. Or they can add new things we dont know anything about. We will have to wait and see.
I personally don't mind all that stuff you said, because I also see how those items are helpful to the ppl that only get to play 2hrs a day, because of work of family and need to keep up with their friends that get to play 8hrs or more a day. As long as cs don't have item's like APB has then I'm fine with it.
There will be people with a house and a family they need to support that must pay a lot of bills. People that can only play 2 hours/day but cant afford to spend lots of money on virtual items in a CS.
There will be players that can play 8 hours/day and also have enough money to buy anything they want in the CS. That wants to be first/best/fastest or whatever they think is important. And to "compete" with them you will need both time and money.
Yeah but honestly who's it really hurt if those players that wanna stroke their own ego and buy a buncha exp pots and play 16hrs a day, so they can get to max level before anyone else and end up finding out that their ain't much to do up there by themselves. The ppl that the cs help's is bigger then who it's hurting in this case, because now those players that ain't got more then 2hrs a day can still buy the pots to keep up with friends.
A LOT of flaming on this site would disappear if they simply removed the "Current Forum Activity" feature on the main page.
This is the truest comment on here. The downside is they at mmorpg.com would get a lot less page hits and earn less money from Advertising.
I have heard people say some negative comments are from people like EA employees, but that argument is easy to turn on its head and say some positive comments are Anet employees, in the end none of us know and have to take each person as is.
At the end of the day whatever anyone says here good or bad has pretty much zero effect on any decently sized game, if GW2 is good it will be a success, if bad less so, so why not just use the block function and ignore those you don't want to listen to rather than tell people they should not post in "your" subforum.
Negativity from people on a game they have Not - Tried- or experienced, can generally be explained by several but not limited too,
-the ideals that their current game that they are playing is #1, and all the other "Slim Shade's" need to sit down,
but of course they are retarded to think such things, so people that are, for example. WoW supremisits, need to STFU and give other games a Shot to make their way in the MMO community,
Im sick of hearing negativity on games that havent been given time to develop.
-People just might like to troll new games because of course, all new games suck, and stay sucky, because WoW came out on launch day Perfect, and completely bug-less (<~ Sarcasm)
-And of course, we have the people that are emotional about New games, that they have experienced a "New MMO", and it failed to capture them completly on launch day, and it had bug's so they left the game, and cant ever trust a New MMO again.
That they get all emotional that "That type of game just wont work because i experienced blah blah blah"
And of course we have the "That company is blah blah blah"
-------------------
Getting a new MMO out their in the community now days is so hard because people have been numbled out and think MMO's are perfect from day one, but of course i dont mean literally, but people dont give the games enough time to develop a little, learn some, fix some, and so on,
and they judge the games so fast that its pointless to even try new games for them because they want Instant gratification.
Playing an MMO is a process, adventure, and experience.
Playing an MMO should not be like a Holiday INN, with little single serving soap bars, single serving shampoo, and ect.
Playing MMO's is to get More then just a simple PEW PEW, ok im done now what?
You develop WITH the MMO, not just sit on it like a fucking roller coaster.
In one way I can see their point. If the majority of a games fanbase is willing to just accpet anything the game company does as absoloutely perfect, and gives no relevent criticism, and goes so far as to try to run off or discredit thoise who do offer such criticism, there is good possiblitly the game could suck, as some glaring oversights could make it to game launch. I personally think this is one of the biggest reasons from some of SWTORs most glaring issues. Too much slavish adoration, and not enough rational critique.
Believe it or not, there are many people who give relevant criticism about the game. Sites like GW2Guru have had many people complain and criticize aspects of GW2. Features such as walking, eye color customization, Sylvari redesign, Norn voicework (still needs improvement imo), and many others were added in or redone in response to fan criticism. Many improvements based on fan criticism are still being worked on such as the toning down of particle effects.
Arenanet has shown that they do listen to fan concerns/criticisms on multiple occasions. People have criticized the game on static bosses and the game being too easy in difficulty. Yet just recently at PAX, Jon Peters subtly reminded people that Anet is listening to these concerns/criticism .
While there certainly are people that "accpet anything the game company does as absoloutely perfect", there certainly are many who do have criticisms of the game and are willing to let Anet know about them. So "their point" is based on ignorance and generalization of a fanbase based on selective attention of posts by some members of the fanbase.
Kind of my point in responding to this thread in the first place, as there are rational people on both sides of the coin, but we can't hear each other over the ape like bellowing and breast beating of those extremists on both sides that feel others have not even a right to a different point of view.
The OPs post, and indeed this enitre thread, seems to be a text book example of pointless sh*t flinging.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
As of yet, A-net hasn't DELIVERED anything. Until we see what the game is actually like at LAUNCH, I wouldn't make the mistake of claiming to know exactly what the game will or will not be. Just going by faith and eschewing any attempt to try to see beyond what you are told does not sound like a very wise choice. Especially so given the track record of MMO dissapointments.
I mean I hope GW2 will be everything A-net promises it to be, but remember the old addage, "Hope in one hand and sh*t in the other, and see which fills up first."
You're right, the final judgement will come at release. But as of yet, there has been a ton of real beta footage serving as a concrete proof that (roughly) everything ANet promised as a mechanic is now in game. There's no absolution yet, but we can say that hoping feels far more solid than with any other recently released MMOs.
You know I felt exactly the same way about SWTOR pre open beta. In the end I wound up with my big foot in my mouth. I'd again stress to not count your chickens before they hatch, as even the people currently in beta are only getting to see what A-net wants them to see. "Knowledge is power, guard it well."
Well, pragmatically, I can't say you're wrong ;-)
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Sill.. if we like what we see it's probably going to be good. I doubt ArenaNet is going to do a bait and switch. In fact it's a subscprition free game, so they really CAN'T be "bad" or it wont succeed. It has to be really good so that people play and get cash shop items and expansions down the road.
Plus the majority of the press like it a lot (generally speaking) which even SWTOR didn't have this much love from the press.
The OPs post, and indeed this enitre thread, seems to be a text book example of pointless sh*t flinging.
Hmm... but you're not proving the OP wrong, you're just flinging said pointless shit at him as well. He did have a point too... you can read their post histories and actually see a trend in the biggest shit slingers ...all having very high post counts yet only registered in the past few years...
It's certainly NOT the Mmorpg.com that I signed up for I'll you that much. 8 years ago it was a much different place. There wasn't this facelessness to it. And posters with single minded Agendas were few and far between. But lately they seem to be the majority in any subforums that get a lot of activity (I mean I could understand this in the Pub... but everywhere else?). Taking a legitimate concern in warning people is one thing, but most people doing that don't go out of their way to insult the people they're trying to warn .... These guys do, and so do you sometimes. I'll just quote this instead:
Originally posted by 4bsolute
Originally posted by DanitaKusor
So? Don't listen, try the game and make up your own mind.
There are individuals who are more attracted to crowds and social connectivity than going their own individual way. They simply cant help it.
...yeah... that applies to Forums too. ...And it includes Misanthropes as well since the best place to show people that you hate people in general; is right where the most people are gathered.
Please show me one truely negative response from someone with handson experience, i havent seen anyone. Back on gamescom everyone without any exception where very possitive, this my kind sire isnt based only on my experience, but on dozens of experiences from both gamescom handson experiences, as the many blogs posted from the press beta testing. While there was some criticism from the press, their overall opinion was allways very enthousiastic and positive.
I agree here, and I'll add that I've never seen the kind of enthusiastic, over-the-top gushing praise after press betas that I've seen with GW2. I'm sure that Anet is well aware that its GW2 design philosophy was going to generate a lot of negativity from some of the traditional player bases, but then, they weren't trying to market the game to them in the first place. This kind of negativity is to be expected when something different comes along that threatens to shake up the old order.
Personally, I think that the closer the game gets to release and the more of the game gets hands-on review by the press, the more the old school of raid and gear elitists realize that Anet isn't kidding with their no-end-game, give the best content to everyone philosophy. An elite few can't decide for everyone who gets what, and who can do what. Heck, you can't even "not invite" casuals and unskilled players to events, or even to squads in WvWvW.
That's the equivalent of a social revolution in the universe of MMOGs. It's going to upset more than a few people.
The OPs post, and indeed this enitre thread, seems to be a text book example of pointless sh*t flinging.
Yeah but you're not proving the OP wrong, you're just flinging said pointless shit at him as well. He did have a point too... you can actually see a trend in the biggest shit slingers. ...all having very high post counts yet only registered in the past few years...
It's certainly NOT the Mmorpg.com that I signed up for I'll you that much. 8 years ago it was a much different place. There wasn't this facelessness to it. And posters with single minded Agendas were few and far between. But lately they seem to be the majority in any subforums that gets a lot of activity. Taking a legitimate concern in warning people is one thing, but that doesn't seem at all like what's going on here.... I'll just quote this instead:
Actually I am as he is saying only the preceived "hater" populaton is guilty of bad behavior, where as I showed that his argument easily fit BOTH sides of extremists.
Blind extremism is blind extremism, reguardless of what side of the fence you stand on. To champion one faction and at the same time vilify the other for the exact same behavior is madness.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Actually I am as he is saying only the preceived "hater" populaton is guilty of bad behavior, where as I showed that his argument easily fit BOTH sides of extremists.
That you did. I just wanted it noted that you lose the Moral highground when you sling mud too...
Actually I am as he is saying only the preceived "hater" populaton is guilty of bad behavior, where as I showed that his argument easily fit BOTH sides of extremists.
That you did. I just wanted it noted that you lose the Moral highground when you sling mud too...
Which I have not done. Slinging mud implies the intent of insult simply for insult's sake. All I've done is to show by example why the OPs post, and subsequent vitriolic posts agreeing, or disagreeing with it, are nothing more than attempts to insult and wound, not enlighten or communicate.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
The devotion people have for their game of choice is staggering. Most posters who hate a game will always compare it to their favourite. "This game sux, it's just a copy of WoW" happens to be the most common argument against most games.
It's almost like there's only one true MMO in some gamers eye's and they're prepared to argue till they're blue in the face to prove themselves. More often than not they cling to unproven rumours or in some cases out right lies about the "target" game. Anyone who expresses interest in said game suddenly needs to be convinced that they shouldn't play it, and they don't pull their punches. (The last post I read before writing this mentioned morals, what do morals have to do with liking a game or not?)
Games aren't the only things that provoke this kind of response, favourite authors, movies, Star Trek V's Star Wars, potter V's hobbits, soap opera's, political parties and religions....to name a few.
It's a game, if you don't like it then why on earth are you even commenting on it. Sit back and watch the many "fanbois'" hearts break on release day if your so convinced it'll be a flop.
Why do you feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what you believe is the correct way to believe?
Why do you even visit the forums of a game you have no interest in? You may say "I'm interested but...", what your really saying is "I would be interest but...". You have no interest in viewing this game objectively and only wish to 'bash' it with whatever dirt you can find, true or not.
The CS isn't fully revealed yet and people seem convinced it's a P2W game. Please give me next weeks lotto numbers if you truly believe ANet has made a P2W game based on someone’s precognitive prediction, you obviously have a portal into the future. (That's EURO Millions /PM me).
The combat (omg this game looks so frekking easy/boring) difficulty people seem to quote is completely baffling. My only guess is that they watched some of the early alpha video's posted by ANet to showcase the game play mechanics. (They dumbed down the AI so they could kill things easily). All Beta video's I've seen so far have looked amazingly fun and in some instances hard. The only content shown so far has been pvp, levels 1-20 (80 cap) and 1 dungeon, hardly enough content to base a realistic bases on the combat effectiveness or difficulty.
No Raids/endgame QQers are pretty damn obvious about where they come from. Raids in GW2 range from 1 man up to whatever you can fit in a zone. The whole game scales in difficulty dependant on the number of combatants. If the Shatterer lands on your head and you put the call out then you have a guild + everyone else on the scene running a raid. WvWvW is a raid, just like TB/WG was a raid. Instead of having win conditions you have a 2 week battle, at the end whoever has the most points win, WvW has both PVP and PVE elements. Dungeons/Heroics - yep they have those. All dungeons have explorable modes (also called bloody hard modes). The point is, the whole game is end game because you set your own endgame requirements. You like raiding, there's plenty of options. You like exploring, the game is HUGE. You like dungeons...yadda yadda yadda.
Will the game Flop? I'm not an industry professional with a decades worth of experience with this genre, I don't have any access to the beta and have no hands on experience. For me to say anything other than “I Don't Know” would be incredibly presumptuous and pure speculation. However, my opinion is that it will soar.
TL;DR; - Read it, it's an opinion and deserves the same weight as yours.
Why do you feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what you believe is the correct way to believe?
Why the consipiracy that anyone with a differing opinion is trying to mind control others?
Why the conspiarcy that anyone with a critical outlook on the game both hates and has ZERO interest in it?
TL;DR; - Read it, it's an opinion and deserves the same weight as yours.
Completely agree. Funny thing though, if you read the OPs post you'll find it its little more than a rant saying that any person with a differing opinion from the OPs, does NOT deserve the same weight as his. And that only people who hold a CRITICAL outlook on this game, hold opinions which are uneducated and spurious.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Why the consipiracy that anyone with a differing opinion is trying to mind control others?
Why the conspiarcy that anyone with a critical outlook on the game both hates and has ZERO interest in it?
Sorry, I generalised instead of focusing on the original post. The point is valid though:
Why do people feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what they believe is the correct way to believe?
Hardly a conspiracy, just an observation from ingame chat channels and forums over the years. Saw it in the EQ2 and SWG channels about WoW when it was released and subsequently in the WoW forums/channels about each and every release since. even in new releases it doesn't take much for the conversations to move onto bashing of an old or future game. Some gamers are fanatical about their favoirite game, too the point of hating any other for reasons that are not based on anything other than an opinion (Often not their own and based on incomplete/inaccurate information).
In regards to the OP, my post was more of a opinion of why they hate. I don't think his post deserves the classification of a rant, more of a comment on the current trend of prejudged opinions becoming viral on the forums.
His last line QFT: - "please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs."
Why the consipiracy that anyone with a differing opinion is trying to mind control others?
Why the conspiarcy that anyone with a critical outlook on the game both hates and has ZERO interest in it?
Sorry, I generalised instead of focusing on the original post. The point is valid though:
Why do people feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what they believe is the correct way to believe?
Hardly a conspiracy, just an observation from ingame chat channels and forums over the years. Saw it in the EQ2 and SWG channels about WoW when it was released and subsequently in the WoW forums/channels about each and every release since. even in new releases it doesn't take much for the conversations to move onto bashing of an old or future game. Some gamers are fanatical about their favoirite game, too the point of hating any other for reasons that are not based on anything other than an opinion (Often not their own and based on incomplete/inaccurate information).
True, its human nature, happens with any idea, from movies, to game to politics. The problem is when you do like the OP and lump educated, and undeducated citicism into one group, you are just immediately gainsaying all opinions other than your own.
In regards to the OP, my post was more of a opinion of why they hate. I don't think his post deserves the classification of a rant, more of a comment on the current trend of prejudged opinions becoming viral on the forums.
His last line QFT: - "please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs."
I do feel it deserves to be designated as a rant. While I agree his last sentence is incredibly logical, and excellent advice, the rest of his post was entirely unnecessary, and actually helped to make sure this good advice was immediatly ignored.
For example, "I ask you good people to review the facts at hand, and make your own judgement." Is good advice.
"I ask you good people to review the facts at hand , and make your own judgement, and not listen to these other assholes." is not. And that is exactly what he did.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
So what your saying is people should ONLY post good things about GW2? and not to express there opions on a public forum
So how much are they paying you to get there advocate?
Why do people feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what they believe is the correct way to believe?
Much of what may appear to be this is debate, brainstorming and opinion. It doesn't mean everyone involved in any sort of discussion who's views may vary from someone else's is out to convince the world of their belief. I am beginning to think some people (note: not EVERYONE) are lacking in the skills needed to debate or converse on a level that doesn't include outright insults and accusations of foul play. And that could be true about people on both sides of an arguement.
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I personally don't mind all that stuff you said, because I also see how those items are helpful to the ppl that only get to play 2hrs a day, because of work of family and need to keep up with their friends that get to play 8hrs or more a day. As long as cs don't have item's like APB has then I'm fine with it.
I think you explained that oversized fanboy shield raise by yourself, but not the way you did : Let's be honest, GW2 has been trying very hard to say "f*ck you WoW clones", and put a lot of efforts into keeping it real in their development process. How many years has it been since one MMO has deliberately put its balls on the table like that ? How many years has it been since a game studio has taken so many risks against the classical MMO fanbase ?
And it is precisely what MMO core gamers were waiting for : someone to reject the "good old WoW model" and come with something new, and putting all his passion into it. Which is exactly what ANet advertised, developed and finally delivered.
So on the other side, you have all these mindless neverending trolls who keep bashing anything that is new. And on top of that, most of their rants were just caused by misinformation, which you could understand can raise the pissed off bar quite quickly for GW2 fans.
I've said it since the very first blatant GW2 troll posts in here : Classical MMO Trolls were taken by surprise with GW2. Before, they have been used to mindlessly bash every single new MMO, not even caring to check their facts, without any real response. But here, ANet did unveil a lot, lot of mechanics with full details to people who cared to search. They just gave their followers concrete weapons to fight mindless nay-sayers. Then nay-sayers took their negativity back in the face.
In a word, that troll unreal backlash is just a global saturation response. People are just fed up with bashers who don't take the time to back their claims. It had to happen one day.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
As of yet, A-net hasn't DELIVERED anything. Until we see what the game is actually like at LAUNCH, I wouldn't make the mistake of claiming to know exactly what the game will or will not be. Just going by faith and eschewing any attempt to try to see beyond what you are told does not sound like a very wise choice. Especially so given the track record of MMO dissapointments.
I mean I hope GW2 will be everything A-net promises it to be, but remember the old addage, "Hope in one hand and sh*t in the other, and see which fills up first."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
You're right, the final judgement will come at release. But as of yet, there has been a ton of real beta footage serving as a concrete proof that (roughly) everything ANet promised as a mechanic is now in game. There's no absolution yet, but we can say that hoping feels far more solid than with any other recently released MMOs.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
There will be people with a house and a family they need to support that must pay a lot of bills. People that can only play 2 hours/day but cant afford to spend lots of money on virtual items in a CS.
There will be players that can play 8 hours/day and also have enough money to buy anything they want in the CS. That wants to be first/best/fastest or whatever they think is important. And to "compete" with them you will need both time and money.
You know I felt exactly the same way about SWTOR pre open beta. In the end I wound up with my big foot in my mouth. I'd again stress to not count your chickens before they hatch, as even the people currently in beta are only getting to see what A-net wants them to see. "Knowledge is power, guard it well."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Yeah but honestly who's it really hurt if those players that wanna stroke their own ego and buy a buncha exp pots and play 16hrs a day, so they can get to max level before anyone else and end up finding out that their ain't much to do up there by themselves. The ppl that the cs help's is bigger then who it's hurting in this case, because now those players that ain't got more then 2hrs a day can still buy the pots to keep up with friends.
This is the truest comment on here. The downside is they at mmorpg.com would get a lot less page hits and earn less money from Advertising.
I have heard people say some negative comments are from people like EA employees, but that argument is easy to turn on its head and say some positive comments are Anet employees, in the end none of us know and have to take each person as is.
At the end of the day whatever anyone says here good or bad has pretty much zero effect on any decently sized game, if GW2 is good it will be a success, if bad less so, so why not just use the block function and ignore those you don't want to listen to rather than tell people they should not post in "your" subforum.Negativity from people on a game they have Not - Tried- or experienced, can generally be explained by several but not limited too,
-the ideals that their current game that they are playing is #1, and all the other "Slim Shade's" need to sit down,
but of course they are retarded to think such things, so people that are, for example. WoW supremisits, need to STFU and give other games a Shot to make their way in the MMO community,
Im sick of hearing negativity on games that havent been given time to develop.
-People just might like to troll new games because of course, all new games suck, and stay sucky, because WoW came out on launch day Perfect, and completely bug-less (<~ Sarcasm)
-And of course, we have the people that are emotional about New games, that they have experienced a "New MMO", and it failed to capture them completly on launch day, and it had bug's so they left the game, and cant ever trust a New MMO again.
That they get all emotional that "That type of game just wont work because i experienced blah blah blah"
And of course we have the "That company is blah blah blah"
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Getting a new MMO out their in the community now days is so hard because people have been numbled out and think MMO's are perfect from day one, but of course i dont mean literally, but people dont give the games enough time to develop a little, learn some, fix some, and so on,
and they judge the games so fast that its pointless to even try new games for them because they want Instant gratification.
Playing an MMO is a process, adventure, and experience.
Playing an MMO should not be like a Holiday INN, with little single serving soap bars, single serving shampoo, and ect.
Playing MMO's is to get More then just a simple PEW PEW, ok im done now what?
You develop WITH the MMO, not just sit on it like a fucking roller coaster.
Kind of my point in responding to this thread in the first place, as there are rational people on both sides of the coin, but we can't hear each other over the ape like bellowing and breast beating of those extremists on both sides that feel others have not even a right to a different point of view.
The OPs post, and indeed this enitre thread, seems to be a text book example of pointless sh*t flinging.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Well, pragmatically, I can't say you're wrong ;-)
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Sill.. if we like what we see it's probably going to be good. I doubt ArenaNet is going to do a bait and switch. In fact it's a subscprition free game, so they really CAN'T be "bad" or it wont succeed. It has to be really good so that people play and get cash shop items and expansions down the road.
Plus the majority of the press like it a lot (generally speaking) which even SWTOR didn't have this much love from the press.
Hmm... but you're not proving the OP wrong, you're just flinging said pointless shit at him as well. He did have a point too... you can read their post histories and actually see a trend in the biggest shit slingers ...all having very high post counts yet only registered in the past few years...
It's certainly NOT the Mmorpg.com that I signed up for I'll you that much. 8 years ago it was a much different place. There wasn't this facelessness to it. And posters with single minded Agendas were few and far between. But lately they seem to be the majority in any subforums that get a lot of activity (I mean I could understand this in the Pub... but everywhere else?). Taking a legitimate concern in warning people is one thing, but most people doing that don't go out of their way to insult the people they're trying to warn .... These guys do, and so do you sometimes. I'll just quote this instead:
...yeah... that applies to Forums too. ...And it includes Misanthropes as well since the best place to show people that you hate people in general; is right where the most people are gathered.
I agree here, and I'll add that I've never seen the kind of enthusiastic, over-the-top gushing praise after press betas that I've seen with GW2. I'm sure that Anet is well aware that its GW2 design philosophy was going to generate a lot of negativity from some of the traditional player bases, but then, they weren't trying to market the game to them in the first place. This kind of negativity is to be expected when something different comes along that threatens to shake up the old order.
Personally, I think that the closer the game gets to release and the more of the game gets hands-on review by the press, the more the old school of raid and gear elitists realize that Anet isn't kidding with their no-end-game, give the best content to everyone philosophy. An elite few can't decide for everyone who gets what, and who can do what. Heck, you can't even "not invite" casuals and unskilled players to events, or even to squads in WvWvW.
That's the equivalent of a social revolution in the universe of MMOGs. It's going to upset more than a few people.
I think I'm going to create a guild wars 2 character who's name is: Paper Towel.
Actually I am as he is saying only the preceived "hater" populaton is guilty of bad behavior, where as I showed that his argument easily fit BOTH sides of extremists.
Blind extremism is blind extremism, reguardless of what side of the fence you stand on. To champion one faction and at the same time vilify the other for the exact same behavior is madness.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
That you did. I just wanted it noted that you lose the Moral highground when you sling mud too...
Which I have not done. Slinging mud implies the intent of insult simply for insult's sake. All I've done is to show by example why the OPs post, and subsequent vitriolic posts agreeing, or disagreeing with it, are nothing more than attempts to insult and wound, not enlighten or communicate.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
The devotion people have for their game of choice is staggering. Most posters who hate a game will always compare it to their favourite. "This game sux, it's just a copy of WoW" happens to be the most common argument against most games.
It's almost like there's only one true MMO in some gamers eye's and they're prepared to argue till they're blue in the face to prove themselves. More often than not they cling to unproven rumours or in some cases out right lies about the "target" game. Anyone who expresses interest in said game suddenly needs to be convinced that they shouldn't play it, and they don't pull their punches. (The last post I read before writing this mentioned morals, what do morals have to do with liking a game or not?)
Games aren't the only things that provoke this kind of response, favourite authors, movies, Star Trek V's Star Wars, potter V's hobbits, soap opera's, political parties and religions....to name a few.
It's a game, if you don't like it then why on earth are you even commenting on it. Sit back and watch the many "fanbois'" hearts break on release day if your so convinced it'll be a flop.
Why do you feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what you believe is the correct way to believe?
Why do you even visit the forums of a game you have no interest in? You may say "I'm interested but...", what your really saying is "I would be interest but...". You have no interest in viewing this game objectively and only wish to 'bash' it with whatever dirt you can find, true or not.
The CS isn't fully revealed yet and people seem convinced it's a P2W game. Please give me next weeks lotto numbers if you truly believe ANet has made a P2W game based on someone’s precognitive prediction, you obviously have a portal into the future. (That's EURO Millions /PM me).
The combat (omg this game looks so frekking easy/boring) difficulty people seem to quote is completely baffling. My only guess is that they watched some of the early alpha video's posted by ANet to showcase the game play mechanics. (They dumbed down the AI so they could kill things easily). All Beta video's I've seen so far have looked amazingly fun and in some instances hard. The only content shown so far has been pvp, levels 1-20 (80 cap) and 1 dungeon, hardly enough content to base a realistic bases on the combat effectiveness or difficulty.
No Raids/endgame QQers are pretty damn obvious about where they come from. Raids in GW2 range from 1 man up to whatever you can fit in a zone. The whole game scales in difficulty dependant on the number of combatants. If the Shatterer lands on your head and you put the call out then you have a guild + everyone else on the scene running a raid. WvWvW is a raid, just like TB/WG was a raid. Instead of having win conditions you have a 2 week battle, at the end whoever has the most points win, WvW has both PVP and PVE elements. Dungeons/Heroics - yep they have those. All dungeons have explorable modes (also called bloody hard modes). The point is, the whole game is end game because you set your own endgame requirements. You like raiding, there's plenty of options. You like exploring, the game is HUGE. You like dungeons...yadda yadda yadda.
Will the game Flop? I'm not an industry professional with a decades worth of experience with this genre, I don't have any access to the beta and have no hands on experience. For me to say anything other than “I Don't Know” would be incredibly presumptuous and pure speculation. However, my opinion is that it will soar.
TL;DR; - Read it, it's an opinion and deserves the same weight as yours.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Why the consipiracy that anyone with a differing opinion is trying to mind control others?
Why the conspiarcy that anyone with a critical outlook on the game both hates and has ZERO interest in it?
Sorry, I generalised instead of focusing on the original post. The point is valid though:
Why do people feel obligated to convince everyone else in the world that what they believe is the correct way to believe?
Hardly a conspiracy, just an observation from ingame chat channels and forums over the years. Saw it in the EQ2 and SWG channels about WoW when it was released and subsequently in the WoW forums/channels about each and every release since. even in new releases it doesn't take much for the conversations to move onto bashing of an old or future game. Some gamers are fanatical about their favoirite game, too the point of hating any other for reasons that are not based on anything other than an opinion (Often not their own and based on incomplete/inaccurate information).
In regards to the OP, my post was more of a opinion of why they hate. I don't think his post deserves the classification of a rant, more of a comment on the current trend of prejudged opinions becoming viral on the forums.
His last line QFT: - "please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs."
I do feel it deserves to be designated as a rant. While I agree his last sentence is incredibly logical, and excellent advice, the rest of his post was entirely unnecessary, and actually helped to make sure this good advice was immediatly ignored.
For example, "I ask you good people to review the facts at hand, and make your own judgement." Is good advice.
"I ask you good people to review the facts at hand , and make your own judgement, and not listen to these other assholes." is not. And that is exactly what he did.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
So what your saying is people should ONLY post good things about GW2? and not to express there opions on a public forum
So how much are they paying you to get there advocate?
Much of what may appear to be this is debate, brainstorming and opinion. It doesn't mean everyone involved in any sort of discussion who's views may vary from someone else's is out to convince the world of their belief. I am beginning to think some people (note: not EVERYONE) are lacking in the skills needed to debate or converse on a level that doesn't include outright insults and accusations of foul play. And that could be true about people on both sides of an arguement.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P