It is a FREE world. The developers are FREE to charge their work whatever way they want to. You, OTOH, are FREE to NOT purchase.
I don't see a problem.
If Blizzard makes a nice flying dragon and wants to charge $25, who are we to argue? It is THEIR dragon. And if *I* like it enough to pay $25, who are YOU to say i should not.
Obviously you won't .. but that is your choice, which is perfectly fine.
Folks, if we end up with too many blind "settlers" (as seen in the above quote), prepare to start pulling your wallets an awful lot more if you have the intention of continuing gaming within this genre.
It was enough that we had to buy the box, pay a monthly subscription, and buy expansions to play a video game. Withholding content (of any type big or small) for the sake of charging beyond the box/sub/expansion model is completely looney tunes. Several years ago, I would have thought that no one (in the West) in their right mind would of ever even considered anything other than laughing at such a ridiculous proposition. However, I never saw this coming. So fortunately, I never made any bets.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
It is a FREE world. The developers are FREE to charge their work whatever way they want to. You, OTOH, are FREE to NOT purchase.
I don't see a problem.
If Blizzard makes a nice flying dragon and wants to charge $25, who are we to argue? It is THEIR dragon. And if *I* like it enough to pay $25, who are YOU to say i should not.
Obviously you won't .. but that is your choice, which is perfectly fine.
Folks, if we end up with too many blind "settlers" (as seen in the above quote), prepare to start pulling your wallets an awful lot more if you have the intention of continuing gaming within this genre.
It was enough that we had to buy the box, pay a monthly subscription, and buy expansions to play a video game. Withholding content (of any type big or small) for the sake of charging beyond the box/sub/expansion model is completely looney tunes. Several years ago, I would have thought that no one (in the West) in their right mind would of ever even considered anything other than laughing at such a ridiculous proposition. However, I never saw this coming. So fortunately, I never made any bets.
If the price is too high, i can always find entertainment somewhere else. It is not like MMO is the only entertainment option out there.
Once again, the developers are FREE to do with their game. If you don't like it, don't play it.
And i do not see why they should not? The shiney phony in WOW sell MILLIONS. It would be stupid for a developer NOT to do it.
Originally posted by Jaedor Here's the reality: You buy the box or DLC and what you just bought is yours. If you pay for a subscription, you are paying rent to be able to play the game you own on someone else's server. And within that game there may be a store selling cosmetic or convenience items that you can access from time to time if you feel like it.
Actually, the only thing you [physically] own is the game packaging/discs. The account is owned by the game company, the subscription is considered rent for the account that you're "borrowing". The game company can do whatever they like with the account at any given time without any warning whatsoever. Makes you wonder...
If the price is too high, i can always find entertainment somewhere else. It is not like MMO is the only entertainment option out there. Yuppers. I currently enjoy many different forms of entertainment.
Once again, the developers are FREE to do with their game. If you don't like it, don't play it. And I won't. But, as mmos are a form of entertainment I've been enjoying for many years, I will voice my opinion on an mmo website when I see the genre jumping the shark.
And i do not see why they should not? The shiney phony in WOW sell MILLIONS. It would be stupid for a developer NOT to do it. Blizzy did more harm than good to their name by pimping out that my little pony mount. A quick buck just isn't worth it in the long run.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
It is a FREE world. The developers are FREE to charge their work whatever way they want to. You, OTOH, are FREE to NOT purchase.
I don't see a problem.
If Blizzard makes a nice flying dragon and wants to charge $25, who are we to argue? It is THEIR dragon. And if *I* like it enough to pay $25, who are YOU to say i should not.
Obviously you won't .. but that is your choice, which is perfectly fine.
Folks, if we end up with too many blind "settlers" (as seen in the above quote), prepare to start pulling your wallets an awful lot more if you have the intention of continuing gaming within this genre.
It was enough that we had to buy the box, pay a monthly subscription, and buy expansions to play a video game. Withholding content (of any type big or small) for the sake of charging beyond the box/sub/expansion model is completely looney tunes. Several years ago, I would have thought that no one (in the West) in their right mind would of ever even considered anything other than laughing at such a ridiculous proposition. However, I never saw this coming. So fortunately, I never made any bets.
you dont HAVE To anything. if you feel compelled to spend money on items that dont affect your gameplay AT ALL, you are the one with a problem, not the genre.
better switch off your tv too, just in case you watch a teleshopping channel and go broke...
Too greedy (by my own opinion) and ultimately insulting.
I understand completely that a company wants to do their best to fully monetize their customers, and there are many people out there who are willing to spend far more than just the box price and $15/month.
But I don't make a distinction between "adding something to a cash shop" and "Withholding developed content from subscription payers". It says to me that the developer created content for the game, but paying the equivalent of a AAA game box every four months (nevermind the initial purchase price) is insufficent to make me deserving of a chance at obtaining it.
I also don't make a distinction between cosmetics and power. They're all content, and they all mean something to the game. Different people have different priorities, but to say "Cosmetics are fine, just no power" is nothing more than saying "Not in my backyard".
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs: That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
Too greedy (by my own opinion) and ultimately insulting.
I understand completely that a company wants to do their best to fully monetize their customers, and there are many people out there who are willing to spend far more than just the box price and $15/month.
But I don't make a distinction between "adding something to a cash shop" and "Withholding developed content from subscription payers". It says to me that the developer created content for the game, but paying the equivalent of a AAA game box every four months (nevermind the initial purchase price) is insufficent to make me deserving of a chance at obtaining it.
I also don't make a distinction between cosmetics and power. They're all content, and they all mean something to the game. Different people have different priorities, but to say "Cosmetics are fine, just no power" is nothing more than saying "Not in my backyard".
For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .
I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)
This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.
So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?
It is a turn off for me, I want nothing to do with games using this "money grab" tactic.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .
I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)
This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.
So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?
Depends.
Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?
To me, YES.
The way I see it, if you are regularly paying every month / 3 months / 6 months / yearly / Lifetime Sub, then that should give you fair access to anything introduced into the game, provided you earn it. Earn it with the game's currency (no I'm not including bought credits either), questing, drops, or even just logging in (like veteran player rewards). Whatever.
When companies hold back content to sell it to you repeatedly and trying to nickle and dime you every month, despite you being a regularly paying customer, I have big issues with that.
The only thing that is suitable is buying Expansion Packs, which usually meant a *massive* series of additions to the game.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Considering that the sub fee in most MMOs is a rip-off anyways, I think a sub fee with a cash shop is usually just a slap in the face. I would count LOTRO as the exception, because they give you points to buy stuff in the cash shop as a part of the subscription.
So does Funcom.
Do they? I haven't heard anything about that. Source please
Most likely he meant The Secret Wold which has a sub fee, cash shop and box price
"At the presentation we revealed that The Secret World will feature a traditional paid subscription model combined with micro-transactions through an in-game store. This information was provided as part of Funcom's financial forecast going forward, and no further details were given due to the fact that we are still working on finalizing the model."
pretty basic rule set for me when it comes to mmo's. FTP/not PTW and I will play it. FTP/ PTW and wont touch it. box+item shop wont touch it. sub only and I will play it. sub+cash shop= rot in hell before I even look at it:)
For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .
I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)
This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.
So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?
Depends.
Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?
To me, YES.
The way I see it, if you are regularly paying every month / 3 months / 6 months / yearly / Lifetime Sub, then that should give you fair access to anything introduced into the game, provided you earn it. Earn it with the game's currency (no I'm not including bought credits either), questing, drops, or even just logging in (like veteran player rewards). Whatever.
When companies hold back content to sell it to you repeatedly and trying to nickle and dime you every month, despite you being a regularly paying customer, I have big issues with that.
The only thing that is suitable is buying Expansion Packs, which usually meant a *massive* series of additions to the game.
That's cognitive bias at work.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Like it or not, its the way tje industry works now. The only two MMORPGs in the last 6 or 7 years that I know of without a cash shop of some sort is swtor and ffxiv, and if I recall ffxiv gives you a tiny amount of character slots so youll have to buy more. Could be wrong on that one though, been a while.
Xp pots and fluff items I could care less about. I have no interested in rushing to endgame so xp pots are useless to me, and fluff items. Well I never cared about those either
For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .
I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)
This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.
So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?
Depends.
Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?
To me, YES.
The way I see it, if you are regularly paying every month / 3 months / 6 months / yearly / Lifetime Sub, then that should give you fair access to anything introduced into the game, provided you earn it. Earn it with the game's currency (no I'm not including bought credits either), questing, drops, or even just logging in (like veteran player rewards). Whatever.
When companies hold back content to sell it to you repeatedly and trying to nickle and dime you every month, despite you being a regularly paying customer, I have big issues with that.
The only thing that is suitable is buying Expansion Packs, which usually meant a *massive* series of additions to the game.
That's cognitive bias at work.
Expansion Packs for PC games, which of course MMORPGs are a part of, were worth it back in the day. They really used to have to cram alot into those packs. New, large maps, more classes, more abilities for all, more gear for all, more and more of everything. Edit to add: Also, NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY ever complained, even whispered any sort of discontent in the earlier years of MMORPG gaming, about having to pay for an Expansion Pack on top of the regular subscriptions that dominated the genre then.
Now, don't confuse old school Expansion Packs with what passes as "expansions" and DLC these days. I've only seen ONE MMORPG title in all these years add massive expansions for free as part of the subscription. And that was LOTRO before the F2P move a few years ago.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
If Im already paying a sub, why am I being charged more for ingame content? Is that not what the sub is for? Sub + CashShop = greed to me. Im not buying it.
The sub is so you can fund all those talented artists while they create cash shop content that you aren't going to buy.
I have no problems paying the box price, I don't even have a problem with a sub or a cash shop. I do have a problem with being ripped off; paying for the box, a sub and a cash shop is a no go. If a game has all three the box can sit on the shelf until such time that it is free to play, I have no desire to be ripped off.
I hate cash shops and I hate esports in my mmos. But it doesnt look like that is going to change anytime soon so I just have to deal with it.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
If Im already paying a sub, why am I being charged more for ingame content? Is that not what the sub is for? Sub + CashShop = greed to me. Im not buying it.
The sub is so you can fund all those talented artists while they create cash shop content that you aren't going to buy.
Don't say that too loud. They'll start charging you a subscription fee to use shops in real life soon. A sort of wellfare system for stores that sell things that people won't buy.
Yes because its greedy to give out the points along with the sub fee so you can access the cash shop for no additional charge. in truth if you wanna argue it. they are making you spend LESS monthy if you consiter the cost for the points you are getting.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Yes because its greedy to give out the points along with the sub fee so you can access the cash shop for no additional charge. in truth if you wanna argue it. they are making you spend LESS monthy if you consiter the cost for the points you are getting.
"give out" "getting" Seriously?
First of all - you're buying them with your subscription.
Secondly - just cause they include bit of points in things you buy with your sub ,it does NOT make it better in ANY way. It still totally violate what subsription should be. Not to mention this argument totally misses point that OP made.
For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .
I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)
This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.
So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?
Depends.
Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?
To me, YES.
The way I see it, if you are regularly paying every month / 3 months / 6 months / yearly / Lifetime Sub, then that should give you fair access to anything introduced into the game, provided you earn it. Earn it with the game's currency (no I'm not including bought credits either), questing, drops, or even just logging in (like veteran player rewards). Whatever.
When companies hold back content to sell it to you repeatedly and trying to nickle and dime you every month, despite you being a regularly paying customer, I have big issues with that.
The only thing that is suitable is buying Expansion Packs, which usually meant a *massive* series of additions to the game.
That's cognitive bias at work.
Expansion Packs for PC games, which of course MMORPGs are a part of, were worth it back in the day. They really used to have to cram alot into those packs. New, large maps, more classes, more abilities for all, more gear for all, more and more of everything. Edit to add: Also, NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY ever complained, even whispered any sort of discontent in the earlier years of MMORPG gaming, about having to pay for an Expansion Pack on top of the regular subscriptions that dominated the genre then.
Now, don't confuse old school Expansion Packs with what passes as "expansions" and DLC these days. I've only seen ONE MMORPG title in all these years add massive expansions for free as part of the subscription. And that was LOTRO before the F2P move a few years ago.
Still cognitive bias. You've always paid for expansion packs, so you accept that. Now, when presented with the option to pick the features you want and pay a fraction of the price for only the content you want, rather than have to pay full price even if you don't want all the content, you choose the latter. To put it numerically, when given the choice of selecting from 20 items at 2 dollars a piece or paying one 40 dollar price even if you only want a few of the items, you choose the latter, despite it being the less logical choice.
Your contention was that you should get everything for your 15 dollars. You don't want your money and the devteam resources diverted to content that they are going to make separately and sell back to you. Well, that's what an expansion is. However, you have already told yourself it is acceptable to buy the expansion and you have grown used to it. As a result of that, you are not looking at your choices rationally. Most subscription MMO developers are very happy about that, and they'd love for you to keep thinking the way you are thinking.
As for free expansions, plenty of developers have been doing them for eight or nine years now. EVE Online, Lineage 2 and City of Heroes are examples of that.
I'd like you to list each of the issues you have with Item Malls, Cash Shops, in-game microtransactions, or whatever it's being called this week. After that, look down that list and - with an open mind - ask yourself is that applies to expansions. I'm not asking you to post it in this thread but rather for you to do it at your leisure on paper, Notepad or even just mentally. You'll be surprised at the results.
Cheers!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .
I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)
This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.
So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?
Depends.
Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?
if you are paying monthly to access the game and all its content you must have access to that leather jacket as well via in game vendors / monster loot / pvp / etc...
If companies now consider monthly fees are not profitable enough and have to open cash shops, might as well become full cash shop mmos and remove the subscription. They are just killing their own game by having both. And silly the players who support them for the sake of playing a new game.
Expansion pack = give everyone just access to new zones / classes / quests ,etc AND it has finite max price. Still provide level playing field.
Cash shop = dozens, hundreads or even thousands items and things added on on-going term. Huge majority is direct items (cosmetics ,armors, mounts, buffs ,in-game gold, etc) or even mechanics taken out of game and put into cash shop. Sometimes there is a bit of content (zones, classes ,etc) but almsot all of items and sales are made on direct item buying.
Virtually infinite amount of money can be spend in there. It promote and lives on making diffrences between players, it affects game play directly (best looking cosmetics exclusive at store, increasing in-game grind to fuel certain item sales or xp boosts sales , not to mention direct advantage sales in some games , gambling sales like lockboxes with small chance on rare item, etc) + it ruin immersion by having this huge direct connetion between game itself and real world money at all times.
That is just scratching the surface.
If you cannot see diffrence between microtransaction cash shop and one time buy expasnion pack which is usually 1 -once per year (or rarer even) - then really I have no more words.
Comments
Folks, if we end up with too many blind "settlers" (as seen in the above quote), prepare to start pulling your wallets an awful lot more if you have the intention of continuing gaming within this genre.
It was enough that we had to buy the box, pay a monthly subscription, and buy expansions to play a video game. Withholding content (of any type big or small) for the sake of charging beyond the box/sub/expansion model is completely looney tunes. Several years ago, I would have thought that no one (in the West) in their right mind would of ever even considered anything other than laughing at such a ridiculous proposition. However, I never saw this coming. So fortunately, I never made any bets.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
If the price is too high, i can always find entertainment somewhere else. It is not like MMO is the only entertainment option out there.
Once again, the developers are FREE to do with their game. If you don't like it, don't play it.
And i do not see why they should not? The shiney phony in WOW sell MILLIONS. It would be stupid for a developer NOT to do it.
Actually, the only thing you [physically] own is the game packaging/discs. The account is owned by the game company, the subscription is considered rent for the account that you're "borrowing". The game company can do whatever they like with the account at any given time without any warning whatsoever. Makes you wonder...
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
you dont HAVE To anything. if you feel compelled to spend money on items that dont affect your gameplay AT ALL, you are the one with a problem, not the genre.
better switch off your tv too, just in case you watch a teleshopping channel and go broke...
Too greedy (by my own opinion) and ultimately insulting.
I understand completely that a company wants to do their best to fully monetize their customers, and there are many people out there who are willing to spend far more than just the box price and $15/month.
But I don't make a distinction between "adding something to a cash shop" and "Withholding developed content from subscription payers". It says to me that the developer created content for the game, but paying the equivalent of a AAA game box every four months (nevermind the initial purchase price) is insufficent to make me deserving of a chance at obtaining it.
I also don't make a distinction between cosmetics and power. They're all content, and they all mean something to the game. Different people have different priorities, but to say "Cosmetics are fine, just no power" is nothing more than saying "Not in my backyard".
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
THIS.
It is a turn off for me, I want nothing to do with games using this "money grab" tactic.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
To me, YES.
The way I see it, if you are regularly paying every month / 3 months / 6 months / yearly / Lifetime Sub, then that should give you fair access to anything introduced into the game, provided you earn it. Earn it with the game's currency (no I'm not including bought credits either), questing, drops, or even just logging in (like veteran player rewards). Whatever.
When companies hold back content to sell it to you repeatedly and trying to nickle and dime you every month, despite you being a regularly paying customer, I have big issues with that.
The only thing that is suitable is buying Expansion Packs, which usually meant a *massive* series of additions to the game.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Ah, so we were very confused.
pretty basic rule set for me when it comes to mmo's.
FTP/not PTW and I will play it.
FTP/ PTW and wont touch it.
box+item shop wont touch it.
sub only and I will play it.
sub+cash shop= rot in hell before I even look at it:)
That's cognitive bias at work.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Like it or not, its the way tje industry works now. The only two MMORPGs in the last 6 or 7 years that I know of without a cash shop of some sort is swtor and ffxiv, and if I recall ffxiv gives you a tiny amount of character slots so youll have to buy more. Could be wrong on that one though, been a while.
Depends on the cash shop
Xp pots and fluff items I could care less about. I have no interested in rushing to endgame so xp pots are useless to me, and fluff items. Well I never cared about those either
Expansion Packs for PC games, which of course MMORPGs are a part of, were worth it back in the day. They really used to have to cram alot into those packs. New, large maps, more classes, more abilities for all, more gear for all, more and more of everything. Edit to add: Also, NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY ever complained, even whispered any sort of discontent in the earlier years of MMORPG gaming, about having to pay for an Expansion Pack on top of the regular subscriptions that dominated the genre then.
Now, don't confuse old school Expansion Packs with what passes as "expansions" and DLC these days. I've only seen ONE MMORPG title in all these years add massive expansions for free as part of the subscription. And that was LOTRO before the F2P move a few years ago.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
The sub is so you can fund all those talented artists while they create cash shop content that you aren't going to buy.
I have no problems paying the box price, I don't even have a problem with a sub or a cash shop. I do have a problem with being ripped off; paying for the box, a sub and a cash shop is a no go. If a game has all three the box can sit on the shelf until such time that it is free to play, I have no desire to be ripped off.
I hate cash shops and I hate esports in my mmos. But it doesnt look like that is going to change anytime soon so I just have to deal with it.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Don't say that too loud. They'll start charging you a subscription fee to use shops in real life soon. A sort of wellfare system for stores that sell things that people won't buy.
...I can actually see that happening.
Yes because its greedy to give out the points along with the sub fee so you can access the cash shop for no additional charge. in truth if you wanna argue it. they are making you spend LESS monthy if you consiter the cost for the points you are getting.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
"give out" "getting" Seriously?
First of all - you're buying them with your subscription.
Secondly - just cause they include bit of points in things you buy with your sub ,it does NOT make it better in ANY way. It still totally violate what subsription should be. Not to mention this argument totally misses point that OP made.
Still cognitive bias. You've always paid for expansion packs, so you accept that. Now, when presented with the option to pick the features you want and pay a fraction of the price for only the content you want, rather than have to pay full price even if you don't want all the content, you choose the latter. To put it numerically, when given the choice of selecting from 20 items at 2 dollars a piece or paying one 40 dollar price even if you only want a few of the items, you choose the latter, despite it being the less logical choice.
Your contention was that you should get everything for your 15 dollars. You don't want your money and the devteam resources diverted to content that they are going to make separately and sell back to you. Well, that's what an expansion is. However, you have already told yourself it is acceptable to buy the expansion and you have grown used to it. As a result of that, you are not looking at your choices rationally. Most subscription MMO developers are very happy about that, and they'd love for you to keep thinking the way you are thinking.
As for free expansions, plenty of developers have been doing them for eight or nine years now. EVE Online, Lineage 2 and City of Heroes are examples of that.
I'd like you to list each of the issues you have with Item Malls, Cash Shops, in-game microtransactions, or whatever it's being called this week. After that, look down that list and - with an open mind - ask yourself is that applies to expansions. I'm not asking you to post it in this thread but rather for you to do it at your leisure on paper, Notepad or even just mentally. You'll be surprised at the results.
Cheers!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
City of heroes has sub option and cash shop. BUT people who sub get 400 points a month these points can usually buy costume packs out right.
WoW sells mounts atm (for a high price imo) but people generally seem fine with it.
if you are paying monthly to access the game and all its content you must have access to that leather jacket as well via in game vendors / monster loot / pvp / etc...
If companies now consider monthly fees are not profitable enough and have to open cash shops, might as well become full cash shop mmos and remove the subscription. They are just killing their own game by having both. And silly the players who support them for the sake of playing a new game.
@Loktofeit
It is preety simple really.
Expansion pack = give everyone just access to new zones / classes / quests ,etc AND it has finite max price. Still provide level playing field.
Cash shop = dozens, hundreads or even thousands items and things added on on-going term. Huge majority is direct items (cosmetics ,armors, mounts, buffs ,in-game gold, etc) or even mechanics taken out of game and put into cash shop. Sometimes there is a bit of content (zones, classes ,etc) but almsot all of items and sales are made on direct item buying.
Virtually infinite amount of money can be spend in there. It promote and lives on making diffrences between players, it affects game play directly (best looking cosmetics exclusive at store, increasing in-game grind to fuel certain item sales or xp boosts sales , not to mention direct advantage sales in some games , gambling sales like lockboxes with small chance on rare item, etc) + it ruin immersion by having this huge direct connetion between game itself and real world money at all times.
That is just scratching the surface.
If you cannot see diffrence between microtransaction cash shop and one time buy expasnion pack which is usually 1 -once per year (or rarer even) - then really I have no more words.