Originally posted by eddieg50 I have to agree with Sov here, SWTOR is an extension of what we saw in Kotar and other bioware games with added grouping (i have gouped more in this game than any other mmo) and other mmo elements in it. This is what Bioware does, I love the fact that they combined their single player rpg goodness into an mmo and I look forward ( the game has only been out for a short period of time) to other refinements (fleshed out space game) and further story lines. I think many people went into this thinking this was going to be completely different than what Bioware always does, why they thought that is beyond me. I was expecting a combo of baldurs gate, dragon age, me1, 2 all morphed into a vision of what Bioware thinks an mmo should be and I was rewarded as such
When the long term beta testers were telling bio that the "mmo" is going to flop and others couldn't find the desire to even download the latest beta build... should have have signaled somthing? Moreover, other comments were peppered with "I've cancled my order".
Since launch, Bioware certinly fired everyone from the original development team they could seem to find, and others have serendipitously "left the project".
Now when you have a 200 to 300 million dollar investment, is it logical to take such a learning disabled approch? Bioware had the hubris of not listening, and got wrapped up in that they "thought they knew", rather than what the evidence was showing. This has the finger prints of lucas arts all over it.
The fact of the matter is Bio / LA thought they could design an MMO and take the human element out of the equation. They didn't want you to have an impact on the game world whatever, thusly they could do everything on the cheap going forward. But they discovered the rats were a little smater than they thought.
It sounds like you are over thinking the process, Bioware did what Bioware does best, there are going to be many who apprecaite it and some who dont. Take Eve for example, I cant stand that game, I dont like looking at little dots on a black screen, it is not a game to me, more of like a chat room with the game a secondary experience. Yet there are many who love the game, to each his own I guess. I am glad Bioware did what it does best because I like Bioware games-nuff said
A lot of TOR's harshest critics are Bioware fans. I know I am. A top 10 list of PC games, Bioware earns at least 3 of those titles no doubt. This game certainly was not "what Bioware does best." The writing wasn't inspired. The VO was good, but grew old. Hell, even in their single player games on occasion I will be spacebarring through the VO, especially if I've played the game more than once. The "story" such as it is, only is going to make up around 5% of a players time in an MMO, even this one.
You said 4 interesting things, "A lot of TOR's harshest critics are Bioware fans" "This game certainly was not what Bioware does best" ""I will be spacebarring through the VO" and " The story SUCH AS IT IS only is going to make up around 5% of a players time" Well those are some statements! I don't even know where to begin- whew! Well it is true there are some Bioware fans who are disappointed in biowares interpretation of an mmo, everything I have read makes me believe that the majority of Bioware fans love or at least like SWTOR. This is a game where if you are going to be spacebarring the cut scenes and voice overs you wll lose immersion into the game, you may not even know what is going on, would you space bar your way through Dragon age, Me1, 2, or 3 or heaven forbid Baldurs Gate Shadows of Amin-NO NO NO. Why would you bother playing a Bioware game if you were going to space bar the dialog??????? The story such as it is? I found the story to be filled with political intrigue, back stabbing , switching loyalties, pretending to be loyal to one and then betraying him or her in the end, so I found the story quite enjoyable certainly much better than any mmo with the exception of the first 20 levels of AOC. The story makes up more than 5% of a players time, but its real purpose is to make the rest of the mmo more enjoyable, how many people race to the end game because the current mmo they are playing sucks and lacks story line and quests that are worth reading. WOW did a fairly nice job here with Cat , the two new races actually have a nice story line for the first 20 or so levels but you still have to read that wall of text. I laughed for about 10 minutes when you wrote that the game certainly was not what Bioware does best, I dint mean to criticize you or make you look foolish but YES THIS IS WHAT BIOWARE DOES BEST, there specialty is not combat(although I like the combat in this game), it is not crafting or PvP, It is story pure and simple and I don't think Bioware should have to apologize for doing what they think (and many people agree) is their version of an mmo.
It sounds like you are over thinking the process, Bioware did what Bioware does best, there are going to be many who apprecaite it and some who dont. Take Eve for example, I cant stand that game, I dont like looking at little dots on a black screen, it is not a game to me, more of like a chat room with the game a secondary experience. Yet there are many who love the game, to each his own I guess. I am glad Bioware did what it does best because I like Bioware games-nuff said
There is an important difference between Eve and TOR though, Eve was budgeted to be substainable and profitable at a much lower subscriber number, thus allowing for its more 'niche' focus. While 300k subs is good for Eve, it would be a disaster for TOR.
We have seen BW comments, that also do not support the premise that BW is just only targeting a small Niche group, and the rest can all just go away. People claimed that PVP was not really important for BW, yet we see that Ilium is on their priority list, not only garnering Developer comments and admittal of mistakes, but warrenting a complete overhaul.
Imo, BW was looking for large scale subscriptions, from a number of aspects of the MMO consumer, rather than only looking for subs from the single player, story only, BW fans. They were looking for Mmorpgers, like WoW customers, not just BW fans.
Why would you bother playing a Bioware game if you were going to space bar the dialog??????? The story such as it is? I found the story to be filled with political intrigue, back stabbing , switching loyalties, pretending to be loyal to one and then betraying him or her in the end, so I found the story quite enjoyable certainly much better than any mmo with the exception of the first 20 levels of AOC.
Well Bioware implemented the space-bar long before beta, so that people could skip the VO's. They have done that in most of their games -- likely because the recognize that some of their customers do not care to listen to every line of VO.
The story is purely subjective, and varies from person to person. While you may find the story compelling, others can and do find it quite bland and dry. Niether is 'right', and both should be respected.
Bioware developers have openly stated that TOR has its problems. They have admitted to design mistakes, and are seeking feedback (allegedly).
Comments
You said 4 interesting things, "A lot of TOR's harshest critics are Bioware fans" "This game certainly was not what Bioware does best" ""I will be spacebarring through the VO" and " The story SUCH AS IT IS only is going to make up around 5% of a players time" Well those are some statements! I don't even know where to begin- whew! Well it is true there are some Bioware fans who are disappointed in biowares interpretation of an mmo, everything I have read makes me believe that the majority of Bioware fans love or at least like SWTOR. This is a game where if you are going to be spacebarring the cut scenes and voice overs you wll lose immersion into the game, you may not even know what is going on, would you space bar your way through Dragon age, Me1, 2, or 3 or heaven forbid Baldurs Gate Shadows of Amin-NO NO NO. Why would you bother playing a Bioware game if you were going to space bar the dialog??????? The story such as it is? I found the story to be filled with political intrigue, back stabbing , switching loyalties, pretending to be loyal to one and then betraying him or her in the end, so I found the story quite enjoyable certainly much better than any mmo with the exception of the first 20 levels of AOC. The story makes up more than 5% of a players time, but its real purpose is to make the rest of the mmo more enjoyable, how many people race to the end game because the current mmo they are playing sucks and lacks story line and quests that are worth reading. WOW did a fairly nice job here with Cat , the two new races actually have a nice story line for the first 20 or so levels but you still have to read that wall of text. I laughed for about 10 minutes when you wrote that the game certainly was not what Bioware does best, I dint mean to criticize you or make you look foolish but YES THIS IS WHAT BIOWARE DOES BEST, there specialty is not combat(although I like the combat in this game), it is not crafting or PvP, It is story pure and simple and I don't think Bioware should have to apologize for doing what they think (and many people agree) is their version of an mmo.
Maybe they ment emersion, which is what I did with my skull did for hours after playing it.
There is an important difference between Eve and TOR though, Eve was budgeted to be substainable and profitable at a much lower subscriber number, thus allowing for its more 'niche' focus. While 300k subs is good for Eve, it would be a disaster for TOR.
We have seen BW comments, that also do not support the premise that BW is just only targeting a small Niche group, and the rest can all just go away. People claimed that PVP was not really important for BW, yet we see that Ilium is on their priority list, not only garnering Developer comments and admittal of mistakes, but warrenting a complete overhaul.
Imo, BW was looking for large scale subscriptions, from a number of aspects of the MMO consumer, rather than only looking for subs from the single player, story only, BW fans. They were looking for Mmorpgers, like WoW customers, not just BW fans.
Well Bioware implemented the space-bar long before beta, so that people could skip the VO's. They have done that in most of their games -- likely because the recognize that some of their customers do not care to listen to every line of VO.
The story is purely subjective, and varies from person to person. While you may find the story compelling, others can and do find it quite bland and dry. Niether is 'right', and both should be respected.
Bioware developers have openly stated that TOR has its problems. They have admitted to design mistakes, and are seeking feedback (allegedly).