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Video card??
DogPeeOnTree
Member Posts: 92
in Hardware
Hi guys so im currently thinking buying new pc but from all reviews iv seen on ati side people love gygabyte 6850 1gb gddr5.
I want to know what is the card with same power on nvidia side so i can compare both on youtube for power.As performance im sure those will be enough to run any single game on ultra by now.So guys what is the nvidia card with close or higther performance to this one but same (arround 6850) price range,.Thx
Comments
The card comparable to that on the green side would be a GTX460 1GB, just make sure you don't get a 768mb version as they were slightly slower. A 1gb 6850 and GTX460 will perform about the same in most games.
The main reason to choose a 460 is because they overclock better and can pull ahead quite significantly in performance from that. If you have no interest in overclocking then just get whichever is cheaper. Make sure your power supply is up to the task.
Depending what res you play at don't expect to play everything on Ultra, the rest of your PC may not be up to it and some games can strain even the top end rigs with everything maxed. That being said, both cards should max out most if you play at 1920x1080 or lower and even those it can't will still look great with a setting or two turned down. Both great cards IMO.
There isn't one. The cheapest Nvidia card you can get that is at least as fast as a Radeon HD 6850 is a GeForce GTX 560, and that's a much more expensive card. The performance of a GeForce GTX 560 is actually about the same as a Radeon HD 6870, not 6850. But the GTX 560 is also quite a bit more expensive than a 6870.
The problem is that Nvidia needs a much bigger die and much more power consumption to give the same performance, which means cards that are much more expensive to build. If they tried to compete on a price/performance basis, they wouldn't make money, so they charge what they need to in order to make money and hope that fanboys will buy it anyway due to either being clueless or having a strong brand preference.
Not sure why you would say that quizz, both the 460 and 6850 perform almost identical at stock, with the usual scenario of the odd game favouring one over the other at higher or lower resolution. Both are also priced the same, at least here in the UK. Most new 460's also usually overclock to similar performance as a 560ti.
The 460 does draw about a 3rd more power from the PSU but that's neither here nor there unless either it or his case are crap or old, or both.
I still say just get whichever is cheapest assuming the rest of his parts wouldn't be a problem.
So does a GeForce GTX 285. But, like the real GeForce GTX 460, it's long since discontinued, and doesn't make sense to try to find one new. Most of the new "GeForce GTX 460" cards in stock on New Egg now are a 192-bit, 1 GB variant that Nvidia never sent in for reviews, so we really don't know how it performs. It's probably a crippled chip variant for badly defective GF114 dies. But if Nvidia doesn't want it reviewed, then there are probably reasons for that--and it most likely isn't because it's a great card but Nvidia wants to keep that a secret. The mismatched memory channels makes me think that the last 256 MB is there for reasons of marketing, not engineering, and if the card got reviewed, it might well perform very poorly in games that really do need the full 1 GB of video memory.
You're probably talking about the supposed 'superclocked' new EVGA's (no idea if other brands did it) which appeared recently. Over here stores like overclockers.co.uk returned all the stock of those when it was made apparent they were only 192-bit variation. But, for someone who doesn't overclock the 192's are supposedly faster than the 256's, with overclocking the 256's eat it for breakfast though.
Newegg may be stocking them but i wouldn't put that off the OP buying a decent 460 elsewhere if he really really wants Nvidia at the same price as a 6850. He'd just have to make sure that he wasn't buying something listed as 256-bit which was really 192 as some stores either aren't aware or just auto listed as 256.
I gotta agree with Quiz on this one.
The 460GTX was a great card. I loved it, and recommended it as Best Bang for the Buck for a very long time.
There are two problems with it.
One is that nVidia created like 4 other products that all recycled the 460 number, and they were all very different (and usually significantly worse) products. That makes it confusing to try to find the better ones.
The other is that it's been out of production for a long time. Yes, you can still find them, but it's not easy. You can take a chance on going used, or take a chance on some lesser known smaller vendors - both of those carry risks compared to going with a large, well-established shop such as Newegg or Amazon. If your willing, and you win the gamble, you can get a pretty good card for pretty cheap. But there's a larger chance you'll get burned than going with a new card, with full warranty support, from a retailer that has a good reputation for honoring RMA's and reputable billing practices.
Right now, nVidia doesn't have any card that really compares favorably in any <$250 price point market. The 560Ti matches up relatively well with the 6950, and the prices on both of those cards are volatile enough that either one could be the better buy on any given week. Below that nVidia struggles to be competitive. The 560 (non-Ti) is not the same as it's bigger brother (much like the 4 variants of the 460). It is more or less a direct tweak of the original 460GTX that Kaabal recommends, but with a few changes to get it another 10-15% performance. It is more or less identical to a 6870 in terms of performance.
I went to look at prices, and right now, the price difference is more favorable between the 6870 and 560 (a lot of the discounts on the 6870 have expired), but the 560 still is on average $20-50 more expensive.
On the power front - AMD wins that one hands down at every price point. AMD just has a more efficient architecture across the board. nVidia's Fermi (which is what the 400 and 500 series were based on) just is a power-hungry design. It is capable of great performance, it just takes some juice to get there.
Here is a pretty good review/benchmark that compares the 560, 560Ti, 6870, and older 460GTX
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/43366-nvidia-geforce-gtx-560-1gb-review.html
Just because it may be hard to find a good 460 in the stores over there doesn't mean he shouldn't get one if at a decent price. I'm starting to sound like an Nvidia fanboy now which i'm not but i think it's just silly advice to tell someone not to get a card because some stores may or may not be selling the inferior version. You guys know the stores over there so find him some that are worthwhile getting, the pros and cons of each have been laid out.
Sorry to say, but the GTX460 still IS a great card. Have it in my system since it's release and won't remove it for a long time. Heck, even trying to get a 2nd one to make it SLI.
Gotta agree that nVidia did something bad with production though. The 460 series was way too short lived for it's performance and there indeed are 2 different kind of 'versions' of the GPU, as well as DDR5 usage (192bit vs 256bit). It's even confirmed that the 'old' and 'new' 460's are not even compatible in SLI...
On overclocking I think the 460 does wel. I've OC'd my EVGA GTX460 SC an extra 20% and kept it stable. Not sure if it was performing to the 560ti, but performance was good nonetheless. Though I gotta say, the fan did start to make a whole lot of noise at times
About availability... On the EVGA store there are still 460's for sale in different configurations. Starting at $150 or so up to around $300 (the GTX460 2Win version).
I say go for AMD more power for your bucks but im a ati fan so maybe not realy objective here,
But for price AMD is better choice and performance nvidia cost more.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
The problem is that you're conflating two very different issues. Perhaps the easiest way to explain this is to state both explicitly, so that you can see the difference.
1) Suppose that you have a GeForce GTX 460 already. Is it still a capable gaming card, or do you need to replace it?
2) Suppose that you don't already have a nice gaming card. Does it make sense to buy a new GeForce GTX 460, or would it be better to get something else?
The answer to the first question is, the GTX 460 is still a capable gaming card. There's no sense in getting rid of it just yet unless you have either an enormous budget or unusual needs, such as wanting to move to a three monitor Eyefinity setup.
The answer to the second question is, no, you shouldn't get a GTX 460 new. You can get a Radeon HD 6850 that is faster, uses less power, has a better feature set, and is cheaper. Here's the competition:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161384
With a superior Radeon HD 6850 at that price, even the best original GeForce GTX 460 doesn't make sense unless you can get it for significantly under $140 including shipping and before rebates. After rebates, you'd better get it for significantly under $130 including shipping.
If you want to talk about overclocking, then a 6850 overclocks pretty well, too. A GTX 460 was the top bin of the GF104 die. If they could also overclock so easily, then Nvidia would have set the top bin higher. Meanwhile, a Radeon HD 6850 is not the top bin of the Barts die, so it's meant to go to much higher clock speeds, and setting it to those clock speeds doesn't necessarily even run the normal risks associated with overclocking.
Furthermore, the relatively cheaper GTX 460s that you find will tend not to be the real top bin. If you find one of the lower bins that also got labeled a GTX 460, then its competitor is the Radeon HD 6790.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161377
That's $125 with free shipping before rebate, or $115 after rebate. The low bins of a GTX 460 (SE or 768 MB versions) don't make sense unless they're cheaper than that. Are they? Good luck finding them new at those prices.
So even if you can find a new GTX 460 for $150, that price makes it a non-starter even for the top bin, unless you're paying extra for a premium cooler or some such. For what it's worth, EVGA charges $160 before shipping for the original top bin.
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There are at least five different desktop versions of the GTX 460, not two. At launch, there were two versions (768 MB and 1 GB), but Nvidia later added SE, OEM, and 192-bit 1 GB versions. The reason the first four versions of the GTX 460 were short-lived is that the die itself was short-lived. The GF104 die was badly broken, as yields on it were terrible. It had 8 SMs, but even the top desktop bin had to disable one of them, because not enough chips came back from the fabs with all eight working properly. Core clock speeds were nowhere near what Nvidia intended. Memory clock speeds were awful, as the cheapest GDDR5 memory that is commercially available is rated at 1 GHz (which is why AMD uses exactly 1 GHz GDDR5 in their cheapest desktop cards that use GDDR5), but Nvidia's GDDR5 memory controller in GF104 couldn't handle 1 GHz.
While Nvidia could sell the GTX 460 cards, they probably didn't make any money on them. The performance wasn't anywhere near what it was supposed to be, so they had to charge far less for the cards than they intended in order to be competitive enough on a price/performance basis to get rid of the GPU chips they paid to build. Nvidia needed to fix the GPU chip, and that required a base layer respin, which takes 6 months or so. Rather than calling the new die a new stepping of GF104, Nvidia gave it a new code name, GF114. Rather than calling the cards based on the fixed die by the old GTX 460 name, Nvidia decided to market the fixed Fermi dies as the GeForce 500 generation, and call them the GeForce GTX 560 Ti and GeForce GTX 560. A handful get the lower bin GeForce GTX 460 192-bit 1 GB card.
Base layer respins like this are very rare in video cards. Normally, by the time you wait six months for the base layer respin, you're not far away from launching the next generation and discontinuing even the fixed version of the old generation anyway. You'd rather put your development resources into getting the new generation right than fixing the old generation. But with TSMC's 32 nm process node cancelled, no new architecture ready, and the first generation Fermi dies all badly broken, Nvidia didn't really have any other choice. The GeForce GTX 560 Ti is what Nvidia tried and failed to deliver in the GeForce GTX 460 in the first place.
Once you can build the fixed GF114 dies, there's no sense in continuing to build the old, broken GF104 dies. They're about the same size, so they cost about as much to build, but Nvidia can sell a GF114 for a lot more, because it has vastly better yields and can hit much better clock speeds. So you discontinue GF104 and sell the GTX 460 cards for whatever it takes to get rid of them, and then you sell GF114-based cards for more--as much as you can and still have them sell well.