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A confession; I've been playing TOR.

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  • SandboxSandbox Member UncommonPosts: 295

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Sandbox  

    Pre-cu had modeless chat as default, not WASD-controls for movment. Hitting W would make you start typing W in the chat.

    That's why all shortcuts for menu commands were in combination with Ctrl, i.e. Ctrl+I for Inventory. Exception was in space, where you could control your ship with WASD (or the mouse), and you had to hit Enter to activate the chat. Two different UIs.

     

    The arrow keys perform the WASD function in Pre-cu

    Well... you had keyboard controlled movement with the cursor keys.

    WASD is by definition the "standard" cursor key functionality mapped to a more convenient location at the keyboard.

    Saying "arrow keys perform the WASD function" is kinda awkward.

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by RefMinor


    Originally posted by Sandbox  
    Pre-cu had modeless chat as default, not WASD-controls for movment. Hitting W would make you start typing W in the chat.
    That's why all shortcuts for menu commands were in combination with Ctrl, i.e. Ctrl+I for Inventory. Exception was in space, where you could control your ship with WASD (or the mouse), and you had to hit Enter to activate the chat. Two different UIs.

     

    The arrow keys perform the WASD function in Pre-cu

    Well... you had keyboard controlled movement with the cursor keys.

    WASD is by definition the "standard" cursor key functionality mapped to a more convenient location at the keyboard.

    Saying "arrow keys perform the WASD function" is kinda awkward.

     

    Not really it is fairly precise statement that did not not even allude to personal preferences, you can always remap it if you want.
  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    .
  • BrokenSpoonBrokenSpoon Member Posts: 205

    I used my face to use the control keys - and my elbow to move the mouse! I got to 50 quite quick in swtor with this method! 

    All hail the Barn Owl! oh.. and the RED SQUIRREL!!!

  • SandboxSandbox Member UncommonPosts: 295

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Sandbox  

    Pre-cu had modeless chat as default, not WASD-controls for movment. Hitting W would make you start typing W in the chat.

    That's why all shortcuts for menu commands were in combination with Ctrl, i.e. Ctrl+I for Inventory. Exception was in space, where you could control your ship with WASD (or the mouse), and you had to hit Enter to activate the chat. Two different UIs.

     

    The arrow keys perform the WASD function in Pre-cu

    Well... you had keyboard controlled movement with the cursor keys.

    WASD is by definition the "standard" cursor key functionality mapped to a more convenient location at the keyboard.

    Saying "arrow keys perform the WASD function" is kinda awkward.

     

    Not really it is fairly precise statement that did not not even allude to personal preferences, you can always remap it if you want.

    The cursor keys has been used as movements controls since the dawn of PC-based computer games, long before you could do fancy things like re-mapping keys etc.


    The WASD-function is to emulate the cursor keys. Not the opposite.


    So saying "arrow keys perform the WASD function" is like stating the obvious.


    There was no WASD as default in SWG Pre-cu, except for space, as mentioned before. 


     


    Edit: Spelling

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Member Posts: 2,096

    Originally posted by StoneRoses

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Too bad SWG is no longer around, it would be so fun to see SWG having more subs. than SW:TOR, one year down the road. Because lets face it, this game IS a single player game and once you finished it, you aren't going to replay it. Unless it is really, really good, which SW:TOR is sadly not.

     

    [Mod Edit]

     

     

     

    Agree

     

    The TOR forums are more like SWG vet forum east. Instead of complaining in the designated forum, we get to "enjoy" their rants instead.

     

    SWG was a smoldering POS, and although some loved it, BW had no intentions on making them a sequel. Rather than accept it, and simply move on, we have posters that would make Dr Phil scratch his head. I am not a Dr myself, so I have no clue if something like this is post tramatic stress disorder, or perhaps simply needing to grow up. Regardless, it is a case of "get over it already". sheesh

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Too bad SWG is no longer around, it would be so fun to see SWG having more subs. than SW:TOR, one year down the road. Because lets face it, this game IS a single player game and once you finished it, you aren't going to replay it. Unless it is really, really good, which SW:TOR is sadly not.

     

    [Mod Edit]

     

     

     

    Agree

     

    The TOR forums are more like SWG vet forum east. Instead of complaining in the designated forum, we get to "enjoy" their rants instead.

     

    SWG was a smoldering POS, and although some loved it, BW had no intentions on making them a sequel. Rather than accept it, and simply move on, we have posters that would make Dr Phil scratch his head. I am not a Dr myself, so I have no clue if something like this is post tramatic stress disorder, or perhaps simply needing to grow up. Regardless, it is a case of "get over it already". sheesh

     

    No

  • noncleynoncley Member UncommonPosts: 718

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Too bad SWG is no longer around, it would be so fun to see SWG having more subs. than SW:TOR, one year down the road. Because lets face it, this game IS a single player game and once you finished it, you aren't going to replay it. Unless it is really, really good, which SW:TOR is sadly not.

     [Mod Edit]

     

     

     

    Agree

     

    The TOR forums are more like SWG vet forum east. Instead of complaining in the designated forum, we get to "enjoy" their rants instead.

     

    SWG was a smoldering POS, and although some loved it, BW had no intentions on making them a sequel. Rather than accept it, and simply move on, we have posters that would make Dr Phil scratch his head. I am not a Dr myself, so I have no clue if something like this is post tramatic stress disorder, or perhaps simply needing to grow up. Regardless, it is a case of "get over it already". sheesh

    If they had done, perhaps SWTOR would have been a much, much better game than the linear, restrictive, shallow and dull experience we did get. Don't feel bad.

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Too bad SWG is no longer around, it would be so fun to see SWG having more subs. than SW:TOR, one year down the road. Because lets face it, this game IS a single player game and once you finished it, you aren't going to replay it. Unless it is really, really good, which SW:TOR is sadly not.

     

    [Mod Edit]

     

     

     

    Agree

     

    The TOR forums are more like SWG vet forum east. Instead of complaining in the designated forum, we get to "enjoy" their rants instead.

     

    SWG was a smoldering POS, and although some loved it, BW had no intentions on making them a sequel. Rather than accept it, and simply move on, we have posters that would make Dr Phil scratch his head. I am not a Dr myself, so I have no clue if something like this is post tramatic stress disorder, or perhaps simply needing to grow up. Regardless, it is a case of "get over it already". sheesh

     

    Actually this thread was originally posted in the SWG forum, but was moved this morning to the TOR one. I did ask them to move it back already, but I guess that won't make much difference to your rant.

  • musicmannmusicmann Member UncommonPosts: 1,095

    The one thing that SWG did better than any other game i've ever played is, have systems that allowed for social interaction between community members that would come by the different professions that it had. Talking to a enteretainer in a cantina to waiting in line for a shuttle made it feel less cold and allowed to make in game friends much easier. The dedicated crafters also brought people togeither by setting up a trade agreement with a player that had a combat character, that would go out and get different resources that was needed. All around it set the tone right from the beginning to bring people together.

     

    TOR on the other hand took the direct opposite path. There's not one system in place to actively promote social interaction on a level that goes beyond LFG. You can be grouped up with three others and never talk, never find out anything about the other players and after whatever was needed by joining that group turning and going seperate ways to never seeing or playing with them again. So, if you didn't have any RL friends playing the only way to really interact in TOR is to join a guild, which in these days unlike back in SWG, are more about setting up this strict calender of events that consists of raiding over and over and running the same PVP warzones over and over.

     

    Back in SWG pre-cu days, guilds were about setting up their city, growing it to the point of having a banking terminal, a speeder repair terminal, and a hospital. Guildmates worked together with the crafters to go out and obtain the resources they needed. There were Krayt dragon hunts and open pvp anywhere and everywhere. You could always go out on your own and just do stuff that always didn't include combat.

     

    This is whats misssing from TOR so bad. The heading out in no particular direction and out in the middle of nowhere come upon a scout that had set up a camp. Just to sit back and get to know that person and talk about the game, his guild or whatever was priceless. I feel sorry for some folks that never got to play SWG in that time and amazed by some that did and still thinks that TOR is/was better than that.  Now, TOR for what it really is, a SPG with online options, is ok. A playthrough from 1 to 50 i would say is the best leveling i ever done in a more than pure themepark game. The problem i have with it now, is that in my opinion, Bioware held everything about this title so close to the vest, right up to launch day, i really didn't know what to expect, and i think i'm not alone in that. They said boldly early on that TOR was gonna land somewhere right in the middle between themepark and sandbox and that is just not the case at all. To come from SWG pre-cu all the way to stop playing when the NGE hit, to wait for another SW mmorpg and then get TOR in the way it is. Talk about major let down.

     

     

  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Too bad SWG is no longer around, it would be so fun to see SWG having more subs. than SW:TOR, one year down the road. Because lets face it, this game IS a single player game and once you finished it, you aren't going to replay it. Unless it is really, really good, which SW:TOR is sadly not.

     

    [Mod Edit]

     

     

     

    Agree

     

    The TOR forums are more like SWG vet forum east. Instead of complaining in the designated forum, we get to "enjoy" their rants instead.

     

    SWG was a smoldering POS, and although some loved it, BW had no intentions on making them a sequel. Rather than accept it, and simply move on, we have posters that would make Dr Phil scratch his head. I am not a Dr myself, so I have no clue if something like this is post tramatic stress disorder, or perhaps simply needing to grow up. Regardless, it is a case of "get over it already". sheesh



    It is quite hard to accept SWG being shut down, when it was making money still when they decided to shut it down, and the populations were on the rise too. That could have been due to the free 45 days, but they decided to shut down the game before people had the chance to resub, where it would have shown SOE and LA that the game was dying, if they waited only a few more weeks. 6 months notice for shutdown is a long time. Other MMOs that have shut down have only given 1-3 months notice. There was definately something special about SWG. SWTOR shows that people are not willing to play a game they do not like even if no longer costing them money. People seem to be subbed to SWTOR, by buying 3 / 6 / 12months subs etc, but still not playing it, even to try and make those sub purchases worth it. So my guess for the population rise was because 45 free days + free transfers made people happy as were able to play on populated servers, and SOE fixed the problem which made them quit in the first place.

    There is nothing wrong with SWTOR if you are willing to buy a game and then just play for a month or two, but the game is not going to go far when people are not willing to play long term, but that is why SWTOR is a fail, it is meant to be monthly sub based game where people are willing to play it long term, but many are not. 1.7 million subscribers does not equal 1.7 million active players who log in and play.

    IF SWG did not shut down until it was truly low populated, then I may have seen more out of SWTOR than its shallowness, and still played SWG alongside SWTOR, but I am not willing to spend money and time doing repetetive tasks when LA are fickle and SWTOR will shut down eventually too, and probably sooner with EA at the helm, and the obvious mass exodus. SOE always hangs on to MMOs as long as possible, but SWG was cut short because LA forced the situation, and then made out with the old Dec 15th and in with the new Dec 20th- Totally dirsrespecting their fanbase.

    SWTOR is just worthy to buy, play through within the month or two and enjoy the story, and then quit. Then probably play again a month each year, to lap up the content added within the year, or just wait for it go F2P.

    SWTOR > SWG if only willing to play a MMO for a month or two, but SWG > SWTOR if willing to play for years and years.

    Red Dead Redemption is the best single player online game, which includes creature harvesting, and SWTOR even does not come close to RDR. SWTOR definately needs to be F2P, it it is not worth a monthly fee. I would pay a monthly fee to RDR though.

    I have tried loads of MMOs since Dec 15th, but nothing I find worthy of my time and money other than SWG, and talking about SWG > playing other MMOs.

    I have moved on from playing SWG to talking about SWG, and thanks for your post of mentioing SWG, I had pleasure here talking about SWG again :)

  • BardusBardus Member Posts: 460

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Many will probably remember me saying I wasn't going to play TOR, however I have family members and friends internationally who like to aid my crazy addictions and picked it up for me late last year.  I'm sure there are many here that are hoping to read this and see that I've "seen the light" and come to realise that SWG was crap, etc etc.  If you're one of those people then you're probably not going to like this post.

    I always knew TOR was never going to be anything like SWG but I figured that this is what MMO's are these days and being a fan of the MMO genre I might as well at least play one that is somewhat sci-fi.  So for the last three months I've trying to become attached to TOR like I was with SWG.

    That attempt has failed.  As much as I've tried, TOR is too linear and simplistic for me.  I don't feel like I'm playing an MMO, I feel like I'm playing a single player game for the most part - there's little in the way of a community and there's nothing there to really entice a community atmosphere.

    My main complaints:


    • The lack of a community feel.  For the most part, I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  For the grind from 1-50 I pretty much feel like I'm all on my own and there's little reason to involve anyone else.  I know this is something SWG tried to do as well with the legacy quests but there were alternatives.  Being in a guild seems to be for title only as you don't seem to really need to rely on your guild for much. 

    • Meaningless PvP, which kind of links with the above point.  I don't see much in the way of PvP outside of the instanced areas.  I'm on a PvP server but the only places I encounter PvP is when I queue for a Warzone or if I were to go to Ilum.  I miss the PvP based on pride in SWG which actually gave it a war like feel - I felt like I had an enemy to fight.  There's no "X guild is SF in Y city and they're holding the SP...let's gather up and kill them!"  I really want something like that again.  Fighting purely for trinkets gets boring.

    • The UI. Holy crap, the UI.  I can't move any of the UI windows to where I want them, I can't resize them and I can't have more than two open at once.  On top of that, the behaviour of one UI window changes if you happen to have another specific UI window open.  It's also too in your face and chunky.

    • Movement controls.  This is potentially just because I'm overly familliar with the way SWG did things, but I really do miss the ability to lock the cursor and simply use the mouse to control the direction my character moves.  Instead, to do this with the mouse I have to hold down two mouse buttons, or through using the keyboard I have to use one key to move and another to control direction.  There's also no means of remapping which two mouse buttons control movement.

    • A lacking of non-combat activities.  The crafting in TOR is simply, boring.  There's nothing to it and there's really no reason for me to do it.  If people needed/wanted my crafted goods then that would make the boredom worth it but nope, everything comes from loot. 

    There's all the little things that SWG just had that you get used to and miss, like housing, the travel system and towards the end, the GCW systems.  I suppose three months on I'll admit, I'm missing SWG.  Not obessively so, but I just look at the MMO's out there today and can't really find anything that would keep me interested.  Everything is trying to be like WoW.  Maybe SWG was just "the perfect storm" and in general, MMO's just aren't my thing.


     


    If anyone needs me, I'll be in Team Fortress 2...


     


     

    With you on everything and especially in the red. Who the #&@* ever thought holding mouse buttons down is a good idea? I tried the trial for TOR and that damn system made me do nothing but point and click combat. I know other games are using those controls as well and I hate them too LOL. Makes no sense at all to me.

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  • BardusBardus Member Posts: 460

    Originally posted by Troneas

    Originally posted by Obraik


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by Obraik


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

    I put that a little harsh, sorry.

    My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.



    NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

    I'll agree that they simplified the professions but I wouldn't say they took away the Star Wars world simulation.  That part of the game wasn't changed with the NGE, nor was it loot based for gear.  Equipable loot items were far, far inferior to crafted items and buff loot items didn't conflict with crafted buff items.  You would not have been able to play without crafted items.

    bollocks and you know it.

     

    they put a linear quest to level up in detriment of doing your own thing. 

     I actually didn't mind legacy quest. A themepark for leveling is better than just mob grinding by far for me.

    that linear quest supplied the player with everything he could possibly need via loot drops or quest rewards.

     This right here makes me think you never played the game. You have to be joking!?!? The rewards and loot were absolute garbage. To even level up in what gear you looted or won meant you worked your ass off and a total noob for even trying it with that junk.  Very little of it could even be reverse engineered.

    they put flashy quest icons atop NPCs with friggin floor indicators to show him where he had to run next.

     I fail to see an issue here.

    the friggin heroics were raid dungeons which dropped the most desired loot and encouraged the player to repeat those countless times to get the best gear. POIs became ghost spots and drops from the wilderness were rendered useless.  When was the last time you went on a hunting expedition or visited a POI to grind or loot?

     Heroics should be where you get the best stuff duh and they still had to be reverse engineered to be of any use. Drops from the wilderness were used for many things, many many things. More then I'll attempt listing. Everyone that played the game much at all knows this.

    interdependancy between players was completely scrapped. not much of a simulation when you can get by yourself just fine. 

     What? Huh? SWG was nothing but about interdependancy. How could anyone play it without entertainers, crafters, healers and so on and on.

    ITVs made whatever simulation the game first intended a joke. Push a button and spawn anyhere anytime? LOL. So much for simulation...

    Your just grasping for straws here.

     

    the risk factor was completely taken out of the game with the nerf of NPCs, removal of death penalties, and increase in vehicle and avatar speed. 

    What nerf is this you speek of? Death penalties, OK that was dumbed down. Vehicle speed? Why is that an issue again?

     

    sandstorms and rain ceased to affect accuracy...

     I'll actually let you win this one.

    ....

     

    man the list goes on and on but i am not going to bother because you are either trolling or you've just proven (yet again) why you were part of Nancy's target market. 

    My list can go on and on that your just a NGE butthurt or didn't even play the game because it was too hard for you and made you actually earn something. In other words, NGE butthurt or a WoW baby, which is it?

     

     

     

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  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,061

    Originally posted by Bardus

     

     I actually didn't mind legacy quest. A themepark for leveling is better than just mob grinding by far for me.

     

    I agree with this part. Legacy did make the grind process less of a grind. I never got what wsa so fun about spawn hunting and spin groups. Getting together with players to slaughter bols and pickets isn't very heroic and makes no sense lore wise.

    They should have waited however on implementing this until the quest line was completed. At release a player could only get to level 40 with it. After that, they had to go grind or hit the expansion planets.

     

     I fail to see an issue here.

    Me neither. There's nothing wrong with providing some visual aids to a player that is new to the game. What point is there to making feautures that  are hidden from the player to enjoy?

     

     

    What nerf is this you speek of? Death penalties, OK that was dumbed down. Vehicle speed? Why is that an issue again?

     

    I know on NGE release that NPCs were a son of a gun to beat. Trying to figure out the new targeting system was hard enough, but add in the NPCs that would swamp you in hordes and firing at insane speeds made it incredibly difficult. They actually had to slow that all down a bit due to complaints.

     

    My list can go on and on that your just a NGE butthurt or didn't even play the game because it was too hard for you and made you actually earn something. In other words, NGE butthurt or a WoW baby, which is it?

     

     PRE-CU Fan who never wanted to admit to the even the few things that NGE got right. Somewhat understandable considering the way entire professions were yanked out and years of hard work gone in a flash. It is ironic to see history repeated years later and players acting suprised and butthurt all about it considering the history of the game and the people that run it.

     

     

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • ObraikObraik Member Posts: 7,261

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by grapevine


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by grapevine


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by grapevine

    That was only after the NGE, where the cross-hair based targeting system replaced the more tranditional method of tab targetting.   The NGE combat system was akin to that used in TERA, just not as developed technically.   Pre-NGE movement, etc, was more traditional and are the movement controls used by most modern mmos.

    No you are missinformed on that.

    I promisse you, what Obraik said is true, you start auto-run, and the control direction with the mouse without pressing any addional buttons.

    May I suggest you try out any of the emulaters and try it out.

     

    I must admit its been many years, since I played SWG.   Although did so until just after the NGE.   I do however recall (rightly or wrongly) it using traditonal controls, as stated.  Pressing auto-run and it locking controls to the mouse may well be something in addition, but I don't recall.   On the emulator front, have been very temped, but not for testing control :)

     

    Anyway just tested it on SWTOR, and with auto-run on you only need to hold down the right mouse button to control direction, not both.  That is the more traditional method.

    Pre-cu had modeless chat as default, not WASD-controls for movment. Hitting W would make you start typing W in the chat.

    That's why all shortcuts for menu commands were in combination with Ctrl, i.e. Ctrl+I for Inventory. Exception was in space, where you could control your ship with WASD (or the mouse), and you had to hit Enter to activate the chat. Two different UIs.

     

    Yes, now recall it was orginally right mouse button to move.  That was replaced though, and it still leaves SWG being the one with the less traditional controls.

    You did not HAVE TO press any mosue button to control movement/direction with the mouse.

    And THAT's what Obraik was missing from SWTOR. 

     

    Typically, you hit auto-run and then use the mouse as a direction control when travelling longer distances. No pressing of any keys or buttons involved. To stop movements, you hit auto-run again (or the right mouse button).

    Exactly.  SWG had the concept of cursor lock mode and you'd use to alternate between these two modes.  In lock mode, to move around all you had to do was start auto-running and then you didn't need to hold any extra buttons; you simply changed the direction your character moved by moving the mouse around or if you preferred, used your direction keys on the keyboard.

    While the defaults for controls were changed throughout the games revamps, the fundamental lock/unlock state of the cursor was always there.  You also had the freedom to have the game controls setup how you liked.  In my case, right up until the end the controls I used were pretty much the same as what they were when I first started. I loved non-modal chat as it meant I could start typing into the chat box without having to press enter and had the added benefit of allowing me to continue using abilities/UI shortcuts while having the chat box active (ie, you were busy typing when a Spy decided to jump you).  I've yet to see a game have this particular feature. 

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