After my lastest forray into SWTOR I've finally had it with the genre. That is, I can't really comprehend what's happened over the last 10 years or so. Is this really all a result of WoW? Is this the result of investors wanting the companies to play it 'safe'? What has happened?
A little about me: I started playing mmo's in 98 with Ultima Online, from there I went to Everquest, Asherons call, Shadowbane/DAOC and on and on. I've played every single AAA mmo to have come out over the years as well as many smaller ones. I've watched the genre go from extreme hardcore (Everquest 1 death penalty, Ultima online full loot) to theme parks with 3 or 4 battlegrounds. PvP has clearly taken a 'min-game' type feel to it. Death penaltys are long gone from most MMOs. Real challenge is found in the form of raids that take entire days and are made up of min/maxers.
I guess I'm asking how the genre ended up here? 8 years or so ago when Star Wars Galaxies was released it was a full loot, merciless game...2 months ago when TOR was released it was a WoW clone with the Star Wars IP attached. Even games with successful past as more hardcore games have taken the WoW route..Mythic is a prime example of this: DAOC with 3 factions and a massive end game open world pvp area was replaced by Batrtleground heavy and cartoonish Warhammer. Lord of the Rings online could have had epic PvP with such a solid storyline, instead we get some strange monster play.
Rift is no different, its a WoW clone with a twist on professions. Everquest 1 is another prime example, one of the most hardcore PvE games ever made was turned into a cartoony solo-friendly (and far less popular) Everquest 2.
I just don't understand. It seems the demand is certainly there, and Guild Wars 2 shows lots of promise but why has it taken so long? I look over the game list at left and all I see are WoW clones with different twists on the unimportant aspects. The genre hasn't grown stale, it's been stale for the last 10 years.
A company like Bioware should have known better: In the Star Wars universe which at its core is a story of good vs evil, dark vs light, Jedi vs Sith, we instead are given Huttball and a terrible designed small open world area where there is no death penalty and you can insta spawn and run right back into the fight.
So I guess I leave this with a few questions: Why did the genre take this route? the route of safety, the route of WoW cloneing? And more importantly, why do the gamers continue to support this? (I'm as guilty as anyone)...Seemingly every new AAA game gets super uber hyped by the mmo community (just look at TOR) releases and is a major let-down. Population tanks and that's that. Rinse and repeat with the next MMO.
This is what happend....
"No longer are MMOs are created with the expectation that anything can happen. Those days are long past. If players were left to forge their own destinies it would result in chaos and conflict which would be unacceptable to the story obsessed new breed of video game designer who insists that every aspect of what a player does should be tightly controlled and scripted. You see, you as a player can’t be trusted.
Instead MMOs have become virtual sausage factories where the spectator-like player sits back and enjoys the ride. Game design has been reduced to process of crafting every moment of the player experience — nothing is left to chance — a philosophy that would make amusement park tycoon Walt Disney proud."
- Wolfshead
Sausage factories that is what we are left with 8 years after WoW release... People did warn us though.. Myself Included we have been complaining for years now.. but Im glad more of you are waking up... I think it might be time for us to "RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE".... Stand up and fight!!!!
If Rift wasn't a failure it wouldn't have to merge servers. They got a quick cash grab in box sales then people stopped playing because its the same old same old. And SWTOR is tanking fast.
And yet they made 100 million in profit in 2011. I am glad your definition of 'failure' is not a universal one.
And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...
Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Notice/Interest..
That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...
MMORPGs went from nerd nightclubs to corporate driven mainstream entertainment alternatives to watching TV and movies.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Rift isn't a failure neither is SWTOR..the verdict is still out on that one. Not every MMo needs to beat WOW to be called success.
No, they don't need to beat WoW, but good MMOs continue to grow after release, as word spreads of their quality. I'd define success as being generally well liked. Bad MMOs bleed subs, people generally don't like them and quit, so word of mouth is terrible, and they don't get many new players, either.
As this implies, yeah, it's been a really long time since the genre has seen a good successful MMO. It'll be interesting to see if any of the 2012 releases prove to finally change that. I won't hold me breath, but think it's possible.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...
Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Interest..
That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...
Re: getting a bunch to sub to a sandbox - ok, I'm in... on a 1 paycheck a month thing so give me advance notice. Oh... were you being sarcastic? Cause I like the idea.
And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...
Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Interest..
That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...
Re: getting a bunch to sub to a sandbox - ok, I'm in... on a 1 paycheck a month thing so give me advance notice. Oh... were you being sarcastic? Cause I like the idea.
No I wasent.. The thing is we need to organize it and make a comunity... THen Publicly Announce that we are now all subing..
Dream would be to get like 10k people or more to do it.. I think the mainstream media would take notice if enough people would come onboard for something like this.
Also stating that we could be playing there games if they just had what we wanted... Getting 100k people would bring about a change in the industry for sure... but Dont think we could ever get those numbers but who knows..
Rift isn't a failure neither is SWTOR..the verdict is still out on that one. Not every MMo needs to beat WOW to be called success.
No, they don't need to beat WoW, but good MMOs continue to grow after release, as word spreads of their quality. I'd define success as being generally well liked. Bad MMOs bleed subs, people generally don't like them and quit, so word of mouth is terrible, and they don't get many new players, either.
As this implies, yeah, it's been a really long time since the genre has seen a good successful MMO. It'll be interesting to see if any of the 2012 releases prove to finally change that. I won't hold me breath, but think it's possible.
So you are telling me that 100 million turnout for Trion in 2011 is not a success? yes there has been a long time a MMO has not been as successful as WOW.. if you keep comparing with WOW you will never get a successful MMO..not even in near future. WOW is an exception not a norm.
I can sympathize. I miss the "good ol'days" myself. However, twenty years have passed. What you're saying is akin to listening to Vanilla Ice [or Lil' Wayne or Eminem - take your pick] and getting upset that he doesn't sound like The Beatles.
I can sympathize. I miss the "good ol'days" myself. However, twenty years have passed. What you're saying is akin to listening to Vanilla Ice [or Lil' Wayne or Eminem - take your pick] and getting upset that he doesn't sound like The Beatles.
I actually listen to Eminem and get upset that he doesn't sound like Eminem anymore. He's gone commercial just like all the MMO's.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...
Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Interest..
That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...
Re: getting a bunch to sub to a sandbox - ok, I'm in... on a 1 paycheck a month thing so give me advance notice. Oh... were you being sarcastic? Cause I like the idea.
No I wasent.. The thing is we need to organize it and make a comunity... THen Publicly Announce that we are now all subing..
Dream would be to get like 10k people or more to do it.. I think the mainstream media would take notice if enough people would come onboard for something like this
ok now you have 2. Will most likely be resubbing to EVE tomorrow. Please keep me informed.
I can sympathize. I miss the "good ol'days" myself. However, twenty years have passed. What you're saying is akin to listening to Vanilla Ice [or Lil' Wayne or Eminem - take your pick] and getting upset that he doesn't sound like The Beatles.
I think you are taking this a litte to far now.. what we are complaining about is that there is no Player vs player interaction, and no way to effect the Themeparks and that they are just build like SLOT machines.. with RIDES to keep people entertained.. But there are no tools to build our own Rides.. or make our own fun. Like it was in the good old days...
If Rift wasn't a failure it wouldn't have to merge servers. They got a quick cash grab in box sales then people stopped playing because its the same old same old. And SWTOR is tanking fast.
And yet they made 100 million in profit in 2011. I am glad your definition of 'failure' is not a universal one.
It made 100 million. Period. Not in profit. I'm sure they did make a profit though, but I can't imagine it's a big one considering their population is taking a nose dive. They made money off of month 1 box sales, just as AoC did, and now they're tanking.
Rift isn't a failure neither is SWTOR..the verdict is still out on that one. Not every MMo needs to beat WOW to be called success.
No, they don't need to beat WoW, but good MMOs continue to grow after release, as word spreads of their quality. I'd define success as being generally well liked. Bad MMOs bleed subs, people generally don't like them and quit, so word of mouth is terrible, and they don't get many new players, either.
As this implies, yeah, it's been a really long time since the genre has seen a good successful MMO. It'll be interesting to see if any of the 2012 releases prove to finally change that. I won't hold me breath, but think it's possible.
So you are telling me that 100 million turnout for Trion in 2011 is not a success? yes there has been a long time a MMO has not been as successful as WOW.. if you keep comparing with WOW you will never get a successful MMO..not even in near future. WOW is an exception not a norm.
Look, no one is going after Rift, or your favorite MMO. If you enjoy Rift, that's all you need, I'm glad for you. It's not a bad game, it's just nothing new, that's all. I'm glad rift is doing fine, I'm glad they made a profit, but it doesnt change the points in the OP. Rift brings nothing new to the table besides the ability to switch classes on a whim.
It's same old, same old when it comes to PvP, it is same old same old when it comes to quest, it is same old same old when it comes to everything else.
And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...
Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Notice/Interest..
That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...
The "industry" didn't notice 8 failed WoW clones in a row, they're not going to notice people subbing to sandbox games. The "industry" is run by publishers who don't know ANYTHING about the MMO market or what makes a game a success. That's why most veteran developers have switched to indie mobile markets. Publishers are murder.
I can sympathize. I miss the "good ol'days" myself. However, twenty years have passed. What you're saying is akin to listening to Vanilla Ice [or Lil' Wayne or Eminem - take your pick] and getting upset that he doesn't sound like The Beatles.
I just got my new Martin Logans and Beatles sounds ever better now.
I can tell you what happened -- excessive FAIRNESS.
What the early MMOs had that recent MMOs do not is that they were UNFAIR.
Note unfair was a GOOD thing....
-----
Lets look at class balance first...
Today -- everyone has to be EQUAL... Everything needs to be fair... If one class can kill monster X solo -- then another class can probably kill monster X solo as well.
Now look at something like everquest as it was at release...
SOME classes could solo really well -- other classes under some situations -- some classes couldnt solo pretty much AT ALL. Some classes pretty much even needed escort to get back to the dungeon or they would die trying to get there.
Some classes had gate and bind and speed and other classes did NOT. If you played a warrior type in everquest 1 then you had to run to get there and you had to run to get back. You did NOT have gate. If you wanted to change your bind point you had to find someone to bind you somewhere. And it had to be in a town where the caster could bind just about anywhere.
It wasnt FAIR. It didnt NEED to be fair.
That caster had far lower strength than the warrior. He couldnt carry as much stuff. Nowadays all games have just slots and everyone can carry the same amount -- it is FAIR... Fair is not always good.
----
Look at items...
It is unfair that someone can build up money and then just buy that uber item with coin... They should have to do the dungeon themselves... Hence we got BoP -- it is FAIR...
Look at racial abilities...
It is unfair that race X has power Y because that makes it better than my race... Hence to be FAIR we get homoginized races where racials do not really mean anything.
Even racial stats/class choice.
It is unfair that ogres have a huge amount more strength than an pixie. I want to play my pixie warrior and do as much damage as ogres.... Hence we ended up with losing the racial stats and we ended up all ARAP(all races all professions) instead of having classes limited to races that would logically have them.
----
What we are currently suffering from is an excess of FAIRNESS... If things were a lot more unfair then people would have a lot better time with the games.
Amen, preach it! Nothing worse than a gnome warrior hitting as hard as a tauren...it's just ludicrous
Thirty years of gaming experience...not sure if I should be proud of that www.mmoexaminer.blogspot.com
Rift isn't a failure neither is SWTOR..the verdict is still out on that one. Not every MMo needs to beat WOW to be called success.
No, they don't need to beat WoW, but good MMOs continue to grow after release, as word spreads of their quality. I'd define success as being generally well liked. Bad MMOs bleed subs, people generally don't like them and quit, so word of mouth is terrible, and they don't get many new players, either.
As this implies, yeah, it's been a really long time since the genre has seen a good successful MMO. It'll be interesting to see if any of the 2012 releases prove to finally change that. I won't hold me breath, but think it's possible.
So you are telling me that 100 million turnout for Trion in 2011 is not a success? yes there has been a long time a MMO has not been as successful as WOW.. if you keep comparing with WOW you will never get a successful MMO..not even in near future. WOW is an exception not a norm.
Look, no one is going after Rift, or your favorite MMO. If you enjoy Rift, that's all you need, I'm glad for you. It's not a bad game, it's just nothing new, that's all. I'm glad rift is doing fine, I'm glad they made a profit, but it doesnt change the points in the OP. Rift brings nothing new to the table besides the ability to switch classes on a whim.
It's same old, same old when it comes to PvP, it is same old same old when it comes to quest, it is same old same old when it comes to everything else.
Why do you assume only because someone brign forward facts or valid informaiton he is defending his favorite game? i have not even played Rift not once..not even SWTOR..But i like to keep updated myself with what goes in MMO world.
The point of your post i quoted was to show that Rift failed, EQ2 is empty and SWTOR is a failure too..and you are completely wrong in all three categories. I actually liked your OP and i even mentioned that. but it is sometimes OK to go with valid information than just posting pure hyperbole and false info to make your point. And it happens quite a lot here.
I can tell you what happened -- excessive FAIRNESS.
What the early MMOs had that recent MMOs do not is that they were UNFAIR.
Note unfair was a GOOD thing....
-----
Lets look at class balance first...
Today -- everyone has to be EQUAL... Everything needs to be fair... If one class can kill monster X solo -- then another class can probably kill monster X solo as well.
Now look at something like everquest as it was at release...
SOME classes could solo really well -- other classes under some situations -- some classes couldnt solo pretty much AT ALL. Some classes pretty much even needed escort to get back to the dungeon or they would die trying to get there.
Some classes had gate and bind and speed and other classes did NOT. If you played a warrior type in everquest 1 then you had to run to get there and you had to run to get back. You did NOT have gate. If you wanted to change your bind point you had to find someone to bind you somewhere. And it had to be in a town where the caster could bind just about anywhere.
It wasnt FAIR. It didnt NEED to be fair.
That caster had far lower strength than the warrior. He couldnt carry as much stuff. Nowadays all games have just slots and everyone can carry the same amount -- it is FAIR... Fair is not always good.
----
Look at items...
It is unfair that someone can build up money and then just buy that uber item with coin... They should have to do the dungeon themselves... Hence we got BoP -- it is FAIR...
Look at racial abilities...
It is unfair that race X has power Y because that makes it better than my race... Hence to be FAIR we get homoginized races where racials do not really mean anything.
Even racial stats/class choice.
It is unfair that ogres have a huge amount more strength than an pixie. I want to play my pixie warrior and do as much damage as ogres.... Hence we ended up with losing the racial stats and we ended up all ARAP(all races all professions) instead of having classes limited to races that would logically have them.
----
What we are currently suffering from is an excess of FAIRNESS... If things were a lot more unfair then people would have a lot better time with the games.
Amen, preach it! Nothing worse than a gnome warrior hitting as hard as a tauren...it's just ludicrous
This is a fair point, and has played a major part in the dissembleing of any form of community within the MMO genre. When everyone is special, nobody is. You don't need otherse for anything anymore except the most extreme raids..even guilds have taken a back seat in most casual mmo's.
Game hoppers are one of the problems we see in todays games. Game comes out, hoppers jump on it causing the company to create tons of shards/servers. Hoppers leave, ghostservers remain causing mergers which inturn brings outcry that the game is dying.
Another, though I havent seen lately, was the lifetime sub fee. Great for player, bad for game. As financing goes away, game stagnates.
And lastly, believing that you will and should like every game made. All this does is create a single format for supposedly profitable games that the developers will not deviate from.
Im not saying support Indie games either, well the crappy ones anyway. Put your money behind quality products, the term quality is subjective, and hopefully the genre of mmorpgs will become nice and diverse.
Just take a gander at the advertising on this site. It is full of suspect games who think the only way to get people to join is to but some T and A in the ad. They wouldnt do that if it wasnt working.
And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...
Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Notice/Interest..
That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...
The "industry" didn't notice 8 failed WoW clones in a row, they're not going to notice people subbing to sandbox games. The "industry" is run by publishers who don't know ANYTHING about the MMO market or what makes a game a success. That's why most veteran developers have switched to indie mobile markets. Publishers are murder.
yes, true.. however if a lot of people get up and sub to a sandbox.. whicever one - then that game gets the funding to do more and better things. That would attract more people. I don't care if the ndustry notices, I just want people getting together and enjoying a game. The more that do - the more reward for that developer.
8 years or so ago when Star Wars Galaxies was released it was a full loot, merciless game...
Wait...
When was SWG full loot and merciless?
I don't remember that at all. SWG had completely consensual PvP and a light death penalty (some XP to grind off) and after coming to SWG from UO I thought SWG was total easy mode.
8 years or so ago when Star Wars Galaxies was released it was a full loot, merciless game...
Wait...
When was SWG full loot and merciless?
I don't remember that at all. SWG had completely consensual PvP and a light death penalty (some XP to grind off) and after coming to SWG from UO I thought SWG was total easy mode.
Yeah i don't remember SWG being full loot either and i was there at release.
Comments
This is what happend....
"No longer are MMOs are created with the expectation that anything can happen. Those days are long past. If players were left to forge their own destinies it would result in chaos and conflict which would be unacceptable to the story obsessed new breed of video game designer who insists that every aspect of what a player does should be tightly controlled and scripted. You see, you as a player can’t be trusted.
Instead MMOs have become virtual sausage factories where the spectator-like player sits back and enjoys the ride. Game design has been reduced to process of crafting every moment of the player experience — nothing is left to chance — a philosophy that would make amusement park tycoon Walt Disney proud."
- Wolfshead
Sausage factories that is what we are left with 8 years after WoW release... People did warn us though.. Myself Included we have been complaining for years now.. but Im glad more of you are waking up... I think it might be time for us to "RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE".... Stand up and fight!!!!
And yet they made 100 million in profit in 2011. I am glad your definition of 'failure' is not a universal one.
And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...
Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Notice/Interest..
That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...
MMORPGs went from nerd nightclubs to corporate driven mainstream entertainment alternatives to watching TV and movies.
No, they don't need to beat WoW, but good MMOs continue to grow after release, as word spreads of their quality. I'd define success as being generally well liked. Bad MMOs bleed subs, people generally don't like them and quit, so word of mouth is terrible, and they don't get many new players, either.
As this implies, yeah, it's been a really long time since the genre has seen a good successful MMO. It'll be interesting to see if any of the 2012 releases prove to finally change that. I won't hold me breath, but think it's possible.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Re: getting a bunch to sub to a sandbox - ok, I'm in... on a 1 paycheck a month thing so give me advance notice. Oh... were you being sarcastic? Cause I like the idea.
Currently bored with MMO's.
No I wasent.. The thing is we need to organize it and make a comunity... THen Publicly Announce that we are now all subing..
Dream would be to get like 10k people or more to do it.. I think the mainstream media would take notice if enough people would come onboard for something like this.
Also stating that we could be playing there games if they just had what we wanted... Getting 100k people would bring about a change in the industry for sure... but Dont think we could ever get those numbers but who knows..
So you are telling me that 100 million turnout for Trion in 2011 is not a success? yes there has been a long time a MMO has not been as successful as WOW.. if you keep comparing with WOW you will never get a successful MMO..not even in near future. WOW is an exception not a norm.
I can sympathize. I miss the "good ol'days" myself. However, twenty years have passed. What you're saying is akin to listening to Vanilla Ice [or Lil' Wayne or Eminem - take your pick] and getting upset that he doesn't sound like The Beatles.
I actually listen to Eminem and get upset that he doesn't sound like Eminem anymore. He's gone commercial just like all the MMO's.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
ok now you have 2. Will most likely be resubbing to EVE tomorrow. Please keep me informed.
Currently bored with MMO's.
I think you are taking this a litte to far now.. what we are complaining about is that there is no Player vs player interaction, and no way to effect the Themeparks and that they are just build like SLOT machines.. with RIDES to keep people entertained.. But there are no tools to build our own Rides.. or make our own fun. Like it was in the good old days...
It made 100 million. Period. Not in profit. I'm sure they did make a profit though, but I can't imagine it's a big one considering their population is taking a nose dive. They made money off of month 1 box sales, just as AoC did, and now they're tanking.
Look, no one is going after Rift, or your favorite MMO. If you enjoy Rift, that's all you need, I'm glad for you. It's not a bad game, it's just nothing new, that's all. I'm glad rift is doing fine, I'm glad they made a profit, but it doesnt change the points in the OP. Rift brings nothing new to the table besides the ability to switch classes on a whim.
It's same old, same old when it comes to PvP, it is same old same old when it comes to quest, it is same old same old when it comes to everything else.
The "industry" didn't notice 8 failed WoW clones in a row, they're not going to notice people subbing to sandbox games. The "industry" is run by publishers who don't know ANYTHING about the MMO market or what makes a game a success. That's why most veteran developers have switched to indie mobile markets. Publishers are murder.
I just got my new Martin Logans and Beatles sounds ever better now.
Let's internet
Amen, preach it! Nothing worse than a gnome warrior hitting as hard as a tauren...it's just ludicrous
Thirty years of gaming experience...not sure if I should be proud of that
www.mmoexaminer.blogspot.com
Not sure, but he killed Cypher 2.0 with Yellawulf, so he is still a beast. Anyways a better analogy would be Grunge going main stream.
Why do you assume only because someone brign forward facts or valid informaiton he is defending his favorite game? i have not even played Rift not once..not even SWTOR..But i like to keep updated myself with what goes in MMO world.
The point of your post i quoted was to show that Rift failed, EQ2 is empty and SWTOR is a failure too..and you are completely wrong in all three categories. I actually liked your OP and i even mentioned that. but it is sometimes OK to go with valid information than just posting pure hyperbole and false info to make your point. And it happens quite a lot here.
This is a fair point, and has played a major part in the dissembleing of any form of community within the MMO genre. When everyone is special, nobody is. You don't need otherse for anything anymore except the most extreme raids..even guilds have taken a back seat in most casual mmo's.
Game hoppers are one of the problems we see in todays games. Game comes out, hoppers jump on it causing the company to create tons of shards/servers. Hoppers leave, ghostservers remain causing mergers which inturn brings outcry that the game is dying.
Another, though I havent seen lately, was the lifetime sub fee. Great for player, bad for game. As financing goes away, game stagnates.
And lastly, believing that you will and should like every game made. All this does is create a single format for supposedly profitable games that the developers will not deviate from.
Im not saying support Indie games either, well the crappy ones anyway. Put your money behind quality products, the term quality is subjective, and hopefully the genre of mmorpgs will become nice and diverse.
Just take a gander at the advertising on this site. It is full of suspect games who think the only way to get people to join is to but some T and A in the ad. They wouldnt do that if it wasnt working.
yes, true.. however if a lot of people get up and sub to a sandbox.. whicever one - then that game gets the funding to do more and better things. That would attract more people. I don't care if the ndustry notices, I just want people getting together and enjoying a game. The more that do - the more reward for that developer.
Currently bored with MMO's.
Wait...
When was SWG full loot and merciless?
I don't remember that at all. SWG had completely consensual PvP and a light death penalty (some XP to grind off) and after coming to SWG from UO I thought SWG was total easy mode.
Yeah i don't remember SWG being full loot either and i was there at release.